Official Basketball thread(NBA; EuroLeague etc)

Fuck you Stern.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ys-nba_dan_gilbert_email_lakers_hornets_trade_120811

dan gilberts letter to Stern-

Commissioner,

It would be a travesty to allow the Lakers to acquire Chris Paul in the apparent trade being discussed.

This trade should go to a vote of the 29 owners of the Hornets.

Over the next three seasons this deal would save the Lakers approximately $20 million in salaries and approximately $21 million in luxury taxes. That $21 million goes to non-taxpaying teams and to fund revenue sharing.

I cannot remember ever seeing a trade where a team got by far the best player in the trade and saved over $40 million in the process. And it doesn’t appear that they would give up any draft picks, which might allow to later make a trade for Dwight Howard. (They would also get a large trade exception that would help them improve their team and/or eventually trade for Howard.) When the Lakers got Pau Gasol (at the time considered an extremely lopsided trade) they took on tens of millions in additional salary and luxury tax and they gave up a number of prospects (one in Marc Gasol who may become a max-salary player).

I just don’t see how we can allow this trade to happen.

I know the vast majority of owners feel the same way that I do.

When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?

Please advise….

Dan G.

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He's right, by the way. Ridiculous trade.

If New orleans dumps cp3 it should be for youth and picks and cap relief. Rebuild.

This trade takes on a lot of salaries and puts them in Warriors land. Not shitty enough to get a top pick and get a durant, rose, griffin (franchise changer) but not good enough to make playoffs.

As a warrior fan i know about this.... it's a depressing place to be. 30-40 wins. ugh

Fucking Stern .This is exactly why real madrid and La lakers annoy me.These two teams are so alike. If anyone is a fan of both lakers and madrid your life is pathetic and you disgust me.

sushanmilano said:

Fucking Stern .This is exactly why real madrid and La lakers annoy me.These two teams are so alike. If anyone is a fan of both lakers and madrid your life is pathetic and you disgust me.

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Stern caved to pressure, but i don't think it's over yet. CP3 has gone to union head to discuss possibilities.

The trades a joke for reasons discussed above. It makes no sense.

New orleans would benefit more for trading for youth like Denver did with Melo for ex. UTah did with Deron (Utah got 2 lottery picks and derrick favors, 19 year old who was #4 pick and thought to be a hug prospect). Logic's obvious... if we're going to trade your franchise player, you want to rebuild, so you want opportunities to get best youth possible.

This trade.... makes no sense

Senatore_M84 said:

Stern caved to pressure, but i don't think it's over yet. CP3 has gone to union head to discuss possibilities.

The trades a joke for reasons discussed above. It makes no sense.

New orleans would benefit more for trading for youth like Denver did with Melo for ex. UTah did with Deron (Utah got 2 lottery picks and derrick favors, 19 year old who was #4 pick and thought to be a hug prospect). Logic's obvious... if we're going to trade your franchise player, you want to rebuild, so you want opportunities to get best youth possible.

This trade.... makes no sense

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Hornets get a Odom, Kevin Martin, Scola and Dragic. I think that's fair enough. It's better than losing Paul for nothing next summer.

I hate Stern! What he did is pathetic! Cancelled off for "basketball reasons" ?!
Shut the fuck up! Stern started to kill NBA along with Jordan which brings to the first lockout later and he will buried! NBA it's not your own property! Sacred stupidity!!

MILANpalermo23 said:

OFFICIAL: Chris Paul and Dwight Howard to the Pistons.

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+ a fit Jerebko

But to be fair...


Dragic is better then Paul.

Shevagool said:

+ a fit Jerebko

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Jerebko is the only thing I like about the pistons right now

.....and Will Bynum, although he doesnt get much of a chance.

If star players want to team up with star players, there is nothing you can do. Sorry but thats entertainment. You can hate the Heat and the Lakers but I doubt you will refuse to watch them because of your great morality values. Life is not fair, deal with it.

Stern is hurting the Hornets by this and he should know it, he is fighting a battle that cannot be won, in the end the players will should prevail no matter how he wants to protect the owners.

inomilan said:

Hornets get a Odom, Kevin Martin, Scola and Dragic. I think that's fair enough. It's better than losing Paul for nothing next summer.

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No, it's not.

You under nothing of the finances of basketball, which I explained above. I question how much you even understand basketball?

what will a starting 5 of Jarrett Jack, Kevin Martin, Trevor Ariza, Luis Scola, Lamar odom do? Go 30-52? Maybe if they're lucky 36-46?

What were hornets last year with Paul? 46 wins.

So clearly it's a talent LOSING trade.

Now teams making talent losing trades for long term gain ALL the time. It makes sense, you trade a star, you want to rebuild so you look for peices to rebuild with. But HORNETS DIDNT DO THAT. They took on a 32 year old, a 31 year old a 28 year old, all owed MINIMUM 3 years of high high contracts.

Tthey take on 20 million in salary ON AGING players? Lakers SAVE 40 mil? You fucking with me?

Are you fucking kidding me? They basically fuck themselves in the ass and become unable to make a trade because they are paying scola, odom, martin too much.

It's a bs trade.

The BEST offers from Paul involve 3 things-
1. young players on rookie deals (in their first 4 years) with potential
2. draft picks
3. expiring contracts which equal CAP RELIEF


They got none of this. Demps essentially got bent over.

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WHY do you think league owners veto'd it? This is unprescidented. No one veto'd Pau to LA, which was considered lopsided, or Melo/Chauncey to NYC

Madridista said:

If star players want to team up with star players, there is nothing you can do. Sorry but thats entertainment. You can hate the Heat and the Lakers but I doubt you will refuse to watch them because of your great morality values. Life is not fair, deal with it.

Stern is hurting the Hornets by this and he should know it, he is fighting a battle that cannot be won, in the end the players will should prevail no matter how he wants to protect the owners.

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NBA's not La Liga. There are rules with salary and competitive balance.

I have no problem REAL with Paul going to LA (beyond the fact i hate LA as a team). I have a problem with fact the trade was literally disgusting. I had no problem with Lebron to miami? Did i like him for it? No. But he was free to sign whereever he wanted. He could go play in china for all I care, it's his decision.


But this was NOT Paul's decision, nor was it the best decision for NOH. They had better offers for the hornets.


And CONSIDERING the hornets are owned by the NBA, it should matter.


Incase you didn't realize, Hornets owner went bankrupt because he couldn't make pay roll. They are a broke team. Because of this NBA siezed control and run the team. They are looking for a new owner but until then David Stern is their owner.


The trade took back less talent, but 40 mil in salary commitment to a team who cannot afford it, and royally fucked them.

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Don't talk if you don't know what you're saying

Interesting.

From Adrian Wojnarowski (one of top NBA writers)-

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
As Y! had reported, many owners voiced anger with Stern over deal. Some verbally, some, as documented here, in email. Stern made the call.
1 hour ago

WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
As for Dan Gilbert email obtained by Y! Sports, timestamp shows he didn't send to Stern until after 10 PM ET. Trade already had been killed.
1 hour ago

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Basically claimin (believe it or not), Stern/Silver said no on deal because they are acting owners of New Orleans for BASKETBALL reasons.

Good, cause it's not a legit trade. New Orleans could get more for him, and were offered better deals.

They need to rebuild if Paul goes. They need youth. They don't need to pay 100 mil total for Martin, Scola and Odom. That'll get them nowhere.

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If Lakers want to make this deal happen, they'll have to find a 3rd party who wants Gasol and his fat contract (their are many) and that 3rd party needs to pump new orleans full of youthful assets.

-Houston wants Pau, but their assets kind of suck.

-Could see someone like Indiana getting involved, but they don't have pieces to make a deal, i think

wtf is your problem, I'm not acting as if Im expert on NBA matters and rules or who owns what franchise and why. Though I find a lot of those salary and competitive balance rules silly and a bit communist, along with not respecting player wishes. I was only responding to people who don't like CP3 specifically to the Lakers, not the entire circumstances about him moving to another place.

btw, how is it not Paul's decision? What does he want really? Why did Stern stop the trade? He wanted to favor the Lakers with concentration of power but the other owners didn't let him? I still dont get it. As for the Hornets, and any other team in general, its a matter of preference so its not straighforward asyou say - draft picks or rookies>experienced veterans. In terms of quality obviously, not in terms of salary cap.

Let just welcome the upcoming D-Will-Dwight duo then
Although... what do you think Senatore?
Nets offer sucksass, but Magic accept it anyway.

Madridista said:

wtf is your problem, I'm not acting as if Im expert on NBA matters and rules or who owns what franchise and why. Though I find a lot of those salary and competitive balance rules silly and a bit communist, along with not respecting player wishes. I was only responding to people who don't like CP3 specifically to the Lakers, not the entire circumstances about him moving to another place.

btw, how is it not Paul's decision? What does he want really? Why did Stern stop the trade? He wanted to favor the Lakers with concentration of power but the other owners didn't let him? I still dont get it. As for the Hornets, and any other team in general, its a matter of preference so its not straighforward asyou say - draft picks or rookies>experienced veterans. In terms of quality obviously, not in terms of salary cap.

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Lol, spoken like a true Franco FC fan


On the serious though,
you have to understand- American sports are not a club system, they are a FRANCHISE system.

While bigger markets will always have an inherit advantage, their are many restrictions with salary. I mean Miami is a prime example, by basically cutting everyone and signing Lebron and Bosh, they were unable to bring much of ANYTHING around them.

I mean why have a draft? If we had a club system, kids like Lebron would be signed by age 12-13 to academies, but we don't do that. We wait till your 19, and you put your name in draft. Draft order is determined by worst record, so the worst team is rewarded with highest potential.

It's just the way it is, it's the way americans like it. American sports fan is fickle. They don't have attachment to local team like europeans. If they think their team NEVER has a shot... they won't go to games.

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The problem is, New Orleans would actually be better off long term if they kept Paul and got nothing.

The trade they are making puts them in no mans land, paying a lot of money to never rise.

Atleast paul leaving for free would tank them and they'd get a top pick, who could be a franchise player like paul, like durant, like blake griffin etc.

That's why when Utah traded Deron Williams, they took 2 top prospects and 2 draft picks (in the lottery). They they scout correctly, they will pick a couple good prospects and will rise in a few years, like OKC for ex.

fertygo said:

Let just welcome the upcoming D-Will-Dwight duo then

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Scary if it happens.

Depending who is around them, that'll take Miami, simply cause those are two positions miami is HOPELESS at.

All they need are 3 good defenders surrounding. Nothing fancy, go lakers model where you had a robert horry and rick fox types. hit open shot, play D.

Let Dwight and Deron do all the offensive work

Hypothetical...

how much trade value does Bosh have? And how high is his value for this Miami team?
Srsly... he is a highly rated superstar who didn´t step up last season as he should or better said was expected from him.

You can´t tell me that with trading Bosh Miami can´t find one or two players who would fit James and Wade better.

bosh is a pussy. no balls.

Senatore_M84 said:

That's why when Utah traded Deron Williams, they took 2 top prospects and 2 draft picks (in the lottery). They they scout correctly, they will pick a couple good prospects and will rise in a few years, like OKC for ex.

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and until then, there is further losses. The proposed three way trade would have had immediate effects for New Orleans. then instead of building for the future and still enduring losses in the meantime, they could continue trading until they find the right combination, in the meantime steadily picking up in a financial sense. I'm not sure if I'm making sense here, but I think we have a fundamental difference in terms of development.

anyway I really do think American sport organization and fans is plain ridiculous. all these teams seem artificial, so do their fans, there is no identity, no real tradition, no real affiliation. You dont have to explain the draft to me, I know how it works, but its still absurd.

Madridista said:

and until then, there is further losses. The proposed three way trade would have had immediate effects for New Orleans. then instead of building for the future and still enduring losses in the meantime, they could continue trading until they find the right combination, in the meantime steadily picking up in a financial sense. I'm not sure if I'm making sense here, but I think we have a fundamental difference in terms of development.

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Thing is, they wouldn't. From what I remember, and from what I've seen of what New Orleans has...they're lucky if they even get the 8th spot to qualify to the playoff (if the trade would've happened). The team apart from CP3 is mediocre at best, and those players they were getting weren't going to keep them on float. They were going to sink on the "mediocre level" of not being good enought to get to the playoffs and not being bad enough to get a good draft pick. Sinking to the mediocre level its far worse in NBA than being the worse team and then entering a re-building process where you get a top draft pick.

+ they're gonna have to pay an awful lot in salaries that aren't near expiration.

Madridista said:

and until then, there is further losses. The proposed three way trade would have had immediate effects for New Orleans. then instead of building for the future and still enduring losses in the meantime, they could continue trading until they find the right combination, in the meantime steadily picking up in a financial sense. I'm not sure if I'm making sense here, but I think we have a fundamental difference in terms of development.

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Here's the thing....

Basketball is SUCH a star driven sport.

-CP3 is more impactful on winning than Cristiano Ronaldo is in football
-Lebron can do more than Messi or Zlatan to help hiss team win
-Michael Jordan does more to win than Pele/Ronaldo/Maradonna did

That's just reality. Basketball is 5 v 5 and every player plays two wants. Even if they don't have the ball, a playter like Lebron effects game in a million ways.

Now if football was 5 v. 5, i'd change my point but it isn't.

The point is, a legitimate superstar can make you win. Look at Lebron with Cleveland in 09-10. And without him. 62 wins to 25 wins.

It's a team game, but if you have a legitimate superstar he lifts everyone by passing, scoring, rebounding, defending etc.


The only way to get these IF you're a small market is to draft them.


Because of system, you have players rights for basically 7 years. And from there it's up to you to find pieces around them.

San Antonio is a prime example- drafted duncan, got right pieces and won a title.

OKC is going down this path.

On flip side, Cleveland and New Orleans were idiots. They got stars and then blow their load paying guys like Big Z or no knees Peja 12-15 mil to play with them. That's simply bad management. you got a gift of a star, and you fucked it up.

Hardest thing to do is get the star, there are only a handful of them. If you have one, it's not hard to surround them

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FYI, every scout has said 2012 draft is best draft since 2003 when LEbron, Wade, Melo and Bosh were 4 of top 5 picks.

anyway I really do think American sport organization and fans is plain ridiculous. all these teams seem artificial, so do their fans, there is no identity, no real tradition, no real affiliation. You dont have to explain the draft to me, I know how it works, but its still absurd.

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I don't necessarily disagree with you. Though you're not entirely correct. Just remember NBA teams are mostly 50-60 years old. You cannot compete with a club who is 130 years in europe. There are loyal fans here, but it's not the same... americans aren't as loyal

However you're missing the bigger issue, it's american culture and identity.

The idea of fair and american dream are intrinsically tied to sports. The idea 'everyone has a chance'.

American's won't stand for a club system like lia liga, epl or serie a. It's just not american culture. I personally don't find anything wrong with it

I see. I just don't think Odom, Scola and Martin is such a bad deal. Especially Martin who is very underrated imo. If they can gel together it could be a playoff team. Teams are not just the sum of their parts, even in basketball. Putting stars in one squad doesn't work there either, Miami with LBJ and Lakers with Malone and Payton being the proof. I'm going on a limb here but still.

Madridista said:

I see. I just don't think Odom, Scola and Martin is such a bad deal. Especially Martin who is very underrated imo. If they can gel together it could be a playoff team. Teams are not just the sum of their parts, even in basketball. Putting stars in one squad doesn't work there either, Miami with LBJ and Lakers with Malone and Payton being the proof. I'm going on a limb here but still.

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Lakers with Malone and PAyton? Dude Malone was 40! Payton was 35. That's like saying how did lebron not win a title with Shaq! haha
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And Miami got to finals. They were very close. I wouldn't call it a fail. They'll win it this year unless some team makes a major change. I still cant' believe they lost cause Dallas played zone D. Zone is such a joke. Any team can break a zone.

I agree with your team point, but there's no denying impact 1 player can have. Just cause Lebron didn't win a title doesn't make him any less of a superstar. Way he carried awful cleveland side to 60+ wins shows his consistency.
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As for the deal-

Martin's overrated in my opinion cause he scores. He cant guard his own shadow. I mean he's a very 'meh' player. I can find you 100 players who can score 20 ppg if given opportunity. Also he makes 12.5 mil a year . Idiot Sacramento GM who gave him that deal.

Scola and Odom are over 30, and play same position. Both are nice players but i mean do you really think a team with these are you 3 best go anywherE?

They are better with CP3

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I'm just saying it's a poor deal because they are taking 40 mil extra in salary and getting worse.

But Stern fucked up big time. He should have killed this deal before it went public. Now CP3 will go to LA simply to fuck him, when he might have been otherwise persuaded to consider all options

Honestly, Lakers are stronger WITH Gasol, Lamar and Bunym then without Pau and Lamar and with CP3. But that's not the point! This is big bullshit from Stern! CP3 doesn't want to get back to the training. And it's not only him! There are many players who are angry about CP3 case and who don't want to come to the training to their teams to show solidarity with CP3. I think at the end this trade WILL go through! If not, it may have a big conscienceless. The peace in the NBA it's shaken after the lockout... this can make a new bomb!

ReBorned said:

Honestly, Lakers are stronger WITH Gasol, Lamar and Bunym then without Pau and Lamar and with CP3. But that's not the point! This is big bullshit from Stern! CP3 doesn't want to get back to the training. And it's not only him! There are many players who are angry about CP3 case and who don't want to come to the training to their teams to show solidarity with CP3. I think at the end this trade WILL go through! If not, it may have a big conscienceless. The peace in the NBA it's shaken after the lockout... this can make a new bomb!

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I totally agree Stern fucked up.

You have to remember, stern is the 'owner' of Hornets until they find one. So like all owners he's consulted when deals are being made. He should have said 'no it's not FAIR' well before it hit media.

Now it's in public and it looks awful. CP3 will want to go to LA just to fuck him over.

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@ Lakers being stronger. It's possible, but I guarantee they will make other moves. Find a PF. Or make the big move for Dwight (I believe Bynum for dwight is best offer Orlando will get)

Anyway, my issue with Hornets GM more than anything. The Lakers offer was awful for them. They traded best player to LA and 2nd best player (Pau) went to Houston? The GM is a moron

You think there is a possibility for both CP3 and Howard to both end up in LA? Orlando would seriously take Bynym for Howard?

imagine LA vs. Miami. No need for all star game. Fuck everything, I want it like candy.

Madridista said:

You think there is a possibility for both CP3 and Howard to both end up in LA? Orlando would seriously take Bynym for Howard?

imagine LA vs. Miami. No need for all star game. Fuck everything, I want it like candy.

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I think Bynum is best trade possible.

People underrate Bynums ability and potential for improvement.

He is an injury risk, but he's also younger than Howard, bigger than howard and averaged 15 points, 9 rebounds as a 4th option?

Imagine Bynum in a team where he was a #1 or #2. He'd be a 20 point/ 10 rebound guy

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He's already 2nd best center in NBA. And in Orlando's case, he's under contract for 4 more years, so he cant walk. They'd start rebuilding with him.

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For lakers it makes sense.... Dwight's a sure thing and a freak physically Doesn't miss games plays like 40 minutes..

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Apparently New Jersey is trying to get Dwight but best they can offer is Brook Lopez and fillers.

Who would you rather have? 22 year old Brook Lopez or 23 year old Bynum? Assuming Bynum checks out in a medical exam, I'd take Bynum 10 times out of 10. Brook lopez is a 7 footer who can't rebound or defend.

Brooke Lopez is a lightweight but I don't rate Bynum either. Is there no third option?

Pietrus to Raptors!