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Who should lead Milan's attack in 17/18 ?


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necromancer

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Let's try that against AEK first and see how it goes. On paper it looks a little unbalanced.

I'm more worried about the issues in the defense.
 

brk

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We also give up goals left and right in this formation. It would only get worse with Suso right in the center of the midfield who is probably a cone defensively. Plus Montella went so attack minded because they were down....and still gave up 2 more goals.

The goals we conceded all season were mostly from appalling individual mistakes. I don't think you can say that it was tactical errors. Mistakes will go away when players get used to the league and each other. Besides the tactical issue that I mentioned of having 3 CB's marking a lone striker, I don't think we've been that bad defensively as a unit.
 

brk

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Let's try that against AEK first and see how it goes. On paper it looks a little unbalanced.

I'm more worried about the issues in the defense.

It's the same as what we had before, with Hakan/Biglia/Kessie. The difference is that Borini overlapping Suso is a much more threatening move than him doing it with Kessie. We're basically replacing Hakan with Suso moving Kessie over.

Did you have an issue with balance when Suso was benched by Hakan?
 

ibelongtomilan

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I'm feeling optimistic about Milan. Losing 4 in 8 sucks but at some point we'll figure out a way to get the best out of our players.



I still feel something like this, which is a sort of 3421 but where everyone on the right side is slightly ahead of their counterpart on the left. When in attack it becomes more exaggerated as a 424.

We will eventually see the light and have a team that works this way during the game phases. It's inevitable, especially against teams that play three up front.

I don't think there's a major problem in the squad besides the obvious issues with a lack of options in winger and a vice-Kessie.

Squad just needs time to click.

after all this shit and you still have suso as a SS :lol::lol:
 

Colossus

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This is what we did in the second half. I love it, but is very attack-minded. Montella did say after the game that Suso as mezzalla wasn't a gamble and that they were working on it for weeks, so maybe this is going to be what we move forward with for now. 343 does have the same problem as 433, which is that there are no backups for the wingers.

I think you're right about this, 352 with Suso as RCM might work very well if we can get Kessie to help balance out the midfield. Having Suso play diagonals to RR from midfield is a lot more potent than whatever Kessie's been doing on the ball in possession.

Suso can still cut in and shoot/cross, and have two targets up front...

Let's go!

Yea it is very attack minded for sure, and Suso is a problem defensively. But a slight change of shape in game to a 442 with the same players and it would not seem that way......





We also give up goals left and right in this formation. It would only get worse with Suso right in the center of the midfield who is probably a cone defensively. Plus Montella went so attack minded because they were down....and still gave up 2 more goals.

The second goal was down to an individual error and getting caught in transition and the third goal was another individual error.

Those were less worrying than the chance that Vecino had as that demonstrated what trying to play Jack and Suso in midfield does to expose a defence.
 

ibelongtomilan

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This is what we did in the second half. I love it, but is very attack-minded. Montella did say after the game that Suso as mezzalla wasn't a gamble and that they were working on it for weeks, so maybe this is going to be what we move forward with for now. 343 does have the same problem as 433, which is that there are no backups for the wingers.

I think you're right about this, 352 with Suso as RCM might work very well if we can get Kessie to help balance out the midfield. Having Suso play diagonals to RR from midfield is a lot more potent than whatever Kessie's been doing on the ball in possession.

Suso can still cut in and shoot/cross, and have two targets up front...

Let's go!

no
we had jack instead of kessie and both jack and suso are trash in defending so we really got expose,we need kessie to have some strength in midfield
we went all-in in second half btw
 

ibelongtomilan

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and suso on the right seems totally unbalance because borini is the type of full attacking wing back, our right side will be very weak in defending
 

Australiano1980

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4-2-3-1-formation-tactics.png


4-3-3-formation-tactics.png
is better than 352.

I think we all agree in sub Bonucci for Musacchio at this point.

But the managment worked so poorly aside the football manager game, that they can bench Bonucci now.

#buybacksilvio
 

Hugh Janus

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Who would of imaged Romangoli to be average In almost every game? Who would of imagined hakan to have little to 0 impact every game?

Preety much everyone who watched bundesliga and everyone who's not a Romastori fanboy.
 

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Montella showed some nice tactical awareness last game, made some key changes that made us perform better



However, this shit should be a norm. The fact that he made those changes actually surprised me, and it's a little too late now to just be waiting around for things to click. We're too far off our goal


I was shocked when he subbed kessie off for cutrone, and even more shocked by how we dominated. We might have actually won the match if not for two huge individual errors.

Making a sub that early is what we wanted him to do against lazio and sampdoria

It was good to see that he isn’t completely clueless.
 

leaf

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The only formulation that can work, the rest suggest formulation is crap, 442 is the way to go.

Not really....None of us know shit to be honest. And I think I was the first to suggest the 4-4-2 after the inter game so I don't disagree with you.

All of these formations amount to a couple of yards here or there on the pitch....Most of the time the same basic roles and responsibilities of each player remain largely the same.

Ancelotti was able to fit three...sometimes four players that were essentially #10 trequartistas in the midfield for fuck's sake.

What matters are these roles of each player. I feel like the team is somehow less than the sum of its individual talents which means that we're underperforming. The fact that so many otherwise talented players look like such shit (Bonucci esp) means that Montella isn't playing to their strengths......TRUE the squad is built poorly but then I'll refer back to the Carlo example.

Hate to use this word but the philosophy is lacking at this point. All the shit I talk about Pep....you can't deny that he imposes this on his teams. Montella needs to instill something.....enough of guys not knowing what to do in certain situations, and running into others in other situations.
 

Master Smurf

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Not really....None of us know shit to be honest. And I think I was the first to suggest the 4-4-2 after the inter game so I don't disagree with you.

All of these formations amount to a couple of yards here or there on the pitch....Most of the time the same basic roles and responsibilities of each player remain largely the same.

Ancelotti was able to fit three...sometimes four players that were essentially #10 trequartistas in the midfield for fuck's sake.

What matters are these roles of each player. I feel like the team is somehow less than the sum of its individual talents which means that we're underperforming. The fact that so many otherwise talented players look like such shit (Bonucci esp) means that Montella isn't playing to their strengths......TRUE the squad is built poorly but then I'll refer back to the Carlo example.

Hate to use this word but the philosophy is lacking at this point. All the shit I talk about Pep....you can't deny that he imposes this on his teams. Montella needs to instill something.....enough of guys not knowing what to do in certain situations, and running into others in other situations.

Gattuso made many things possible. A one man all out press.

I agree though - Milan has relied so long on the give it to X and if not just knock it around until you can give it to X.
 

rossonero1

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The give it time to gel excuse I think is running thin or already has. Didn't they get all their transfer business done in July? We are sitting 2 weeks out of November and Montella is still trying to figure things out. Give someone else these players at their disposal and let's see if anything changes. Nothing less than 3 points against Genoa on Sunday should be the final straw.
 
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ChinaMilan

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Not really....None of us know shit to be honest. And I think I was the first to suggest the 4-4-2 after the inter game so I don't disagree with you.

All of these formations amount to a couple of yards here or there on the pitch....Most of the time the same basic roles and responsibilities of each player remain largely the same.

Ancelotti was able to fit three...sometimes four players that were essentially #10 trequartistas in the midfield for fuck's sake.

What matters are these roles of each player. I feel like the team is somehow less than the sum of its individual talents which means that we're underperforming. The fact that so many otherwise talented players look like such shit (Bonucci esp) means that Montella isn't playing to their strengths......TRUE the squad is built poorly but then I'll refer back to the Carlo example.

Hate to use this word but the philosophy is lacking at this point. All the shit I talk about Pep....you can't deny that he imposes this on his teams. Montella needs to instill something.....enough of guys not knowing what to do in certain situations, and running into others in other situations.

ofcourse no one knows anything for sure , however this is the only formulation that would use our best current players with their favorite positions, like bona and suso can play on the flanks and cover part of the midfield, we can use 2 strikers where we have good players , have bilgia and kessie in the midfield and stop the 3 man defense which is not working, at least this what almost worked against inter(if we forget the individual errors)
 

rossonero1

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ofcourse no one knows anything for sure , however this is the only formulation that would use our best current players with their favorite positions, like bona and suso can play on the flanks and cover part of the midfield, we can use 2 strikers where we have good players , have bilgia and kessie in the midfield and stop the 3 man defense which is not working, at least this what almost worked against inter(if we forget the individual errors)

4-4-2 or 4-3-3. Just play Bonaventura and Suso out wide where they are best and just hope they don't get hurt and we can get to January where you could bring in a reinforcement or two. We will continue to struggle in a 3-5-2.

Inter were as bad as us at this point last season and they made the coaching change to Pioli and were even fighting it out for 3rd place at the beginning of the spring. The wheels eventually came off, but they were still able to make their season relevant again. Montella shouldn't be given any more time. If Fassone and Mirabelli continue to stick with Montella and the results still aren't coming then they should just get as much of the blame as well. Time should not be on his side.
 
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Berlusconi

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I was shocked when he subbed kessie off for cutrone, and even more shocked by how we dominated. We might have actually won the match if not for two huge individual errors.

Making a sub that early is what we wanted him to do against lazio and sampdoria

It was good to see that he isn’t completely clueless.

Agreed, just too little too late in my opinion. things like this should've been happening last year.

We're literally worse this year thus far than we were last year with a much more inferior squad. To top it all off, we seem to have the same issues we had last season, (Creating chances, meaningful possession, staying concentrated all game etc.)

The fact that we still have the same exact issues as last year is sort of alarming.
 

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Not really....None of us know shit to be honest. And I think I was the first to suggest the 4-4-2 after the inter game so I don't disagree with you.

All of these formations amount to a couple of yards here or there on the pitch....Most of the time the same basic roles and responsibilities of each player remain largely the same.

Ancelotti was able to fit three...sometimes four players that were essentially #10 trequartistas in the midfield for fuck's sake.

What matters are these roles of each player. I feel like the team is somehow less than the sum of its individual talents which means that we're underperforming. The fact that so many otherwise talented players look like such shit (Bonucci esp) means that Montella isn't playing to their strengths......TRUE the squad is built poorly but then I'll refer back to the Carate to use this word but the philosophy is lacking at this point. All the shit I talk about Pep....you can't deny that he imposes this on his teams. Montella needs to instill something.....enough of guys not knowing what to do in certain situations, and running into others in other situations[/B].

I think you totally nailed the problem we have. The one consistent pattern I've noticed over the last few games is that almost every player on a pitch will, at least once in the game, show clear signs that he has no idea what to do. All of the players. I think this is down to a lack of philosophy as opposed to the way Pep and Sarri have their teams playing.

Montella was attractive during his Fiorentina days because you could see that his team had an attractive philosophy about their game. Now he's different.

He started the season trying to incorporate the players at his disposal into a system that he's been using for a while with us, and one that he likes. (This is where the management critics come in and say that the team wasn't built for it -- I don't disagree entirely, just think that they did the best they could).
It worked during preseason but then we got to the serious games against better teams and it became clear that it won't work with our players, so he went with a new system and the team is now basically going through the experimentations that a team usually goes through during preseason (this is where the Montella critics come in and say that he should've at least had the vision to do this experimentations earlier).

Montella is coaching a team that's starting a new cycle with a new management and 11 new players. There isn't a user's manual for something like this. He's human and he's made mistakes. I wish he didn't and I think some of them could have be avoidable, but keeping him on the bench will be better than going back to the drawing board with a new coach. I can't handle more preseason-like experiences during the season:cry:.
We showed some moments of class during the derby, although incomplete and lacking in several way. I don't know, maybe with a little bit of luck and time Montella would get that philosophy that we want.
 

Forza AC Milan

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I've accepted that top 4 is probably not going to happen especially how the rest of the competition have gotten so much better compared to season's past. Only shot we have is if we have some miraculous turn around like we did the last time we finished in a champions league spot under Allegri and beat out Fiorentina on the last match day. Problem is we suck in away matches no matter who we play, top of the table, midtable, bottom of the table, who cares, we struggle. Fortunately we have the Europa League. Maybe with a little luck on our side and hopefully no tough teams from the UCL drop down, we could get in like Man Utd did. Maybe try to make a run at the Coppa Italia and try to win a trophy.

3-5-2 is not working out no matter how much time we give it. Plus we need to play with 2 forwards up top and not Suso as a SS. He looks awful up top. Maybe a 4-4-2 is the way to go. Romagnoli hasn't taken the steps forward I would hope he would and I have no clue why they insist on playing out at from the back. Donnarumma is atrocious with the ball at his feet.

Silva/Kalinic-Cutrone
Jack-Biglia-Kessie-Suso
RR-Bonucci-Musacchio-Abate


Hakan and Borini could always spell Jack and Suso out wide.

Totally agree with this. Time to try 4-4-2
 

Kojak

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I think you totally nailed the problem we have. The one consistent pattern I've noticed over the last few games is that almost every player on a pitch will, at least once in the game, show clear signs that he has no idea what to do. All of the players. I think this is down to a lack of philosophy as opposed to the way Pep and Sarri have their teams playing.

Montella was attractive during his Fiorentina days because you could see that his team had an attractive philosophy about their game. Now he's different.

He started the season trying to incorporate the players at his disposal into a system that he's been using for a while with us, and one that he likes. (This is where the management critics come in and say that the team wasn't built for it -- I don't disagree entirely, just think that they did the best they could).
It worked during preseason but then we got to the serious games against better teams and it became clear that it won't work with our players, so he went with a new system and the team is now basically going through the experimentations that a team usually goes through during preseason (this is where the Montella critics come in and say that he should've at least had the vision to do this experimentations earlier).

Montella is coaching a team that's starting a new cycle with a new management and 11 new players. There isn't a user's manual for something like this. He's human and he's made mistakes. I wish he didn't and I think some of them could have be avoidable, but keeping him on the bench will be better than going back to the drawing board with a new coach. I can't handle more preseason-like experiences during the season:cry:.
We showed some moments of class during the derby, although incomplete and lacking in several way. I don't know, maybe with a little bit of luck and time Montella would get that philosophy that we want.

Montella faced the same situation during his first season at Fiorentina (10 new players) and still finished 4th. Also, Mancini had 9 new starters in his second stint at Inter but also finished 4th. Same goes for Gasperini at Atalanta last year.
 

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The give it time to gel excuse I think is running thin or already has. Didn't they get all their transfer business done in July? We are sitting 2 weeks out of November and Montella is still trying to figure things out. Give someone else these players at their disposal and let's see if anything changes. Nothing less than 3 points against Genoa on Sunday should be the final straw.

I genuinely feel sorry for F+M. In theory, most of their decisions made perfect sense. We finished 6th last season with a mediocre squad so give the same coach a 230m squad and we should easily finish 2 places higher. Also, sign the bulk of the squad in summer so the coach has enough time to make his new team gel.

Despite all this, Montella's proven to be a limited coach so now they need to pull the trigger. I personally believe top 4's already gone but if they delay firing him any longer it will definitely be gone.

1bn takeover
230m transfers
4 out of 8 league games lost
100% loss record against direct rivals (Inter, Roma + Lazio)
Pathetic
 

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Montella faced the same situation during his first season at Fiorentina (10 new players) and still finished 4th. Also, Mancini had 9 new starters in his second stint at Inter but also finished 4th. Same goes for Gasperini at Atalanta last year.

.are you seriously telling me this is the same shit????
 

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I genuinely feel sorry for F+M. In theory, most of their decisions made perfect sense. We finished 6th last season with a mediocre squad so give the same coach a 230m squad and we should easily finish 2 places higher. Also, sign the bulk of the squad in summer so the coach has enough time to make his new team gel.

Despite all this, Montella's proven to be a limited coach so now they need to pull the trigger. I personally believe top 4's already gone but if they delay firing him any longer it will definitely be gone.

1bn takeover
230m transfers
4 out of 8 league games lost
100% loss record against direct rivals (Inter, Roma + Lazio)
Pathetic

Ok, let's fire him, appointment you as coach and then have fassone and mirabelli camp in front of Conte's house and spend every day of the next 7-8 trying to beg him to come join us next summer
 

Kojak

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.are you seriously telling me this is the same shit????

No just kidding :fp:

Of course its the same shit. We spent 230m on 11 new players. Montella and the other coaches I mentioned had 10 new players and still got a top 4 finish.
 

leaf

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We have two choices to turn the team around:
1) Complete the squad...i.e. we need a proper LW, and Aubameyang (honestly Aubameyang or Belotti should have been our priority....I feel like Montella feels almost obliged to play him
2)New coach

Option #2 doesn't guarantee that the new coach wouldn't ask for the players at #1 so if management is stubborn with sticking to Bontella, then we need the LW and cf.

In which case, we'd be set for a genuine 442...

------Silva----ST-------
LW--Biglia---Kessie--Suso
RR---Musa---Roma---Borinho/Conti (possibly even Zapata?)

only that the fullbacks would be helping out more in the defense and eventually we can fly again when Conti comes back.
 

Kojak

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Ok, let's fire him, appointment you as coach and then have fassone and mirabelli camp in front of Conte's house and spend every day of the next 7-8 trying to beg him to come join us next summer

Great idea. Make it happen Bruce :thumbsup:
 

forward

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I genuinely feel sorry for F+M. In theory, most of their decisions made perfect sense. We finished 6th last season with a mediocre squad so give the same coach a 230m squad and we should easily finish 2 places higher. Also, sign the bulk of the squad in summer so the coach has enough time to make his new team gel.

Despite all this, Montella's proven to be a limited coach so now they need to pull the trigger. I personally believe top 4's already gone but if they delay firing him any longer it will definitely be gone.

1bn takeover
230m transfers
4 out of 8 league games lost
100% loss record against direct rivals (Inter, Roma + Lazio)
Pathetic
The real problem is that other teams didn't wait for us to take their CL spot and improved significantly.

Napoli are undefeated.
Inter drew once.
Lazio, Juve, Roma lost only once.

All of these teams are doing much better than last season after 8 weeks. Except for Juve maybe.

Last season this Milan would finish top 4 but this season will have to fight for it.
 

rossonero1

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I genuinely feel sorry for F+M. In theory, most of their decisions made perfect sense. We finished 6th last season with a mediocre squad so give the same coach a 230m squad and we should easily finish 2 places higher. Also, sign the bulk of the squad in summer so the coach has enough time to make his new team gel.

Despite all this, Montella's proven to be a limited coach so now they need to pull the trigger. I personally believe top 4's already gone but if they delay firing him any longer it will definitely be gone.

1bn takeover
230m transfers
4 out of 8 league games lost
100% loss record against direct rivals (Inter, Roma + Lazio)
Pathetic

It's still early and this could be be turned around, but the longer they wait then there will be no hope for this season. Sunday needs to be do or die. And then get a string of positive results going. Inter did it with Pioli last season, even Juve got off to an awful start under Allegri and ended up winning the league by double digits. Not saying we need to win the league, but we can definitely get this right to fight for 4th. Hell we even did it under Allegri when we beat out Montella's Fiorentina for 4th.

With all the money that was spent and all the supposed quality we brought in, sadly Borini has given the most consistent of performances and that's playing out of position as a wingback.
 
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Kojak

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The real problem is that other teams didn't wait for us to take their CL spot and improved significantly.

Napoli are undefeated.
Inter drew once.
Lazio, Juve, Roma lost only once.

All of these teams are doing much better than last season after 8 weeks. Except for Juve maybe.

Last season this Milan would finish top 4 but this season will have to fight for it.

True but what do all of those teams have in common that we don't? They didn't spend hundreds of millions on the mercato but instead retained/hired a great coach. Allegri, Spalletti, Sarri, Inzaghi etc.

All of these teams look organized and play with a clear identity and besides Juve none have a significantly better squad than ours. Our team still looks clueless (as shown in the first half yesterday).
 

ChinaMilan

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if we are going to play like shit against Genoa or Chievo montella should be fired even if we win both, we should win and convincely doing so to get some confidence.
 
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