Cesc Fabregas

Mr.Milanista said:

LOL ofcourse he does and I still think he wants to come here.

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Yea..just being funny..haha..but you got to think about it like this also..all his fellow country men at barca are doing the same thing that T.33.binho.pato. Are doing with ganso..they are having conversations trying to tempt the player..plenty of barca players are trying to lure fab to come play with them..which sometimes is enough to get a player to move..especially if they don't wanna stay at the club they are presently are at..

Good post Fiero but you are missing one point. He wouldnt warm the bench in Barca.

If Barca knew they can get him for 35- 45, they would pull out of the Rossi deal and move for Cesc. Cesc would play in midfield and Iniesta would take Pedro's spot as he played a few years ago.

I still dont understand Barca's move for Rossi when you have the inexpensive Pedro who does perfectly what they want. Even Villa is an extravagant paperweight most games.

Master Smurf said:

Good post Fiero but you are missing one point. He wouldnt warm the bench in Barca.

If Barca knew they can get him for 35- 45, they would pull out of the Rossi deal and move for Cesc. Cesc would play in midfield and Iniesta would take Pedro's spot as he played a few years ago.

I still dont understand Barca's move for Rossi when you have the inexpensive Pedro who does perfectly what they want. Even Villa is an extravagant paperweight most games.

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Very true..but barca did just get I believe 60 mill for winning CL so they have the cash to spend on what they want but not need..

Excellent post, Fiero

I'll add one argument from another thread. Barca have won 3 league titles and CL twice in the last 3 years. Going there now, how can you succeed? If you win everything, you're just repeating what the team already has done. If you don't win, your arrival is a failure. So there is no up side. Besides, is there room for him on the Barca midfield? Not really.

Milan, on the other hand, is a team rising from the ashes. Building something new and aiming for Europe. Coming here and be part of starting this new era and winning CL, now that's something else.

Cesc is still young. If he's smart he comes here now, and then finishes his career in Barca, when Xavi quits.

fredrik9 said:

Milan, on the other hand, is a team rising from the ashes. Building something new and aiming for Europe. Coming here and be part of starting this new era and winning CL, now that's something else.

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It's Milan, not Nottingham Forest.

Absolutely great post FIERO!!

Great post Fiero. Enjoyed reading that.

Fiero said:

First of all, let's see why Fabregas would want to leave Arsenal. He is the club captain, a fan favorite, Arsene Wenger is like a father to him, and he's been there since he was a teenager so he's completely settled and knows the place inside out. Why would he want to leave then? Quite simply to win trophies. Fabregas is an ambitious footballer, and he knows that he is a world class individual that is capable of winning big things. Arsenal are just stopping his progress. He has constantly whined about the team's failure to win any silverware and the players' and the club's mentality.

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Please show me where Fabregas has "constantly whined" about anything. Also, explain to me how Arsenal is "stopping his progress." He went from being an inconsistent 18-year-old with loads of promise to being a world class midfielder at Arsenal.

But even if he wants to leave, why would Arsenal let him go? Wenger is forced to sell this time. Just think of all the sagas of before, like Ronaldo to Madrid, Kaka to Madrid, etc. Convincing players to stay only works for a certain period of time. Fabregas had already made his mind up, and I can't see anything that would make him change his mind this season. Arsenal still won zero trophies, they once again lost to his beloved Barcelona, and other key players like Nasri, Clichy and Arshavin want to leave. While Wenger does nothing to strengthen the team, failing to sign proper defenders or a reliable goalkeeper, among other things. Also, I remember there were tons of reports that Wenger convinced Fabregas to stay one more season for him, kind of like Ronaldo and SAF. Fabregas did it once, he won't do it again.

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What makes you think Wenger is forced to sell? Arsenal has a new majority owner who has promised to boost the transfer budget. Last fall the club paid off its debt surrounding the development at the site of the old Highbury stadium and they're now profiting from the site. The sale of 80 apartments alone should bring them an extra 30 million pounds on the books this year. And they're further developing opposite the Emirates stadium. Plus they're making money hand over fist through increased attendance at the new stadium. Arsenal is actually one of the English clubs that is in the best financial position right now.

And how do you know that Cesc Fabregas has made up his mind to leave or anything else that is in his mind? Did you move a filing cabinet and find a portal into his mind like John Cusack in Being John Malkovich?

Also Arsenal already have his replacement ready and tested, Jack Wilshere. He has huge potential and already proved his quality this season. Selling Fabregas to give Wilshere room to grow would seem like when Wenger sold Vieira to Juve to give Fabregas his chance. Remember the summer before it Wenger rejected Madrid, similar to the Barcelona saga last season, only to allow Vieira to leave to Juventus a year later.

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Barcelona has young players who could replace Messi. That doesn't mean they want to sell him. And wouldn't having Fabregas playing in the same midfield with young Jack be better than having only the young guy? They already went through growing pains with Fabregas. Now that he's developed into a truly World Class player you think the thing to do is to sell him and start over with somebody else? That makes no sense at all. Oh, and the sale of Viera exactly coincided with the start of Arsenal's trophyless run.

But even if he leaves, wouldn't he go to Barcelona? No. Of course he loves Barcelona, but a move to Barcelona would be the worst thing that could happen to both parties, and I think they both know that. For Barcelona, they don't have sufficient funds, especially since they are close to spending 30m on Rossi. Also, if they sign Fabregas it would mean Thiago would leave, as his father revealed. So why would they want to spend 30m on Fabregas who will come to warm the bench and earn bigger wages than Thiago while demanding playtime?

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So Barcelona can't afford him -- even after winning the Champions League boosted them with a £110 million windfall -- but Milan can? Hmmmm.

And by the way, Cesc Fabregas' father -- who is even more like a father to him than Wenger -- recently reiterated that the ONLY club that his son would consider leaving Arsenal to join would be Barcelona.

As for Fabregas, he is not stupid. He loves Barcelona for sure, but football is his profession. Why would he want to join Barcelona when he will most likely warm the bench? So instead of being a bench player in the NT, he'll become a bit part player by warming the bench in his club as well. No way will he start over Xavi or Iniesta or Busquetes. This isn't meant to insult his quality, but Xavi is the world's best at his position, and so is Iniesta. Plus they are certainties at their positions. Iniesta won't play at left wing, because they have Villa playing there and are about to sign Rossi. Busquetes is vital for Barcelona as the anchor in midfield, and even Mascherano, who is one of the best in the world at his position, has been forced to play out of his position or stay at the bench by Busquetes. So this leaves only the bench for Fabregas, unless Pep decides to change his formation, which quite frankly isn't even an option.

So I'm pretty sure that both Barcelona and Fabregas want to be together, just at the right time, which surely isn't now. Maybe in a couple of years after Xavi ages and starts declining, Cesc could arrive to be his heir. But right now, I just don't see Barca spending 30m on a player to warm the bench, especially when they have other expensive targets like Rossi. I don't see Fabregas leaving Arsenal either to go sit alongside his idol Guardiola by the touchline.

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So is Rossi guaranteed a starting role for Barcelona? If not, why would he go there any more than Fabregas? Rossi didn't even grow up as a Barca fan as did Cesc (Rossi, in fact, grew up in New Jersey as a Milan fan) nor did he come from the Barcelona youth system as Cesc did. So it seems to me that Cesc would have more reason to fight for a spot at Barcelona than would Rossi -- unless maybe playing for Barcelona and having the best chance of any club to continue winning both domestically and in the Champions League might be a draw.

Also, you're assuming that Cesc Fabregas will be leaving Arsenal. That's a huge assumption. I've heard no indication from him that he wanted to leave Arsenal -- quite the opposite, in fact. You're just making assumptions based on crappy paper talk.

Even then, why would he join Milan? Fabregas has said countless of times before that his favorite team in Italy is Milan. He said the club is very classy and he loves the San Siro, and for sure it would be a dream to play there.

I remember clearly he said in Italy he'll only play for Milan, which is great. Also a major reason why he wants to leave Arsenal is to win trophies, now I remember he congratulated Flamini on twitter on winning the league, he said it was his first ever trophy. I'm sure he'll have that in his mind thinking how when Flamini dumped Arsenal, he finally won a real trophy and next season the club is even targeting the Champions League, unlike Arsenal who are happy with a top four finish in the EPL.

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Countless times? Really? I vaguely recall him giving a polite answer to a question posed to him regarding Milan at one time, but I don't recall him going on about it or talking about playing for Milan all the time. Also, you're again assuming that Cesc wants to leave Arsenal and you're also assuming that Arsenal has no ambition. Both are huge assumptions.

Okay, but does Milan even need him? Milan, after selling Pirlo, are in desperate need of a creative midfielder who could lay on the assists. We are talking about a team that wants to win, or at least fight for the Champions League. This was clearly obvious from Galliani's, Ibra's, and Thiago Silva's comments in the press. Also, Berlusconi said he's willing to spend to bring a champion. Therefore, no way in hell will our star signing be Alex Witsel or Asamoah or even Montolivo.

Now as a player I don't know how anyone wouldn't want him in Milan. Already world class, would be our best midfielder by a mile, and has characteristics that we so desperately need. If we could only sign one player for next season, no doubt I would want Fabregas. Forget Pastore, Hamsik, Asamoah, Ganso, and the rest. Fabregas is Pirlo's best passing and shooting days mixed with youth, ambition, leadership, and much better defensive capabilities. He could be the one missing piece of the puzzle for us to go further in Europe. We have Seedorf, Boateng, and even Robinho and Cassano as players who could fill in as trequartisti, but we have no creative, ball playing center midfielder. Fabregas is a necessity. Fabregas is a priority.

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Who said they would not want Fabregas to play for Milan? I'd like for Messi to play for Milan too, but I'm pretty confident it's never going to happen (certainly not any time soon). It's a matter of being realistic about the situation and not going to great lengths to concoct a storyline that fits with what you personally want rather than what's likely to actually happen.

A necessity? Absolutely not. No player is absolutely necessary. There are always a number of players who can do the job. Obviously, if no other player could come close to matching Cesc Fabregas then he wouldn't have the trouble finding playing time at Barcelona that you seem to think he would have. You're trying to play both ends against the middle here. On one hand you dismiss his ability to find time in the Barcelona team, then you act as though there is no other player like him. A priority? Apparently not since Milan says they won't be buying him.

Alright. Let's say he wants us and we want him, could we even afford him? About the price, for sure the 60m bullshit is a joke. How many players cost that much? I bet Fabregas would be sold for between 25 and 30 million, maybe 35 million at max. Do you think a Milan that has just won the scudetto and wants to fight for the Champions League isn't capable of spending 30 million on its star signing? We have that kind of money. It's not too much. The most important thing is that Fabregas picks us from the rest of the clubs (Barcelona, Man City, Inter), which I'm sure he would.

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Liverpool paid £35 million for Andy Carroll. Chelsea paid £50 million for Fernando Torres. Do you seriously think that Arsenal, one of the more financially astute clubs, is really going to let Cesc Fabregas -- who they have under contract until 2015 -- go for less than Andy Carroll? When you deal with English clubs you pay a premium unless you're targeting a player in a special situation such as Robinho.

Milan values its players, we treat them like family. Sheva wanted to go to Chelsea, he was gone. Kaka wanted Real, sold in an instant. Never mind that they were our star players, and that our lives depended on them. Milan doesn't stand in the way of it's players, period. So if Fabregas one day wants to join Barcelona, it will be no problem. So it wouldn't be like joining Real Madrid or something which would completely destroy the Barcelona option for the future.

This way everybody goes home a winner. Milan get its desired champion, Fabregas wins trophies then joins Barcelona when he has a role to play, and Arsene proves to the world that his Economics degree was money well spent. Meanwhile, getting a chance to start Wilshere and Ramsey in midfield and watch them grow into fine footballers who wouldn't win a trophy until they dump his shithole of a club.

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So you want to rent Fabregas for a couple of years before he moves to Barcelona? Why? He's a fantastic player, but there are other fantastic players. I would rather have one who would commit to Milan for the long term.

All you've done here is to cherry pick from rumors and add your own assumptions to create a narrative that allows you to believe what you want to believe. You're grasping for straws.

But Rick - Its widely know Cesc wanted to leave last summer and this summer it seems everyone wants to get out of Arsenal because anyone that follows football should know Arsenal is not about winning but about fattening their wallets.

That is why they continue to buy cheap and never really augment the team with sure fire stars to put them over the top. I think its mostly Wenger's ego but its obvious that Arsenal's management see the money rolling in and could care less about trophies or Wenger would have gone a few years ago.

You think players want to continue every year being a nearly team and then cant get the salary they want when they reach a certain level.

City will surpass Arsenal next year and Liverpool the next (if they buy properly)

Sonny.Bill.Williams said:

meant 30 mil for pastore and 30mil Nesta replacement seeing as though gas might cost us 60

I know english is not your first language so I'll let it slide

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This makes even less sense

Rick very well said on the matter..very valid points my friend.

Rick said:

Please show me where Fabregas has "constantly whined" about anything. Also, explain to me how Arsenal is "stopping his progress." He went from being an inconsistent 18-year-old with loads of promise to being a world class midfielder at Arsenal.

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Yes because 18 year olds are consistent and world class right? Arsenal owe Fabregas as much as Fabregas owes them. They gave him room to develop and he responded by world class performances on the pitch and by staying loyal to them while many others have jumped ship.

You never saw him whine? Surpising since you seem to claim to know a lot about Fabregas and Arsenal. I'm not interested in digging up old quotes, maybe someone could help me up. But it's well documented in the media how Fabregas always complain about Arsenal winning shit and about the team's loser mentality, and that he wants to win trophies.

Rick said:

What makes you think Wenger is forced to sell? Arsenal has a new majority owner who has promised to boost the transfer budget. Last fall the club paid off its debt surrounding the development at the site of the old Highbury stadium and they're now profiting from the site. The sale of 80 apartments alone should bring them an extra 30 million pounds on the books this year. And they're further developing opposite the Emirates stadium. Plus they're making money hand over fist through increased attendance at the new stadium. Arsenal is actually one of the English clubs that is in the best financial position right now.

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I wasn't speaking financially. Because if we speak financially, Arsenal never need to sell. Arsenal are one of the richest club in the world. This was the same situation last year as well, and remind me, how much did they spend in the transfer market? Who did they purchase? Oh yeah that's right, Squillaci, Koscielny, and mmm... who else? Chamakh on a bosman?

Point is every year Wenger has money to spend, but he doesn't spend it. Last year they wanted a GK and a top defender to fight for trophies, they got neither when they had the money.

Rick said:

And how do you know that Cesc Fabregas has made up his mind to leave or anything else that is in his mind? Did you move a filing cabinet and find a portal into his mind like John Cusack in Being John Malkovich?

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How do you know Fabregas made up his mind to stay?

Rick said:

Barcelona has young players who could replace Messi. That doesn't mean they want to sell him. And wouldn't having Fabregas playing in the same midfield with young Jack be better than having only the young guy? They already went through growing pains with Fabregas. Now that he's developed into a truly World Class player you think the thing to do is to sell him and start over with somebody else? That makes no sense at all. Oh, and the sale of Viera exactly coincided with the start of Arsenal's trophyless run.

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Yes because Arsenal never sell their stars to replace them with youngsters. Wait, what? Vieira, Henry, Ljungberg, Pires, Gallas, Hleb, etc... see the pattern?

Wenger developed Vieira, Henry and the rest into world class players, then sold them in favor of youngsters. Fabregas isn't old but he's sick of his years in football passing by without winning shit. I'm sure it wouldn't be the end of the world for Wenger if he sells him for some good money, and his replacement is already ready in Jack Wilshere. Didn't he do that in the past tons of times? Yes. Why wouldn't he do it again?

Rick said:

So Barcelona can't afford him -- even after winning the Champions League boosted them with a £110 million windfall -- but Milan can? Hmmmm.

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Oh. Okay. I'm sorry, I just seem to remember that Barcelona took a 100m+ loan last year to make up for some of their debts, and they couldn't afford Fabregas last season. Even Rossell when he got elected said that the club is struggling financially and that he won't spend crazily in the market. Their top targets are either Rossi and Aguero who will cost 30m and 40 or 45m respectively. Would they have enough money left after that to spend on Fabregas, to join Mascherano on the bench?

Milan can't afford a rich transfer? Didn't we have a billionaire owner? Didn't he promise to sign either one or two champions to let the team fight for the Champions League? Yes, I remember well. I even remember he promised Ibra on the phone before he signed that he'll build him a team that wins the Champions League, isn't that why Ibra agreed to join us?

I laugh at people who say Milan can't afford Fabregas, especially those that have followed Milan for a long time. Didn't Berlusconi sign Rui Costa and Inzaghi in the same transfer market? Didn't he sign a Nesta in his prime from his beloved Lazio were he was captain? This move alone is pure gold. It's like a De Rossi, Totti, Del Piero, Gerrard, Terry or Lampard transfer at their prime, only better.

Last season alone we signed Ibra for 24m and Robinho for 18m. That was after 3 trophyless seasons, and 6 years without a scudetto. You think we can't afford Fabregas after winning the scudetto and targeting the Champions League? I laugh.

Rick said:

And by the way, Cesc Fabregas' father -- who is even more like a father to him than Wenger -- recently reiterated that the ONLY club that his son would consider leaving Arsenal to join would be Barcelona.

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Hey, Fabregas said he'd play for Real or Milan as well, the quote was posted above by some member.

Rick said:

So is Rossi guaranteed a starting role for Barcelona? If not, why would he go there any more than Fabregas? Rossi didn't even grow up as a Barca fan as did Cesc (Rossi, in fact, grew up in New Jersey as a Milan fan) nor did he come from the Barcelona youth system as Cesc did. So it seems to me that Cesc would have more reason to fight for a spot at Barcelona than would Rossi -- unless maybe playing for Barcelona and having the best chance of any club to continue winning both domestically and in the Champions League might be a draw.

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Is Rossi as big of a player as Fabregas? Of course not. Fabregas is captain of Arsenal, while Rossi is just a Villareal player. So would Rossi jump at the chance to join a much bigger club? Sure. But why would Fabregas leave Arsenal where he is captain, untouchable, and a fan favorite to join Barcelona were he won't start regularly? The only reason he'd leave Arsenal is for trophies, because that's the only thing Arsenal can't offer him.

Barcelona and Milan are targeting trophies. With Barcelona he gets to sit on the bench, with Milan he has a star role. As a player who isn't even in his mid 20s yet, which option do you think he'd pick?

Rick said:

Also, you're assuming that Cesc Fabregas will be leaving Arsenal. That's a huge assumption. I've heard no indication from him that he wanted to leave Arsenal -- quite the opposite, in fact. You're just making assumptions based on crappy paper talk.

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Yeah, if I think about it I've heard no indication from Fabregas that he wanted to leave as well. The Barca saga last season was pure speculation and crappy paper talk. Wait, didn't he say he wanted to leave to win trophies? Yes he did. Did Arsenal win anything? No. Did Barca and his friends Pique and Puyol win anything? Yes. Did Milan and his friend Flamini win anything? Yes.

Rick said:

Countless times? Really? I vaguely recall him giving a polite answer to a question posed to him regarding Milan at one time, but I don't recall him going on about it or talking about playing for Milan all the time. Also, you're again assuming that Cesc wants to leave Arsenal and you're also assuming that Arsenal has no ambition. Both are huge assumptions.

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Yes Arsenal are very ambitious. Nasri, Denilson, Arshavin, Clichy, and Bendtner want to leave. Who are they linked with? Gary Cahill? What did they achieve last season? 4th place in the EPL? They aren't even in the Champions League group stage yet.

Milan want the Champions League. Arsenal are happy with making profits and 4th place. If they were ambitious wouldn't they be linked with big names? Wouldn't they keep their stars? Wouldn't they bring experienced players instead of youthful chokers?

Arsenal are anything but ambitious. United are strong and strengthening, Chelsea are consider finishing 2nd failure and are making an overhaul to come back stronger, City are spending crazy money and actually won a trophy and qualified straight to CL, and next year they'll be even better, Liverpool are back with Dalglish and are targeting Europe next season, while even Spurs are strengthening with Redknapp while Arsenal are still the same. Some choker kids team that's made up of African and French under 24 players.

Rick said:

Who said they would not want Fabregas to play for Milan? I'd like for Messi to play for Milan too, but I'm pretty confident it's never going to happen (certainly not any time soon). It's a matter of being realistic about the situation and not going to great lengths to concoct a storyline that fits with what you personally want rather than what's likely to actually happen.

A necessity? Absolutely not. No player is absolutely necessary. There are always a number of players who can do the job. Obviously, if no other player could come close to matching Cesc Fabregas then he wouldn't have the trouble finding playing time at Barcelona that you seem to think he would have. You're trying to play both ends against the middle here. On one hand you dismiss his ability to find time in the Barcelona team, then you act as though there is no other player like him. A priority? Apparently not since Milan says they won't be buying him.

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Did you actually understand what I said? Do you think any player on the planet would start ahead of Xavi or Iniesta? No. Fabregas is a great great player, but he isn't on Xavi or Iniesta's level, because they are two of the best players in the world currently. Does that downgrade from his ability? Of course not.

Name me one player in the world who could offer us what Fabregas would. There isn't. Xavi? He's glued to Barcelona. Alonso? He's at Madrid. Who else is left? No one. And based on the fact that our top priority is a creative center midfielder, then yes, Fabregas is a priority.

Rick said:

Liverpool paid £35 million for Andy Carroll. Chelsea paid £50 million for Fernando Torres. Do you seriously think that Arsenal, one of the more financially astute clubs, is really going to let Cesc Fabregas -- who they have under contract until 2015 -- go for less than Andy Carroll? When you deal with English clubs you pay a premium unless you're targeting a player in a special situation such as Robinho.

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Liverpool paid that kind of money for Carroll firstly because they're idiots, and secondly, because it was deadline day in the market. Newcastle were at the point of power.

Remember, both transfers were mid-season. That's very different than in the summer. In the summer, there's enough time to find a replacement, and the season hadn't already started. So new players have time to gel in pre-season and settle with the team. While in January, it's in the middle of the season, and most teams aren't prepared to sell their star players. So it was completely understandable for Liverpool, a club that were in need of money, sold their star player at a ridiculous price.

Plus you are mentioning two of the most expensive transfers in history as an example. But hey, for how much did we sign Ibrahimovic? Oh yes I remember, 24m.

Rick said:

So you want to rent Fabregas for a couple of years before he moves to Barcelona? Why? He's a fantastic player, but there are other fantastic players. I would rather have one who would commit to Milan for the long term.

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Hey I'd rather have a world class player who's for free and already experienced. You see what I did there? It's not like we want to buy Fabregas then sell him, but is there any other better option than him? No.

Rick said:

All you've done here is to cherry pick from rumors and add your own assumptions to create a narrative that allows you to believe what you want to believe. You're grasping for straws.

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Nope. I've just mentioned facts, and based my assumptions on the facts we all know. What you did was dismiss my assumptions based on your assumptions. This doesn't change the facts, which my assumptions were built on. You're just scared to believe that we might end up signing Fabregas in fear of disappointment.

Rick said:

Please show me where Fabregas has "constantly whined" about anything. Also, explain to me how Arsenal is "stopping his progress." He went from being an inconsistent 18-year-old with loads of promise to being a world class midfielder at Arsenal.

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So being worldclass is the end for a footballer? he won nothing big on club level till now, other than the PL in his first insignificant season. hell yeah, he whined about arsenal needing to spend and their lack of trophies, and most importantly their winning mentality

What makes you think Wenger is forced to sell? Arsenal has a new majority owner who has promised to boost the transfer budget. Last fall the club paid off its debt surrounding the development at the site of the old Highbury stadium and they're now profiting from the site. The sale of 80 apartments alone should bring them an extra 30 million pounds on the books this year. And they're further developing opposite the Emirates stadium. Plus they're making money hand over fist through increased attendance at the new stadium. Arsenal is actually one of the English clubs that is in the best financial position right now.

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Being forced to sell doesnt mean it has to be financial reasons
Players wanting to leave is another reason, be it wanting a new challenge, or winning trophies.

Barcelona has young players who could replace Messi. That doesn't mean they want to sell him. And wouldn't having Fabregas playing in the same midfield with young Jack be better than having only the young guy? They already went through growing pains with Fabregas. Now that he's developed into a truly World Class player you think the thing to do is to sell him and start over with somebody else? That makes no sense at all. Oh, and the sale of Viera exactly coincided with the start of Arsenal's trophyless run.

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that said, then why do they have to sell Henry and get stuck with van persie, the glassman, bendtner and others average strikers.

So Barcelona can't afford him -- even after winning the Champions League boosted them with a £110 million windfall -- but Milan can? Hmmmm.

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Barcelona- Public-owned, Milan- Berlu-owned. and the freaking fact that they are winning countless trophies for the past few years, and they are still in the debt, doesnt that that tell you they are still freaking losing money elsewhere?

And by the way, Cesc Fabregas' father -- who is even more like a father to him than Wenger -- recently reiterated that the ONLY club that his son would consider leaving Arsenal to join would be Barcelona.

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your dad decides the job you take? and the girl you date? mine doesnt, i guess cesc is old enough, and some say " mature " enough to decide for himself

So is Rossi guaranteed a starting role for Barcelona? If not, why would he go there any more than Fabregas? Rossi didn't even grow up as a Barca fan as did Cesc (Rossi, in fact, grew up in New Jersey as a Milan fan) nor did he come from the Barcelona youth system as Cesc did. So it seems to me that Cesc would have more reason to fight for a spot at Barcelona than would Rossi -- unless maybe playing for Barcelona and having the best chance of any club to continue winning both domestically and in the Champions League might be a draw.

Also, you're assuming that Cesc Fabregas will be leaving Arsenal. That's a huge assumption. I've heard no indication from him that he wanted to leave Arsenal -- quite the opposite, in fact. You're just making assumptions based on crappy paper talk.



Countless times? Really? I vaguely recall him giving a polite answer to a question posed to him regarding Milan at one time, but I don't recall him going on about it or talking about playing for Milan all the time. Also, you're again assuming that Cesc wants to leave Arsenal and you're also assuming that Arsenal has no ambition. Both are huge assumptions.

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hell yeah, i can safely say, arsenal has no ambition. i bet cesc will wanna leave. they convinced cesc to stay for another season, and they failed him. whats more to be done? convincing him for another season? fabregas is a nice guy, even if he wants to leave, i doubt he will speak in the public about it.

A necessity? Absolutely not. No player is absolutely necessary. There are always a number of players who can do the job. Obviously, if no other player could come close to matching Cesc Fabregas then he wouldn't have the trouble finding playing time at Barcelona that you seem to think he would have. You're trying to play both ends against the middle here. On one hand you dismiss his ability to find time in the Barcelona team, then you act as though there is no other player like him. A priority? Apparently not since Milan says they won't be buying him

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of course he isnt a necessity. but where do you find a player that is desperate to win trophies, worldclass, able to play in LCM, passing skills that can rival pirlo's, openly spoken about his admiration for Milan and the stadium, that is also within Milan's reach?

The day fab comea to milan is the day il eat my hat

How about stick it up your ass ?

President Joey said:

How about stick it up your ass ?

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President Joey said:

How about stick it up your ass ?

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Ha ha ha.

Wait a minute, a hat? Are you 80?

Some very good points made on both sides. Barcelona have made money, no doubt, but there were reports they took out over a 100 million to cover a large chunk of debt - like Fiero mentioned. I think in the end it'll depend on what Barcelona do.

If they decide that he's their main target then they'll get him. If they decide to take a striker instead then it's a perfect opportunity for Milan to sneak in and snap up Fabregas. The ironic thing is they had a striker in Ibra, who was banging in goals for them until an injury. Since then they've signed Villa, who they paid far too much for (if you ask me, David Silva is the one who made him look good) and he's just not been what they'd hoped.

Anyway, back on track: if they were to sign him then they'd need to make changes to their midfield and I just don't think Pep would be prepared to do that. He's got a system that is proven to work; why would anyone in their right mind change it? So with that in mind Fabregas would be on the bench for a majority of the season and while we've seen other people (stupidly) sign with Madrid and Barca and then sit on the bench... I just don't see Fabregas being content with that. If he wants to come to a team and not only play but win something meaningful, then we're the right option for him, like others have already said. There's always time to go to Barcelona but it's not right now.

On the flipside: if he does go then that means Thiago Alcantara is going to want to leave. Obviously we should take a stab.

Catalan shit press have Cesc on their front pages every day.

The big story today is... what does this tweet mean?

"Un dia un amigo me mando esta foto y creo q tiene toda la razon. Confio en ello, trabajo para ello."


http://twitter.com/cesc4official

I don't understand what the fuss is all about... no one is saying that Cesc is 100% a Milan player. But it's certainly not a mission impossible, it could happen if Berlu makes his mind up and tells Galliani to go and get him... we all know what that duo can produce.

TS33 said:

Anyway, back on track: if they were to sign him then they'd need to make changes to their midfield and I just don't think Pep would be prepared to do that. He's got a system that is proven to work; why would anyone in their right mind change it? So with that in mind Fabregas would be on the bench for a majority of the season and while we've seen other people (stupidly) sign with Madrid and Barca and then sit on the bench...

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The one thing they could do is bench/ditch Pedro. Move Iniesta up in the field and let Cesc take his position.

But how stupid would that be. Only to "bring Cesc home".

fredrik9 said:

Catalan shit press have Cesc on their front pages every day.

The big story today is... what does this tweet mean?

"Un dia un amigo me mando esta foto y creo q tiene toda la razon. Confio en ello, trabajo para ello."

http://twitter.com/cesc4official

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The words in bold means " THE BEST IS YET TO COME " HELL YEAH

fredrik9 said:

The one thing they could do is bench/ditch Pedro. Move Iniesta up in the field and let Cesc take his position.

But how stupid would that be. Only to "bring Cesc home".

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I can't see that happening, to be honest. Pep seems like the kind of coach that's more than satisfied with Pedro's input. He does what is required of him and allows for Messi to cruise around when/where needed.

The whole situation of Barcelona whining for Fabregas benefits neither of them really. Barca has no vacancies and Fabregas is too good to play second fiddle. We're definitely in a good position; it just depends on how much we're willing to do to get him.

i want a CL trophy. i'd be willing to do alot

Fiero said:

Yes because 18 year olds are consistent and world class right? Arsenal owe Fabregas as much as Fabregas owes them. They gave him room to develop and he responded by world class performances on the pitch and by staying loyal to them while many others have jumped ship.

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You're the one who is suggesting that Arsenal should sell their team captain and best player to build again around another teenager (Wilshere). And you've only just helped to make my point that you were wrong about Arsenal having blocked Cesc's progress. Either he was as good as a teenager as he is now or he has made great progress. You can't have it both ways.

You never saw him whine? Surpising since you seem to claim to know a lot about Fabregas and Arsenal. I'm not interested in digging up old quotes, maybe someone could help me up. But it's well documented in the media how Fabregas always complain about Arsenal winning shit and about the team's loser mentality, and that he wants to win trophies.

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Expressing frustration a time or two is hardly the same as "constantly whining." And when Fabregas spoke a couple of months ago about the team not having a winning mentality, he was not speaking of Arsenal as a club, but rather of the squad as now composed with a lot of inexperienced players. In, fact, if you take his comments in context, they were actually very pro-Arsenal and he actually sounded like someone who was certainly in no hurry to leave Arsenal. Here are a few of the things he said in April:

"You have to have patience with things and wait for the right moment."

"The day that I leave Arsenal I will do it with my head, not just because."

"As well as that, who can be sure that you are going to play in a new team? Here I have the great fortune that at a personal level, despite not having won much, I'm doing very well."

"I spoke with (Barcelona captain Carles) Puyol and he told me that at 26 he hadn't won anything. Puyol, who has won everything in the football world! Patience and hard work are the most important things in life."

Does that really sound like a young man who is so frustrated and unhappy with Arsenal and so desperate to leave?

I wasn't speaking financially. Because if we speak financially, Arsenal never need to sell. Arsenal are one of the richest club in the world. This was the same situation last year as well, and remind me, how much did they spend in the transfer market? Who did they purchase? Oh yeah that's right, Squillaci, Koscielny, and mmm... who else? Chamakh on a bosman?

Point is every year Wenger has money to spend, but he doesn't spend it. Last year they wanted a GK and a top defender to fight for trophies, they got neither when they had the money.

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Then you still haven't given me a reason why Wenger has to sell. Do you mean he has to sell Cesc or that he has to sell in general? And why would he have to sell if it's not a matter of finances? And certainly it would seem he wouldn't have to sell if, as you claim, he has no intention of buying anyone.

Also, I gave you two very concrete reasons why Arsenal's financial situation is in no way the same as last year's, but is, in fact, much better. You don't really know what Arsenal might do with the extra money, but whether they spend it all or do nothing with it, they still would not need to sell Cesc.

How do you know Fabregas made up his mind to stay?

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I didn't say anything about him making up his mind. That was you. But if you listen to Cesc's own words rather than all the rumors and speculation, he certainly doesn't sound like someone who is even in any hurry to leave Arsenal, much less someone who has made up his mind to leave as you claim.

Yes because Arsenal never sell their stars to replace them with youngsters. Wait, what? Vieira, Henry, Ljungberg, Pires, Gallas, Hleb, etc... see the pattern?

Wenger developed Vieira, Henry and the rest into world class players, then sold them in favor of youngsters. Fabregas isn't old but he's sick of his years in football passing by without winning shit. I'm sure it wouldn't be the end of the world for Wenger if he sells him for some good money, and his replacement is already ready in Jack Wilshere. Didn't he do that in the past tons of times? Yes. Why wouldn't he do it again?

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Wenger sold those players as they reached the downside of their careers, not just as they were beginning to reach their prime. Again, you're grasping at straws to make an argument for which there is no real basis.

Oh. Okay. I'm sorry, I just seem to remember that Barcelona took a 100m+ loan last year to make up for some of their debts, and they couldn't afford Fabregas last season. Even Rossell when he got elected said that the club is struggling financially and that he won't spend crazily in the market. Their top targets are either Rossi and Aguero who will cost 30m and 40 or 45m respectively. Would they have enough money left after that to spend on Fabregas, to join Mascherano on the bench?

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So if Barcelona took out 100 million euro loan last year wouldn't the £110 million from their Champions League victory have wiped out the debt? Shouldn't that have put Barcelona back on firm financial footing? And if they're in such dire financial straights even after winning the Champions League, why would they want to spend such big money on Rossi (who you admit isn't as good as Cesc) or Aguero? They already have the most dominant team in the world.

Milan can't afford a rich transfer? Didn't we have a billionaire owner? Didn't he promise to sign either one or two champions to let the team fight for the Champions League? Yes, I remember well. I even remember he promised Ibra on the phone before he signed that he'll build him a team that wins the Champions League, isn't that why Ibra agreed to join us?

I laugh at people who say Milan can't afford Fabregas, especially those that have followed Milan for a long time. Didn't Berlusconi sign Rui Costa and Inzaghi in the same transfer market? Didn't he sign a Nesta in his prime from his beloved Lazio were he was captain? This move alone is pure gold. It's like a De Rossi, Totti, Del Piero, Gerrard, Terry or Lampard transfer at their prime, only better.

Last season alone we signed Ibra for 24m and Robinho for 18m. That was after 3 trophyless seasons, and 6 years without a scudetto. You think we can't afford Fabregas after winning the scudetto and targeting the Champions League? I laugh.

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Who said Milan can't afford him? Milan can afford to buy anyone if they're available and willing and if Milan wants them badly enough. That doesn't mean that Milan will be willing to pay the price Arsenal will ask for Fabregas (even if he were willing to make the switch, which is highly debatable). You're talking like one of those jokers who Real Madrid always hires to run the team and then goes around bragging that Real Madrid is so great they can have any player they want because of their money and their history. Is that really what you want Milan to be?

And do you really believe that Milan can't build a team capable of winning the Champions League without Cesc Fabregas? You must not think very highly of Milan if that's the case.

Hey, Fabregas said he'd play for Real or Milan as well, the quote was posted above by some member.

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He said those are dream clubs. A lot of players say things like that, especially when they're asked a question. It doesn't mean they have any particular intention of ever playing for the club. Again, the only club for which Cesc himself has ever spoken in any detail about joining someday is Barcelona and his own father -- who probably knows Cesc's mind a lot better than all the dumbasses who make up crap for the papers and internet sites -- said very recently that the ONLY club that Cesc would consider leaving Arsenal for would be Barcelona. If you'd rather believe internet gossip than what the guy's own family says, that's your prerogative.

Yeah, if I think about it I've heard no indication from Fabregas that he wanted to leave as well. The Barca saga last season was pure speculation and crappy paper talk. Wait, didn't he say he wanted to leave to win trophies? Yes he did. Did Arsenal win anything? No. Did Barca and his friends Pique and Puyol win anything? Yes. Did Milan and his friend Flamini win anything? Yes.

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Again, you'll have to show me where he publicly said that he wants to leave so he can win trophies. I've given you actual direct quotes from Cesc -- very recent ones, in fact -- where he's talking about being patient and developing that winning mentality at Arsenal. All you give me is wild claims based on internet gossip and tabloid speculation.

Also, if you're basing your hopes of him coming to Milan on his friendship with Flamini, then you're really grasping at straws. He has a lot more friends at Barcelona than he does at Milan, so they win on friendship as well.

Yes Arsenal are very ambitious. Nasri, Denilson, Arshavin, Clichy, and Bendtner want to leave. Who are they linked with? Gary Cahill? What did they achieve last season? 4th place in the EPL? They aren't even in the Champions League group stage yet.

Milan want the Champions League. Arsenal are happy with making profits and 4th place. If they were ambitious wouldn't they be linked with big names? Wouldn't they keep their stars? Wouldn't they bring experienced players instead of youthful chokers?

Arsenal are anything but ambitious. United are strong and strengthening, Chelsea are consider finishing 2nd failure and are making an overhaul to come back stronger, City are spending crazy money and actually won a trophy and qualified straight to CL, and next year they'll be even better, Liverpool are back with Dalglish and are targeting Europe next season, while even Spurs are strengthening with Redknapp while Arsenal are still the same. Some choker kids team that's made up of African and French under 24 players.

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Well, we'll just have to see how the transfer market plays out this summer. I've recently seen Arsenal linked to quite a few quality players already this summer (since you seem to put such stock in internet and paper gossip): Falcao, Higuain, Eden Hazard, Moussa Sow, Gervinho, Melo, etc., as well as some tough, physical (what Arsenal is actually lacking) Premiership players such as Chris Samba. But then every team is linked to players through the gossip columns, including Milan. Most of it is just gossip.

But I find it rather amusing that just about all the things you claim about Arsenal were being said about Milan just a summer ago and two summers ago. Milan no longer had any ambition. Two years ago, some people thought Milan was destined to become a mid-table club. Silvio didn't give a crap about the club anymore and they were unwilling to spend any money. No way Milan could ever compete with Inter again unless Silvio were willing to sell the club! Clubs like Napoli, Roma and others were passing Milan by. The only real difference is that some Milan fans were even suggesting that Milan should be more like Arsenal, getting rid of all the old players and bringing in young prospects. Yet, with a few astute transfer moves, suddenly Milan became champions of Italy again. Maybe Arsenal isn't as far away as you think.

Did you actually understand what I said? Do you think any player on the planet would start ahead of Xavi or Iniesta? No. Fabregas is a great great player, but he isn't on Xavi or Iniesta's level, because they are two of the best players in the world currently. Does that downgrade from his ability? Of course not.

Name me one player in the world who could offer us what Fabregas would. There isn't. Xavi? He's glued to Barcelona. Alonso? He's at Madrid. Who else is left? No one. And based on the fact that our top priority is a creative center midfielder, then yes, Fabregas is a priority.

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Well what exactly do you mean by "offer what Fabregas would?" If you mean exactly the same in every aspect of play, of course every player is different. That doesn't mean they are better or worse. Just different. Do you not think there is any midfield player in the world besides Xavi and Iniesta who is as good as Cesc Fabregas or could be as good as him? It would seem to me that if you believe he is so far below Barcelona's current guys, then there should at least be somebody else out there in the same class as Cesc. I find it difficult to believe that nobody else could possibly do.

Liverpool paid that kind of money for Carroll firstly because they're idiots, and secondly, because it was deadline day in the market. Newcastle were at the point of power.

Remember, both transfers were mid-season. That's very different than in the summer. In the summer, there's enough time to find a replacement, and the season hadn't already started. So new players have time to gel in pre-season and settle with the team. While in January, it's in the middle of the season, and most teams aren't prepared to sell their star players. So it was completely understandable for Liverpool, a club that were in need of money, sold their star player at a ridiculous price.

Plus you are mentioning two of the most expensive transfers in history as an example. But hey, for how much did we sign Ibrahimovic? Oh yes I remember, 24m.

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It wasn't mid-season or at the deadline when Milan sold Kaka to Real Madrid for a silly price. Also, in order for the timing to be relevant you have to assume that either Arsenal is desperate to sell Fabregas or that Fabregas is desperate to leave. I've seen no evidence of either. Quite the contrary, in fact.

And once again, you fail to understand how situations can be different. Ibrahimovic desperately wanted out of Barcelona and Pep desperately wanted him out because they hated each other's living guts. Milan took advantage. But you said yourself that Wenger is like a father to Cesc. If Arsenal sells him, it will be at their price. It won't be at your price or Galliani's price or Barcelona's price. And it will only be if and when he is ready to go.

Hey I'd rather have a world class player who's for free and already experienced. You see what I did there? It's not like we want to buy Fabregas then sell him, but is there any other better option than him? No.

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Whether or not there is a "better" option is immaterial -- especially if Fabregas isn't really an option at all. Also, if you really know this sport or any other, then you know that the best player isn't always necessarily the best option. There are always multiple options for any position. It's just a matter of price, availability and how the coach and the front office believe that player will fit in the squad for the long term or the short.

Also, if Cesc is the only player who is good enough or the right fit or whatever it is that makes you think nobody else will do, please explain to me what there is about him that makes him so essential to Milan's future that, say, Schweinsteiger or some other midfielder would never do?

Nope. I've just mentioned facts, and based my assumptions on the facts we all know. What you did was dismiss my assumptions based on your assumptions. This doesn't change the facts, which my assumptions were built on. You're just scared to believe that we might end up signing Fabregas in fear of disappointment.

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You haven't provided facts. You've provided rumor and gossip. And it's that gossip -- combined with your fantasy football dreaming -- on which you're basing your entire argument.

As for me, I'm willing to let Allegri and Galliani decide which players to bring into the squad based on their best judgement and the availability of the players. If by some miracle they get Arsenal to sell Fabregas to them at the cut-rate price you suggest they would and if Fabregas is willing to make the move, that's great. It's just not realistic. Dream all you want. I'll wait and see.

I hope people aren't reading Fiero's post and being convinced that Cesc will come to Milan, by his post, yes, but there's also the chance that he wants to be part of the record breaking, arguably the best team ever that also has some of his close personal friends with the national team too.

Yes, if you take every word from that post as truth, it all makes perfect sense, but it's all hopefuly what if's and the chances of him actually coming are very small. Barcelona would have to not want him first, and what's to say he'd leave Arsenal for Milan? If Wenger moves quickly this summer and for whatever reason Barca don't move for him, he'll just stay put.

Excellent post Fiero!