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Old 18-12-2011, 23:48   #61
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Zidane is up there with the greatest ever. Him and Ronaldo are the only ones from the modern era to reach that level.
Messi is approaching it.
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Old 18-12-2011, 23:49   #62
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Messi is approaching it.


Prove himself outside Barca then we will talk
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Old 18-12-2011, 23:57   #63
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Prove himself outside Barca then we will talk
Put anyone else in his position in the team, and they wouldn't perform at the same level.
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Old 19-12-2011, 00:04   #64
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Messi is approaching it.
I will choose to ignore this comment as I'm not interested in this discussion, because I don't think it's even worthy of consideration.
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Old 19-12-2011, 00:07   #65
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I will choose to ignore this comment as I'm not interested in this discussion, because I don't think it's even worthy of consideration.
Do you watch football?
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Old 19-12-2011, 00:11   #66
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Messi can win all the trophies in the world

but for me

Ronaldo and Zidane >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 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>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Messi

Maybe not that extent but you get the idea
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Old 19-12-2011, 00:27   #67
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Messi gets underrated because of the team he is in, but people don't understand how many games he has decided for barcelona and the amount of times he has destroyed madrid by himself, and the fact that he really is a complete football player, a true genius.

Barcelona are a fantastic team, but messi takes them to another level, and unlike cristiano he isn't a big game choker.

and whoever brings up that inter game needs to get slapped by seedorf's dick
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Old 19-12-2011, 00:33   #68
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Agree with Sage
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Old 19-12-2011, 01:07   #69
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When Messi leads Argentina to a WC title, then he can be up there.


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Old 19-12-2011, 01:14   #70
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Messi gets underrated because of the team he is in, but people don't understand how many games he has decided for barcelona and the amount of times he has destroyed madrid by himself, and the fact that he really is a complete football player, a true genius.

Barcelona are a fantastic team, but messi takes them to another level, and unlike cristiano he isn't a big game choker.

and whoever brings up that inter game needs to get slapped by seedorf's dick
Probably true, though "Ronaldo being a big game choker" is overrated too. He performed pretty consistently in big games for man utd.

However Australiano is totally right (I Think he said something to the effect). Messi with barca is 1 of best I've seen, on par with anything Zidane or Ronaldo did.

Messi with argentina is questionable to start over di maria or lavezzi. He's been nothing short of average. Performed agains a u22 CR side, random small teams and generally looks out of his element against any half-decent south american side.

So it's fair to say 'he's not their yet' (as in greatest of greats) till he proves something. Forget even winning a world cup, that's something 1 player cannot control....But i mean legitimately perform like cruyff or Van Basten (players who never won world cups), or baggio, batistuta etc.

Times on his side though... he's 24. Ridiculous really.


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 19-12-2011, 01:20   #71
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messi used growth hormone, won't be surprising if he declined before he reached 30
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Old 19-12-2011, 01:23   #72
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I agree that cristiano's big game choker tag is overrated, but it is true, he completely choked against bartha last week, while messi was fighting and playing like a true WC player.

Messi being average with argentina is def. overrated, I've seen a lot of argentina games, the guy rarely ever has a bad or even average game, he always plays well, but if he's not scoring then most people will think he is having a shit game/being average.

I'm not saying he never had an average/poor game for argentina, but he plays well 90% of the time, whether he scores or not is down to his luck, because I think it's fair to say he's been unlucky at times with them.


zidane had a great france team around him and same goes for ronaldo, the team messi has around him has too many weaknesses.
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Old 19-12-2011, 01:46   #73
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I agree that cristiano's big game choker tag is overrated, but it is true, he completely choked against bartha last week, while messi was fighting and playing like a true WC player.
No doubt, in my opinion, that was. his worst game ever. Honestly, it was like a 2/10 rating type performance.

I don't even know what was up. At times i felt like he had same facial expressions i say Luis Ronaldo make during 98 world cup final. It was beyond a choke, he looked like someone threatened to kill him if he scored.

Quote:
Messi being average with argentina is def. overrated, I've seen a lot of argentina games, the guy rarely ever has a bad or even average game, he always plays well, but if he's not scoring then most people will think he is having a shit game/being average.
Yeah, but performing in friendlies in india, africa or UAE isn't what im talking about. In the world cup he was average. Did not look like 'undisputed best player' tag he has. In Copa America 3 times it's been same story. He looks same level of Di Maria, Lavezzi etc. You know he does a couple nice things but by no means the level with Barca.

I'm not saying he's a clown, but the drop in level is astonishing. I mean him Barca v. RM (for ex.) last few games, you watch him and you go... this guy is on another level from every attacker on earth.

But with Argentina, he just looks like another talented player, not special. Big difference

Quote:

I'm not saying he never had an average/poor game for argentina, but he plays well 90% of the time, whether he scores or not is down to his luck, because I think it's fair to say he's been unlucky at times with them.


zidane had a great france team around him and same goes for ronaldo, the team messi has around him has too many weaknesses.
It certainly doesn't help that Messi's team is always in turmoil which is why I am not saying he needs to win titles w/ argentina.

Without a defense it's so unlikely they'll win a copa america, much less a WC.

But beyond that, it's not like he's scoring regularly OR assisting.

2011 CA- 4 games, 0 goals, 3 assistS (2 v. Costa rica's u22 side)
2010 WC- 5 games, 0 goals, 1 assist

In WC qualifying his record's been poor too.

It's fair to say he has been a major disappointment for argentina to date.


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 19-12-2011, 01:51   #74
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Why does every thread have to turn into whether Messi is among the gods of football?


Zizou 10... just!
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Old 19-12-2011, 01:56   #75
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And I think if he was to be considered one of the true greats he would have to move out of Barcelona

Zidane, Ronaldo, Van Basten, Maradona etc all proved themeselves with their respective national teams and other clubs
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Old 19-12-2011, 02:07   #76
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And I think if he was to be considered one of the true greats he would have to move out of Barcelona

Zidane, Ronaldo, Van Basten, Maradona etc all proved themeselves with their respective national teams and other clubs
Yes, he should come ot milan.

purely to prove he's actually as good as claimed.

I don't think he has a choice..... 2 mil + 50% co-ownership Pato. Take it or leave it Pep.


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 19-12-2011, 06:10   #77
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More than proving himself in other club (I don't mind that, I think he'll have time to prove himself in a Barcelona that will struggle-cycles they happen- before he's 30), a key is that the difference in his performance with the ones Argentina has don't suffer such a drop off. We're not talking about him being the only one that is carrying the team (and I'm sure if he was Argies wouldn't want him to stay at Catalunya and demand to play Tevez, we're talking about the best player on earth right now and a country that lives off of football and parading around their arrogance, if Messi would perform on regular basis-not 2-3 games a year on friendlies mostly-for Argentina they would show him off as their jewel).

Yes Argentina has defiencies, no that doesn't mean the best player in the world, the one that carries record breaking stats for his club, just performs good (just good btw, not even near the level you'd expect for a player like him) in 3 games for his NT per year (mostly against subpar teams), and then his a big 0 for the rest of the games. Maradona's Argentina wasn't good either (dare I say current Argentina has -on names- better players from midfield to top than Diego's, and it was a big hot mess too inside the dressing room), that didn't affect his performances.

But we'll see he has at least 2 more WCs 2 Copa Américas to pull significant performances (significant performances don't mean WC winner, but someone you're like damn it, he really put the team on his shoulders, and was magnificent, it just didn't happen)


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Old 19-12-2011, 06:17   #78
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Yes, he should come ot milan.

purely to prove he's actually as good as claimed.

I don't think he has a choice..... 2 mil + 50% co-ownership Pato. Take it or leave it Pep.
basically what I was trying to say
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Old 19-12-2011, 12:42   #79
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Zidane took a shit France to a World Cup final in 2006 all by himself. After he retired, they were knocked out of 2008 and 2010's group stages.

Before Zidane, France had never won a World Cup. With him, they won one, reached another final, and won the EURO.

Zidane injured in 2002 - France, the reigning World and Europe champions, out of the World Cup group stages.

Zizou is the definition of single handedly carrying a team on the biggest occasions for almost a decade. It's an insult to him to compare him with over hyped modern day footballers that haven't done shit on the international stage.
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Old 19-12-2011, 13:39   #80
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Zidane took a shit France to a World Cup final in 2006 all by himself. After he retired, they were knocked out of 2008 and 2010's group stages.

Before Zidane, France had never won a World Cup. With him, they won one, reached another final, and won the EURO.

Zidane injured in 2002 - France, the reigning World and Europe champions, out of the World Cup group stages.

Zizou is the definition of single handedly carrying a team on the biggest occasions for almost a decade. It's an insult to him to compare him with over hyped modern day footballers that haven't done shit on the international stage.
I understand what you're saying.

BUT, you shouldn't underestimate the France 98 NT and Zidane was out almost the entire tournament (red card against S. Arabia I think?). That NT was ridiculously talented. Skippers like Deschamps and Desailly, young hungry players like Thuram and Henry, Petit having a hell of a tournament, Lizarazu being one of the better left backs of his generation (bar Maldini and R. Carlos obviously), the creative genius of Djorkaeff in midfield, etc... Zidane decides the final on his own, yes, but the rest of the tournament it were the other guys. Credit where credit is due.

And the France 06 NT wasn't sh*t, come one Fiero. I remember that final distinctively, and just like Gattuso said in an interview a few months after that game, I was thinking the same: "Dayyum, those guys look huge and unbeatable, what the f*ck are we gonna do against THOSE guys?". Everytime Henry or Malouda got the ball, I was totally afraid of what was going to happen. Every. Single. Time. They looked so confident, dangerous and badass. Same goes for Zidane ofcourse, who looked untouchable, he was almost floating around the pitch, totally controlling the game. And then France also had Ribery, who wasn't the player he is now, but a diamond in the rough, everybody could see that. He was a constant attacking threat. They had the experience in the centre of the pitch with Thuram, Makelele, Gallas and Viera, and Abidal was rock solid those years. Not a bad team at all, on the contrary. Zidane was the undisputed leader, but again, he had an awesome team to lead.

Singlehandedly carried his team in those two WC's you say? I have some doubts. France was a force back then.

One of the greatest and unique players ever? Yes, defintely.


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