The Red & Black Forums

The Red & Black Forums (http://forum.acmilan-online.com/index.php)
-   AC Milan History, Legends, Icons & Former Players (http://forum.acmilan-online.com/forumdisplay.php?f=35)
-   -   Milan's History Thread (http://forum.acmilan-online.com/showthread.php?t=9722)

N3d0 13-02-2008 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaizka22
believe they played the classic 4-4-2 formation. The only difference is how the WHOLE team moved by shortening the distance between defence and attack. The opponent will feel that they are trapped inside a very narrow but wide imaginary box. Attackers can be the first defenders while at the same time defenders can be the first one to launch the offense.

You said this on "ac milan 1992" thread. You are right. They were playing 4-4-2 formation, but they played "total football" which means that all players could be defenders or attackers. If I'm not mistaken Sacchi masterminded that kind of football and thats kind of football that Dutch teams used to play earlier.

gaizka22 13-02-2008 14:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by N3d0
You said this on "ac milan 1992" thread. You are right. They were playing 4-4-2 formation, but they played "total football" which means that all players could be defenders or attackers. If I'm not mistaken Sacchi masterminded that kind of football and thats kind of football that Dutch teams used to play earlier.

Won't deny what I wrote :) I won't call it a Total Football because IMO in Total Football there's no real position while in Sacchi's era they have quite a definitive position, they just do it together (I know the difference is paper thin :D ). Meaning the defenders will still be in their position but helping the attack. Same case with the attackers, they help the defense from their position. Former Napoli player Salvatore Bagni said Milan's Sacchi was so great in stealing the ball in the opposition's half and suddenly the whole team moved forward supporting the attack.

Many times during Sacchi's era there will be 8 players of the opposing team defending the box because in front of them there will be 8 Milan players inside the opponent's own half. And many times the killer pass come from Baresi instead of the usual midfielders like Donadoni or Rijkaard.

But for me each individual players in Sacchi's Milan don't have the flexibility to play like the Dutch team, simply because not all of them don't have the all around skill and physical fitness required by the Dutch Total Football system. And more importantly because Milan at that time didn't have someone as selfish, egocentric but super skillful like Johan Cruyff who can command the whole team. Gullit was essential but in terms of in-field commanding and dictating how the team should play he's probably only the 5th in the hierarchy after Baresi, Ancelotti, Tasotti and Evani. Van Basten was ready to assume that role after the successful 91/92 season. He was given that freedom by Capello and influenced how the team should play. MvBasten showed that he COULD be as great or maybe even better than Cruyff but he sadly could never really lived up to the promise.

So let's just say Sacchi's Milan is an adjusted version of the Rinus Michel's Total Football. Flair, flamboyant, fluid passing BUT with steely defense.

crazy4milan 13-02-2008 15:09

Gaizka thanks for clearing that up to me! (and now that I remember, yes that appearead on the Maldini DVD, the thing that had me more puzzled was the Alemao part which I'm pretty sure wasn't mentioned there).

MilanMarkus 13-02-2008 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaizka22
But for me each individual players in Sacchi's Milan don't have the flexibility to play like the Dutch team, simply because not all of them don't have the all around skill and physical fitness required by the Dutch Total Football system

.

Great post(s). But I have one more question left. Who could be considered the 'weakest' link of the Sacchi team?

N3d0 13-02-2008 22:53

Thanks for clearing the things up to me gaizka :) Appreciate it :)

Gattuso #8 13-02-2008 23:13

14.02.08 = The day a legend quit playing football

gaizka22 14-02-2008 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilanMarkus
.

Great post(s). But I have one more question left. Who could be considered the 'weakest' link of the Sacchi team?

Weakest link will be a cover for Donadoni, although he was very hard to replace. In modern day version, he's like Ryan Giggs, adapt with both feet and can attack from both flanks. At that time Milan had Evani to cover for him. Although Chicco Evani can really score good free kicks he didn't have the mobility and skill of Donadoni.

Another possible weak link is in the defence although with Maldini - Baresi - Costacurta - Tasotti around it's very hard to find chance to play. Milan only have Filippo Galli, the rest are just youngster.

Then in later years of Sacchi era (90/91), Gullit's injury proved that the system can only work with a powerhouse like him. Sacchi tried Rijkaard in Gullit's role (after MvBasten complained heavily and publicly) but it just not the same.

Andromeda 15-03-2008 18:44

all finals won by Milan from World Club Cup / Intercontinental Cup or whatever its called before World Club Cup..

the video started from Milan, 8th October 1969 until Yokohama, 16th December 2007.

ps: i could see Van Basten here at Tokyo, 9th December 1990 game :cool:



edit: i have a question..did we played home-away system in WCC back then ?since when the format changed? because i see Milan VS Estudiantes 3-0 at Milan on 8th October 1969 and Estudiantes VS Milan 2-1 at Buenos Aires 22th October 1969 and BANG we are the winner after the game at Buenos Aires.but other games in this video just like present time (although i know there was a bit system changed too).

gaizka22 17-03-2008 03:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andromeda
edit: i have a question..did we played home-away system in WCC back then ?since when the format changed? because i see Milan VS Estudiantes 3-0 at Milan on 8th October 1969 and Estudiantes VS Milan 2-1 at Buenos Aires 22th October 1969 and BANG we are the winner after the game at Buenos Aires.but other games in this video just like present time (although i know there was a bit system changed too).

Yes. The home-away system was criticized due to its long distance travelling. In 1972 (if not mistaken) Ajax went as far as refusing to play the match. Started in the early 80s Japan voluntereed to host a one-off match and since Tokyo is located approximately midway between Europe and South America the proposal was accepted until it was changed into a competition in 2005.

Andromeda 18-03-2008 03:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaizka22
Yes. The home-away system was criticized due to its long distance travelling. In 1972 (if not mistaken) Ajax went as far as refusing to play the match. Started in the early 80s Japan voluntereed to host a one-off match and since Tokyo is located approximately midway between Europe and South America the proposal was accepted until it was changed into a competition in 2005.

thank u Gaizka :star: :)

Besfort 23-04-2008 09:57

I'll never forget this match. This is the best match I saw in the last decade. What a game.. What a real fighters there. :proud:





Seedorf's goal was absolutely amazing... Kaka outstanding, Tomasson to the rescue.


How can you mention that match, without talking for....





:proud: :star:


We were able to beat Merda even sleepy.

dev1L 23-04-2008 10:17

great game and superb bomb from Seedorf, i love that guy Crudeli...i felt sorry for him after seeing his expression when stupid Inter scored those goals but in the end we won and he celebrated like crazy :D :proud:





crazy4milan 03-05-2008 18:00

Yesterday for the first time in my life I saw the 90 minutes of the Milan-Barcelona CL final back in 1994.

My view before ever watching it: I was under this impression we made thousands of shots, and that we had them on their own side from start to end. I never really thought of Panucci playing in the LB till recently with Roma (of course I should have thought about it, as I knew both Costacurta and Baresi were suspended, so Maldini was going to be a CD, which it also didn't cross my mind). And I also got a little confused with the numbers, watching Maldini with #6, Galli with #5, and Panucci with #3 had me confused for the first minutes. I also thought our first two goals were early in the 1st half, and the last 2 were in the middle-end of the 2nd half.

The game:
The first 20 minutes we dominated the possession and had some danger, but the most dangerous play came from a Romario chance that Maldini cleared out (amazing he still does it the same way 14 years later). After our goal, we played a very smart way. It wasn't pure offensive football, but smart football, we didn't let them have possession in our half (which considering the type of players Barcelona had was the smartest thing to do) and we obligated them to do long range passes. Eventhough I think our defense was awesome, the guy that didn't let Barcelona do anything was Marcel Dessailly with the help of Albertini, but Dessailly was just out of this world, he won us the midfield battle. Another thing that worked perfectly for us was the play on the flanks, Panucci (who was a baby at that time) was close to perfect running the left side, while Tassoti made a great game too on the right side. We were tactically perfect. And then in the last 5 minutes we started doing our thing, becoming dangerous near Zubizarreta's area. Just before HT, one of the greatest and most underrated assists in the world by Donadoni (I think this one is by far my favorite play of that match) ended in a perfectly executed goal by Massaro.

The second half started, and Barcelona wasn't even able to shake of the shock of Massaro's second nor even get settled on the ground, when Savicevic takes the ball away from Nadal (which later in the analysis it was said that it was a foul, but that it was better that the ref didn't whistle it, cause of the beauty that came from it), and then the #10 scored that amazing goal we have all seen. And Barcelona started becoming dirty, they at least made 5 red card deserving fouls, that the ref prefered to show the yellow, maybe cause he thought it could have diminish Milan's great game. Barcelona tried to but they found themselves in front of the wall that was our DM's + CD's (and the rare times they passed them, they made easy shots for Rossi to save). All of the sudden Savicevic hits the post, someone of Barcelona tries to clear it, but Desailly + Albertini take it away, Albertini passes it to Desailly all alone in front of the GK, and he made a wonderful goal. For the next 20 minutes or so, we were just toying around with them, passing the ball, here and there. Finally I saw that play in which Savicevic was going to make a corner kick but decided to give it to the Barcelona defender :D, so arrogant, but so great. I think our only sub was someone who I never heard of in my life :tongue: for Maldini who got injured. Finally the game ended.

Receiving the trophy: I was all WTF!? when I saw it. I'm more used to the see the losers get their medals first, then the winners, and lastly the captain will raise the cup. It was the complete opposite Tassoti raised the cup, passing it to the other players, and then Barcelona players got their loser prize. That's without mentioning that ever since I remember players get their medals with their team shirt + pants...no in here our players were parading around in their undies (it was just one, who seemed very drunk), and shirtless or with the Barcelona shirt.

Sidenotes: Back in 1994, the TV rarely did close ups of the players (not even after they scored!). They prefer to do close ups of the coaches (ok, it was nice to see Cruyff's arrogant ass getting kicked). It was probably also an amazing event watching so many seats for the press cause right after our first goal they showed the press for about 30 seconds or more.

It was one of Berlusconi's top 5 days ever. There were little notes passing in the RAI transmission that said he got the trust of the congress, and Capello said that both Milan and Berlusconi had one their battles that day.

Chi non salta nerazzuro è! was sang in about 3/4 of the game. It seems Inter won one of least bigger european trophies that year, and they were probably parading it like it was the best thing ever (probably telling Milan fans "europa siamo noi!" thinking we didn't stood a chance against Barcelona), poor lossers we are always on top of them. :D.

The youtube links from where I saw the game (that dude that uploaded it has a lot of classics in his channel) part 1, part 2, part 3, part 4, part 5, part 6, part 7, part 8, part 9, part 10, receiving the trophy.

EDIT: LONGEST POST EVER!

radioactivenerd 03-05-2008 19:01

^^amazing - thank you for that! the guy has an incredible number of full matches on his channel...im going to take a day off from work and jsut watch all of them now!!

gaizka22 04-05-2008 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by radioactivenerd
^^amazing - thank you for that! the guy has an incredible number of full matches on his channel...im going to take a day off from work and jsut watch all of them now!!

What are the games posted?

inomilan 04-05-2008 12:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by gaizka22
What are the games posted?

A LOT!
Too many to mention just visit the page http://youtube.com/user/kimjjj

DonippoKakaShevdini 04-05-2008 16:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy4milan
Yesterday for the first time in my life I saw the 90 minutes of the Milan-Barcelona CL final back in 1994.

That match was played on my 17th birthday, and I remember the day fondly. Prior to the match, Cruyff (Barcelona coach at the time) made the following comment: "The difference between Milan and us is that they have bought Desailly, and we have bought Romario. This will be on display for everyone tomorrow." Keep in mind, Barcelona had won 4 straight league titles, and believe it or not, Milan had not won in 6 consecutive Serie A games at this time. Milan were expected to defend and attack on the counter, while Stoichkov, Romario, and Beguiristáin would attack relentlessly. The odd thign about Cruyff's quote is that not only did Desailly contain Romario and company, but he also scored in the match. One of the more dominant displays in the European cup final according to history.

Boban1982 04-05-2008 19:45

The 1994 Final was the best i have ever seen. We completely destroyed them. Served that twit Cruyff right.

Forza Milan

vashil 05-05-2008 04:14

on the 4th of May 2008...Milan made inter watch them play.. Milan won the derby 2-1 thanks to inzaghi and kaka(the actual ballon d'or).

I at least hope that inter paid tickets in order for them to watch Milan play.

Armin__m 10-05-2008 13:57

maybe this is not the best place to post this,but here it is..

It would be another bitter blow after Flamini penned a massively improved contract with Milan this week on a free transfer.

"I know the rules in this job, the guy is free, he can go to somebody who pays him more," continued an infuriated Wenger.

"But he said he wanted to stay. If you say, 'no I want to go somewhere' that is OK. But you cannot say, 'I want to stay, but I go.'

"This club here has a history of being built by people of values. I'm not sure that in the history of Milan you'll find the same values, even if you dig well."

Milan are expected to retaliate with a statement of their own, as they do not take kindly to comments on their part in the Calciopoli scandal.

The club has always maintained its innocence in that affair, even though they were docked eight points from last year’s Serie A standings and stripped of a spot in the Champions League – albeit qualifying via a preliminary round.

a part of the article from channel4.com..

what an asshole..i hope G responds as soon as possible to this crap just like he did to juventus,and it would be nice to see all their star players leave the club (of course,not to go to inter)..


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:47.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2002-2011 The Red & Black Forums. These are fan forums and are in no way affiliated with AC Milan S.p.A.