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Old 24-03-2010, 19:32   #121
Sheva0172
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Messi + Riquelme was gold on the Copa America.


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Old 24-03-2010, 19:35   #122
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Originally Posted by crazy4milan View Post
Uhm, Messi was already average/bad under Basile (I clearly remember a game vs Peru were Vargas, not a defender, owned him all 90 minutes). In fact he is so bad with Argentina that even if football is the king of sports for them, and an argie winning the Ballon D'Or, CL, Fifa WP, etc, should no matter what be recognize as the sports figure of the country in the year, they gave that recognition to Del Potro.
heightism...



I know thats not Messi but you get idea....


Also another reason Del Potro got it over Messi. Del Potro's Girlfriend

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His position isn't exactly one that will move the strings of the team, that will make a team champs just because of his presence, for Barcelona he is important right now cause he is scoring the goals, but play make and all, they can go on without him. And Argentina right now doesn't have a playmaker, and Messi needs those playmakers to make his typical runs + dribbles (oh yes, that said most of the NTs Argentina has faced, don't give the huge spaces that they usually leave for Messi to run with the ball which is when he becomes highly dangerous).
I don't think they lack a playmaker as much as the spacing physicality. Veron, Lucho r wildly underrated and always play well for NT...

The issue is South American football resembles italy more than spain. Watch south americans play, physical, dirty, no space. Then go watch barca play in spain, it's like teams feel honored to be raped by barca. I know what i'd do if i played against barca and it's exactly what mourinho or capello would do... stay organized and beat the shit out of them physically


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB

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Old 24-03-2010, 19:36   #123
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Originally Posted by Sheva0172 View Post
Messi + Riquelme was gold on the Copa America.
it was all riquelme IMO. He was the argentine national team. but when he was marked out, they lost badly to brazil


Crespo was awesome in the 2007 copa america too till he got hurt


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 24-03-2010, 19:38   #124
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was this written after that game against estudiantes ? lol

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Old 24-03-2010, 19:43   #125
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was this written after that game against estudiantes ? lol
Oh yes, they didn't like that either, they were actually hurt, like "dude you're from Argentina, you can't celebrate against anything from your own country" (I think it's a huge exaggeration, but they are like that).
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Old 24-03-2010, 19:44   #126
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was this written after that game against estudiantes ? lol

probably after scoring a goal with his chest in extra time in club world cup.


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Old 24-03-2010, 19:49   #127
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Oh yes, they didn't like that either, they were actually hurt, like "dude you're from Argentina, you can't celebrate against anything from your own country" (I think it's a huge exaggeration, but they are like that).
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Old 24-03-2010, 19:49   #128
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1 thing i hate is people wanna discredit maradonna, ronaldo or now cristiano ronaldo for being more physical as if it's cheating and messi is more pure cause he isn't as phyiscal.

Being able to stand up to midfield henchmen like u see in south america or italy (for ex) like maradonna and ronaldo could do w/ such strength on the ball is incredibly underrated SKILL to have. It's not that easy to hold ur balance when someone is pushing u or be able to dribble when holding someone off w/ all ur strength. Or how szidane could hold people off and still dribble and has vision to see someone up the field... IMO thats much harder than showing some cross over technique on a defender who sits 5 ft off you 'out of fear'


I've seen Messi play one way world class, and thats it... in certain types of games where he has space to put his technique to use. But he needs to show me he can do it vs. other types of play and w/ other teams (like his NT) to really convince me in anyway he's best player in world now, much less deserves any sort of credit as best ever.


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 24-03-2010, 20:05   #129
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1 thing i hate is people wanna discredit maradonna, ronaldo or now cristiano ronaldo for being more physical as if it's cheating and messi is more pure cause he isn't as phyiscal.

Being able to stand up to midfield henchmen like u see in south america or italy (for ex) like maradonna and ronaldo could do w/ such strength on the ball is incredibly underrated SKILL to have. It's not that easy to hold ur balance when someone is pushing u or be able to dribble when holding someone off w/ all ur strength. Or how szidane could hold people off and still dribble and has vision to see someone up the field... IMO thats much harder than showing some cross over technique on a defender who sits 5 ft off you 'out of fear'


I've seen Messi play one way world class, and thats it... in certain types of games where he has space to put his technique to use. But he needs to show me he can do it vs. other types of play and w/ other teams (like his NT) to really convince me in anyway he's best player in world now, much less deserves any sort of credit as best ever.
who dicsredited them??

critiano still has to do that aswell.


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Old 24-03-2010, 20:09   #130
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1 thing i hate is people wanna discredit maradonna, ronaldo or now cristiano ronaldo for being more physical as if it's cheating and messi is more pure cause he isn't as phyiscal.

Being able to stand up to midfield henchmen like u see in south america or italy (for ex) like maradonna and ronaldo could do w/ such strength on the ball is incredibly underrated SKILL to have. It's not that easy to hold ur balance when someone is pushing u or be able to dribble when holding someone off w/ all ur strength. Or how szidane could hold people off and still dribble and has vision to see someone up the field... IMO thats much harder than showing some cross over technique on a defender who sits 5 ft off you 'out of fear'


I've seen Messi play one way world class, and thats it... in certain types of games where he has space to put his technique to use. But he needs to show me he can do it vs. other types of play and w/ other teams (like his NT) to really convince me in anyway he's best player in world now, much less deserves any sort of credit as best ever.
+1.

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who dicsredited them??

critiano still has to do that aswell.
I agree he has to do something more and carry the team (though talent wise, Portugal is fairly behind Argentina, so it should be easier for Messi), but he already was part and played and was important for 4th place in the WC. And also had some impact in the 2004 Euro. Much more than anything Messi has done for Argentina already.
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Old 24-03-2010, 20:10   #131
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So a player cant b great unless he does good with his national team ?
I guess Maldini shouldnt b legend coz he didnt do great with Italy.
Maldini is a legend & his that is done with Milan , a football team.
And I never claimed Messi is already a legend.
All am saying is that we shouldnt ask him to pull a Maradona to join the legend list.
Am also saying he is 22-23 & that its great for him that he is already half the way to become among the best players in the world.

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+1.


I agree he has to do something more and carry the team (though talent wise, Portugal is fairly behind Argentina, so it should be easier for Messi), but he already was part and played and was important for 4th place in the WC. And also had some impact in the 2004 Euro. Much more than anything Messi has done for Argentina already.
The same goes for CR & all the candidate to become world's greatest so what ur or his point ?
Messi is 22 & he has already win big titles with his team while giving a big contribution.
Why does he need to do more than having a big contribution in wining titles with his team ?
Did Maldini singly won Milan titles ? NO.
Did Maldini win big things with Italty ? NO.
Is Maldini a legend + belong to Maradona - Pele - Zidane - Ronaldo's status ? FUCKING YEAH.


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Old 24-03-2010, 20:16   #132
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+1.


I agree he has to do something more and carry the team (though talent wise, Portugal is fairly behind Argentina, so it should be easier for Messi), but he already was part and played and was important for 4th place in the WC. And also had some impact in the 2004 Euro. Much more than anything Messi has done for Argentina already.
still both of them need a worldcup if they are to be grouped or pass pele, maradona zidane and ronaldo.

u have to understand that im not trying to take away anything from ronaldo, he is a great player (i dont like him) but i have respect for him.but based on the last season messi was better , this season messi so far is still better, if any of them want to be true legends they nedd a worldcup. messi is 22. has more time than ronaldo to achieve it, will he?? no one knows.

i said it before, the world player of the year will be the one who will shine at the WC.i think because england have a better squad and if they can play good it could be rooney who will get it..even kaka could get it if he picks up his game from now till the end of season and lead his country to the WC.


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Old 24-03-2010, 20:18   #133
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i said it before, the world player of the year will be the one who will shine at the WC.
i think because england have a better squad and if they can play good it could be rooney who will get it..even kaka could get it if he picks up his game from now till the end of season and lead his country to the WC.
que calum's favorite argument:



(prediction: England will win world cup, rooney will win balon d'or)


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 24-03-2010, 20:23   #134
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Well as I said CR has to prove something more but he has already done way more and has had more impact than Messi for their NTs. That said, the thing it's not that "he isn't winning stuff with the NT" shit happens there, but rather that, at least for me, it shows that he isn't the important player that he is made out to be, he is a great footballer no doubt, but to be the best you have to be important and great. I'll give you that right now for Barcelona he is important cause he is scoring the goals, but game wise, the important guys there are Xavi and Iniesta, in fact if Zlatan adapts better, they can live without Messi, but it won't be the same if both Xavi and Iniesta are missing (and at times even if one of them is). In Argentina he just shows that, and without the enourmous space he is usually given by teams in Spain and crappy CL teams (or pendejos/sissies like ManU), he is a normal player. Sure he has great skill, but hey, south american defenders are rough, and they don't like to give space nor play nice to you.

It's not that he does awesome with Argentina and the rest of the team fails, it's that he is truely crap for Argentina, and he is the one that supposly has to carry them, so they fail.
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Old 24-03-2010, 20:33   #135
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off the topic mods


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Old 24-03-2010, 20:38   #136
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Well as I said CR has to prove something more but he has already done way more and has had more impact than Messi for their NTs. That said, the thing it's not that "he isn't winning stuff with the NT" shit happens there, but rather that, at least for me, it shows that he isn't the important player that he is made out to be, he is a great footballer no doubt, but to be the best you have to be important and great. I'll give you that right now for Barcelona he is important cause he is scoring the goals, but game wise, the important guys there are Xavi and Iniesta, in fact if Zlatan adapts better, they can live without Messi, but it won't be the same if both Xavi and Iniesta are missing (and at times even if one of them is). In Argentina he just shows that, and without the enourmous space he is usually given by teams in Spain and crappy CL teams (or pendejos/sissies like ManU), he is a normal player. Sure he has great skill, but hey, south american defenders are rough, and they don't like to give space nor play nice to you.

It's not that he does awesome with Argentina and the rest of the team fails, it's that he is truely crap for Argentina, and he is the one that supposly has to carry them, so they fail.
xavi hasnt played for a couple fo game and iniesta doesnt hold a first 11 start anymore, messi is very important to barca, the club thinks he is very important to barca, the coach thinks he is very important to barca, he teammates think he is very important to barca, and for me a player who dribble past 5 defenders and score would be a very important player.

if u think messi isnt important to barca, then ronaldo isnt important to real, higiuan is important as he is scoring the goals.see how that doesnt sound right, thats the same as saying sheva wasnt important for milan, it was rui costa, kaka, and pirlo who were important but when he left so did the goals.

like i said messi still has alot to prove to be truly the best ever and that would mean worldcups aswell, but he is great and a legend , because if he wasnt then like WILD said maldini wouldnt be a legend.


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Old 24-03-2010, 20:39   #137
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So in a way if he ends his career with big contribution in winning Barca 6 CLs + 6 league titles & cups here n there then he shouldnt b considered a legend ?
And Maradona who won 2 big titles > 12 big titles ?
Thats unfair.
Regardless of the circumstances (Xavi , etc , etc) , Messi is doing better than CR.
The "if" posts can go both ways.


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Old 24-03-2010, 20:42   #138
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So in a way if he ends his career with big contribution in winning Barca 6 CLs + 6 league titles & cups here n there then he shouldnt b considered a legend ?
And Maradona who won 2 big titles > 12 big titles ?
Thats unfair.
Regardless of the circumstances (Xavi , etc , etc) , Messi is doing better than CR.
The "if" posts can go both ways.
well we'll see. When you saw ronaldo at 19 you thought he'd get 6 cl's and league titles too


But I disagree with Messi>CR9 at this point in there career. Count the titles...

3 EPL titles, 1 CL, 1 CL final, 1 balon d'or, 3 time EPL player of year, don't wannago into demoestic cups either but yeah

so far messi has only led to 1 league, 1 cl..... i mean if u wanna credit him 2006 you can, buthe was a periphery player. It's almost like saying Aubemayang is 1 of best young stirkers inworld.. won a CL!


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 24-03-2010, 20:50   #139
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he isn't the important player that he is made out to be, he is a great footballer no doubt, but to be the best you have to be important and great. I'll give you that right now for Barcelona he is important cause he is scoring the goals, but game wise, the important guys there are Xavi and Iniesta, in fact if Zlatan adapts better, they can live without Messi, but it won't be the same if both Xavi and Iniesta are missing (and at times even if one of them is).
you are way underestimating Messi's influence on Barca's play, particularly this season when both Ibra & Henry have basically been shit (Ibra had a good period at the beginning, but slumped since then). Xavi & Don Andres can move the ball around and have possession all they can, but football is in the end about creating chances and scoring goals, and Messi is crucial in that sense. He has become amazingly clinical this season (25 goals in 24 starts in Primera is just crazy), and is the only player in the team who you can count on scoring regularly for the team. Your point would be valid for last season when Eto'o and Henry were on a scoring roll, but now Barca desperately needs Messi to stay fit in order to win anything this season.
Btw - Barca - Stuttgart 3:0 (no Xavi)
Zaragoza - Barca 2:4 (no Xavi & Iniesta in the starting 11)

I'm actually fine with your point that Xavi & Iniesta are the ones who make Barca so special in terms of football style they're playing and their absence is always felt, but saying Messi is not as crucial as them for the team is just wrong, this season especially.

And really, about all this talk for NT - Messi is f...n 22 years old! He is certainly not the best football player in the history (as ridiculous Spanish press are already proclaiming him to be), but he has also not deserved to be called a flop in NT. Most players get their debut in his age and gradually blend into the team to show their best for NT in later stages of their career.
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Old 24-03-2010, 20:59   #140
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well we'll see. When you saw ronaldo at 19 you thought he'd get 6 cl's and league titles too


But I disagree with Messi>CR9 at this point in there career. Count the titles...

3 EPL titles, 1 CL, 1 CL final, 1 balon d'or, 3 time EPL player of year, don't wannago into demoestic cups either but yeah

so far messi has only led to 1 league, 1 cl..... i mean if u wanna credit him 2006 you can, buthe was a periphery player. It's almost like saying Aubemayang is 1 of best young stirkers inworld.. won a CL!
I wont argue with that since CR vs Messi is debatable & my point is .......... it can easily goes both ways.
But ppl in here saying its stupid to say Messi is a great player or he is #1 while its very ok to say that about CR.
The fact that Messi is younger = more time to achieve more.


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