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AC Milan Discussions Talk about AC Milan's tactics, AC Milan news, events, history, etc., in here. Also find out details on how to travel to Milan and buy AC Milan tickets. |
View Poll Results: Who should be the new Milan captain | |||
Alessio Romagnoli |
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17 | 89.47% |
Giacomo Bonaventura |
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1 | 5.26% |
Cristian Zapata |
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0 | 0% |
Gonzalo Higuain |
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1 | 5.26% |
Lucas Biglia |
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0 | 0% |
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll |
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#1 |
Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
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Title says it all. I think the most interesting discussions that go on here are in one way or another related to tactics, at least to me anyway. And I know the quality posters share this opinion, and eventually these are the ones that matter to me. So basically this is a thread to discuss AC Milan's tactics. Be it by analyzing the current tactics we use or by suggesting different tactical schemes
Lots of potential for quality posts. I know some posters have it in them so please try to focus your posting on something worthwhile instead of getting lost in forum trolling. Here we could try to analyze the way our team currently plays and in turn we'll all learn more about football and the way Milan plays. Also we could attempt suggestions on which tactical changes we think could help the team go forward. Important Notes: - Please don't discuss any tactics that include non-Milan players. Only discuss players on our current roster as this isn't a transfer thread. - Please, don't just suggest a formation. There is a particular thread for that. This thread is for tactics i.e. the strategy our team implements -or you think should implement- in attack and defense. This includes everything from attacking moves to defending set pieces. Posting "We should use 4-4-2" is not related to tactics. - Please, quality posts only. Don't just say something for the sake of it, try to add quality. Quality intelligent posters - go nuts. |
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#2 |
AC Milan Icon
Join Date: Dec 2007
Fav. Players: Clarence Clyde Seedorf
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Just posted this elsewhere but-
http://forum.acmilan-online.com/show...postcount=3218 Now I'm not in love with idea of moving Thiago from defense. Far from it. But if Mexes shows he can be the player he was pre-injury, and Nesta isn't hurt, we have to consider this a viable option. We lack CMs, but we do have 3 high quality CBs and one with capability of playing midfield. Until we solidify midfield with signings why not try it? -----------Zlatan ----Cassano--Robinho --MVB--Thiago--Aquilani Taiwo--Nesta--Mexes--Abate ----------Abbiati----------- Would be the Formation on paper, but as we attack I see it taking a shape of this. Nesta and Mexes as CBs spreading a bit. Thiago in a libero role like Roma have been using De Rossi. Let MVB stand put in center of pitch, doing his job, while Aquilani has a little more freedom from the right CM role (which he prefers) to spread play. Robinho would line up right, which isn't his preferred but he would roam, and be our forward most linking to defense. The combo playing off the right would take pressure of Abate to create all the width, and would give him more open channels to cross, something he does well when he's not heavily marked. On the left, Taiwo has freedom to attack the flank, especially with MVB. Cassano's interchange play has been good with both Robinho and Zlatan (when we playd all 3 together, the results weren't bad), and what Robinho allows him to do, which isn't happening now is not have to take the ball deep, where Cassano often loses it, and concentrate more around the bo with Zlatan. Now where is Pato/Nocerino? Nocerino can be used inplace of Cassano allowing it to be more of a pure 3-5-2 when we attack, it'd give us more defensive solidarity, but would take something away. A good option to close out games, we're leading. Pato on the otherhand can change games with his pace or we could use him at lead forward to play it over the top and use Zlatan in Cassano's role. Like I said, hardly in love with the concept, but with the options at hand it's foolish to not consider it. |
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#3 |
AC Milan Icon
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Leeds, England
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I'd go with 3 at the back before I'd consider Silva at CM, and actually with Abate and Taiwo it could work.
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#4 | |
AC Milan Icon
Join Date: Dec 2007
Fav. Players: Clarence Clyde Seedorf
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The downside of what I posted above is it buts a lot of pressure on Thiago, and to a degree... robinho/aquilani to link the attack without giving up too much position defensively but at some point... Milan's gotta think about taking the game to it's opposition as opposed to visa versa. Maybe moving Thiago for time being is the right answer (until proper mids who can do it come). Another thing I like about this, is it'd give us more legs between Thiago, Abate, Taiwo, Aquilani, Robinho all in positions to press. It might make sense to even drop Cassano for Boateng (who i forgot for some reason to press more. Let Boateng take 'Right AM' role and Robinho to left which he prefers.... Giving Boateng/Abate resonsbility of right flank and pressing there. Robinho/Taiwo/MVB resonsbility of Left flank pressing there, with MVB staying slightly deeper and more central. Thiago infront of defense as a Libero and Aquilani as a higher up CM, pressing there DMs (which he has done decently well) and on attack as the outlet and player who spreads all the play. Now that I think of it, that might be our best lineup. Time for 10 second diagram ( ![]() ![]() I think it could give us our best combo of work rate + defensive stability with technique. We'd have energy level to actually take the game to an opponent and retain posession. ![]() #RnB Last edited by Senatore_M84; 05-10-2011 at 00:34. |
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#5 | ||
AC Milan Icon
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Leeds, England
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When Robinho returns from injury, and presuming Cassano can stay in some kind of form I'd like to see what you posted first just with Boateng at CM, and Silva at the back. |
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#6 | |||
AC Milan Icon
Join Date: Dec 2007
Fav. Players: Clarence Clyde Seedorf
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Was Nesta lost for pace v. Messi or Vucinic? Did Nesta get lost v. Cisse? The big problem I saw happened v. tottenham when Milan's backline pushed way too high up and predictably, Lennon (who is faster than all of serie A) caught Nesta and Yepes. Yepes is a lot slower than Mexes. Even v. Lazio, first goal was a case of Klose being alone cause of unmarked crossing and Nesta by himself. The other problem thats happened isn't Nesta as much as it's the triangle of Nesta/MVB/Thiago infront of defense. Swapping MVB for Mexes is actually a bit more mobile, IF you keep Thiago in a discipline Libero-style role. Quote:
Again most problems IMO this year result to milan's inability to hold posession and MVB, Nesta AND Thiago being stuck in miles of pace on counters. Thiago can recover the best, but at same time he struggles too, no defender is at their best when running full speed to catch someone else's error. Finally Boateng wasn't woeful in a more advanced role. Actually he played well, when the CMs could hold posession and play it over the top to Robinho or Zlatan and let him run in. Milan's current problem stems from fact they can't control the ball in midfield and play it over the top (along with Robinho being gone and Zlatan being half-fit) Quote:
To say Milan should make this a top choice tactic is presumptuous on my part. Just an idea, I'd experiment v. the easier part of schedule. |
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#7 | ||
AC Milan Icon
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Leeds, England
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I think Silva compliments Nesta perfectly, Mexes might not work quite as well. Quote:
Aquilani's yet to be given a real chance anyway, he's not all that Milan need, but I think he can go someway to improving the problems in midfield, just needs a run in the team to show it. I don't think Boateng's good enough as an AM, he's got the work rate, and he generally makes the right runs but he's too poor technically and tends to make some pretty poor decisions, I think he'd be best as a box to box CM. |
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#8 |
Maldini tier
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mt. Paektu
Fav. Players: 3; Marat Safin; Tiziano Crudeli; 2Pac; Christian Bale; Martin M??rsepp; Balotelli, Michael Avenatti
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We should use decagon.
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#9 |
Capocannoniere
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Johannesburg
Fav. Players: Nesta, Maldini, Buffon, Rino*Pirlo*Clarence, Sheva, Totti, Ibra, Pippo, Giacomo, Carlo, Il Dottore
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Kalac#16 speaks complete sense. Removing Silva from central defense is folly - because he's our best player there AND because I did not think he was that great in midfield, as the "next-Desailly!!!" commentators made him out to be.
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#10 |
Phase 2
Join Date: Aug 2008
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Thiago silva is wasted as a DM, he does the job but he should only play there when MVB needs rest (assuming ambrosini is injured)
I'd suggest that Milan play aquilani on the right limiting abate from attacking, MVB as the anchor man, seedorf on the left side with taiwo behind him and robinho behind ibra and cassano/pato I'd play nocerino on the left as well, but that would give taiwo attacking freedom with nocerino playing on his preferred left side and covering him. Aquilani MVB Seedorf/nocerino Robinho problem is, Milan don't have the quality depth to do this unless quality midfielders are signed, so if one of those players gets injured we are stuck with the likes of rino, urby and boateng, all who are technically limited, and urby just simply doesn't fit Milan unless its at LCM with a ball player playing in the staring XI. playing a midfield of aquilani/mvb/seedorf/robinho would ensure Milan get the movement/work rate/passing ability they need + the midfield wouldn't have problems playing the ball if they are getting pressed. |
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#11 |
Moderator
Join Date: May 2006
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The role of the AM in Allegri's Milan.
In attack: ![]() Shape 1 - The whole team pushes forward. Nesta and Silva create a very high line defense and start the attack with short possession, the team maintains its on paper shape, except for the front three. Robinho drifts wide to the left, with Boateng drifting to the right, and Ibra dropping back in the space left by Boateng. This shape is mainly used when trying to press the opposition and to score. It is usually attempted early on vs minnows to try to kill off the game, or when trying to level the score or score a late winner. ![]() Shape 2 - Milan starts an attack with van Bommel shifting just a little bit to the left as Seedorf advances while Rino drops off almost as a second anchor, Robinho moves wide to the left, while Boateng moves to the right thus creating a 4-3-3 shape for us. This is a more balanced shape with the defense sitting deeper and thus offering more security. Generally used when trying to control the tempo. In defense: ![]() Shape 1 - van Bommel drops very deep. With Rino and Seedorf stretching wide to press on the opponents flankers, while Robinho and Boateng move inside to press the opponents defenders or anchors. That is the normal defensive shape of the team. ![]() Shape 2 - Boateng drops back wide right, thus switching the team's shape to a classic 4-4-2. Rino and van Bommel become anchors with Seedorf and Boateng on either wing. Robinho also drops further back to put pressure on the opponent's anchor or advanced center defender. This shape is used when trying to shut up shop and keep the score the way it is. Mainly used near the end of big games when Milan are up. -- By observing these various shapes, it is easy to conclude that the AM in Allegri's system isn't a playmaker nor a creator, he is simply a runner that has a lot of energy and could create space for his team-mates when attacking, and limit space for the opponents when defending. This explains Allegri's reluctance to use Aquilani or Seedorf in that position, and his insistence on Boateng and Emanuelson who aren't natural creators. |
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#12 |
#9
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: The Netherlands
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very nice post.
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#13 |
Capocannoniere
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Johannesburg
Fav. Players: Nesta, Maldini, Buffon, Rino*Pirlo*Clarence, Sheva, Totti, Ibra, Pippo, Giacomo, Carlo, Il Dottore
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#14 |
#IBelieve
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: USA
Fav. Players: Zlatan, Balotelli, Verratti
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I agree with the post, but maybe thats what our problem is...
A runner in the CAM position would work if we had creativity in our midfield (Pirlo, Xavi, Nasri, etc.) but since we really dont, maybe we need the extra creativity from Robinho in the CAM spot. I understand where Allegri is going with Boateng there, but until we have a quality mid, I dont think it is the right choice. |
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#15 | |
AC Milan Icon
Join Date: Dec 2007
Fav. Players: Clarence Clyde Seedorf
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That's why it doesn't work with Robinho is AM with Pato/Ibra. Cause Pato cannot take that wide position consistently well. Where as Cassano loves to take that position, particularly off the left side, and Robinho (unlike Boateng) can drop deep and collect ball effectively. But in actuality when we used the Robinho/Cassano/Ibra tri-dent it worked reasonably well (small sample of games). We did actually win all 4 games, combine 9 goals, 1 conceded- http://www.football-lineups.com/match/91537/ http://www.football-lineups.com/match/83945/ http://www.football-lineups.com/match/83954/ http://www.football-lineups.com/match/83992/ Granted the 3-0 win over Bari was coppa italia and the Chievo game was won with that awesome Pato solo effort.... |
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#16 | ||
AC Milan Icon
Join Date: Dec 2007
Fav. Players: Clarence Clyde Seedorf
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Again I don't like the idea of moving a proven class CB, but we cannot overlook the fact our midfield is SO devoid of energy and ability to hold possession, that both Thiago and Nesta have looked poor this year for large stretches because of being under constant pressure. Mexes as a central defender (if he is back to his form, post injury, which is of course... to be determined.... but for arguments sake, lets assume he can get there).... Mexes as a central defender is better than majority of our midfield as midfielders. I'd think long and hard about Thiago in midfield to accomodate Mexes UNTIL proper midfield replacements come. We're just being overrun too hard in midfield that the whole nesta-silva partnership is being wasted. Quote:
the whole idea of when Milan attack and an 'ajax style' 3-3-3-1 isn't far fetched... ------------Zlatan------------ Robinho---Aquilani----Boateng Taiwo-------MVB--------Abate --Mexes----Nesta---Thiago and in defense a bit more of a... ---------Zlatan ---Robinho--Boateng --MVB--Thiago--Aquilani Taiwo--Nesta--Mexes--Abate Overlooking the whole "nesta/Silva' partnership... nesta/mexes could easily form a good one and with MVB/Thiago infront they'd get tested a lot less and it'd hold posession better I just think that's a combo of milans' best 11 players (subbing seedorf for Aquilani on form, and maybe Cassan/Pato mixed in for same reasons) and you gotta find a way to make it work on the field. Stubbornness over a 'fixed formation/tactic' shouldn't be an option for Allegri now. He doesn't have Barca or Madrid squad where he can dictate tactic and pick players who fit it best. ![]() #RnB Last edited by Senatore_M84; 05-10-2011 at 20:08. |
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#17 | ||
Capocannoniere
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Johannesburg
Fav. Players: Nesta, Maldini, Buffon, Rino*Pirlo*Clarence, Sheva, Totti, Ibra, Pippo, Giacomo, Carlo, Il Dottore
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So the difference is, I trust our midfielders to suck less than the potential suckiness of Mexes at CB and Silva at CM. Aquilani, van Bommel and Nocerino can hold fort well once they get used to each other. |
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#18 | ||
AC Milan Icon
Join Date: Dec 2007
Fav. Players: Clarence Clyde Seedorf
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He doesn't provide anything special in either asset of the game. Our midfield has just been so terrible, it'd worth looking at Thiago there. He can atleast help us hold possession and dictate play better, and that by default will keep the backline under less pressure. Quote:
That might actually provide the service Pato could thrive on. Of course it means dropping Ibrahimovic, which, well.... ![]() #RnB Last edited by Senatore_M84; 05-10-2011 at 20:12. |
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#19 |
Super Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2009
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The shape of the team is very lopsided actually. It maybe doesn't look so much cause the midfield in defense, pressing and deep possession look like a very clear diamond shape. The team defend narrow and keep the shape. Our AM is assigned to face the deep central midfielder of the opposition.
But the difference between our CM's when in possession is huge. Seedorf is allowed to go very central or very wide and attacks much more (it was very clear we don't attack as a diamond when Aquilani played LCM against Lazio). Gattuso moves in relation to Van Bommel mostly. This is why our AM has to move to compensate the shape. It's kinda of what Elano did for Dunga's team, but Boateng does from a more advanced position but with permission to change side and so on. It's also a issue for the fullbacks, cause they have to read the game before move forward. The positive I see on that is that it maximizes Ibra and also Seedorf. He reborned as a player in this role last season. And I still think Aquilani can do it very well. Boateng drive proved to be very useful and Milan benefited from his physicality. |
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#20 |
Photoshop Lieutenant
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Skopje, Macedonia
Fav. Players: KAKA-Pandev-PATO
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The injuries did hit as in the time that is very crucial. Playing with all of the scudetto "contenders" in a row did made some difference and doubts to allegri`s capabilities.
Trying to win the possession with teams like juve that attack fast and fielding wide formation with seedrof left and boateng right was really missout considering that they have no fast fullbacks in bonera and zambrota and no pure AM to balance the wide formation was crucial. MVB was actually AM as i didnt see much passes from him central to cassano. MVB is a destructor, as his place is in nocerinos boot, and MVB`s place is for Aquilani. I think that we will stick more to that "wide" 4-3-1-2 formation for a while. if thats so i like to see fullback (taiwo behind seedorf and abate behind boateng) runing the flanks and also cant wait to see robinho behind pato and zlatan. For me this is the best we can have till january. ![]() ![]() Last edited by Demerio; 06-10-2011 at 01:54. |
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