Andrea Pirlo Thread

Riccardo V · Feb 8, 2010

Mr. Anonymous said:
Agreed!!

But this is the Pirlo thread & the discussion was him vs/or in comparison to
R80.

Other players need not be brought in the discussion.

I don't think comparing a defensive midfielder with a winger is a fair comparison. How many assists / goals does Dida notch up? Let's berate him for having lower stats than Dinho.

But if we can compare Pirlo to Dinho in the Pirlo thread then I would say we can compare Pirlo with the other players that played in the game against Palermo in the same thread. So, if we're going to get annoyed with Pirlo for not bailing us out against Palermo here, we might as well point out that no-one else did - since it would be unfair to put the loss down to one player, or at least make it seem that way.

ernesto · Feb 8, 2010

i cant believe i'm seeing this debate lol.. they are just two different players.. u just compare what one can do to the other.. . . they both contribute different aspects..

milan1st · Feb 8, 2010

Good posts PaoloMaldini3 and RicardoV.

Dont worry about them, it is impossible for them to understand it UNTIL pirlo will be fast as a chetah and dribble like ronaldo.

Speed=Everything.

Mr. Anonymous · Feb 8, 2010

Riccardo V said:
I don't think comparing a defensive midfielder with a winger is a fair comparison. How many assists / goals does Dida notch up? Let's berate him for having lower stats than Dinho.

But if we can compare Pirlo to Dinho in the Pirlo thread then I would say we can compare Pirlo with the other players that played in the game against Palermo in the same thread. So, if we're going to get annoyed with Pirlo for not bailing us out against Palermo here, we might as well point out that no-one else did - since it would be unfair to put the loss down to one player, or at least make it seem that way.

SpartanMilan said:
and honestly, with the lack of running that Dinho does, Pirlo could probably be just as effective as him at LW. Dinho is in a position to create going to the inside, and you all bitch that Pirlo only sends the ball up.

I joined the discussion when the above comment was made which I think is absurd.

And to say that he could come close to doing what Dinho does on the left is as laughable as saying Dinho could play as a defensive mid.

With that in mind...Pirlo has not consistantly made the deadly accurate passes that made him so effective a few years back. Nor do I remember him making a free kick this year that has buldge the back of the net when it mattered.

But he has done a lot more spinning to get away from challanges than in past years.

Is he our worst player this season...by no means. Is he one of our best players this season...Not IMO!!!

MassterMark · Feb 8, 2010

the fact is, and this cant understand all pirlo lovers, that pirlo is so fucking useless at this position that it's better to go clean toilette than play between ambro & flamini/beck.

if he wont play on 'seedorf's position' than it's better to have him on the bench or even not on the bench.

drucurl · Feb 8, 2010

Riccardo V said:
I don't think comparing a defensive midfielder with a winger is a fair comparison. How many assists / goals does Dida notch up? Let's berate him for having lower stats than Dinho.

But if we can compare Pirlo to Dinho in the Pirlo thread then I would say we can compare Pirlo with the other players that played in the game against Palermo in the same thread. So, if we're going to get annoyed with Pirlo for not bailing us out against Palermo here, we might as well point out that no-one else did - since it would be unfair to put the loss down to one player, or at least make it seem that way.

Ok so he's a defensive mid huh? Can he tackle? Is he tough enough to get stuck in? Can he retain possesion when pressured by opposition cdm's? Sounds like a pretty shit cdm to me

SpartanMilan · Feb 8, 2010

drucurl said:
Ok so he's a defensive mid huh? Can he tackle? Is he tough enough to get stuck in? Can he retain possesion when pressured by opposition cdm's? Sounds like a pretty shit cdm to me

so if you cant call him a certain position or another he is no good?

Mrk · Feb 8, 2010

MassterMark said:
the fact is, and this cant understand all pirlo lovers, that pirlo is so fucking useless at this position that it's better to go clean toilette than play between ambro & flamini/beck.

if he wont play on 'seedorf's position' than it's better to have him on the bench or even not on the bench.

Seriously you'd think you only started watching us in 2007.

Bar several months after his arrival before Ancelotti moved him, he has always played in the position he is in now, in front of the defence, the only difference is we now play 4-2-3-1 instead of 4-3-1-2.

He wasn't 'useless' then and he certainly isnt 'useless' now, although i bet if he was 20 you'd be bumming him everywhere.

drucurl · Feb 8, 2010

SpartanMilan said:
so if you cant call him a certain position or another he is no good?

Was responding to "oh he's a cdm we can't compare him to a cam". And the answer to your question is "no". However if he's an incomplete player and his better half (Gattuso) is obsolete, then he's obsolete too. Common sense really.

SpartanMilan · Feb 8, 2010

drucurl said:
Was responding to "oh he's a cdm we can't compare him to a cam". And the answer to your question is "no". However if he's an incomplete player and his better half (Gattuso) is obsolete, then he's obsolete too. Common sense really.

replace Gattuso with Flamini. and "better half" is just silly.

GreatKalu · Feb 8, 2010

What nonsense. Pirlo is doing just fine without Gattuso. He's even playing better this season than the last few. And if you want to compare Pirlo's stats (assists, goals) with Dinho's, then its only fair to call him a combination of Nesta, Maldini and Baresi, when comparing them defensively.

Everyone knows that Pirlo's weakness is his strength and pace. Still, this season, he has been working his ass off ... such that we're able to only play him and Ambro in the center and still be able to cope. Meanwhile, when a front line of Dinho, Clarence, Mancini/Becks/Pato and Bori find it hard to score, Pirlo's to blame :rolleyes:

Mrk · Feb 8, 2010

madtherchot said:
What nonsense. Pirlo is doing just fine without Gattuso. He's even playing better this season than the last few. And if you want to compare Pirlo's stats (assists, goals) with Dinho's, then its only fair to call him a combination of Nesta, Maldini and Baresi, when comparing them defensively.

Everyone knows that Pirlo's weakness is his strength and pace. Still, this season, he has been working his ass off ... such that we're able to only play him and Ambro in the center and still be able to cope. Meanwhile, when a front line of Dinho, Clarence, Mancini/Becks/Pato and Bori find it hard to score, Pirlo's to blame

SpartanMilan · Feb 8, 2010

madtherchot said:
what nonsense. Pirlo is doing just fine without gattuso. He's even playing better this season than the last few. And if you want to compare pirlo's stats (assists, goals) with dinho's, then its only fair to call him a combination of nesta, maldini and baresi, when comparing them defensively.

Everyone knows that pirlo's weakness is his strength and pace. Still, this season, he has been working his ass off ... Such that we're able to only play him and ambro in the center and still be able to cope. Meanwhile, when a front line of dinho, clarence, mancini/becks/pato and bori find it hard to score, pirlo's to blame

+1,000

drucurl · Feb 8, 2010

SpartanMilan said:
replace Gattuso with Flamini. and "better half" is just silly.

Like Flam plays every game :rolleyes:

and why are you so bent on playing Pirlo? Isn't it just better to replace him with a more complete player than have someone dedicated to cleaning up after him :conf:

Flams himself can replace him. Sure we'll suffer in the long passes dept. But Ambro can sure pick out his man at range, we'd have more bite in midfield and we'd have two players cleaning up after the forwards instead of one. Isn't that a better scenario?

SpartanMilan · Feb 8, 2010

drucurl said:
and why are you so bent on playing Pirlo? Isn't it just better to replace him with a more complete player than have someone dedicated to cleaning up after him
Flams himself can replace him. Sure we'll suffer in the long passes dept. But Ambro can sure pick out his man at range, we'd have more bite in midfield and we'd have two players cleaning up after the forwards instead of one. Isn't that a better scenario?

Pirlo should be playing in a more advanced role, that is where he is currently more effective. put Flams and Ambro behind him, I've be saying that for a while

drucurl · Feb 8, 2010

SpartanMilan said:
Pirlo should be playing in a more advanced role, that is where he is currently more effective. put Flams and Ambro behind him, I've be saying that for a while

I could live with that

Actually let him and Clarence fight for the cam spot. My point is that he's shit at cdm. A liability even. I also maintain that an Essien, Fab, Xavi or possibly Hernanes would make the 4-3-3 work MUCH better. Hell a Flam, ambro, clarence might even work better. At least clarence wouldn't get tossed around the way Andrea does and he could actually tackle too.

lexx · Feb 8, 2010

I kind of feel with a guard dog like gattuso pirlo has more time and space to create the right passes i wouldn't say pirlo is worse without gattuso but he does need some midfield protection and clearly most games ambrosini has a massive workload and seedorf completely uninterested in defending. With the national team he has the likes of palumbo and de rossi to protect him and is allowed to play in a more advanced role i would hope if Milan copied the format in that situation he is the nest passer of the ball in the game and he doesn't need to worry about defence we are using the same formation as the azzuri why is it so difficult to adjust his position.

ladro · Feb 8, 2010

PaoloMaldini3 said:
I am not singling you out, but i find it hilarious that Pirlo, who's main job is to keep possession (and he does that very, very well) gets all the flack when Milan fail to make chances, yet Ronaldinho, Seedorf etc don't get anywhere near the same amount of criticism even though its their job to create the chances.

It seems like when Milan go through a bad spell, people turn on the players who have given a lot to Milan over the years rather than the players who haven't - they become almost immune from criticism, it bemuses me.

Pirlos main job is to retain possession? So he aint a MF but is in fact a TW. A time waster. Pirlos job is just like all other creative MFs. Not just retaining possesion but redistributing the ball forward and not just inches forward but creating chances for the strikers, wingers or whoever finds himself in-front. What so hard to understand what a MAESTRO should do? :rolleyes:

And really seedorf doesnt get any criticism? I dont know where were you last year but even if you were on the moon you could here whistles from SS everytime he got the ball. Ronaldinhos thread in some places has more craters than Baghdad and ''mercenary'' Pato is dead to so many (********) people who want fucking Rossi here now cuz he never exchanged 1 word with ancelotti.

As for the senatores getting bashed..........thats AC Milans administrations fault. We have a squad that has an average age of 30. THIRTY! Most milan fans were used to seeing gattuso, pirlo, ambro and dorf walk all over merda yet now they got humiliated. Why? Because they got old. If this admin like all other would buy the necessary replacements to relieve the players who werent @ their best things would have gone different. Where were replacements for gattuso and dorf while they sucked hard?? Nowhere so the coaches had no other option but to field them even when they were completely out of breath. So its obvious they got bashed since some of the performances were DISASTROUS.

GreatKalu · Feb 8, 2010

The problem isn't finding replacements for Pirlo, Ambro, Gattuso, etc. Yes, they are at the end of their careers, but with the likes of Flamini and Becks, we still should be able to cope and have a decent central midfield. The problem is ... Berlu's infatuation with the creator himself ... Dinho.

We've spent too much, tailored the team enough, all just to get the BB (brilian brazilian) to awe us with his flicks and tricks. So far, the bargain hasn't paid off.

Its perhaps the one thing I can truly blame Berlu for. Its not enough that he doesn't invest in the club ... now he wants to bring his PR players and demand they play (Carlo's departure anyone?) ... thats too much. Leave the club alone to the managers and coaches. Let them chose the players and who they want to play.

ladro · Feb 8, 2010

But isnt Galliani the one who brought in mancini?? YEEP, so ill just continue senselessly hating on galliani even though i dont know whats going on there thank you

.

drucurl · Feb 8, 2010

lexx said:
I kind of feel with a guard dog like gattuso pirlo has more time and space to create the right passes i wouldn't say pirlo is worse without gattuso but he does need some midfield protection and clearly most games ambrosini has a massive workload and seedorf completely uninterested in defending. With the national team he has the likes of palumbo and de rossi to protect him and is allowed to play in a more advanced role i would hope if Milan copied the format in that situation he is the nest passer of the ball in the game and he doesn't need to worry about defence we are using the same formation as the azzuri why is it so difficult to adjust his position.

lolzz so he's better with Gattuso but not worse without him? Lemme guess more space management?

GreatKalu · Feb 8, 2010

Illadro80 said:
But isnt Galliani the one who brought in mancini?? YEEP, so ill just continue senselessly hating on galliani even though i dont know whats going on there thank you.

Thats twice you've spelled his name correctly, that too in two consecutive sentences. We all know you love him

Senatore_M84 · Feb 8, 2010

drucurl said:
lolzz so he's better with Gattuso but not worse without him? Lemme guess more space management?

I love this quote....

"football is just a game of creating and closing down space" Simple but true. To unlock a team defensively you need to be able to pass it around and move. We can pass as a team, not so much in terms of movement. Barca can do both, which is y they r the way they r now...

Anyway my 2 cents: pirlo is able to pass it anywhere from middle of park. There r a handful of players like this in the world and all are flawed someway defensively. He is smart, plays defense tactically, gets alot o interceptions so i can live w/ his output as a CM defensively. The issue is since sheva left and cafu,serginho got old, (and kaka left) we r really lacking players who can beat there man and make runs. it's that simple. The milan of 2003-2006 were total package kinda like barca now.

I think fabregas is better than pirlo (or atleast will be), you can say xavi is better, but i dont see any of these guys making a REAL difference w/ this team.

lexx · Feb 8, 2010

drucurl said:
lolzz so he's better with Gattuso but not worse without him? Lemme guess more space management?

i said nothing about gattuso i said a player like him frankly gattuso of the modern day really doesn't have the pace and stamina to protect pirlo anyone or at least to the degree that de rossi or palumbo can.

SpartanMilan · Feb 8, 2010

Illadro80 said:
But isnt Galliani the one who brought in mancini?? YEEP, so ill just continue senselessly hating on galliani even though i dont know whats going on there thank you.

we needed some more depth at winger and he was free

SpartanMilan · Feb 8, 2010

madtherchot said:
The problem isn't finding replacements for Pirlo, Ambro, Gattuso, etc. Yes, they are at the end of their careers, but with the likes of Flamini and Becks, we still should be able to cope and have a decent central midfield. The problem is ... Berlu's infatuation with the creator himself ... Dinho.

We've spent too much, tailored the team enough, all just to get the BB (brilian brazilian) to awe us with his flicks and tricks. So far, the bargain hasn't paid off.

Its perhaps the one thing I can truly blame Berlu for. Its not enough that he doesn't invest in the club ... now he wants to bring his PR players and demand they play (Carlo's departure anyone?) ... thats too much. Leave the club alone to the managers and coaches. Let them chose the players and who they want to play.

I would agree with this, we were much more balanced with a 4-3-1-2, but Dinho struggled as the 1, so we had to change formations. By changing, Pato losses value because he is much better at SS than on the wing. It also means only one CF, and that hurts because Hunter and Pato could be an awesome pairing up front.
If we forget Dinho this-
--------------Abiatti-------------
--Abate--Nesta--Silva--Antonini--
----Flamini--Seedorf--Ambro-----
----------------Pirlo---------------
--------Pato----------Huntelaar-----

would be a great formation for us to run. Our outside guys could run up the flanks, and we have Seedorf and Pirlo to create stuff up the middle.

drucurl · Feb 8, 2010

Milano84 said:
I love this quote....

"football is just a game of creating and closing down space" Simple but true. To unlock a team defensively you need to be able to pass it around and move. We can pass as a team, not so much in terms of movement. Barca can do both, which is y they r the way they r now...

Anyway my 2 cents: pirlo is able to pass it anywhere from middle of park. There r a handful of players like this in the world and all are flawed someway defensively. He is smart, plays defense tactically, gets alot o interceptions so i can live w/ his output as a CM defensively. The issue is since sheva left and cafu,serginho got old, (and kaka left) we r really lacking players who can beat there man and make runs. it's that simple. The milan of 2003-2006 were total package kinda like barca now.

I think fabregas is better than pirlo (or atleast will be), you can say xavi is better, but i dont see any of these guys making a REAL difference w/ this team.

Lol you do try to make everything sound more complex than it really is don't you? :proud:

football is about scoring goals and defending your own goal. For all their tactical genius Brazil has been raping Italy (in general) since I could remember. The reason is simple. The best offence would always destroy the best defence. The reason for THAT is an attacker only has to get the better of a defender once and it's all over while the reverse isn't true.
Coming back to the Pirlo debate, it's better in my humble opinion to have a cm who does all the basic things (like pass, shoot, tackle free kicks) right than someone who is very tactical but the team never reads his plays. It's much simpler to replace that one player than the whole team. Considering the NUMEROUS free kick opportunities wasted alone makes replacing Pirlo a wise choice. Imagine if one of our free kick opportunities vs Arsenal 08 scored, our very history could have been different. In the past he was truly a maestro but now he looks a spent force.

Senatore_M84 · Feb 8, 2010

drucurl said:
Lol you do try to make everything sound more complex than it really is don't you? football is about scoring goals and defending your own goal. For all their tactical genius Brazil has been raping Italy (in general) since I could remember. The reason is simple. The best offence would always destroy the best defence. The reason for THAT is an attacker only has to get the better of a defender once and it's all over while the reverse isn't true.
Coming back to the Pirlo debate, it's better in my humble opinion to have a cm who does all the basic things (like pass, shoot, tackle free kicks) right than someone who is very tactical but the team never reads his plays. It's much simpler to replace that one player than the whole team. Considering the NUMEROUS free kick opportunities wasted alone makes replacing Pirlo a wise choice. Imagine if one of our free kick opportunities vs Arsenal 08 scored, our very history could have been different. In the past he was truly a maestro but now he looks a spent force.

i think my explanation is actually simpler... it explains how you score and defend

ummm but to your point interesting theory BUUUT, 1982 world cup directly spits in your logic's face. "Joga Bonito" lost.

but it's a back and forth in my opinion.... great offense, great defense. I don't think 1>other. Just a matter of the day.

1994 final is a favorite, but i feel it was pretty even, probably actually favored the italians. High powered brazil couldn't score. It went to PK's and Brazil won, it happens but thats hardly 'raping'. The current brazil side is VERY tactical though. no denying that, and w/ more natural talent has owned current italian side

FaRa13 · Feb 8, 2010

SpartanMilan said:
I would agree with this, we were much more balanced with a 4-3-1-2, but Dinho struggled as the 1, so we had to change formations. By changing, Pato losses value because he is much better at SS than on the wing. It also means only one CF, and that hurts because Hunter and Pato could be an awesome pairing up front.
If we forget Dinho this-
--------------Abiatti-------------
--Abate--Nesta--Silva--Antonini--
----Flamini--Seedorf--Ambro-----
----------------Pirlo---------------
--------Pato----------Huntelaar-----

would be a great formation for us to run. Our outside guys could run up the flanks, and we have Seedorf and Pirlo to create stuff up the middle.

I like this formation, but the odds of leo not fielding borriello and ronaldinho are very small. As for the defense offense debate..you have to have a good balance. Germans are a perfect example, thats why they are always a top competitor in every world cup.

Riccardo V · Feb 9, 2010

Mr. Anonymous said:
I joined the discussion when the above comment was made which I think is absurd.

And to say that he could come close to doing what Dinho does on the left is as laughable as saying Dinho could play as a defensive mid.

My comment about Dinho vs Pirlo was in response to someone else comparing both players assists / goals, which, given that they play in different positions, are bound to be different and totally irrelevant. If comparisons are to be made, compare Pirlo with Ambro for example.

Mr. Anonymous said:
With that in mind...Pirlo has not consistantly made the deadly accurate passes that made him so effective a few years back. Nor do I remember him making a free kick this year that has buldge the back of the net when it mattered.

But he has done a lot more spinning to get away from challanges than in past years.

You've made a series of sweeping statements here. Pirlo-bashers no doubt forgot instantly, or didn't even notice, Pirlo's assist for Borri's Van Basten goal against Siena. Is he not consistent? Maybe that's relative depending on your perspective. If Pirlo makes a deadly accurate pass and the striker scores (like Borri against Siena) it'll be remembered, perhaps begrudgingly, but if he makes a deadly accurate pass and most of the time the striker fails to do something with it, the pass won't be remembered (by Pirlo-bashers or Pilro-lovers alike). That doesn't prove inconsistency.

FK duties are shared between Pirlo, Dinho and Beckham so I would expect his success rate to diminish due to having fewer opportunities. But if were going to criticise Pirlo for not scoring from FK's we need to do the same with Beckham and Dinho when they fail to score or hit target and there's been a few of them lately. Don't get me wrong though, I like Beckham and Dinho. Not scoring from FK's or whatever doesn't turn me against them.

Mr. Anonymous said:
Is he our worst player this season...by no means. Is he one of our best players this season...Not IMO!!!

If Pirlo isn't our worst player this season I'd love to know who is and does he get more flack than Pirlo?

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