A goal that wasn't (Time to use technology?)

scharatz · Jan 5, 2005

Has anyone seen Man U - Spurs? Pedro Mendes' (Spurs) shot from over 60 metres hit Carroll's (Man U) shoulder and went a WHOLE METRE over the goal line before he punched it out and it was NOT given by either the referee or the assistant. It went in so much it almost hit the back of the net! And the fact it happened in the 89th minute at 0:0 just adds to the frustration. How long will we allow this to happen? :conf:

This is a good article about it from the bbc. The technology has so far been backed by Martin Jol (Spurs), Alex Ferguson (Man U), Arse Wenger (Arse), Steve McLaren (Boro) and Harry Redknapp (Southampton).

Video calls after Carroll clanger

Spurs boss Martin Jol said his team were "robbed" at Manchester United after Pedro Mendes' shot clearly crossed the line but was not given. "The referee is already wearing an earpiece so why can't we just stop the game and get the decision right," said Jol after the 0-0 draw.

"But at the end of the day it's so obvious that Pedro's shot was over the line it's incredible.

"We feel robbed but it's difficult for the linesman and referee to see it."

Mendes shot from 50 yards and United goalkeeper Roy Carroll spilled the ball into his own net before hooking the ball clear.

Jol added: "We are not talking about the ball being a couple of centimetres or an inch or two over the line, it was a metre inside the goal.

"What really annoys me is that we are here in 2005, watching something on a TV monitor within two seconds of the incident occurring and the referee isn't told about it.

"We didn't play particularly well but I am pleased - even now - with a point, although we should have had three."

Mendes could not believe the 'goal' was not given after seeing a replay.

He said: "My reaction on the pitch was to celebrate.

"It was a very nice goal, it was clearly over the line - I've never seen one so over the line and not given in my career.

"It's really, really over. What can you do but laugh about it? It's a nice goal and one to keep in my memory even though it didn't count.

"It's not every game you score from the halfway line."

Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson sympathised with Tottenham and said the incident highlighted the need for video technology.

"I think it hammers home what a lot of people have been asking for and that's that technology should play a part in the game," Ferguson told MUTV.

"What I was against originally was the time factor in video replays.

"But I read an article the other day which suggested that if a referee can't make up his mind after 30 seconds of watching a video replay then the game should carry on.

"Thirty seconds is about the same amount of time it takes to organise afree-kick or take a corner or a goal-kick. So you wouldn't be wasting a lot of time.

"I think you could start off by using it for goal-line decisions. I think that would be an opening into a new area of football."

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger also used the incident to highlight the need for video technology.

"When the whole world apart from the referee has seen thereshould be a goal at Old Trafford, that just reinforces what I feel - there should be video evidence," said Wenger.

"It's a great example of where the referee could have asked to see a replay and would have seen in five seconds that it was a goal."

Vernetti · Jan 5, 2005

I saw that goal like everyone else (except the ref).

The kind of thing that somehow only seems to happend when Manure is playing. Well, its not going to get them the english title this year no matter how much money they use buying referees.

DonippoKakaShevdini · Jan 5, 2005

I was shown this by a friend. Do you think it was just because it was Man U? Don't they receive similar treatment to Juve in the Premiership from refs?

Video replay probably wouldn't hurt too much if it were only used for goals and only at the ref's discretion.

scharatz · Jan 5, 2005

The photo shows the ball crossing the line by at least 50-60cm. But bear in mind the time it took Carroll to dive further and put his hand BEHIND the ball, pushing it upwards behind the line. By the time that happened the ball had crossed the line by at LEAST 80-90cm, if not more. This is a must-see for anyone. My eyes almost popped out when I saw it on the telly.

Do you think it was just because it was Man U?

Well, there's been "talk" of Man U getting decisions in their favour at Old Trafford more often than not, whether this is just fans' imagination or a fact I don't know.

Edi · Jan 5, 2005

scharatz said:

I was watching the game and but i was constanlty changing the channel cos' i was also watching Chealsa vs Midelsboro and I missed that moment.
I saw that moment later on the news and I really don't know how the ref or the linesman did not see that it was a clear goal???I don't know if he did that intentionally or unintentionally but either way definitlly a bad call and IMO every decent ref should have seen that.

Cescania · Jan 5, 2005

I heard that Blater (not sure) suggested to put a chip inside the ball for the convenience in refereeing. I hope power foot like Carlos, Sheva.... won't break the chip.

~Biski Biskit~ · Jan 5, 2005

The FA will introduce it definitely it's just a matter of time. There will be a lot of disputes, but nothing can beat what has happened at Man U yesterday. Eventually it will be introduced sooner or later.

I wouldn't like to see technology like they use at Rugby, takes too long, slows the game down. They have to work out how they will use it, that will take some time.

unrossonero · Jan 5, 2005

these changes of the rules pertain to fifa

we would all agree, i think, on adopting technology to avoid a mistake on a goal; i don't know about other situations like assessing a pk: italy is sadly the motherland of replays + subsequent endless discussions (moviola) ... well, one too many times people called to give an opinion about a certain action (most of the times, guests of sports tv programs) are divided even after watching it replayed tens of times.

i would also recommend to assess the impact of this on the potential outburst of violence in stadiums and, last but not least, the impact of costs, bearing in mind that fifa must govern the whole phenomenon (i wanted to say 'industry' :rolleyes:

) trying to avoid creating two different games: one for the rich clubs and another for the rest

so my vote goes for the 'yes' but under certain conditions + after thorough evaluation and tests

on a romantic note, i'd like to remind you all of a 'red star vs milan' dating back to nov 1988 when van basten's header sent the ball to actually hit the net of the goal (so, according to scharatz's above calculations it was a goal for at least 150 cms.

) but unfortunately ref didn't see it shake :tongue:

scharatz · Jan 5, 2005

I'm sure it wouldn't cost a fortune to build some sort of a system on the goal line which automatically detects whether the ball has crossed the line or not. Whether that's done by using a chip inside the ball or some other way makes no difference, as long as it works.

That decision would be automated and based on a fact, not someone's opinion so there would be no need for any arguments/violence or what have you.

unrossonero · Jan 5, 2005

scharatz said:
I'm sure it wouldn't cost a fortune to build some sort of a system on the goal line which automatically detects whether the ball has crossed the line or not. Whether that's done by using a chip inside the ball or some other way makes no difference, as long as it works.

That decision would be automated and based on a fact, not someone's opinion so there would be no need for any arguments/violence or what have you.

oh yes, of course, even though it could be argued that local juvenile clubs could find even that too expensive ... and they play football as well; anyway, my observation was referred to technology in general ... not only the goal issue

milan_my_love · Jan 5, 2005

Mendes strike was not a mistake by the ref but it was a blunder. If the ref can't see the ball going behind the line (+ it wasn't even marginal) i don't see a point in using services of this ref in the future games unless they (FA) are sure about integerity of this man + if he is medically fit or not.

Instead of using replay techonology (where ref or linesmen ask for the camera assistance) why don't use a fifth official who just watch it all on tele screen and in case of any mistake, he just points it out to the men in the middle. This way it won't waste the time as ~Biski Biskit~ refered + kick out the aweful decisons.

BTW, this wasn't the first incident when Man U got profited by the ref

cuore · Jan 5, 2005

That was ridiculous. I was just about to start a thread on this. I think its disgusting really. I don,t know what they could do about this. I say bring in like 10 officials from non-biased regions who dont give a shit about soccer and just have them line up along the field, calling anything they see. Now tat i think of it, thats an extremely stupid idea. nvm. I still can't beleive that shit.

Passion for *9* · Jan 5, 2005

I thought there was a similar thread in Discussions about refs + technology..

As for this incident, I have my own little theory. Of course it is an established fact + the evidence is out there that Manure receive a ton of preferential treatment by the refs on their home ground, BUT this time it was karma. Punishment for s.o. who wouldn't return a certain favour :tongue:

*I* have really tried my best

Passion for *9* · Jan 5, 2005

As for the financial aspect, there is no need to take surveillance to extremes + install sophisticated systems on 7th league pitches. It should be mandatory where a lot is at stake financially, top leagues + top international competitions. And the clubs + associations involved there are well-off enough to afford it.

cuore · Jan 5, 2005

I wonder... If Alex ferguson were to accept the goal, would the organization be able to give spurs the three points?

MilanMania · Jan 6, 2005

Maybe it's not the time to use technology instead they should have a new goal line.

Joking aside, I still can't believe it wasn't given. They should employ linesmen who can run faster.

Too much technoloy might spoil the beautiful game.

Barremans · Jan 6, 2005

I think a camera on the goal line can be one of the best improvements to the game. It's very simple thing that can be done and the fouth official can look at a monitor and decide if it's a goal or not. But many more technology isn't needed.

scharatz · Jan 6, 2005

Passion for *9* said:
Punishment for s.o. who wouldn't return a certain favour *I* have really tried my best

I have tried my best, honest! I went from "hate" to "dislike" for a day and that was as far as it got

I wonder... If Alex ferguson were to accept the goal, would the organization be able to give spurs the three points?

Well, he did accept it. But you don't need his opinion when the whole world saw it. As someone said, if they can use video evidence to issue bans for fouls missed by the ref, why can't they use the same thing for goals? Why not give Spurs 2 points? (and I would say that even if it was any other team... apart from 1

)

I think a camera on the goal line can be one of the best improvements to the game. It's very simple thing that can be done and the fouth official can look at a monitor and decide if it's a goal or not. But many more technology isn't needed.

It would be even easier to have some sort of a "scanner/x-ray/laser/you-name-it" system that detects the chip inside the ball and beeps/lights up when it had crossed the line. 2 advantages: 1) it wouldn't be blocked by a player standing on the goal line and 2) it would be based on a fact, not opinion

crazy4milan · Jan 7, 2005

God! How can't anybody seen that goal??
Depending on what kind of technology I would accept it...the scanner, etc thing that will detect the ball when it gets inside will be something I aprove(btw...in hockey they use that don't they?).
If it's TV technology, no thanks, it would delay the game, and football is not a slow sport + most of the sports the use that technology are very boring(well, that's an opinion).

r3dman · Jan 7, 2005

I'm all for technology! I think maybe Fifa shold ask maybe the fans too when they decide things of such things. Maybe a referendum?

Neeeaaaah!!! :tongue:

Anyway. I'll vote "yes" for technology in football on every site that asks me.

P.S.:My country's national football team (i.e.: Romania) was also robbed in Euro96 when Dorinel Munteanu scored against Bulgaria a goal similar to the one disscused in this thread. You can imagine how I felt!

A goal that wasn't (Time to use technology?)

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