The Rumour Commode XXIX: The real Maldoban era.

MilanBG said:

Exactly. Milan full of shit players, no UCL, no stadium, not a single star was sold for 750 m. Now imagine Milan being at UCL's 1/8, having a stadium, young valuable squad with a few stars. That's 1.5 b without much trouble

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Plus Milan's sttadium will bring in much more revenue than Juve's. Milan is a much bigger city than Turin. The stadium will have a much higher capacity. The stadium will be part of a huge development that includes shops, restaurants, cafes... The whole development will be jointly owned by Milan and Inter.

Whoopsie Kojak :devilsmo:

brk said:

I don't think their policy is to buy low to sell high. It's buy low to raise the value of the club. They want to cash out ASAP, they don't want to run the club for longer than they have to.

Yeah I don't see Ibra staying but maybe Kjaer will stay. He's cheap and low risk. Same with Saelemaekers. I don't agree with Reina, I think his salary is just too crazy high for Elliott, he won't stay. I'm sure we can find a good goalkeeper for a reasonable amount. No need for him to be as good as Donnarumma, just someone good enough.

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Kjaer showed in many occasions he was just a disaster and Saelemaekers has the potential to reach Brescia bench at best. If this is our future, then we have to be satisfied with midtable performances and resulsts starting from september. Which is actually already going on for some time.

FFP regulations have been relaxed officially.

Time to pop the champagne.

Il grande Milan said:

Kjaer showed in many occasions he was just a disaster and Saelemaekers has the potential to reach Brescia bench at best. If this is our future, then we have to be satisfied with midtable performances and resulsts starting from september. Which is actually already going on for some time.

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Is that based off of the total 30-ish minutes that he played?
Holy shit what were our scouts thinking??

I'm personally still not buying the Rangnick thing and that Milan will turn into the next RB Leipzig or whatever.

I think Milan will bring in a coach with experience who will build off of what Pioli has done this season. He hasn't done great, but we can all see some progress.

There are two coaches available who have, in the past, continued work that Pioli started: Simone Inzaghi and Spalletti.

I'd be happy with either one, probably prefer Spalletti due to his tactical flexibility and experience. After that, I see the team continuing with the 4231 or a variation of it.

I see Milan bringing players like: De Paul, Paredes (in a money + Paqueta deal maybe?), a striker (someone with Milik's profile maybe), a RB, + a couple of younger players to add depth.
I think Gigio is probably out this summer.

MilanBG said:

Exactly. Milan full of shit players, no UCL, no stadium, not a single star was sold for 750 m. Now imagine Milan being at UCL's 1/8, having a stadium, young valuable squad with a few stars. That's 1.5 b without much trouble

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It's possible over the long term but certainly not by 2022 as stated in your original post. Take Roma for example, they've qualified for the CL 5 times in the last 6 seasons and made large profits by selling star players such as Marquinhos, Pjanic, Alisson, Salah etc and reached the CL semis after knocking out Barca. However, this has only enabled them to obtain the same valuation as present day Milan (even Forbes ranks them 2 places higher).

Now, given that Milan is a recognised brand worldwide and after factoring in the new stadium, Rangnick would still need to hit the ground running and achieve consistent CL qualifications (over several seasons) and sign the next Kimmich, Firmino, Upamecano, Werner etc. to achieve such a high valuation. E.g. RB Leipzig's squad is currently worth 200m more than ours and just 100m less than Juve's.

Given his track record, it's definitely possible but we don't know how his football will translate in Italy against the likes of Juve, Inter, Napoli, Roma, Lazio & Atalanta.

Il grande Milan said:

Kjaer showed in many occasions he was just a disaster and Saelemaekers has the potential to reach Brescia bench at best. If this is our future, then we have to be satisfied with midtable performances and resulsts starting from september. Which is actually already going on for some time.

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Kojak said:

It's possible over the long term but certainly not by 2022 as stated in your original post. Take Roma for example, they've qualified for the CL 5 times in the last 6 seasons and made large profits by selling star players such as Marquinhos, Pjanic, Alisson, Salah etc and reached the CL semis after knocking out Barca. However, this has only enabled them to obtain the same valuation as present day Milan (even Forbes ranks them 2 places higher).

Now, given that Milan is a recognised brand worldwide and after factoring in the new stadium, Rangnick would still need to hit the ground running and achieve consistent CL qualifications (over several seasons) and sign the next Kimmich, Firmino, Upamecano, Werner etc. to achieve such a high valuation. E.g. RB Leipzig's squad is currently worth 200m more than ours and just 100m less than Juve's.

Given his track record, it's definitely possible but we don't know how his football will translate in Italy against the likes of Juve, Inter, Napoli, Roma, Lazio & Atalanta.

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It would take 5+ years

Batman said:

It would take 5+ years

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Agreed...but that's not to say that we can't qualify for the CL within a year or two given the success he's had with Leipzig who's average squad age is 23.

Kojak said:

Agreed...but that's not to say that we can't qualify for the CL within a year or two given the success he's had with Leipzig who's average squad age is 23.

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I think, historically, young teams struggle in Serie A. Milan would just sign unknown young players like Saelemaekers and they're going to be very inconsistent for a while. I don't like it

Batman said:

I'm personally still not buying the Rangnick thing and that Milan will turn into the next RB Leipzig or whatever.

I think Milan will bring in a coach with experience who will build off of what Pioli has done this season. He hasn't done great, but we can all see some progress.

There are two coaches available who have, in the past, continued work that Pioli started: Simone Inzaghi and Spalletti.

I'd be happy with either one, probably prefer Spalletti due to his tactical flexibility and experience. After that, I see the team continuing with the 4231 or a variation of it.

I see Milan bringing players like: De Paul, Paredes (in a money + Paqueta deal maybe?), a striker (someone with Milik's profile maybe), a RB, + a couple of younger players to add depth.
I think Gigio is probably out this summer.

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Spalletti would be a great alternative given his track record for rebuilding clubs and achieving consistent CL qualifications. However, he would command a much bigger salary than Ralf and would ask for large investments and I can't see Elliott agreeing to either. He would definitely be the safer option though.

Kojak said:

Spalletti would be a great alternative given his track record for rebuilding clubs and achieving consistent CL qualifications. However, he would command a much bigger salary than Ralf and would ask for large investments and I can't see Elliott agreeing to either. He would definitely be the safer option though.

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Haha you gotta pay up to get a good coach. I agree with what you're saying though

Kojak said:

I’m not so sure...RB Salzburg have a habit of following the Atalanta model and selling their best players every year e.g. Haaland, Minamino & Dabbur not to mention selling the likes of Haidara, Upamecano & Keita to their sister club Leipzig. Apparently they made over 200m profit on player sales over the past 5 years. As for Leipzig, they’ve done reasonably well to hold onto their best players despite selling Keita for big bucks to Liverpool. It will be interesting to see what happens this summer given that a host of top EPL clubs are sniffing around their best players e.g. Werner, Upamecano, Sabitzer & Konate.

Re Kjaer, IMO he’s the epitome of mediocre Milan and needs to make way for somebody younger. Leipzig’s starting CBs are 20 & 21 and they’re 3rd in the league. In fact, their oldest CB is 27 whilst the fourth & fifth choice are both still teenagers. Also, Reina still has a year left on his contract and earns 3m which is probably the salary cap limit so I don’t see why Elliott would get rid of him if Donna’s sold.

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Salzburg was always set out to be farm club. Well perhaps not entirely but definitely after Mateschitz realized, that he was somehow capped by being in the Austrian league when it came to developing a world class club.

Their main goal is regional dominance, showing decently well in Europe and developing local talent as well as priming their overseas academy and partner club talents for Leipzig. They sell the players that they don't deem essential because they can easily replace them and use the funds to further their network. You don't need Haaland to win the Austrian league, so if a good offer comes in they'll take it. It also makes it easier to acquire new talent because they don't fear being chained to the club.

As for Leipzig - the only sell what they absolutely must. They won't let a player walk for free and they also have to adhere to FFP but as I understand, their goal is to be number 1 eventually.

Their approach is very intelligent and a testament for the business acumen of the people behind it. They transformed a lot in that regard and have come a long way from simply splashing cash and brute forcing their way up.

Still, even with this approach there have been duds like Oliver Burke.

Any club that can should aspire to emulate their ways but it'll take time. Salzburg had the benefit of growing in Austria with funds that dwarfed their competition and really no pressure. Leipzig had the benefit of being able to grow over years during their ascencion from lower levels of German football and low expectations to do well.

Milan simply is different - even now, a season outside the top 4 is deemed a failure. It would be interesting to see how this approach would work here and if the people have the patience.

Batman said:

I think, historically, young teams struggle in Serie A. Milan would just sign unknown young players like Saelemaekers and they're going to be very inconsistent for a while. I don't like it

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Saelemaekers is fodder and Ralf has carved out a reputation for signing some great players at bargain basement prices e.g. Firmino, Sane, Haaland, Werner, Upamecano, Keita etc.

In fact, RB Salzburg generated over 200m profit on players he signed over the last 5 years whereas Leipzig's squad is worth 200m more than ours and just 100m less than Juve's but cost hardly anything. To put it in perspective, their top 5 players are worth 225m but only cost 24m to sign!

That's why I'm not too concerned what our transfer budget is as when it comes to signing the right players for the right price few are better than Ralf.

Also, as far as coaching is concerned, he's a huge upgrade on the likes of GP and Pioli but will surely need some time to get accustomed to the league.

Kojak said:

It's possible over the long term but certainly not by 2022 as stated in your original post. Take Roma for example, they've qualified for the CL 5 times in the last 6 seasons and made large profits by selling star players such as Marquinhos, Pjanic, Alisson, Salah etc and reached the CL semis after knocking out Barca. However, this has only enabled them to obtain the same valuation as present day Milan (even Forbes ranks them 2 places higher).

Now, given that Milan is a recognised brand worldwide and after factoring in the new stadium, Rangnick would still need to hit the ground running and achieve consistent CL qualifications (over several seasons) and sign the next Kimmich, Firmino, Upamecano, Werner etc. to achieve such a high valuation. E.g. RB Leipzig's squad is currently worth 200m more than ours and just 100m less than Juve's.

Given his track record, it's definitely possible but we don't know how his football will translate in Italy against the likes of Juve, Inter, Napoli, Roma, Lazio & Atalanta.

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In finance anything that is expected to happen in the future gets automatically built into the present value minus a certain discount rate. So for example if the stadium project is now 80% expected to go through then 80% of the value that the project gives the club is already added to the club's present vale minus a discount rate ( discount rate depends on yearly returns you could get on similar investments). Now as soon as the stadium is 100% approved by the council then the amount added to the club's current value already jumps up.

Then if Rangnick is super successful in his first year and comes 2nd or 3rd in serie A then future CL qualification become an expected thing (based on Milan's superior financial position from stadium, sponsorships, international brand etc...). Again those expectations would automatically get added to club's value especially with 2 consecutive CL qualifications.

Now top 4 in the next 2 seasons is not guaranteed but if it did happen then that combined with the stadium project gives a huge jump in value in a short period of time.

Alec said:

Salzburg was always set out to be farm club. Well perhaps not entirely but definitely after Mateschitz realized, that he was somehow capped by being in the Austrian league when it came to developing a world class club.

Their main goal is regional dominance, showing decently well in Europe and developing local talent as well as priming their overseas academy and partner club talents for Leipzig. They sell the players that they don't deem essential because they can easily replace them and use the funds to further their network. You don't need Haaland to win the Austrian league, so if a good offer comes in they'll take it. It also makes it easier to acquire new talent because they don't fear being chained to the club.

As for Leipzig - the only sell what they absolutely must. They won't let a player walk for free and they also have to adhere to FFP but as I understand, their goal is to be number 1 eventually.

Their approach is very intelligent and a testament for the business acumen of the people behind it. They transformed a lot in that regard and have come a long way from simply splashing cash and brute forcing their way up.

Still, even with this approach there have been duds like Oliver Burke.

Any club that can should aspire to emulate their ways but it'll take time. Salzburg had the benefit of growing in Austria with funds that dwarfed their competition and really no pressure. Leipzig had the benefit of being able to grow over years during their ascencion from lower levels of German football and low expectations to do well.

Milan simply is different - even now, a season outside the top 4 is deemed a failure. It would be interesting to see how this approach would work here and if the people have the patience.

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Yeah I assumed that Salzburg were more of a selling club because they operate in a less competitive league compared to Leipzig. However, like I said before, it will be interesting to see what Leipzig do this summer given that virtually all of their top players are wanted by EPL or other Bundesliga clubs. We know they cashed in before when they were presented with a ridiculous offer for Keita so they'll probably do the same for Werner given that Schick has rediscovered his form.

As far as Milan's concerned, I think that following the Leipzig model is the most sensible approach given that we've squandered hundreds of millions over the last few years with disastrous results. However, the success of the project will depend on Ralf's ability to sign the right players but given his background and with the assistance of Moncada (who did will at Monaco) they should be able to succeed if given time.

Samaldinho said:

FFP regulations have been relaxed officially.

Time to pop the champagne.

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Pingu said:

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#ArnaultWeCan
#SMSWeWill

Kojak said:

Yeah I assumed that Salzburg were more of a selling club because they operate in a less competitive league compared to Leipzig. However, like I said before, it will be interesting to see what Leipzig do this summer given that virtually all of their top players are wanted by EPL or other Bundesliga clubs. We know they cashed in before when they were presented with a ridiculous offer for Keita so they'll probably do the same for Werner given that Schick has rediscovered his form.

As far as Milan's concerned, I think that following the Leipzig model is the most sensible approach given that we've squandered hundreds of millions over the last few years with disastrous results. However, the success of the project will depend on Ralf's ability to sign the right players but given his background and with the assistance of Moncada (who did will at Monaco) they should be able to succeed if given time.

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I think it'll depend on how high the offers are and the will of the player.

I'd love to see competent long term transfer dealings at Milan for a change, god knows we haven't had that in a long while. Theo panning out the way it did was extremely satisfying, I want more like that. Even Bennacer was great to see but he has still some work to do and definitely tone it down with the stupid cards he gets.

Alec said:

I think it'll depend on how high the offers are and the will of the player.

I'd love to see competent long term transfer dealings at Milan for a change, god knows we haven't had that in a long while. Theo panning out the way it did was extremely satisfying, I want more like that. Even Bennacer was great to see but he has still some work to do and definitely tone it down with the stupid cards he gets.

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Like I said in my other post, Leipzig’s top 5 players by market value were signed for only 25m so for me it’s not a question of bid size but Ralf’s ability to identify similar high quality players at dirt cheap prices (just like he did with Mane, Firmino & Keita). However, we’ll probably be competing against the same networks he developed at Leipzig & Salzburg but surely the chance to work under Ralf at Milan would swing things in our favour.

Also, good to see somebody else not overrating Bennacer to the moon and back. He’s a promising talent (just like Leao) but hasn’t exploded like Theo and doesn’t have a host of top clubs chasing him unlike the latter.

Pingu said:

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Can someone translate this to English?

Guys, things are slowly getting back to normal, we've been linked with Baselli. There is a light at the end of the tunnel.

Kojak said:

Saelemaekers is fodder and Ralf has carved out a reputation for signing some great players at bargain basement prices e.g. Firmino, Sane, Haaland, Werner, Upamecano, Keita etc.

In fact, RB Salzburg generated over 200m profit on players he signed over the last 5 years whereas Leipzig's squad is worth 200m more than ours and just 100m less than Juve's but cost hardly anything. To put it in perspective, their top 5 players are worth 225m but only cost 24m to sign!

That's why I'm not too concerned what our transfer budget is as when it comes to signing the right players for the right price few are better than Ralf.

Also, as far as coaching is concerned, he's a huge upgrade on the likes of GP and Pioli but will surely need some time to get accustomed to the league.

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You can’t label Saelemakers as fodder. He got to Italy at the end of the transfer window, in a new league, and barely had any time before the league got shut down.

Bennacer is also fodder apparently. He hasn't shown any talent. Only Theo has. Because he's scored some goals.

Donnarumma isn't worth much either. And Romagnoli is average. Napoli is asking 60m for Meret, who is on the bench, but, we would be lucky to get 50m for Donna.

Bennacer came from a bad team. So he's fodder. We've never gotten someone to serve for years and years in our midfield, like, from Cesana in Serie B or from a RELEGATED TEAM like Salernitana. How could we buy someone from a relegated team and expect them to play for Milan?

This team has not had a consistent direction. It is seven different philosophies of team style and has no coherence. Rangnick is supposedly going to give Milan that, and I hope he does, and makes us win 10 CLs in a row. Shit, I hope Pioli does, whoever is the manager.

But this team has a lot of talent in it. That's what is frustrating with them. But none of them are leaders yet. Donna is. Ibra is. Theo isn't though. His goals mask some big deficiencies. He's a great modern fullback, in that he can attack and has the lungs to get back. Whether he defends is a different matter.

Romagnoli plays a position that requires a lot of experience and he has had no stability. Acerbi played for us, and he's in a system and in a point in his career where he's finally doing the right thing. CB and CDM are the two most demanding positions for someone to play. And seeing Bennacer have trouble there, but blossom further forward shouldn't be a surprise. Locatelli will need time to grow into it. I'd love for him to become the next Albertini and come back, but he's going to need time. He didn't want to come back, he didn't want to be on the bench. He wanted to play. That's his gamble. I hope he comes back.

Donna is one of the best 10 GKs in the world, I say that confidently. And he has gotten markedly better each season. So has Romagnoli, but he's had a more difficult rise. There's a reason Barca and City are the names rumored for him and not Lazio or Benfica. Defending is worse now than before, and while he might not rise to a Nesta, he can easily be a Chiellini level player.

The team has not been put together for any single purpose or vision. Maldini and Boban had started, but it would take time.

Sacchi gave an interview the other day and he said that it was the lack of time and the pressure that would challenge Rangnick (or anyone) at Milan. Atalanta has the room to fail. So does Lazio. These are important differences when evaluating what to do and how to assess Milan and its rebuild in comparison to those teams.

While these players certainly can make the next step, they can just as well stagnate. Whether they make it or not will, in my view, depend on who they're surrounded with.

They don't all need to be leaders or great personalities - at least not for now. But we need more good character type of players overall. In the past seasons we had a lot of misfits, most noteably in the banter era. Talent alone will only get you so far and these bad characters corroded what Milan stood for.

So whoever gets to be in charge moving forward, I'd like them to put the onus on character fit just as much as role fit within the team and system. For that we also need to have the coach hired and plan with him for a considerable time. Can't really buy for a system when the coaching position is a revolving door but I concede that we definitely need to upgrade Pioli - we'd have to replace him sooner or later so ideally we'd do it asap if someone with a bigger long term upside is available.

Hard to predict the market though while we're still in lockdown with no definite end in sight.

Any clarity how this relaxed FFP would help us? I don't see any detailed reports

********** - Milan, Koopmeiners goal for the median: the Rossoneri on the "new Van Bommel"

Nevermore said:

********** - Milan, Koopmeiners goal for the median: the Rossoneri on the "new Van Bommel"

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As far as I remember there was a rumour that Ralf wanted him at RB this winter. Apparently highly rated

he seems like an interesting player and would costs only 15mil

https://www.vtbl.nl/nieuws/artikel/5078311/ac-milan-toont-concrete-interesse-koopmeiners