The MilanLab Thread

Beemer · Feb 19, 2008

I feel weird starting a thread with material from another forum, but quite frankly, this post hit the spot, especially in the wake of Ronaldo's injury problems.

"[Even] you have to admit that the Milan Lab is really crap nowadays, not only that they failed so many times with Ronaldo, but look at the other players this year as well - Serginho and Jankulovski have been injured for a long time, Nesta has the back problems he had last year as well, Emerson (who almost never been injured in his career) was out for 90% of the season [...] and Dida got injured getting up from a bench. Something has got to be rotten there."

What do you think? Is there some truth to this, or is it much ado about nothing?

jpick · Feb 19, 2008

how can it be a crock when we have the oldest team in the league and have had players perform at high levels until upper-30's or even 40's much more so than almost any other club.

ok, some guys who were getting older or were already crocked like ronaldo or redondo, couldn't be salvaged, but no other club would have salvaged them, either. the milanlab is fine. it enables guys like pirlo, nesta, and kaka to have played insane amounts of minutes for the past few years (some of the most in serie a in fact), and enabled maldini, costacurta, cafu, serginho, et al to achieve much at an age when most players are well past it.

i mean, lets get real, it's not like ronaldo was ruined by milanab, the guy had already had 3 knee surgeries and his body was ruined when he got here, and to be honest he never really did watch after his body. I don't think you can hold that against them too much.

compare milanlab's work to say, man utd last year. man utd had a deeper and younger squad last year than milan, yet they had a bigger injury crisis lat year than I can ever remember milan having, same went for chelsea. If you compare milanlab to perfection, then yeah it falls short, but if you compare it to other clubs, it has enabled milan to function and win trophies with a much smaller club and an older average age...of course, this might be enabling berlusconi and galliani to skate by with less transfer dealings than they should, but that isn't milanlab's fault...it's the fault of the management.

Honestly, this thread is silly i feel, again, just look at our average age. :eek:

N3d0 · Feb 19, 2008

I really don't think that our lab is crap. When it comes to Ronaldo and kind of injury he has it's almost impossible to heal it for good. Any contact he had during matches was also big factor in Ronaldo's injury. Speaking about other players I just think its some kind of bad luck or something.

Luis · Feb 19, 2008

Beemer said:
I feel weird starting a thread with material from another forum, but quite frankly, this post hit the spot, especially in the wake of Ronaldo's notorious injury problems.

"[Even] you have to admit that the Milan Lab is really crap nowadays, not only that they failed so many times with Ronaldo, but look at the other players this year as well - Serginho and Jankulovski have been injured for a long time, Nesta has the back problems he had last year as well, Emerson (who almost never been injured in his career) was out for 90% of the season, Pippo had a stone in his kidney for God's sake and Dida got injured getting up from a bench. Something has got to be rotten there."

Personally, I am becoming more convinced of the above (can't blame the kidney stones on them, though), but what do you think?

What about Maldini and Costacurta? or Pippo playing at his age... or Cafu .... etc.... or what they did with Harvey Esajas in 6 months....

slifersd · Feb 19, 2008

When evaluating the work of Milan lab, you have to understand that medical technology has only gone so far. And in Milan lab's case, they simply cannot make miracles happen. Ronaldo had it coming for him for his previous injury problems as well as his lack of effort in training for years. His injury was inevitable when played a lot of minutes consistently. Milan Lab cannot magically make his knees healthy again because they are damaged beyond repair. I don't know if Milan Lab is perfect or not, but blaming Ronaldo's problems on them is just irresponsible in my opinion.

Beemer · Feb 19, 2008

Luis said:
.... or what they did with Harvey Esajas in 6 months....

What did they do with Clarence's lackey in six months?

menon_inc · Feb 19, 2008

Beemer said:
I feel weird starting a thread with material from another forum, but quite frankly, this post hit the spot, especially in the wake of Ronaldo's injury problems.

"[Even] you have to admit that the Milan Lab is really crap nowadays, not only that they failed so many times with Ronaldo, but look at the other players this year as well - Serginho and Jankulovski have been injured for a long time, Nesta has the back problems he had last year as well, Emerson (who almost never been injured in his career) was out for 90% of the season [...] and Dida got injured getting up from a bench. Something has got to be rotten there."

What do you think? Is there some truth to this, or is it much ado about nothing?

I think ive talked about this in the past and it seems to be getting worse every day.

Az. · Feb 19, 2008

Dont think its a crock let me explain:

Ronaldo: pumped up whit drugs when he was young.. shit happens later.
Sergi: to old should not play any more
Ermerson: old ,so this shit starts to happen your not 20 any more.
Dida: same as the pig
Janku: here we might have failed .
Nesta: some things u cant cure but only ameliorate(sp? ) and he still plays like a star. :star:

drucurl · Feb 19, 2008

I think I'm losing faith in the Milan Lab....gone are the days when Chelsea bought Robben here to get patched up...When we bought Ronaldo I was supremely confident that he'd be fixed up in no time....only to be bitterly disappointed....It seemed that ronaldo was rehabbing quicker when training himself in Brazil than whenever he came here....Serginho's case has been a real disappointment. most of the Brazilians tbh (except for the mighty Diago) have been pretty banged up this season.

I wonder whether it's genuinely the once revered milanlab's fault or the ultra conpetitive (read "violent") nature of the calcio.

zZ[-_-]Zz · Feb 19, 2008

Forza Milan...

crazy4milan · Feb 19, 2008

a)Risks you take when you have an old team (and lack of depth which makes us rush certain players out of injuries).
b) It's not crap, but it won't magically dissapear injuries. Technologically it may have the best of the best things out there, but that alone won't make changes.
c) There's players that are injury prone just cause that's what they are, they can have the best doctors at their disposal, they can have the best physical preparation...but their body is like that.
d) It can have all the computers you want and all, but the biggest work is done by humans, and like anything made by humans it has the possibility of mistakes.
e) There are injuries which nothing in the world can prevent (a.k.a shit happens).

BTW, blamming MilanLab for Pippo's kidney stones is LOL worthy.

CanUNoTouch · Feb 20, 2008

Like people have already said, its the teams age that is the problem, not the Lab.

Ronaldo's problem is that he doesn't take care of himself off the field and especially when you hit your early 30's injuries are very hard to shake off if live a playboy/unhealthy lifestyle. Plus becuase of the severity of his previous injuries it has taken its toll on his body

If you look at alot of the Brits players from yesterday era, Bryan Robson, Paul McGrath, Norman Whiteside & Gazza (a few others) these were all wonderfully talented players but they never took care of themselves off the pitch mainly because they all loved to drink too much.

Ronaldo has a reputatipn for being a party animal his parties @ Madrid are famous, if it is any indication of what happened after he left there, Robinho has finally shown his true potential, while before that, he only showed it in fits and starts.

David · Mar 2, 2008

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/743daff6-e732-11dc-b5c3-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1

lia · Mar 2, 2008

David said:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/743daff6-e732-11dc-b5c3-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1

I was about to post this... :tongue:

It's a very interesting article.

"We are trying to make a system that may say: 'Now you will run 100 metres. You will rest 43 seconds, then run 80 metres, stop for one minute two seconds, and then run 61 metres.' We are trying to do this with predictive algorithms."

Talk about being specific...

Beemer · Mar 2, 2008

Don't know about you, but I can't read the entire article.

Italian Tsar · Mar 3, 2008

David said:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/743daff6-e732-11dc-b5c3-0000779fd2ac.html?nclick_check=1

It's a good read. Changing the topic, FT, though they have Jonathan Wilson on board, his articles aren't all that exceptional. But his columns in Guardian Unlimited, on Eastern European football, are a delight.

I wouldn't, for the life of me, damn the Milan lab. They've performed miracles over the years, and I trust them to continue that in the next decade, too.

peters · Mar 3, 2008

Oh man, you people really wanna blame milanLab for Ronaldo saga? Thats why i never wanted him in first place (not that i didnt support him while he was with milan).

jpick said it, they are fine. They are not perfect, but they are still best. Look at other clubs, younger players and same player-problems. Professional sport is just not healthy anymore... specially when you have 16 players for entire season.

Marcus · Mar 3, 2008

Can David or lia or anyone post the entire article, it seems the site needs registering?

Thanks

Italian Tsar · Mar 3, 2008

Marcus said:
Can David or lia or anyone post the entire article, it seems the site needs registering?

Thanks

Here you go.

Milan Lab’s secret of youth

By Simon Kuper

AC Milan’s very old men are sauntering around a training pitch in the hills near Lake Como. A grey man in a blue suit and blue trenchcoat gazes down at them, smoking a cigarette. Surely this smoker can’t be the head of football’s best medical team?

But it is. Jean Pierre Meersseman, Belgian director of the Milan Lab, may have discovered the secret of eternal youth. His Lab has helped make Milan world and European champions. On Tuesday, in the Champions League’s second round, Milan defend their title against Arsenal’s kids.

“As a matter of fact,” chuckles Meersseman when we sit down, “yesterday we had a game, and the average age was 33. We have the oldest team in Europe.”

He singles out Milan’s eternal captain, Paolo Maldini. “He’s close to being 40, and whenever he was running against that kid playing against him yesterday, he was much stronger. He’s close to perfect.”

What is the maximum age for a top-class footballer? “I think around 40. It used to be 34 at most.” Again, that soft chuckle.

The Milan Lab began in 2002. Milan had just spent €30m in transfer fees and salary to sign Real Madrid’s Fernando Redondo. Redondo’s body appeared perfect. Then it collapsed. Milan resolved never to waste €30m again. The Lab was created to reduce injuries.

“If you can predict the possibility of injuries,” says Meersseman, “you stop the player before.” The Lab discovered that just by studying a player’s jump, it could predict with 70 per cent accuracy whether he would get injured. It went on from there, collecting millions of data on each player on computers.

Meersseman says: “The extent of non-traumatic injuries has been reduced by over 90 per cent, compared with the previous five years. So that’s interesting. We have 92 per cent less medication than in the previous years.” Sadly, days after we spoke, Milan’s forward Ronaldo suffered the injury that may end his career.

When Milan buys players, is the Lab consulted?

“You bet you,” says Meersseman. “The last signature on the contract before the big boss signs is mine. On many occasions I said no, and I would say every” – he pauses – “yes, every time, the player did not do very well afterwards.”

Why might he veto a player? “Basically alterations in their gait mechanisms, how they jump. But we did sign some players when everybody said: ‘You can’t do it, he’s at the very end.’ I can give you a name: Cafu. That was five years ago. He’s still here. Because we saw the problem could be fixed.”

Having vanquished injuries, the Lab turned to perfecting Milan’s players. As each player was different, each needed a different regime. Clarence Seedorf, for instance, was banned from exercising certain muscles as they were already at the desired maximum.

The Lab now thinks this “sensory perception” is the key quality in football.

After meeting Meersseman I visited Daniele Tognaccini, Milan’s chief athletics coach, who is tall, slim and fairly superhuman himself. Tognaccini told me that the average Milan player ran 10 to 11 kilometres a game.

Who ran most? Kaká, Rino Gattuso and Cafu, replied Tognaccini. He laughed: “Ronaldo, no.”

But, he added, there was no correlation between running kilometres and winning matches. “There is a correlation between the number of sprints and winning.”

Before leaving the Lab converted, I asked Meersseman whether other big clubs did anything similar. “No.”

Why not? It seems a good idea. Meersseman smiled: “It seems a good idea. You can drive a car without a dashboard, without any information, and that’s what’s happening in soccer. There are excellent drivers, excellent cars, but if you have your dashboard, it just makes it easier. I wonder why people don’t want more information.”

Did other clubs ask him for advice? “Oh yes.” And what did he say? “That they should do it.” The Lab’s methods are secret. Ask Tognaccini to explain a certain machine, and he says: “No.”

Other clubs, said Meersseman, “fall back into the medical model. You see, that’s the problem. In medicine you are dealing with sickness. Here we are dealing with extremely healthy people.”

And the Lab has only just started. Its new partner Microsoft is improving the Lab’s software. Belgium’s University of Leuven is helping to perfect training. “Let me stop for a second and explain this better,” said Meersseman. “We are trying to make a system that may say: ‘Now you will run 100 metres. You will rest 43 seconds, then run 80 metres, stop for one minute two seconds, and then run 61 metres.’ We are trying to do this with predictive algorithms.”

Forget sharing information with other clubs. If the Lab sold its secrets to the world’s consumers, it would render face-lifts and wrinkle creams defunct. This could be the salvation of Italy’s economy.

Gatorbasu · Mar 3, 2008

Great article, thanks.

Marcus · Mar 4, 2008

Thanks Italian Tsar. Very good article. However I have two questions.

1. I don't remember anyone marking Cafu as a probable flop when we signed him. Matter of fact, I loved his performances with Roma and Brasil and thought he would be just the thing for us. Can anyone refresh my memory about that?

2. I remember Seedorf being a lot faster than he is now, and having a lot more stamina. If it's true that he has developed some muscles to perfection, how come he has such a decline in pure physical ability?

CanUNoTouch · Mar 5, 2008

Marcus said:
Thanks Italian Tsar. Very good article. However I have two questions.

1. I don't remember anyone marking Cafu as a probable flop when we signed him. Matter of fact, I loved his performances with Roma and Brasil and thought he would be just the thing for us. Can anyone refresh my memory about that?

2. I remember Seedorf being a lot faster than he is now, and having a lot more stamina. If it's true that he has developed some muscles to perfection, how come he has such a decline in pure physical ability?

IMO, It's to do with his age and also because he has been playin 1st team football @ a high level since he was 16/17 without any rest, he hasn't any major injuries that I can think of. If you think about it most players don't become 1st team regulars till they are 21/22 barring the odd exceptions due to ability.

So like Vieria when it goes it goes without warning, while alot of players you can see the decline coming. And considering he has done everything he can in club football his desire and hunger isn't what it once was.

In a sadistic way, sometimes it is better to have some sort of injury that keeps you out for a while to allow your body to heal, plus playin the amount of games that Milan have played since the turn of the year it has taken its toll. I think during my commentary of the game they said that Milan had played 2 more games than Arsenal have since 08 has began and that isn't good when an aging side is going up against teams like Arsenal & Man United of the world

jasiom · Apr 1, 2008

Football nowdays is becoming more and more like rugby, a lot of results are only down to Physical Fitness training, Strengh and Stamina... If you want to be the best... you need to work harder than most...also, and maily in those physical areas, so Injuries will be inevetable, in case of Milan's aging squad even more so, still Milan Lab, I am positive is doing wonderful things for Milan,
just look at Maldini... or...
What is the avarage age of current Europe and World Champions? ;-)

Strong players are the key, these days...
Gattuso, Ambrosini, De Rossi, Rooney, Materazzi... are they technically brazilian like? ...ish.. don't tink so, Jaaa?
but they get the results.

when the line of Ambrosini, Pirlo, Gattuso are not in top form, we lose, simple.
...and don't forget ;-) these are players that won the world cup.

more...
Is Baggio Right - Has Skill Disappeared From Football?

Besfort · Jun 2, 2008

Goal.com said:
Emerson: Milan Doctors Were Wrong
Milan flop Emerson is recovering from his recent operation, and he reveals that the wrong decision was made for him to play through the pain barrier last season.

Emerson moved to San Siro from Real Madrid last summer, but had a miserable season, making just six Serie A starts due to injury, and struggling when he was on the field.

The Brazilian has been heavily criticised, however it seems that a key reason for his poor form was because he was playing through injury.

“It would have been better [to rest] but I was influenced by the desire to give my all,” Emerson told the Gazzetta dello Sport.

“I should have stopped after Japan [the Club World Cup], but there were so many commitments so I carried on after consultation with my doctors.

“I surrendered when the pain became unbearable. So it's true - we made the wrong decision.”

Emerson had an operation on a stress fracture to his left leg, and he should be ready to return in around three months.

"I do not want to waste time,” the 32-year-old stated.

“The holiday with my family is already over. Now I am in Sao Paulo where I am following a programme of physiotherapyso I can get myself into a good condition.

"After the operation in mid-May Professor Martens told me that I would be ready in three and a half to four months. But now I have been guaranteed that I will recover in less than three months.”

What's wrong with our lab ?

drucurl · Jun 2, 2008

Bes said:
What's wrong with our lab ?

it's haunted by steve irwin

zZ[-_-]Zz · Jun 2, 2008

Forza Milan...

inomilan · Jun 2, 2008

zZ[-_-]Zz said:
there's nothin' wrong... it only seems Brazilians have undetectable injuries...

roflmao!!!!!!!!

drucurl · Jun 2, 2008

zZ[-_-]Zz said:
there's nothin' wrong... it only seems Brazilians have undetectable injuries...

More agenda driven hate mongering I see. I wonder if you've read the article. Emerson says that the Lab picked up the injury BUT reccommended that he still play. Their RECCOMMENDATION was screwed up........Naturally you are sending a not-so-thinly veiled attack on Ronaldo but didn't the same lab that couldn't find his injury look monumentally stupid when they gave hi the all clear loooong before Ronnie himself took the chance and f**ked up his knee o n the SAME leg that he complained about?? What about your beloved MVB.....pity the LAB could have done NOTHING to save either him or Redondo (*gasp* an Argentine).

Naturally Serginho and ODDO (lookie lookie an Italian- the zenith of professionalism) were out with undetected injuries too right? RIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGHHHHHHHHT

siatanhai · Jun 2, 2008

i thought milan was renound for having one of of not the best staff including physios etc in the world - i remember seeing something on this kind of thing as far as facilities n staff we rank right up there with the top teams apparently, but this was a long time ago

menon_inc · Jun 2, 2008

drucurl said:
More agenda driven hate mongering I see. I wonder if you've read the article. Emerson says that the Lab picked up the injury BUT reccommended that he still play. Their RECCOMMENDATION was screwed up........Naturally you are sending a not-so-thinly veiled attack on Ronaldo but didn't the same lab that couldn't find his injury look monumentally stupid when they gave hi the all clear loooong before Ronnie himself took the chance and f**ked up his knee o n the SAME leg that he complained about?? What about your beloved MVB.....pity the LAB could have done NOTHING to save either him or Redondo (*gasp* an Argentine).

Naturally Serginho and ODDO (lookie lookie an Italian- the zenith of professionalism) were out with undetected injuries too right? RIIIIIIIIIIGGGGGHHHHHHHHT

Heard of sarcasm ?

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