English Premier League Thread III

General

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Na times have changed old man.

The days of teams dominating for a decade are long gone. Max you're looking at is 5 years imho before a team is broken up and players leave.

Back in Milans time there were very few clubs that could compete with us on a financial level. Now you got atleast 10-15 that can splash the cash. Epl has atleast 5-6 clubs with cash to splash

Also we got lucky in having that backline of Baresi n co which meant we only really had to invest in midfield and forwards

Fairpoint about not winning the league...but they've only come 2nd to the greatest team in the history of English Football. No shame in that at all...and this season they've sewn it up by christmas lmao. Back to back ucl appearances is not to be scoffed at...something Barcelona have never managed despite all that help from referees

The point I think he was making is that it's hard to see this team losing... and that is very much like the milan side of the 90s. 58 games without defeat...whilst this pool side has 1 defeat in 52 games in what is notoriously a difficult league.


5 minutes after Real Madrid destroyed the CL record and was fairly competitive in almost every league run... with multiple coaches...

And 10 minutes after Pep’s Barca basically was the most intimidating team on the planet for several years...

You’re saying this?



Let me tell you... you’re simply not letting any time pass before judging the how “way things work now” truly is


In almost every sport, unless there are very strict salary cap restrictions, you’re going to have peaks and valleys bolstered by a team which has figured out the right system and lasts for several years.

that isn’t going away.

And Liverpool, although it looks like they have taken that next era’s place as the dominant force, still need to prove it out for a few years.

if they do that, then I’ll agree.
 

General

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“We got lucky”

Chicago got lucky with MJ

Milan got lucky with Baresi

LA got lucky with Magic, Shaw, Kobe

Madrid got lucky with CR7

Barca got lucky with Messi


Don’t. Don’t give me that luck argument. Every dominant team has stars that align.

Talent, the right coach, the right financial backing

That’s not luck
 

Pingu

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General

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Nalim

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Tbf he does make a valid point. That Milan side was unbeatable...and this liverpool side has the same aura around it.

Pools defence is awesome with 2 world class attacking full backs. Attack is one of the best in the world alongside psg and juves

That being said... liverpools midfield is trash. None of them are truly world class.

Props to kloppitty klopp for winning with a team that contains jordan henderson :thumbsup:

There are 5 teams in Serie A who've scored more goals than Juve so far this season. In what world is their attack among the best in the world?
 

beegees

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fray

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Liverpool play bad, but ultimately they win.
 

Ronin

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Liverpool play bad, but ultimately they win.

That's what all top teams do. Also Wolves are a very hard team to beat.. ask Fraudiola
 

Goodfella

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Happy for Carlo. He seems to belong in EPL. His tactical acumen really stands out amidst all the Steve Bruces and Sean Dyches. He also schooled Klopp at Napoli.
The bad side of him, the Carlo that lazifies teams and neglects league games, seems to be obliterated by the intensity and glamour of EPL games.
 

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so you trying to tell me LC as 2nd team in epl, lost home game 0-4 without creating any decent chance for 90 minutes is symptom of strength?

They've overachieved and the other clubs beneath them have all gone through crisis. We may only have 2 elite teams (City are having issues though) but beneath that there is a big group of good teams - far deeper than any other league.

It's quite hard for the PL teams to become elite now because it's an absolute dog fight with United, Spurs, Chelsea, Arsenal and Leicester all scrapping it out, with no club having the stars aligning (Liverpool) or the financial power & structural obsession to succeed (City) that will enable them to pull away from the pack and join the top 2.

Look at a team like Bayern, Madrid or Juve - they can have an absolute collapse but still make the CL the next season and can theoretically progress as a squad. Many reliable links say the reason United didn't get Sancho last Summer was because we missed out on top 4 - had there been less competition, we made 4th, bought him, then suddenly we look a much stronger force. Eventually we'd get to Summer 2020, again have CL qualification with a good team and can strengthen further and possibly even make it a league of 3 elite teams.

It used to be a case of teams trying to consolidate themselves as a top 4 team but unfortunately none of Leicester-Chelsea-United-Spurs-Arsenal have that luxury. One iffy season and you end up looking like fodder in 7th place. I don't think Leicester will keep it up for too long, but unfortunately there's heavy links suggesting a Qatar group connected to PSG owners are very interested in buying Leeds United who're about to be promoted, so there's another potential power that will rise up.

Dark days for a United fan if we add Leeds to the mix. Our 3rd biggest rival who hate United more than Liverpool and City do :lol:
 
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beegees

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So West Ham fires Moyes. Hires Pellegrini. Fires Pellegrini. Hires Moyes.
:lol:
 

Ronin

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So West Ham fires Moyes. Hires Pellegrini. Fires Pellegrini. Hires Moyes.
:lol:

We should have done the same after the GP disaster
 

Balo45

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Calling Liverpool right now one of the best teams ever is ridiculous. They are the best team in the world right now but add some context to that.

In the epl, as mentioned in other posts the league has a boat load of good to not great teams. They all consistently go through hot and cold spells. Arsenal and united last season went on near 20 game unbeaten runs only to follow with a long winless stretch. Chelsea this season the same more or less. Spurs was not too far off the top two last year but then imploded. And this creates a unique situation where any team in the PL that gets its shit together and gets any chemistry(which is difficult to be fair) dominates. This has been this way for years. There’s tons of pressure to make top 4, and that pressure means clubs like Chelsea united spurs united all have been constantly changing their team and coaches. This allows the consistent clubs, right now City plus Liverpool, but others in the past. Liverpool and city had that chance to dominate, but Chelsea under conte also won the most games at the time of any epl club ever. Are they a top 5 epl team ever? Leicester won the league by 10 points even. It’s always one or two teams rising up amongst the dog fights and it allows them to dominate. Difficult league by far but if you make the step from good to elite you will accumulate a lot of points. It’s been that way for 5 years now, city and Liverpool just took it to another level.


In terms of the Champions league, Liverpool also gets credit no doubt, deserved winner. But they did not and have not played anything close to anything I wonder consider a dynasty team. The Champs league is ten times more open than it’s been in YEARS. For a long time there were several ruling clubs that dominated the knockouts and would swap places in the semifinals every season. Barca, Bayern, Juve, atletico, Madrid. At least two or three of that bunch was in the top 4 for the better part of a decade. Atletico and Juve both made two finals with great teams just like Liverpool has now, but fell to the juggernauts Madrid and Barca were. Barca with MSN was crazy, Madrid was definitely a dynasty with 4 trophies in a few years, and 3 in a row. (By the way that Madrid team FAR better than Liverpool now lmao).

Last season, it was way more open and better from a neutral point. Juventus was at the end of the allegri era and swapped their soul to get ronaldo. Juve now has a new coach=transition period. Atletico core squad got old or pushed out last couple years, they’re not the same=transition. Bayern not the same, doesn’t have a concrete coaching plan right now=transition. Barca weak mentality, easily outplayed Liverpool but choked, did the same vs Roma which is no coincidence, now has a new not established coach=transition. Madrid=obvious transition. The ruling class of Europe finally fell off their perch and Liverpool PLUS other teams pounced. Tottenham made the final, they would never make the final in a normal season. Ajax almost made the final with kids, talent but they came from nowhere, would not have beaten Madrid plus Juve in a normal year. There were probably 6-7 teams capable of making the final. The competition was very open and it will be this year also. Liverpool almost didn’t make it out of the group last year, and they had the same issue this year.

The point is not to take away from Liverpool it’s just insane to think they’re that good already, crazy point total or not. They’re the best team in the world but they’re not close to what some are saying. They need to do this for years to be like that
 

beegees

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just found out that Liverpool has some analysist who created a mathematical model that convinced their owner on hiring Klopp. Their analyses also generated the signings of Salah and Keita.
Their analysis team is based on baseball team Boston Red Sox's. It consists of a doctorate in theoretical physics, an astrophysics major, a former junior chess champion with a graduate math degree and a doctorate in high-energy physics. They have successfully combined the statistical analyses usage of baseball for football. Moneyball.

How Data (and Some Breathtaking Soccer) Brought Liverpool to the Cusp of Glory [The New York Times]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/22/magazine/soccer-data-liverpool.html

Screen-Shot-2020-01-18-at-8-58-59-PM.png



man, I wish we started this method as well.
 
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Az.

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just found out that Liverpool has some analysist who created a mathematical model that convinced their owner on hiring Klopp. Their analyses also generated the signings of Salah and Keita.
Their analysis team is based on baseball team Boston Red Sox's. It consists of a doctorate in theoretical physics, an astrophysics major, a former junior chess champion with a graduate math degree and a doctorate in high-energy physics. They have successfully combined the statistical analyses usage of baseball for football. Moneyball.

How Data (and Some Breathtaking Soccer) Brought Liverpool to the Cusp of Glory [The New York Times]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/22/magazine/soccer-data-liverpool.html

Screen-Shot-2020-01-18-at-8-58-59-PM.png



man, I wish we started this method as well.

Good read, thanks for that :star:

Also Pep Machine with another flat tire, 2 - 2 today vs Palace :lol:
 

Nalim

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Mustafi with a horrible back against Chelsea that lead to David Luiz fouling Abraham in the box resulting in a red card for him and a penalty for a Chelsea that Jorginho then converted to a goal. Imagine some people actually thought Mustafi would be a good signing for Milan :fp:
 

KujaIX

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The people who think Mustafi would be a good signing are the kind that thought Ron Vlaar and Walcott would be good signings.

Aka, EPL is bezt leaug
 

joyrider

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Puki from Norwich is amazing

Eriksen has become meh under Mourinho
 

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Just feck off woodward
 

Pingu

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And it ended in a draw.
10c935e83c8cbb77f98061ccb04cfce6.jpg

The second goal was something else. All those players on the goal line :eek: and managed to score since keeper had to push it out the net. Some Buffon shit he tried to pull.
 

Milan2012

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Man U fans are so annoying. Comparing their situation to our last years with B&G.

You just spent 80 million on Maguire. We were buying Kévin Constants. Our guys went broke, your guys don’t know how to waste their money. It’s not the same.
 

Pingu

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Man U fans are so annoying. Comparing their situation to our last years with B&G.

You just spent 80 million on Maguire. We were buying Kévin Constants. Our guys went broke, your guys don’t know how to waste their money. It’s not the same.

£53m for Fred too. Wasting away money that could've built a squad. Sounds more like our current situation but with more money.
 

IL Diavolo 3

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Man U fans are so annoying. Comparing their situation to our last years with B&G.

You just spent 80 million on Maguire. We were buying Kévin Constants. Our guys went broke, your guys don’t know how to waste their money. It’s not the same.

But its not wrong. Milan 97-2001 was a replica on United sitation. It was even worse than the current situation. Never mind the 1999 scudetto.
 

Milan2012

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But its not wrong. Milan 97-2001 was a replica on United sitation. It was even worse than the current situation. Never mind the 1999 scudetto.



They’re too young to even know that stint, they’re talking about 2014-current.
 
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