International Friendlies
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SpartanMilan
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Alves off, PK for Mexico
SpartanMilan
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and Jefferson saves it!
yagami7gnr
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Brazil was the better team but Alves
Brazil had more possession but it was not the better team. Alves should never play another game for Brazil NT anymore. He can pull that crap in Barcelona and not be called a foul.
I repeat again Neymar is Brazil's Cristiano Ronaldo. I would never like to see either of them wearing the Milan jersey.
SpartanMilan
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Brazil needs better linkup play, I think Kaka should get recalled, and I think they will look better when Robinho is healthy, he is a much better option than Neymar right now.
what does the Brazilian FA have against Hernanes? it seems like he has gotten far fewer chances than a player of his ability should have received, I think he should be starting for them
what does the Brazilian FA have against Hernanes? it seems like he has gotten far fewer chances than a player of his ability should have received, I think he should be starting for them
yagami7gnr
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Nice goal by dinho but still they are sucking badly.
yagami7gnr
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I think he pulled his inner Felipe Melo in his friendly against France which it was really a stupid play by Hernanes.
Still, he shouldn't be ostracized for one incident. Come on the guy deserves more opportunities.
yagami7gnr
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I did not say that he does not deserve an opportunity. I saw him play for Lazio last season and I think he is a great player. I thought that the foul he committed was out of character but terribly stupid.
Goodfella
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Mexico:
Population 112 million
Great/good players: 4..Chicharito, 32 year old Marquez, Guardado and Tottenham's constanly loaned out dos Santos
Uruguay:
Population: 3.5 million
Great/good players: 9 (Suarez, Forlan, Cavani, Perreira, Lugano, A.Hernandez, Gargano, Coates, Muslera)
How is this possible? Mexico can't blame it on lack of interest in football in the country. Mexico has the population, football culture and the segregated society to compete with Argentina and Brazil.
Population 112 million
Great/good players: 4..Chicharito, 32 year old Marquez, Guardado and Tottenham's constanly loaned out dos Santos
Uruguay:
Population: 3.5 million
Great/good players: 9 (Suarez, Forlan, Cavani, Perreira, Lugano, A.Hernandez, Gargano, Coates, Muslera)
How is this possible? Mexico can't blame it on lack of interest in football in the country. Mexico has the population, football culture and the segregated society to compete with Argentina and Brazil.
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SpartanMilan
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I dont think that is really a fair comparison, Uruguay is in the middle of a Golden Generation, they have the best population to quality players ratio of any nation in the world right now
yagami7gnr
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If we talk about technical talent Argentina and Brazil are million of miles ahead of Mexico plus they overhype their NT in every world cup I remember.
SpartanMilan
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Mexico would get an instant upgrade by switching back to their '98 WC kits, easily one of the coolest ever
Goodfella
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Yeah, maybe a bit unfair to pick Uruguay but try to switch it with Argentina with it's 40 million population. Doesn't matter which generation, Argentina are superior to Mexico.
FaRa13
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population doesnt matter, its football culture-like you mentioned. If it were stricltly population, india, indonesia, and china would be world class
SpartanMilan
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well it is an interesting issue to look into for sure why some nations continue to stay near or at the top of international football (Brazil is the biggest example, but Italy, Germany, and Argentina also qualify I think) while others even with strong football culture dont, or at least not consistently, like Mexico or even the UK
I would guess there has to be a big element of how players are developed, and luck and chance are huge parts of that too, two examples- Torres wanted to play GK as a kid and I believe his mother made him play striker, so that could be a potential WC player down, and I read that Ibra enjoyed working on the docks when he was young and had to be persuaded to play football. who knows how many potential WC players have taken the other path that has kept them from becoming great players
Senatore_M84
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No offense, you don't really know much about mexico. Aside from Chicarito/Marquez, i don't even think they have there best players...
Mexican league is highest paying league outside the top 4 in europe.
Ok Gio has started performing very well for national team and has world class potential. He just needs to move to a new club.
But aside from those...
-Pablo Berrera (plays for Zaragoza) is better than Guardado
-Salcido... VERY good left back
-Ochoa, IMO hugely overrated in north america (you have no clue how mexicans jizz over him being 'next cassillas' but he is a pretty good keeper none the less)
-Agular, good defender
-Torrado, i fucking HATe, dirty bastard but a very good DM
I could keep going but know, they almost all play in mexico for club america, Chivas, Pachuca, UNAM etc.
Keep in mind these clubs go play Copa Libertadores. Which means regular 9+ hour flights (mexico city or Guadalajara to Sao Paolo is 9.5 hours) do it midweek and perform. They almost always get out of the group stages. Chivas got ot Copa Libertadores final in 2010, atleast 1 mexican teams will always reach quarters or beyond... Thats NOT easy considering travel and unfamiliarity.
Make no mistake, mexico'sissues are mostly to do with coaching and constant hiring/firing and politics. But when they are set up well, they dominate the region, and have arrogance. They wanna only be considered v. Brazil/Argentina/South american teans, and they are talented enough to always reach last 16 and beyond in World cup. It's NOT a talent issue.
crazy4milan
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I do think that considering that considering the quantity of people + quantity and diversity of resources available for football + the football crazed culture that exists there (+ the competitiveness of their championship), Mexico should be among the top of the top. It's something I've discussed to death in here.
BUT that doesn't mean they just have 4 great/good players, I understand now Uruguay is the "in" team (and I love them and footballing wise I loathe Mexico), but easily Mexico has players on the level of Pereira, Hernández, Coates, Muslera, or even better, and they have always had them (Carlos Hermosillo, Blanco, Luis Hernández, Davino, Garcia Aspe, Huguito...).
And there's so many factors comming into play that affects Mexico...The issue as said above me is that their league has always paid their players too well so they don't like going out, it has changed a bit (specially cause of the insecurity levels existing in Mexico), but players still have really good conditions to stay in Mexico (their home at the end of the day).
And to be fair their players have never really had the best biotype (which is part of the roots, and I know it, we have in part similar roots, as well as most of central america, mexicans are usually known to be "chaparritos"-been to DF at age 15, I'm tiny, I was taller than 70% of the people I saw there- and if you notice they're not great atheletes, like most in this region), it's changing in newer generations, but you can still see that their not exactly the type of players european teams are craving for (in terms of body shape).
Oh and the most important thing is that, and they'll be the first ones to tell you, they're playing in Concacaf, and to a point it not only doesn't help their reputation, in terms of competition it's also not the best of places to be if you're a good footballing nation. Uruguay not plays in Conmebol but has the blessing of being between the two greatest football super powers in the continent and among the top 5 ever, which does help.
btw...Barrera is Mexico's best player currently.
Also watch out for their last U17 stars, many are already under the radar of European teams.
BUT that doesn't mean they just have 4 great/good players, I understand now Uruguay is the "in" team (and I love them and footballing wise I loathe Mexico), but easily Mexico has players on the level of Pereira, Hernández, Coates, Muslera, or even better, and they have always had them (Carlos Hermosillo, Blanco, Luis Hernández, Davino, Garcia Aspe, Huguito...).
And there's so many factors comming into play that affects Mexico...The issue as said above me is that their league has always paid their players too well so they don't like going out, it has changed a bit (specially cause of the insecurity levels existing in Mexico), but players still have really good conditions to stay in Mexico (their home at the end of the day).
And to be fair their players have never really had the best biotype (which is part of the roots, and I know it, we have in part similar roots, as well as most of central america, mexicans are usually known to be "chaparritos"-been to DF at age 15, I'm tiny, I was taller than 70% of the people I saw there- and if you notice they're not great atheletes, like most in this region), it's changing in newer generations, but you can still see that their not exactly the type of players european teams are craving for (in terms of body shape).
Oh and the most important thing is that, and they'll be the first ones to tell you, they're playing in Concacaf, and to a point it not only doesn't help their reputation, in terms of competition it's also not the best of places to be if you're a good footballing nation. Uruguay not plays in Conmebol but has the blessing of being between the two greatest football super powers in the continent and among the top 5 ever, which does help.
btw...Barrera is Mexico's best player currently.
Also watch out for their last U17 stars, many are already under the radar of European teams.
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The last few Mexico teams in WC's were very poor in my opinion. Like a poor man's Spain. Too much tiki taka, too few direct plays. Of course they will not achieve to take the game from superior skilled teams that way.
Goodfella
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True. That's why I brought this up. To see if there are some important factors I've missed.
I knew they had a pretty big league and thought it might have something to do with them not having many well-known players, but didn't know they earned that much.
Not a talent issue? Do Mexico have any player who's as talented as Messi, Aguero, Higuain, Tevez, Di Maria or Pastore besides maybe Chicharito?
I admit I don't know much about most of the Mexican NT players, especially the ones who're not in Europe, but you're saying all this is mainly due to bad coaching of the NT? That probably has some part in it, but if they were as talented as you claim them to be, surely they would've passed the round of 16 more often than they do? Didn't they get owned by Maradona's Argentina in WC 2010? I don't think Argentina being tactically disciplined was the biggest difference between them.
Those players you mentioned are probably good and better than a few of the Uruguayans I mentioned, but is that it? Argentina, Brazil and Spain have enough talented players to create 10 to 20-30 different lineups only consisting of good or great players.
Then the Mexican league should have lots of WC and great players if they don't have a talent issue, which they have not according to Senatore. Braida should take more trips to Mexico.
I figured this might have something to do with it. I read the average height among Mexican males was 163cm. Argentinians are generally much taller, most likely because Amerindian ancestry is less common among them and the country have a better living standard(=better nutrition). Brazilians seem to, genetically speaking, have a perfect mix of West African, European and Amerindian ancestry. But that shouldn't stop Mexico from producing midgets a la Messi and Aguero who can dribble through a whole team(they probably have many of those, but not on the same level as Messi, Aguero, Tevez or D Silva). Also, the European Mexicans aren't few exactly and I don't think they're that much shorter or different to the European Uruguayans.
Better than Chicharito?
Why is West Ham sending him to Zaragoza then? (I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, I haven't seen the guy play)
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Goodfella
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I also think he is a bit overrated. 10th best player of the 10/11 season according to goal.com
Didn't know Mexico had any better though.
crazy4milan
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They're not on that level that's true, but they do have good quality, just cause they lack a Messi (to be fair so does Argentina), Aguero, etc. doesn't mean they just have 4 good players.
Mexico had lots of inside issues for the last WC (and the qualifiers). You have no idea the pressure the big guns in their football like Televisa or Jorge Vergara have, its enough to screw around a process. Mexico in the last WC went with lots of internal problems, starting with issues with their coach, and tbf, you could see it wasn't a WC meant to be for them to anything big (it was obvious from the qualifiers on). They had a generational issue with stalled potential (the team that won the U17 WC in 05') + oldies. There simply wasn't a feeling (yet Argentina did need a super offside goal to break the result in the second round, didn't they?).
However, lets get back to their WCs since 86', their consistenly qualifying to the second round (1990 they were suspended from the qualifiers son not counting that), beating or drawing or making life difficult for the best teams (Argentina-Mexico 2006 anyone? Holland-Mexico 1998? Italy-Mexico in 94 and 2002? Germany in 1998?), and whenever they took their best teams to Copa America they qualified to the semifinals, going to the finals several times, eventhough it's not their ground.
Football is made of small moments too, Uruguay has taken the biggest advantage out of it, they were just a missed shot + help from their own press away from getting eliminated by the 4th team in Concacaf, but it didn't happened, they made their best in the WC and from there on they built a super team.
They've been able to have some of the best players in the continent that aren't from Argentina or Brazil (who obviously won't move to Mexico since just by being from where they are they'll get their chances). Camoranessi before going to Italy was playing in Cruz Azul for ex. Salvador Cabañas from América was Paraguay's best player. That said, after Brazil + Argentina, Mexico's league is the best in the continent.Then the Mexican league should have lots of WC and great players if they don't have a talent issue, which they have not according to Senatore. Braida should take more trips to Mexico.
Yeah they got rid of their natives back in the later years of the XIX century, nrought in lots of europeans as part of their inmigration policies to populate the country with what was racially accepted back then. Not that some didn't survive from that massive killing spree...
Some countries are just lucky, I mean, even if they did "inveted" football, England just hasn't produced the same level of talents as Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy. They have had produce some, but not that many. And sometimes is a generation of talents simply and Mexico hasn't been able to get there yet (unlike current Spain).
It also has to do with the policies the country has taken, I think after the 80's under Felipe Gonzalez Spain decided to put lots of resources and efforts on policies for sports and that's why today Spain seems to be so good at sports (that and their Eastern Germany methods
). Geez I guess at the end the fact that they have no Messi's, or Maradona's or Aguero's (though they have had produced some, like Hugo Sánchez) it's just a testament of Mexico's history. Mexico actually has everything to be a super power in the world today, and back after they got their independence...series of screwed ups, corruption, failed moments, bad luck (all this can be sumed up in "California"). They're a sleeping giant, that just doesn't seem to be able to give the right steps.
Because teams make mistakes. West Ham are in second division anyway, Zaragoza in first, it's better for him (and note I believe Spain is a better place for Mexican players due to cultural ties and game style).Better than Chicharito?
Goodfella
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He should be playing in a top club is he's that good. There should be a couple of clubs who are ready to buy him for more than 15 m euros.
Thanks for the replies. Very informative
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Do you think he is "a more talented version of Inzaghi" and also nothing special
yeh, inzaghi isn't special.
Do you think he is "a more talented version of Inzaghi" and also nothing special
Nothing special meaning he is pretty limited. He has great movement and is a good scorer like Inzaghi but he has nothing else in his game. Don't hate those type of players but there are not my preferred strikers.
Senatore_M84
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it's underrated how much a player like that can creat goals w/o ever touching the ball though...
constantly toying with defenders going wide, pushing line, creating space cause they have to be watched.
I mean all defenders (and even coaches like Mourinho) say they fear Pippo the most, cause he causes havok w/o the ball.