Official: Zlatan Ibrahimović Thread II

FredX

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And I also pointed out that easy draws and tough draws even out in UCL.

No they don't. Because if you face Barca for example when your team is in bad form and a key player or two are injured you will lose.

But if you have a better team, over a season you will win.
 

FredX

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Casualista

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No they don't. Because if you face Barca for example when your team is in bad form and a key player or two are injured you will lose.

But if you have a better team, over a season you will win.

and in leagues that are close, the same can happen to your title hopes if you lose important players at crucial junctures. Because each game matters when the difference is 3 or 4 points.
 

badboybjörn

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Yes the spread of luck is greater when there are more games.

But when the difference is 4 points (or even less) at the end of the league season it tells me that it was the incremental factors that mattered and individual decisions that mattered.

And again, as far as UCL goes it evens out. No team has won UCL on the back of easy draws (not saying its statistically impossible but it has never happened).


Perhaps we are just using the word luck differently.

Football is the most unfair sport in the world. For instance. In basketball sweden would never beat usa. Not in one game ever nore in best out of 10. They dont have a chance.

In football sweden can win over spain even tho the difference in quality is more or less the same i would imagine. Over 10 games sweden would never win over spain.

Another example could be the strongest team in a league is winning 1-0 in all games during a season but in one they loose 0-2. This team will win the league every time. Most likely by a huge margin aswell. It will be the best team that wins the league.

In CL that team could be out in the first head to head game. And it has 0 chances of winning CL. 0%

Now you can argue that if you loose 0-2 it perhaps isent bad luck in this game and perhaps it isent depending on how it plays out but it would still be unlucky for the best team by far not to win the trophy, wouldent you say?
 

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and in leagues that are close, the same can happen to your title hopes if you lose important players at crucial junctures. Because each game matters when the difference is 3 or 4 points.

This isn´t going anywhere... let´s just agree that you don´t want to acknowledge the obvious difference and be done with this.
 

Casualista

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This isn´t going anywhere... let´s just agree that you don´t want to acknowledge the obvious difference and be done with this.

is this a psychological trick? throwing the word obvious in there?

its not obvious at all that UCL requires more luck to win than league.

UCL may require some luck in winning particular ties but through the length of UCL it evens out just as much as a close fought league. Because close fought leagues are won on the margins just like any team winning UCL.

@badboybjorn

I think its important to acknowledge the fact that the requirements for winning the league and winning UCL are different. And even what constitutes the best team in UCL and best team in league are different. This is why many teams that win UCL have not won the league same year. But this differentiating factors has more to do with team composition rather than luck. Invariably its the teams with greater squad depths that can prevail over the course of a league season. Squad depth isnt usually the important factor in UCL.

However, my argument is that both competitions have luck involved and if the league is close fought then luck plays a similar role in both.
 

leaf

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I think there's a tad more luck to the CL than the league...it isn't very much but it can make the difference between a title and nothing.

You have to consider that the CL is all about winning. It's not like the league where you can view making the CL spot as a "win of sorts" and there is the prospect of relegation that may make teams alter their play and behaviour(s).

The CL can be more about luck because teams are more inclined to gamble tactically and this can lead to unpredictable results in either direction.

In the league, there is basically more structured approach and this is also why I think Zlatan will always do better in the league. He can overpower/outwit 99% of defenders and he will generally have success 100% of the time against the more modest teams in the league. Because the teams he plays with are generally among the best in Europe, chances are that the defense will take care of the rest and thus it could be seen as "Zlatan won league game X" for his team

In the CL, things are more unpredictable and games change in nature from opponent to opponent and from game to game against the same opponent. there is no standard strategy and players have to be willing to be more flexble positionally to accommodate the situation. In this regard I think Ibra isn't world class. I have seen players like Zidane, Kaka, CR7, Messi, Eto'o and Drogba do the needful in this respect.

I don't think "being true to himself" is as important to a footballer if it comes at the expense of glory in his career. Sacrificing the things he likes to do for approximately ten games shouldn't be that hard if it means winning the highest club trophy

Again, in the league iBra doesn't need to do this. He can be himself and will win the majority of games. That majority will be enough to win enough points for the league. It won't be enough for the CL.
 

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You need something special to win the Champions League.
 

MrKuuk

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Casualista

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do you guys tag eachother in dragonball memes on facebook??

87.jpg


i always get confused whether to tag sage as fake, pig, or ugly. :o
 

Sage

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cell or satan? that's awesome.


you're def. kuririn :lol: :proud:
 

Senatore_M84

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Perhaps we are just using the word luck differently.

Football is the most unfair sport in the world. For instance. In basketball sweden would never beat usa. Not in one game ever nore in best out of 10. They dont have a chance.

In football sweden can win over spain even tho the difference in quality is more or less the same i would imagine. Over 10 games sweden would never win over spain.

Another example could be the strongest team in a league is winning 1-0 in all games during a season but in one they loose 0-2. This team will win the league every time. Most likely by a huge margin aswell. It will be the best team that wins the league.

In CL that team could be out in the first head to head game. And it has 0 chances of winning CL. 0%

Now you can argue that if you loose 0-2 it perhaps isent bad luck in this game and perhaps it isent depending on how it plays out but it would still be unlucky for the best team by far not to win the trophy, wouldent you say?

the margin of swedens bball and usa bball is not comparable to sweden football and spain football

a better comparison would be Azerbaijan or san marino v. spain.


-


Thats just composite of a different sport which is just starting to spread globally with only 2-3 nations truly composing talent levels remotely similar. Where as football is truly a global game and in european sense, most countries have same amount of interest... therefor talent pool, population depending of course

Even those, when i look at spain i see 2 players who'd play for usa

argentina 1.
 

badboybjörn

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the margin of swedens bball and usa bball is not comparable to sweden football and spain football

a better comparison would be Azerbaijan or san marino v. spain.


-


Thats just composite of a different sport which is just starting to spread globally with only 2-3 nations truly composing talent levels remotely similar. Where as football is truly a global game and in european sense, most countries have same amount of interest... therefor talent pool, population depending of course

Even those, when i look at spain i see 2 players who'd play for usa

argentina 1.


I think you are missing the point even tho you are probably correct.
I dont follow basketball that much anymore.

The vastly superior team will win in basketball but in football even if the team we are comparing have the same vastly superior squad they can and do still loose to vastly inferior teams. The sport isent fair in the sense that you can be better for 99% of the game / time and still end up loosing.
 

Senatore_M84

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I think you are missing the point even tho you are probably correct.
I dont follow basketball that much anymore.

The vastly superior team will win in basketball but in football even if the team we are comparing have the same vastly superior squad they can and do still loose to vastly inferior teams. The sport isent fair in the sense that you can be better for 99% of the game / time and still end up loosing.

eh....

you see better teams lose all the time in NBA.

luck is involved in all sports.


the thing w/ ucl is, it's only 180 minutes... where as nba playoffs are best of 7. Really hard to win 4 straight
 

KujaIX

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the margin of swedens bball and usa bball is not comparable to sweden football and spain football

a better comparison would be Azerbaijan or san marino v. spain.


-


Thats just composite of a different sport which is just starting to spread globally with only 2-3 nations truly composing talent levels remotely similar. Where as football is truly a global game and in european sense, most countries have same amount of interest... therefor talent pool, population depending of course

Even those, when i look at spain i see 2 players who'd play for usa

argentina 1
.

Thought you meant football here for a second.

Almost had an aneurysm.
 

badboybjörn

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eh....

you see better teams lose all the time in NBA.

luck is involved in all sports.


the thing w/ ucl is, it's only 180 minutes... where as nba playoffs are best of 7. Really hard to win 4 straight


Im talking in general and ofc. Better team looses to worse teams in NBA, no shit..

But you wont c comparible teams in basketball of lets say spain and finland in football draw in worldcup qualifiers. Because in football all it takes is a moment to overcome 89 minutes beeing totally dominated on the pitch. That wont happen in basketball.

Jeez whats with ppl today.
 

Senatore_M84

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Im talking in general and ofc. Better team looses to worse teams in NBA, no shit..

But you wont c comparible teams in basketball of lets say spain and finland in football draw in worldcup qualifiers. Because in football all it takes is a moment to overcome 89 minutes beeing totally dominated on the pitch. That wont happen in basketball.

Jeez whats with ppl today.

and that happens in bball all the time

team is ahead all game andshits away at the end?
 

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