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View Poll Results: Who will make the quarter finals?
Germany 23 63.89%
England 13 36.11%
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Old 28-06-2010, 08:17   #521
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Originally Posted by Senatore_M84 View Post
funny cause englands first wc goal could be defined as these criticisms. But then what happened to them?

What that guy wrote abut EPL style not conducive to international is true, but i still wonder how much is capellos fault. I just can't see him making dumb of mistakes. it seemed to me he tried to counteract it playing 4 CMs and still
Capello is not God. Dont think anyone could have done any better with the English style and the available players.

It takes a close to impossible effort to change the way players see football back in their league. So forget the triangles and the nifty passing - should have just tried to do what they can, as good as they can. Still, I don't think any coach could have saved England against Germany.
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Old 28-06-2010, 08:18   #522
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Capello needs to learn English. This is shamefull. How can he communicate with his players? Nobody can understand him.


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Old 28-06-2010, 11:13   #523
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Originally Posted by Kalac#16 View Post
I still feel this one is appropriate
Funny

What do you think the chances are for him the next NT coach in the future? Interested to hear your opinion regarding whether you think its relevant if England have an English coach or not ...
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Golden Generation? More like the Lost Boys at the Carnival. England were clueless against Germany's pace and movement. It's a bit hard to believe that it's a Capello team. I don't remember too many of his squads getting right royally done over.

But the second goal must've stood. England were just starting to show some fight and after Upson's goal had both the belief and the momentum, but were desperately unlucky with the Lampard decision. Considering England were bossing the play then, it might just have given them belief and changed the course of the match. But great sides bounce back from such unexpected setbacks. England are too fragile.
Not saying that at 2-2 it wouldn't have been a completely different game, but England were still in it at 2-1. I also think they had the upper hand for the first 10-15 minutes of the second half ... but even in that period, they didn't threaten Germany's goal the way I thought they would have. Sure, Lampard hit the post, but other than that, Germany's goal keeper didn't have much to do.

And the manner in which they gave up the third and fourth goals reflected the difference between the two sides. The Germans were disciplined tactically, keeping their shape even when attacking in numbers. With so much time left in a game at 2-1, where you still have every possibility to tie, England pressed the self-destruct button with what can only be described as amateur errors. No discipline at all.

But worst of all, I actually miss the traditional English game. Call it 'agricultural', it can be damn effective if implemented correctly ... heck, MERDA were destroyers, and look what they did in Europe last term. From ever since I started watching football, I always remembered England giving their all and something more. Fighting till the end, not giving up at any point, any circumstance. This English side (generation-wise) doesn't have this mentality ...

I mean, I see Rooney winning balls for United in their own penalty box, starting a counter attack, which he works so hard to finish. But for England, he can barely put 10 good touches of the ball ... and his body language wasn't at all positive. I've singled out Rooney, because based on ability, he's easily England's best player ... but the same can be said of others as well.

I lost count of how many balls were lost by Gerrard, Lampard, Terry, Barry ... heck even Upson ... trying difficult passes that even Pirlo struggles to hit. That too, when there's a simpler/easier option 10 meters away from them. It didn't help matters that the frontline was static as hell, but some of the passes were ludicrous to say the least. Why do I think England failed to put more than 5 consecutive passes together? Because someone would try one long/extremely difficult pass, which even if it found its target, required the receiving players to take time to control/bring it down, hence losing whatever advantage such a long + difficult pass would create to begin with. I actually think keeping it simple - agricultural - would have worked better to England's benefit ... especially with the physical + quick players they have ...

I say forget the "modern game" and "the way it should be played" BS. Some countries have the talent to pass the ball from goal to goal requiring only a tap in. England, from the evidence of this WC, does not. So why not play the game the way you know it + get the results ... because at the end of the day, the result matter more than anything ...

Hate to say it, but discipline, motivation, fight, etc. are the coach's responsibility. Obviously Capello will point to the disallowed goal, but overall I think he came very short in making this English side what it could be. I don't buy the talk that England doesn't have good players. We see them excel in their respective clubs at the highest levels, so whats different here? Simply put, they didn't play as a team. They didn't have character and an identity, hence ended up looking like the mess they were. I think that's a coach's responsibility ...


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Last edited by GreatKalu; 28-06-2010 at 11:16.
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Old 28-06-2010, 11:44   #524
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I'm not claiming to be the master of English football, but why didn't Capello try Joe Hart? From what I've seen of that guy, he's pretty consistent - which is an upgrade to David James and Green.

On another note, I don't get why FIFA is all stubborn about the Video Refereeing thing. It might have resulted in a different outcome to this match. ..and if they see Technology as a "bad" thing...then at least put a referee behind each goal.


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Old 28-06-2010, 12:23   #525
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What happened to England was bad actually but I really think that this incident did as much damage if not more for Germany.
Germany would have won regardless coz this English team is a joke & now their win is stained with the disallowed goal + what could have been if ....
And I really dont know how ppl dont wanna blame Capello.
I mean his trademark is making his team defensively stronger & in this he failed big time.
His team , it is he team , was so easy to penetrate & that got nothing to do with individuals coz I saw far worse players forming a much stronger defense than England with a different coach & with Cappelo himself.
Germany deserve to qualify & they did so good for them.


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Old 28-06-2010, 13:12   #526
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England aren't doomed at all. We have some brilliant yong players. Rodwell, Wilshere (very creative), Adam Johnson. In defence you have Cahill and Shawcross. Joe Hart will be keeper for years. Glen Johnson will be at his peak in 4 years and will improve his defending (which he has already done).

4 years time:

--------------Hart------------

Johnson--Cahill---Shawcross---Cole

-----Milner--Rodwell--Wilshere-----

Lennon-----------------------Johnson
-------------Rooney--------------

Players players like Delph, Delfounso, Welbeck, Richards, Cleverly, Gibbs, Huddlestone ect.

This is actually a great chance now. As much as anything else, we're poor because we've gone stale. We need freshness and I think the likes of Terry, Rio, Lampard, James, SWP and Heskey should be kept off the team.

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What happened to England was bad actually but I really think that this incident did as much damage if not more for Germany.
Germany would have won regardless coz this English team is a joke & now their win is stained with the disallowed goal + what could have been if ....
And I really dont know how ppl dont wanna blame Capello.
I mean his trademark is making his team defensively stronger & in this he failed big time.
His team , it is he team , was so easy to penetrate & that got nothing to do with individuals coz I saw far worse players forming a much stronger defense than England with a different coach & with Cappelo himself.
Germany deserve to qualify & they did so good for them.
Nah not at all. This Germany is excellent on the counter, so the fact that we needed a goal just to draw level meant we left our already average defence (due to injuries) exposed.

Germany would still probably have won, but it definately would have been a completely different game. The momentum would have been huge.

Last edited by manutd fan; 28-06-2010 at 13:15.
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Old 28-06-2010, 13:12   #527
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The FIFA are making fools of themselfs. They left the Lampard goal out of the summary on the website...


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Old 28-06-2010, 14:15   #528
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Originally Posted by madtherchot View Post
Funny

What do you think the chances are for him the next NT coach in the future? Interested to hear your opinion regarding whether you think its relevant if England have an English coach or not ...
Relevant? I think so, but only because we basically bought Capello, practically EPL'ing the international game, making money a factor that it shouldn't be. That said, our choice of English managers is laughable. IF Capello was to resign (and it's looking very unlikely) then I'd want Roy Hodgson, but after him and Redknapp the level of English managers isn't up to standard.


@Utd fan, Huddlestone will be in the England team a lot more in the future, he's easily the best passer we have, as Calum would tell you, his range of passing is quite unbelievable.

Ashley Cole would retire for the next WC, whilst I think Shawcross is better than Cahill, so is Davies if he can stay injury free.

This might mean more of Agbonlahor in the international team, not sure how I feel about that, at least his pace and power would be something to fear.
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Old 28-06-2010, 14:19   #529
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Originally Posted by Kalac#16 View Post

This might mean more of Agbonlahor in the international team, not sure how I feel about that, at least his pace and power would be something to fear.
I think a player like Agbonlahor would translate very well on the international level. Would have given USA, Algeira, and Slovenia fits
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Old 28-06-2010, 14:45   #530
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That with the one goal not given for England is a shame, these refs nowadays are only getting worse It's unbelieveable that neither the ref. nor the assistant ref. has seen that this ball was clear behind the line.
Maybe that goal would've changed the outcome of this match, we will never know. For sure Germany played better and had many chances, so still I would say it was a deserved win, even though they cancelled one of England's goals. Germany with their young guys are a really good team and they had a great match yesterday, England just wasn't good enough.
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Old 28-06-2010, 15:33   #531
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Relevant? I think so, but only because we basically bought Capello, practically EPL'ing the international game, making money a factor that it shouldn't be. That said, our choice of English managers is laughable. IF Capello was to resign (and it's looking very unlikely) then I'd want Roy Hodgson, but after him and Redknapp the level of English managers isn't up to standard.
Agreed. Not sure what we can do about it either as it's got as much to do with the fact that clubs aren't willing to give managers a chance than it is the actual quality.

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@Utd fan, Huddlestone will be in the England team a lot more in the future, he's easily the best passer we have, as Calum would tell you, his range of passing is quite unbelievable.
Yeah I agree. I was just pushing the younger players.

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Ashley Cole would retire for the next WC, whilst I think Shawcross is better than Cahill, so is Davies if he can stay injury free.
Not sure about Cole tbh. He's 30 now, and it's not that unrealistic to think a 34 year old can play full back. He just wouldn't be as attacking as he is now. Doesn't matter that much though as Keiran Gibbs has a lot of potential.

Must admit I don't watch many Bolton matches, so my opinion on Cahill is based on what others say. Shawcross is the perfect replacement for Terry. Very similar players.

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This might mean more of Agbonlahor in the international team, not sure how I feel about that, at least his pace and power would be something to fear.
Yeah, or Walcott. I'm hoping in 4 years time he becomes a good player. Adam Johnson is a cert for a starting place though.
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Old 28-06-2010, 16:02   #532
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Originally Posted by Kalac#16 View Post
@Utd fan, Huddlestone will be in the England team a lot more in the future, he's easily the best passer we have, as Calum would tell you, his range of passing is quite unbelievable.

<3 Huddlestone.

You desperately need a ball-playing midfielder. A proper one, not a fraud like Carrick or Barry.
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Old 28-06-2010, 17:35   #533
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<3 Huddlestone.

You desperately need a ball-playing midfielder. A proper one, not a fraud like Carrick or Barry.
We could do with some of this:


Though I don't think anyone really considers Barry a ball playing midfielder. Actually I'm not sure what he is. Jack of all trades type midfielder I guess.
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Old 28-06-2010, 17:47   #534
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Originally Posted by manutd fan View Post
We could do with some of this:


Though I don't think anyone really considers Barry a ball playing midfielder. Actually I'm not sure what he is. Jack of all trades type midfielder I guess.
Jesus, I wonder if you can manage 3 posts without linking it back to Utd?
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Old 28-06-2010, 17:50   #535
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Though I don't think anyone really considers Barry a ball playing midfielder. Actually I'm not sure what he is. Jack of all trades type midfielder I guess.

OK, I'll rephrase. Instead of Carrick or Barry, you need either a proper ball-player or a proper DM. Neither of those two is anything in particular.
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Old 28-06-2010, 17:52   #536
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OK, I'll rephrase. Instead of Carrick or Barry, you need either a proper ball-player or a proper DM. Neither of those two is anything in particular.
So now versatile jack of all trade players are bad? I mean carrick and Barry are no Maurice Edu, but they are good midfielders.
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Old 28-06-2010, 17:52   #537
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Jesus, I wonder if you can manage 3 posts without linking it back to Utd?
Well not neccesarily United, more Paul Scholes

I actually think subconciously my fanboy-ism has learnt from your James Milner fanboy-ism
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Old 28-06-2010, 17:55   #538
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So now versatile jack of all trade players are bad? I mean carrick and Barry are no Maurice Edu, but they are good midfielders.
He's a good player but nothing more, which isn't what England need. If you're gonna play 4-4-2 at the highest level you're gonna need two top CM's.

Barry would be fine if he was partnered with a Scholes/Fabregas/Xavi type player and Gerrard. He's not the type that you can give a main responsibility.

edit: Carrick is fine when you're playing well as a team, but he doesn't jave the balls to impose himself on a match.

Last edited by manutd fan; 28-06-2010 at 17:57.
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Old 28-06-2010, 18:05   #539
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Originally Posted by manutd fan View Post
He's a good player but nothing more, which isn't what England need. If you're gonna play 4-4-2 at the highest level you're gonna need two top CM's.

Barry would be fine if he was partnered with a Scholes/Fabregas/Xavi type player and Gerrard. He's not the type that you can give a main responsibility.

edit: Carrick is fine when you're playing well as a team, but he doesn't jave the balls to impose himself on a match.
4-4-2 with 2 flying wingers will NOT work in football outside EPL. 2 CMs just doesn't work. you get overwhelmed with possession.

I always got feeling capello went for the 3/4 CM midfield to try and IMPOSE more possession for that reason, and still didn't work. Sadly the 4 he choose would have lent perfectly for the ancelotti diamond

gerrard
lampard----milner
barry

Anyway you can quib about midfield or attack but IMO..... All englands problems r tied to backline. You could see from moment Rio Ferdinand went down they looked worse and worse. If tourney was in 2009, they might have been serious contenders...


Ill also blame the terry fiasco. It's sad but true, england really never looked confident. Weird cause i thought they'd pull it together but while other national teams rally together with england there was a big 'i don't give a shit' attitude. Am i only one who saw that? Just didn't see passion you see with say.... south american sides
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Old 28-06-2010, 18:11   #540
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Take it from somebody who watched a lot of Barry, he's useless in a 4-4-2
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