Brazilian Football Thread

yagami7gnr · Nov 28, 2012

Senatore_M84 said:
kaka, robinho, elano, maicon was more than enough creativity. Fabiano is no sloach technically either, and michel bastos stapled his way at lb.

not enough quality options from bench, particularly for elano., who was unsung in the tactics. Hernanes could have possibly played his deputy....

Kaka? Yes. Binho? to certain extent Elano? He got injured in the group phase if I am correct. Maicon? Last great RB from Brazil but too far from creative. Fabiano? Good technically, but more of a poacher.

Creative = Dinho/Kaka/Rivaldo/Hernanes (somewhat)

When the backup of Kaka was Julio Baptista, you know that Brazil's squad was not up for the task of taking the wc2010.

yagami7gnr · Nov 28, 2012

SpartanMilan said:
how has Fabiano been playing recently? He might be the best choice to play CF at the moment

Daimao earned that position if next NT coach decides that he still wants a totem pole up front.

Sven · Nov 29, 2012

yagami7gnr said:
Kaka? Yes. Binho? to certain extent Elano? He got injured in the group phase if I am correct. Maicon? Last great RB from Brazil but too far from creative. Fabiano? Good technically, but more of a poacher.

Creative = Dinho/Kaka/Rivaldo/Hernanes (somewhat)

When the backup of Kaka was Julio Baptista, you know that Brazil's squad was not up for the task of taking the wc2010.

I agree with Senatore.
It was more than enough "creativity" considering Dunga's plan. If by creativity you mean a genius #10 capable of Hollywood through balls (vision actually) of course this player wasn't there.
But if you mean simply create plays, he had it as a collective work... And the front three specially did a fine job creating goals, and beautiful goals, cause all of them are skilled players and they linked up very well (somehow Elano too), and Dunga allowed them a lot of freedom and space.

His plan wasn't possession game and break defenses with geniuses passes though. It was all about fast transitions... Sit back and use the space to counter attack, wide play from the FBs, and set pieces (and he did a fine job there).

---

Anyway, the root of that is that Brazil simply doesn't produce players like Xabi Alonso or Pirlo or Kroos. The teams around here don't play like that. You got destroyers and you use them to give freedom for the attacking players to create.

Sven · Nov 29, 2012

Sage said:
Scolari to be named Brazil coach

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/11/28/uk-soccer-brazil-scolari-idUKBRE8AR0NQ20121128

I think it's official now.

And Parreira as technical director

crazy4milan · Nov 29, 2012

Sven said:
I think it's official now.

And Parreira as technical director

Thoughts?

Sven · Nov 29, 2012

crazy4milan said:
Thoughts?

Safe choice I guess.

He is a motivator and players respect him a lot. No tactical douche either. He will probably fix the defensive issues and go from there.

Don't think he will change the squad a lot though. He will keep the core... Probably change the DMs.

Not sure of what he will do tactically... Maybe he will consider a three man defense.

Senatore_M84 · Nov 29, 2012

Sven said:
Safe choice I guess.

He is a motivator and players respect him a lot. No tactical douche either. He will probably fix the defensive issues and go from there.

Don't think he will change the squad a lot though. He will keep the core... Probably change the DMs.

Not sure of what he will do tactically... Maybe he will consider a three man defense.

I believe 3 man is your best move with regards to personnel on both sides. Great sweeper. Good man marking CBS. Fbs defensively vulnerable but vital to attack.

My guess. On of kaka/ Oscar at am. Robinho, neymar, hulk for one forward spot. Unsure on other.

What would you do coach Sven?

Senatore_M84 · Nov 29, 2012

Also in terms of playing that Hollywood style short intricate passing football... Only Spain and maybe Germany/Italy have the personnel

You need 2way mids. Brazil's really got none. Just dms who are good at their job and ams with little to no tactical understanding to do anything but expose a team.

You could never use kaka, hernanes, oscar and a dm like say Italy use montolivo, Pirlo, DDR, marchisio or Germany use there's much less xavi, xabi Alonso, iniesta, busquets

Just not same characteristics

yagami7gnr · Nov 29, 2012

Sven said:
Safe choice I guess.

He is a motivator and players respect him a lot. No tactical douche either. He will probably fix the defensive issues and go from there.

Don't think he will change the squad a lot though. He will keep the core... Probably change the DMs.

Not sure of what he will do tactically... Maybe he will consider a three man defense.

Three man defense for Brazil? Interesting.
I think he will stay with a 4-4-2; though I think a 3-5-2 would benefit to the lack of complete RB/LB (meaning defense and offense ok).

Midfield would be interesting because if fit, Lucas Leiva is a must and Oscar too. I wonder what can Felipao do with the Neymar situation (MF or FW.) I prefer him as forward. The other three could be between Romulo, the two from Shaktar, Luiz Gustavo and to certain extent Ramires (though he has many mental lapses.) Up front they have Daimao, Hulk and Pato and maybe someone else. If they go for 3-5-2 D.Alves and Marcelo should be a must. Though, I like Alex Sandro from porto.

Senatore_M84 · Nov 29, 2012

Keep in mind scolari used a 3man in 2002. IMO it makes sense. Q is aside from thiago and luiz. Whose 3rd? Marcelo and Alves would thrive

crazy4milan · Nov 29, 2012

Brazil does have the fitting players for 3 men and I guess Felipao will want that back. Thiago as SW....taking advantage of the explosiveness of Marcelo/Dani Alves. I can see a sort of 3-4-1-2, like in the 02' WC, with Oscar/Kaka, Neymar a little back + Damiao.

No chance of Felipe Melo?

It would make Brazil by far the most interesting NT in the WC.

Sven · Nov 29, 2012

Senatore_M84 said:
I believe 3 man is your best move with regards to personnel on both sides. Great sweeper. Good man marking CBS. Fbs defensively vulnerable but vital to attack.

My guess. On of kaka/ Oscar at am. Robinho, neymar, hulk for one forward spot. Unsure on other.

What would you do coach Sven?

He got personal for the same 3-4-3 he used in 2002.

I would try a lopsided formation like Dunga. Get the best of Neymar on the left and you use a more retreated and better defensive player on the right, also to make space for Dani Alves to attack and cover him if needed.
Maybe Ramires for the Elano role, or even Hernanes. There's no problem in the DM role, plenty of players there (not enough to play Spain football of course).

Attack is a dilemma though... There's Oscar, Kaká, Neymar and Hulk all performed, but it's a very unbalanced team to fit them all and you also play striker-less. Drop one or maybe two.

Senatore_M84 said:
Also in terms of playing that Hollywood style short intricate passing football... Only Spain and maybe Germany/Italy have the personnel

You need 2way mids. Brazil's really got none. Just dms who are good at their job and ams with little to no tactical understanding to do anything but expose a team.

You could never use kaka, hernanes, oscar and a dm like say Italy use montolivo, Pirlo, DDR, marchisio or Germany use there's much less xavi, xabi Alonso, iniesta, busquets

Just not same characteristics

Yeah, pretty much.

A reason to hire a coach like Pep - he would impact positively the tactical culture in Brazil. The same reason not to hire him 18 months before the WC in Brazil, it's not time to change but the opposite - build a winner team using what is there.

crazy4milan said:
No chance of Felipe Melo? It would make Brazil by far the most interesting NT in the WC.

The guy is hated in Brazil, but if Felipão wants him he will call. He left Romário out of the WC in 2002 against all the media...
He doesn't give a shit to the public opinion.

Brazil got a lot of DM's though, hard fight for a place.

Senatore_M84 said:
Keep in mind scolari used a 3man in 2002. IMO it makes sense. Q is aside from thiago and luiz. Whose 3rd? Marcelo and Alves would thrive

He won Brazilian Cup this year with Palmeiras using a sort of 3-5-2... Converted Henrique into the same role Edmílson played in 2002 (this team got relegated in the League though :lol:

)

Alex is a good call (playing alongside Silva in PSG), Dedé, Castan... Or even Rever, Rhodolfo or some other playing in Brazil

yagami7gnr · Nov 29, 2012

I would try a lopsided formation like Dunga. Get the best of Neymar on the left and you use a more retreated and better defensive player on the right, also to make space for Dani Alves to attack and cover him if needed.
Maybe Ramires for the Elano role, or even Hernanes. There's no problem in the DM role, plenty of players there (not enough to play Spain football of course).

Get the best of Neymar? For me, it is more about of controlling Neymar. I agree that he should play on the left side. Same can be applied to Hulk. When they play together, it seems a competition between the 2 of them.
Dani Alves? Maybe a 3-5-2 would benefit him the most, if it is a 4-43 on the other hand, he is a complete door plus I do not understand why when playing for Brzail he wants to play in the middle so much.
Ramires for Elano role? Different kind of player, Elano was a better passer (so much better) while Ramires is more of a box-to-box MF. Hernanes would be better; though he reminds of Boa sometimes. (shooting first)
Dm role? if fit Lucas Leiva is the 'one'

Yeah, pretty much.

A reason to hire a coach like Pep - he would impact positively the tactical culture in Brazil. The same reason not to hire him 18 months before the WC in Brazil, it's not time to change but the opposite - build a winner team using what is there.

Different style of football; though, Brazil has to be somewhat more European. Less like Spain, more like Germany.

The guy is hated in Brazil, but if Felipão wants him he will call. He left Romário out of the WC in 2002 against all the media...
He doesn't give a shit to the public opinion.

Brazil got a lot of DM's though, hard fight for a place.

I do not know that. If he has learned to control his demons, he could be useful; otherwise, he is a bomb ready to explode. I think that Romulo (olympics) did pretty good in that tournament.

Senatore_M84 · Nov 29, 2012

From my eye. Most inform Brazilian dms are paulinho/melo. Would actually be a good combo IMO

Mion-Moura · Nov 29, 2012

Caution:Offtopic

Senatore_M84 · Nov 29, 2012

"If you do not want to pressure, you should work at Banco do Brasil, sit in the office and do nothing."

Sven · Nov 29, 2012

Senatore_M84 said:
From my eye. Most inform Brazilian dms are paulinho/melo. Would actually be a good combo IMO

Yeah, pretty much.
There's a lot of options there, Lucas, Sandro, two Fernandos, Elias, Romulo, Ralf, Arouca... Basically the same kind of players though. Brazil don't have deep lying playmakers right now.

But still good enough to build a team.

Mion-Lux said:
Caution:Offtopic

Senatore_M84 · Nov 29, 2012

crazy4milan said:
Brazil does have the fitting players for 3 men and I guess Felipao will want that back. Thiago as SW....taking advantage of the explosiveness of Marcelo/Dani Alves. I can see a sort of 3-4-1-2, like in the 02' WC, with Oscar/Kaka, Neymar a little back + Damiao.

No chance of Felipe Melo? It would make Brazil by far the most interesting NT in the WC.

the problem becomes, do you wanna pair neymar (22) + Damiao (24) or even pato (24)

tbh.... i almost think a neymar, kaka, hulk trident is best.... sort of what we used v. juve.... no natural cf..... though pato's not one either.

problem is fabiano will be 34 (not too old, but iunno), and CRs who are 25-32, are kind of flame outs (adriano) or never achieved (Fred, Jo)

ww · Nov 30, 2012

I'd play Cavalieri; Thiago Silva, Dedé, Castán, Marcelo; Paulinho, Fernando, Ramires/Hernanes; Kaká, Oscar; Luis Fabiano/Fred/Damião.

This team is amazing, Thiago Silva is fast enough to play like we used to see Carlo's SB playing, actually Stam is slower and did a great job at this position, and he was older than Thiago is now.

Thiago Silva, Castán, Dedé and Fernando would give enough defense consistence to allow Marcelo, Ramires and Paulinho to support the attack and since Ramires and Paulinho are very good at defending too, they'd cover each other too.

Ramires/Hernanes, Paulinho, Oscar and Kaká playing in the mid together is enough to beat Spain ball possession, they're all very skilled and very clever. Whoever would be the forward, he'd feel very blessed with the amount of chances that this mid would create and Luis Fabiano, Fred and Damião are 3 great options.

Neymar, Ronaldinho, Robinho or any player like this would be just a waste of space in the squad. They're all dumb and love to do useless tricks, I mean, if Brazil has these players that are very intelligent and skilled, why should the coach count on the individual plays of these assholes?

Players like these should play for teams that are really lacking of talent and inteligence, like Milan in the last years. I mean, Carlo had Pirlo, Serginho, Cafú, Seedorf, Kaká, Rui Costa, Inzaghi, Shevchenko... there were enough amazing players with teamplay mentality, we didn't really need an Ibra. Now in the last years, what did we have? We needed Ibra's individual plays to score, otherwise we'd be screwed and the same happened when we had Ronaldinho.

Now, Neymar is an even worse version of Ibra, that is one of the best individualists in the world, why the fuck should Brazil play an worse version of Ibra?

People talk about this piece of shit like he were the next one of a list that includes Careca, Romário, Ronaldo... he's not, he's just a Robinho with a better aim. Any organized defense can neutralize him, even mexican kids did it.

Sven · Nov 30, 2012

What Fernando is that? Porto or Gremio?

ww · Nov 30, 2012

Porto.

Jivara · Nov 30, 2012

Nobody considering Luiz Gustavo? I am shocked, even Bayern ignored him by spending 40m on Javi Martinez. Gustavo is incredibly underrated I would have him first choice DM actually, with Hernanes next to him or when you need more defensive resolve you can put someone more aggressive than Hernanes who I feel lost some of his defensive duties after he transformed into a total AM at Lazio under Reja.

ww · Nov 30, 2012

Jivara said:
Nobody considering Luiz Gustavo? I am shocked, even Bayern ignored him by spending 40m on Javi Martinez. Gustavo is incredibly underrated I would have him first choice DM actually, with Hernanes next to him or when you need more defensive resolve you can put someone more aggressive than Hernanes who I feel lost some of his defensive duties after he transformed into a total AM at Lazio under Reja.

Hernanes is actually a natural AM but he was very inconsistent in this position so Muricy did with him kinda of what Carlo did with Pirlo, then he became a world class player.

Now Hernanes is probably just confused of what he really is.

Ashish · Nov 30, 2012

Capitão Lugano said:
I'd play Cavalieri; Thiago Silva, Dedé, Castán, Marcelo; Paulinho, Fernando, Ramires/Hernanes; Kaká, Oscar; Luis Fabiano/Fred/Damião.

This team is amazing, Thiago Silva is fast enough to play like we used to see Carlo's SB playing, actually Stam is slower and did a great job at this position, and he was older than Thiago is now.

Thiago Silva, Castán, Dedé and Fernando would give enough defense consistence to allow Marcelo, Ramires and Paulinho to support the attack and since Ramires and Paulinho are very good at defending too, they'd cover each other too.

Ramires/Hernanes, Paulinho, Oscar and Kaká playing in the mid together is enough to beat Spain ball possession, they're all very skilled and very clever. Whoever would be the forward, he'd feel very blessed with the amount of chances that this mid would create and Luis Fabiano, Fred and Damião are 3 great options.

Neymar, Ronaldinho, Robinho or any player like this would be just a waste of space in the squad. They're all dumb and love to do useless tricks, I mean, if Brazil has these players that are very intelligent and skilled, why should the coach count on the individual plays of these assholes?

Players like these should play for teams that are really lacking of talent and inteligence, like Milan in the last years. I mean, Carlo had Pirlo, Serginho, Cafú, Seedorf, Kaká, Rui Costa, Inzaghi, Shevchenko... there were enough amazing players with teamplay mentality, we didn't really need an Ibra. Now in the last years, what did we have? We needed Ibra's individual plays to score, otherwise we'd be screwed and the same happened when we had Ronaldinho.

Now, Neymar is an even worse version of Ibra, that is one of the best individualists in the world, why the fuck should Brazil play an worse version of Ibra?

People talk about this piece of shit like he were the next one of a list that includes Careca, Romário, Ronaldo... he's not, he's just a Robinho with a better aim. Any organized defense can neutralize him, even mexican kids did it.

I love it esp the bolded part :lol:

yagami7gnr · Nov 30, 2012

Capitão Lugano said:
I'd play Cavalieri; Thiago Silva, Dedé, Castán, Marcelo; Paulinho, Fernando, Ramires/Hernanes; Kaká, Oscar; Luis Fabiano/Fred/Damião.

This team is amazing, Thiago Silva is fast enough to play like we used to see Carlo's SB playing, actually Stam is slower and did a great job at this position, and he was older than Thiago is now.

Thiago Silva, Castán, Dedé and Fernando would give enough defense consistence to allow Marcelo, Ramires and Paulinho to support the attack and since Ramires and Paulinho are very good at defending too, they'd cover each other too.

Ramires/Hernanes, Paulinho, Oscar and Kaká playing in the mid together is enough to beat Spain ball possession, they're all very skilled and very clever. Whoever would be the forward, he'd feel very blessed with the amount of chances that this mid would create and Luis Fabiano, Fred and Damião are 3 great options.

Neymar, Ronaldinho, Robinho or any player like this would be just a waste of space in the squad. They're all dumb and love to do useless tricks, I mean, if Brazil has these players that are very intelligent and skilled, why should the coach count on the individual plays of these assholes?

Players like these should play for teams that are really lacking of talent and inteligence, like Milan in the last years. I mean, Carlo had Pirlo, Serginho, Cafú, Seedorf, Kaká, Rui Costa, Inzaghi, Shevchenko... there were enough amazing players with teamplay mentality, we didn't really need an Ibra. Now in the last years, what did we have? We needed Ibra's individual plays to score, otherwise we'd be screwed and the same happened when we had Ronaldinho.

Now, Neymar is an even worse version of Ibra, that is one of the best individualists in the world, why the fuck should Brazil play an worse version of Ibra?

People talk about this piece of shit like he were the next one of a list that includes Careca, Romário, Ronaldo... he's not, he's just a Robinho with a better aim. Any organized defense can neutralize him, even mexican kids did it.

Your lineup is pretty good though as I said if Lucas Leiva is fit, he should the starter. He was the one that united midfield and defense. Luis Fabiano? if he still got it, maybe. Also, somebody mentioned Luiz Gustavo who may need to play for Bayern if he wants a chance for the world cup; though, he was pretty good. The two from Shaktar also deserve a chance.

The neymar statement is pretty accurate. The kid is obviously talented; however, he is screwing everybody that has potential. Everything has to be about him.

Australiano1980 · Nov 30, 2012

dede

AC Kid · Nov 30, 2012

If Scolari is going to use 3 men defense:

............................Neymar..............................Kaka'/Hulk....................

.............................................Oscar/Kaka'..........................................

Marcelo.............Paulinho.......Ramires/Melo(fucking hate him).......D.Alves

.............................Luiz........T.Silva........Dede/Castan.....................

ww · Nov 30, 2012

yagami7gnr said:
Your lineup is pretty good though as I said if Lucas Leiva is fit, he should the starter. He was the one that united midfield and defense. Luis Fabiano? if he still got it, maybe. Also, somebody mentioned Luiz Gustavo who may need to play for Bayern if he wants a chance for the world cup; though, he was pretty good. The two from Shaktar also deserve a chance.

The neymar statement is pretty accurate. The kid is obviously talented; however, he is screwing everybody that has potential. Everything has to be about him.

I think that I should had putted Fernando/Luiz Gustavo/Lucas/Any another DM, just like I did with the forwards. Brazil needs someone with the main responsability to strike everyone that tries to pass the midfield and one of them must do it.

Brazil shouldn't be playing like shit like it has been playing, there're world class players to every position. Mano insisted on that dumb attack formed by Hulk and Neymar, with Oscar needing to control all the plays by himself and touch balls with individualists while Damião was like... "GIVE ME THE BALLLLLLLLL WHY NO ONE GIVES ME THE BALLLLLLL????????"

I actually like Hulk, but he's great for teams that play with wingers and Brazil doesn't need it, there are a lot of inteligent and skilled players to play in the mid and Kaká is still one of the best trequartistas in the world. I've been saying it for a while and I think that I proved to be right because the team got way better when Mano putted on Paulinho, Oscar and Kaká together.

I'd carry Hulk to the World Cup and use him just like Carlo used Serginho, but I'd do it on the right wing.

Anyway, I think that Felipão is going to do what AC Kid said.

Sven · Dec 1, 2012

Internacional just need to make it official, but Dunga will be the next coach.
Better late than never, but it's good to see him back to football.

Lionheart · Dec 1, 2012

Australiano1980 said:
dede

looks like a crackhead

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