1/16 - Germany (4) vs. England (1) - June 27th

Sod-Lod · Jun 27, 2010

Senatore_M84 said:
i dunno what capello is suppose to do to fix the lack of a CB and GK

Focusing in the lift side of Germany and put in Cole in the beginning of the second half; give a direction to the players when game is rolling + etc............

SixOneFive · Jun 27, 2010

KujaIX said:
I can't be the only one who finds it funny that a weaker nation who was a colony of England at the time tries to mock us by taking the piss out nations helping during WW1 and 2.

lol what? Weaker nation? At that time, we weren't even a nation. Surely you're not calling America a "weaker nation" as of now. WW2 is another argument you probably don't want to get into with Americans, either.

I'm not attacking you or anything; that post just caught my eye lol.

Cristina · Jun 27, 2010

crazy4milan said:
So what kind of heavy information does K16 has on you? , is it more than what you have on MM?

Nah I just lost a bet, he has nothing.. kinda like England.

And I don't really have anything on MM, he just likes making a big deal about things.

crazy4milan · Jun 27, 2010

Cristina said:
Nah I just lost a bet, he has nothing.. kinda like England. And I don't really have anything on MM, he just likes making a big deal about things.

I was liking the idea of blackmail in the forum, pity

.

manutd fan · Jun 27, 2010

OneUnited said:
Carragher would have been raped for pace.

I'm no fan of his, but he's got similar pace to Upson, but with more experience. By that I mean he knows how to constantly get away with pushing and pulling the strikers. He wouldn't of let Klose get outmuscle him and reat a chance for himself.

Carragher is a brilliant last ditch defender, even though overall he's average. Upson can not be anywhere near the first team squad.

AC_Wesley · Jun 27, 2010

Cristina said:
lulzZy at the hate on this forum! You guys need seriously need to chillax.

Tough luck for England, that goal could have really changed the game for them. Someone remind me to send the linesman a pair of binoculars for his upcoming 90th birthday. Meh whatever, still love England! \o/\o/

Netherlands, you're my only hope. (Watch them lose now. )

Sjeez woman, you're like a jinx :tongue:

Could you please support Slovakia, Brazil and whoever makes it into the Quarter Final vs Holland and whoever makes it into the Final vs Holland?

Appreciated you supporting Netherlands anyway

.

Italian Tsar · Jun 28, 2010

Guys cut it out. Take it to PMs if you wanna abuse each other. Further flaming will be deleted.

Rex · Jun 28, 2010

Back again.

Nice win for Germany out of the debatable Lampard's drive might have changed the game but overall Germany fully deserved it.

Muller's pace caught me to eye ever since his pivotal contribution for Bayern take into account. That youngster is not even awkward to play his role in great cup competition such like World Cup campaign though. Pace, game vision, accuracy drives, dribbling are being his excel for the man at 20 and is getting improve few years later...

Ozil...this man is German orchestra. Love to see these youngsters steal the show... :cool:

Wet Ones · Jun 28, 2010

GERMANY 4 (Klose 20, Podolski 32, Muller 67, Muller 70)
ENGLAND 1 (Upson 37)

Schweinsteiger released Ozil with a glorious ball over the top of a square English defence, Cole prevented him from cutting inside but he managed to shoot nonetheless, drawing a good save from James. Neuer hit a booming goalkick deep into the England half, Klose ran straight through the middle, held off Upson and poked the ball into the bottom corner as James advanced off his line. His 50th Germany goal. The German's fashioned another chance minutes later from a throw-in. Lahm passed to Muller, who played a one-two with Khedira, running onto his backheel, he drifted infield and threading a reverse pass through Terry's legs, Klose angled his run between Johnson and Terry to stay onside but James dived at his feet to kick clear. Beautiful football. England won a throw-in, Cole hurled the ball at Upson who hit a caveman longball out of defence, straight to Mertesacker, he passed to Lahm, Lahm to Khedira, Khedira into Muller, Muller drove a pass into Ozil as he spun around Ashley Cole, Klose lobbed a first time pass over Upson's head, Muller ran though, lobbed the ball over Johnson to Podolski out wide left, he took a touch before shooting between James' legs into the bottom right corner. Another marvellously crafted goal. England responded with Lampard throwing himself at a low Milner centre but Neuer blocked and Lahm cleared. The German response was swift, Klose forced a corner then a subsequent save from James. England won a corner and played it short, Milner feigned to cross before giving Gerrard a reverse pass, Gerrard crossed and Upson leapt in the air, closed his eyes and the ball dropped over Neuer. 2-1. Within a minute we witnessed what will surely go down in history/infamy as one of the most controversial non-calls of all time. England recovered the ball from kick-off, Milner passed into Defoe, as he was tackled the ball fell to Lampard who took a touch before lobbing over Neuer, Neuer dived to catch the ball from 2 yards inside the goal, no goal. 1966 and all that in reverse. Neuer immediately booted the ball downfield, Klose held it up while waiting for support which arrived quickly, Muller's cross should have been cleared by Upson but he gave the ball straight back to the Germans, Muller headed across to Ozil, he feigned to shoot, rolled the ball back to Podolski and his drive flashed wide of the right post.

Lampard slammed a free kick against the top of the crossbar. Muller had a shot blocked and Friedrich stole the ball off Defoe's feet as he ran through onto a Rooney pass. Schweinsteiger bounced a shot wide of the left post. Rooney dived to win a free kick, Lampard's shot was charged down, Barry was tackled by Lahm as he tried to force his way into the box and Boateng released Muller in space down the left, Muller switched
play with a pass out wide to Schweinsteiger, Ozil charged forward in support distracting Johnson, Schweinsteiger ran infield, Schweinsteiger rolled the ball to Muller and from angle wide right on goal he blasted the ball into the bottom corner, James parrying it into the net as he dived in the opposite direction. Another counter attack, another German
goal. Joe Cole's lazy centre was intercepted by Klose who released Ozil with a magnificent first time crossfield pass, Ozil left Barry for dead, cut in from the left, poked the ball between Ashley Cole's legs and Muller smashed in his second and Germany's fourth. Chasing three goals Capello brought on Heskey for Defoe while his opposite number substituted Klose and man of the match Muller. The director cut to a shot of two England fans dressed as RAF Pilots. It's not about the war you stupid bastards. Neuer denied Gerrard with an excellent save following good link-up play between Lampard, Barry and Rooney. England's worst ever defeat at a World Cup finals tournament.

The debate over the use of VT will run and run and the UK are the victims of their stupidity. The IFAB, the rule makers, which originally consisted of representatives of the UK Football Associations i.e. England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland allowed FIFA on board and now FIFA hold as many votes as the four UK associations. It was the Welsh and Northern Irish FAs that voted against the use of technology at an IFAB meeting earlier in the year.

The goal that wasn't a goal will be used to excuse England's performance but they were a distance second best. As Alan Hansen said :

"I went to the game against Algeria and I thought they (England) were abysmal. Today they were four levels below that ".

Germany could have scored eight. A succession of England coaches have failed, Capello the most high profile of them all. He made many mistakes of course and he was undermined by Terry and dressing room mutiny. The lack of imagination shown by English players is galling. Getting the ball wide and sending crosses into the box is an archaic tactic and that's how most England teams play. Where are the one-twos and triangles? Where is the patient passing which drags players out of position, where is the intelligent movement? Long-term, short-term, England are doomed because, as I have said time and time again, the football played in the EPL is not conducive to success at international level. It's too fast, too furious, lacking in intelligence, like the players themselves.

Thomas Muller is the best young midfielder in the World, a player of extraordinary intelligence. Levels far above Ballack whose absence has liberated this team.

Attendance : 40,510
Assists : Neuer, Muller, Gerrard, Ozil, Schweinsteiger

GO DEUTSCHLAND! :proud:

Senatore_M84 · Jun 28, 2010

The lack of imagination shown by English players is galling. Getting the ball wide and sending crosses into the box is an archaic tactic and that's how most England teams play. Where are the one-twos and triangles? Where is the patient passing which drags players out of position, where is the intelligent movement?

funny cause englands first wc goal could be defined as these criticisms. But then what happened to them?

What that guy wrote abut EPL style not conducive to international is true, but i still wonder how much is capellos fault. I just can't see him making dumb of mistakes. it seemed to me he tried to counteract it playing 4 CMs and still

necromancer · Jun 28, 2010

Senatore_M84 said:
funny cause englands first wc goal could be defined as these criticisms. But then what happened to them?

What that guy wrote abut EPL style not conducive to international is true, but i still wonder how much is capellos fault. I just can't see him making dumb of mistakes. it seemed to me he tried to counteract it playing 4 CMs and still

Capello is not God. Dont think anyone could have done any better with the English style and the available players.

It takes a close to impossible effort to change the way players see football back in their league. So forget the triangles and the nifty passing - should have just tried to do what they can, as good as they can. Still, I don't think any coach could have saved England against Germany.

Sheva0172 · Jun 28, 2010

Capello needs to learn English. This is shamefull. How can he communicate with his players? Nobody can understand him.

GreatKalu · Jun 28, 2010

Kalac#16 said:
I still feel this one is appropriate

Funny

What do you think the chances are for him the next NT coach in the future? Interested to hear your opinion regarding whether you think its relevant if England have an English coach or not ...

Italian Tsar said:
Golden Generation? More like the Lost Boys at the Carnival. England were clueless against Germany's pace and movement. It's a bit hard to believe that it's a Capello team. I don't remember too many of his squads getting right royally done over.

But the second goal must've stood. England were just starting to show some fight and after Upson's goal had both the belief and the momentum, but were desperately unlucky with the Lampard decision. Considering England were bossing the play then, it might just have given them belief and changed the course of the match. But great sides bounce back from such unexpected setbacks. England are too fragile.

Not saying that at 2-2 it wouldn't have been a completely different game, but England were still in it at 2-1. I also think they had the upper hand for the first 10-15 minutes of the second half ... but even in that period, they didn't threaten Germany's goal the way I thought they would have. Sure, Lampard hit the post, but other than that, Germany's goal keeper didn't have much to do.

And the manner in which they gave up the third and fourth goals reflected the difference between the two sides. The Germans were disciplined tactically, keeping their shape even when attacking in numbers. With so much time left in a game at 2-1, where you still have every possibility to tie, England pressed the self-destruct button with what can only be described as amateur errors. No discipline at all.

But worst of all, I actually miss the traditional English game. Call it 'agricultural', it can be damn effective if implemented correctly ... heck, MERDA were destroyers, and look what they did in Europe last term. From ever since I started watching football, I always remembered England giving their all and something more. Fighting till the end, not giving up at any point, any circumstance. This English side (generation-wise) doesn't have this mentality ...

I mean, I see Rooney winning balls for United in their own penalty box, starting a counter attack, which he works so hard to finish. But for England, he can barely put 10 good touches of the ball ... and his body language wasn't at all positive. I've singled out Rooney, because based on ability, he's easily England's best player ... but the same can be said of others as well.

I lost count of how many balls were lost by Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Barry ... heck even Upson ... trying difficult passes that even Pirlo struggles to hit. That too, when there's a simpler/easier option 10 meters away from them. It didn't help matters that the frontline was static as hell, but some of the passes were ludicrous to say the least. Why do I think England failed to put more than 5 consecutive passes together? Because someone would try one long/extremely difficult pass, which even if it found its target, required the receiving players to take time to control/bring it down, hence losing whatever advantage such a long + difficult pass would create to begin with. I actually think keeping it simple - agricultural - would have worked better to England's benefit ... especially with the physical + quick players they have ...

I say forget the "modern game" and "the way it should be played" BS. Some countries have the talent to pass the ball from goal to goal requiring only a tap in. England, from the evidence of this WC, does not. So why not play the game the way you know it + get the results ... because at the end of the day, the result matter more than anything ...

Hate to say it, but discipline, motivation, fight, etc. are the coach's responsibility. Obviously Capello will point to the disallowed goal, but overall I think he came very short in making this English side what it could be. I don't buy the talk that England doesn't have good players. We see them excel in their respective clubs at the highest levels, so whats different here? Simply put, they didn't play as a team. They didn't have character and an identity, hence ended up looking like the mess they were. I think that's a coach's responsibility ...

Charbel · Jun 28, 2010

I'm not claiming to be the master of English football, but why didn't Capello try Joe Hart? From what I've seen of that guy, he's pretty consistent - which is an upgrade to David James and Green.

On another note, I don't get why FIFA is all stubborn about the Video Refereeing thing. It might have resulted in a different outcome to this match. ..and if they see Technology as a "bad" thing...then at least put a referee behind each goal.

A Wild Homosexual · Jun 28, 2010

What happened to England was bad actually but I really think that this incident did as much damage if not more for Germany.
Germany would have won regardless coz this English team is a joke & now their win is stained with the disallowed goal + what could have been if ....
And I really dont know how ppl dont wanna blame Capello.
I mean his trademark is making his team defensively stronger & in this he failed big time.
His team , it is he team , was so easy to penetrate & that got nothing to do with individuals coz I saw far worse players forming a much stronger defense than England with a different coach & with Cappelo himself.
Germany deserve to qualify & they did so good for them.

manutd fan · Jun 28, 2010

England aren't doomed at all. We have some brilliant yong players. Rodwell, Wilshere (very creative), Adam Johnson. In defence you have Cahill and Shawcross. Joe Hart will be keeper for years. Glen Johnson will be at his peak in 4 years and will improve his defending (which he has already done).

4 years time:

--------------Hart------------

Johnson--Cahill---Shawcross---Cole

-----Milner--Rodwell--Wilshere-----

Lennon-----------------------Johnson
-------------Rooney--------------

Players players like Delph, Delfounso, Welbeck, Richards, Cleverly, Gibbs, Huddlestone ect.

This is actually a great chance now. As much as anything else, we're poor because we've gone stale. We need freshness and I think the likes of Terry, Rio, Lampard, James, SWP and Heskey should be kept off the team.

Wild said:
What happened to England was bad actually but I really think that this incident did as much damage if not more for Germany.
Germany would have won regardless coz this English team is a joke & now their win is stained with the disallowed goal + what could have been if ....
And I really dont know how ppl dont wanna blame Capello.
I mean his trademark is making his team defensively stronger & in this he failed big time.
His team , it is he team , was so easy to penetrate & that got nothing to do with individuals coz I saw far worse players forming a much stronger defense than England with a different coach & with Cappelo himself.
Germany deserve to qualify & they did so good for them.

Nah not at all. This Germany is excellent on the counter, so the fact that we needed a goal just to draw level meant we left our already average defence (due to injuries) exposed.

Germany would still probably have won, but it definately would have been a completely different game. The momentum would have been huge.

Sheva0172 · Jun 28, 2010

The FIFA are making fools of themselfs. They left the Lampard goal out of the summary on the website...

Kalac#16 · Jun 28, 2010

madtherchot said:
Funny

What do you think the chances are for him the next NT coach in the future? Interested to hear your opinion regarding whether you think its relevant if England have an English coach or not ...

Relevant? I think so, but only because we basically bought Capello, practically EPL'ing the international game, making money a factor that it shouldn't be. That said, our choice of English managers is laughable. IF Capello was to resign (and it's looking very unlikely) then I'd want Roy Hodgson, but after him and Redknapp the level of English managers isn't up to standard.

@Utd fan, Huddlestone will be in the England team a lot more in the future, he's easily the best passer we have, as Calum would tell you, his range of passing is quite unbelievable.

Ashley Cole would retire for the next WC, whilst I think Shawcross is better than Cahill, so is Davies if he can stay injury free.

This might mean more of Agbonlahor in the international team, not sure how I feel about that, at least his pace and power would be something to fear.

Ghisolfa · Jun 28, 2010

Kalac#16 said:
This might mean more of Agbonlahor in the international team, not sure how I feel about that, at least his pace and power would be something to fear.

I think a player like Agbonlahor would translate very well on the international level. Would have given USA, Algeira, and Slovenia fits

Susan · Jun 28, 2010

That with the one goal not given for England is a shame, these refs nowadays are only getting worse :head:

It's unbelieveable that neither the ref. nor the assistant ref. has seen that this ball was clear behind the line.
Maybe that goal would've changed the outcome of this match, we will never know. For sure Germany played better and had many chances, so still I would say it was a deserved win, even though they cancelled one of England's goals. Germany with their young guys are a really good team and they had a great match yesterday, England just wasn't good enough.

manutd fan · Jun 28, 2010

Kalac#16 said:
Relevant? I think so, but only because we basically bought Capello, practically EPL'ing the international game, making money a factor that it shouldn't be. That said, our choice of English managers is laughable. IF Capello was to resign (and it's looking very unlikely) then I'd want Roy Hodgson, but after him and Redknapp the level of English managers isn't up to standard.

Agreed. Not sure what we can do about it either as it's got as much to do with the fact that clubs aren't willing to give managers a chance than it is the actual quality.

@Utd fan, Huddlestone will be in the England team a lot more in the future, he's easily the best passer we have, as Calum would tell you, his range of passing is quite unbelievable.

Yeah I agree. I was just pushing the younger players.

Ashley Cole would retire for the next WC, whilst I think Shawcross is better than Cahill, so is Davies if he can stay injury free.

Not sure about Cole tbh. He's 30 now, and it's not that unrealistic to think a 34 year old can play full back. He just wouldn't be as attacking as he is now. Doesn't matter that much though as Keiran Gibbs has a lot of potential.

Must admit I don't watch many Bolton matches, so my opinion on Cahill is based on what others say. Shawcross is the perfect replacement for Terry. Very similar players.

This might mean more of Agbonlahor in the international team, not sure how I feel about that, at least his pace and power would be something to fear.

Yeah, or Walcott. I'm hoping in 4 years time he becomes a good player. Adam Johnson is a cert for a starting place though.

Calum1903 · Jun 28, 2010

Kalac#16 said:
@Utd fan, Huddlestone will be in the England team a lot more in the future, he's easily the best passer we have, as Calum would tell you, his range of passing is quite unbelievable.

<3 Huddlestone.

You desperately need a ball-playing midfielder. A proper one, not a fraud like Carrick or Barry.

manutd fan · Jun 28, 2010

Calum1903 said:
<3 Huddlestone.

You desperately need a ball-playing midfielder. A proper one, not a fraud like Carrick or Barry.

We could do with some of this:

Though I don't think anyone really considers Barry a ball playing midfielder. Actually I'm not sure what he is. Jack of all trades type midfielder I guess.

Kalac#16 · Jun 28, 2010

manutd fan said:
We could do with some of this:

Though I don't think anyone really considers Barry a ball playing midfielder. Actually I'm not sure what he is. Jack of all trades type midfielder I guess.

Jesus, I wonder if you can manage 3 posts without linking it back to Utd? :tongue:

Calum1903 · Jun 28, 2010

manutd fan said:
Though I don't think anyone really considers Barry a ball playing midfielder. Actually I'm not sure what he is. Jack of all trades type midfielder I guess.

OK, I'll rephrase. Instead of Carrick or Barry, you need either a proper ball-player or a proper DM. Neither of those two is anything in particular.

Senatore_M84 · Jun 28, 2010

Calum1903 said:
OK, I'll rephrase. Instead of Carrick or Barry, you need either a proper ball-player or a proper DM. Neither of those two is anything in particular.

So now versatile jack of all trade players are bad? I mean carrick and Barry are no Maurice Edu, but they are good midfielders.

manutd fan · Jun 28, 2010

Kalac#16 said:
Jesus, I wonder if you can manage 3 posts without linking it back to Utd?

Well not neccesarily United, more Paul Scholes

I actually think subconciously my fanboy-ism has learnt from your James Milner fanboy-ism

manutd fan · Jun 28, 2010

Senatore_M84 said:
So now versatile jack of all trade players are bad? I mean carrick and Barry are no Maurice Edu, but they are good midfielders.

He's a good player but nothing more, which isn't what England need. If you're gonna play 4-4-2 at the highest level you're gonna need two top CM's.

Barry would be fine if he was partnered with a Scholes/Fabregas/Xavi type player and Gerrard. He's not the type that you can give a main responsibility.

edit: Carrick is fine when you're playing well as a team, but he doesn't jave the balls to impose himself on a match.

Senatore_M84 · Jun 28, 2010

manutd fan said:
He's a good player but nothing more, which isn't what England need. If you're gonna play 4-4-2 at the highest level you're gonna need two top CM's.

Barry would be fine if he was partnered with a Scholes/Fabregas/Xavi type player and Gerrard. He's not the type that you can give a main responsibility.

edit: Carrick is fine when you're playing well as a team, but he doesn't jave the balls to impose himself on a match.

4-4-2 with 2 flying wingers will NOT work in football outside EPL. 2 CMs just doesn't work. you get overwhelmed with possession.

I always got feeling capello went for the 3/4 CM midfield to try and IMPOSE more possession for that reason, and still didn't work. Sadly the 4 he choose would have lent perfectly for the ancelotti diamond

gerrard
lampard----milner
barry

Anyway you can quib about midfield or attack but IMO..... All englands problems r tied to backline. You could see from moment Rio Ferdinand went down they looked worse and worse. If tourney was in 2009, they might have been serious contenders...

Ill also blame the terry fiasco. It's sad but true, england really never looked confident. Weird cause i thought they'd pull it together but while other national teams rally together with england there was a big 'i don't give a shit' attitude. Am i only one who saw that? Just didn't see passion you see with say.... south american sides

Kalac#16 · Jun 28, 2010

Take it from somebody who watched a lot of Barry, he's useless in a 4-4-2

1/16 - Germany (4) vs. England (1) - June 27th

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