The Rumour Commode XXIX: The real Maldoban era.

IL Diavolo 3 · Jul 5, 2020

Not bad.

Chiko · Jul 5, 2020

Remember before the lockdown Milan fans were depressed and crying, because we had awful results. Now look Pioli is God again. Such short term memories :lol:

fray · Jul 5, 2020

Kaka92 said:
Btw, I saw that Jović is already playing, I thought he'll be injured till August. Well good to know that he's already healthy...

I think he'll be our marquee signing this summer.

Tobinho · Jul 5, 2020

dcfcfan1 said:
osasuna 0-0 getafe

ffs villareal equalised past barca

but looking good for sevilla- nice to get a 20 mill in the bank for suso

Villarreal have been destroyed. Sevilla will go 6 points clear in 4th if they beat Eibar at home, with 4 games to go.

Goodfella · Jul 5, 2020

MilanBG said:
I think it is Ralf pulling the strings of this Milan from distance.

Hmm, ok.

MilanBG said:
In January and February we played ugly, slow and ineffective football. Then we had an unprecendented break for 3 months during which the players couldn't even train.

umm, no.
In January and February Milan were playing a very intense and paceful 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1 which won us 5 games in a row.
If you're going to propose a theory that completely discredits the coach then at least get the basics right.

brk said:
This is very clear. I mentioned this as a possibility when we abruptly switched to a 442 high pressing system sometime around the new year. It was done to prepare the squad for Ralf.

Very clear?
Pioli has been using this system in his previous clubs.
He even mentioned the possibility of switching to 4-4-2 back in his first month, but then he implied that the team isn't ready for it yet.
The formation change just happened to coincide with the arrival of a new CF(Ibra), and the return of two wingers that had fitness issues in late 2019(Samu & Rebic).

Goodfella · Jul 5, 2020

Ronin said:
Klopp's Liverpool lost 3-0 to City. Fire that noob

Klopp's Liverpool has lost 3-0 to Watford, twice.
Watford are nowhere near as potent as Atalanta.

Shit happens. Besides, we're talking about a game where Pioli was forced to field Calabria as LB and Conti as RB due to Theo's suspension and RicRod's injury.
Rebic and Samu were also having fitness issues.
A non-performing Piatek was benched for Leao, whose tendency to drift wide pushed Hakan into the centre, leaving no on the flanks to support the FBs.
Bennacer was also having a nightmare performance, as anchor.

Qaas · Jul 6, 2020

Kasoka said:
Only reason why Pioli's work is so highly rated is because his work is rated on a curve. Milan has been absolute shit under Giampaolo despite having the 3rd most expensive squad in Italy, so any small improvement is seen as a revelation. Much of Pioli's accoplishment is more a product of Giampaolo's incompetence than Pioli's brilliance. For gods sake we aren't even in the top4 if you just look at the games Pioli coached.

Keeping him would be a terrible decision, one based on emotion rather than clear headed analysis. For the same reason you shouldn't overpay for a player that had a good WC based on said WC, you shouldn't overappreciate a coach based on a couple of solid months.

You judge coaches on the total body of their work, not just "momentum" and emotions after a good game. Pioli had three big jobs before Milan: Lazio, Inter and Fiorentina. At Lazio and Fiorentina his teams got worse, not better, in the second season and he got fired. At Inter he did fairly well as caretaker and some Inter noobs wanted to keep him (the irony) and in hindsight not signing him and being smart and going with Spalletti turned out to be key to get back in the CL. We should do the same.

btw, the whole point of Rangnick is to combine quality coaching with quality transfer signings that are affordable for a club with no CL access. That combo makes him the perfect choice in our dire situation. Comparing a fairly successful caretaker with a mediocre record like Pioli with a german football legend like Rangnick is insulting and irrational.

Nothing is certain life, so maybe Rangnick will fail, but getting his services is a huge opportunity that can't be missed.

Edu-bY-A said:
1. Where have you been the last two decades? He is proven! In addition to that a lot of Klopps approach in tactics are based on Rangnick who implemented and developed Sacchis approach in Germany. However Klopp is better when it comes to motivating players cause his ability being buddy and teacher. Rangnick is more a teacher type.

Further more our Style of Play since January already has elements of Rangnick. To be honest imo the transition has already begun. Maybe there already has been contact between Rangnick and Pioli.

No matter what - becoming a top flight again will take a while. Even Rangnick will need 3 to 5 years. Look at Liverpool who long Klopp adjusted and redeveloped things. But Liverpool never been that far away and they have a lot more money.

Edu-bY-A said:
Rangnick?s Influence on german Football can be compared to Sacchi?s Influence back than.

He brought some mediocre teams like Ulm to the Bundesliga, simply buy being tactically far far ahead.

Further more he had a good run at Schalke, which is a pretty difficult environment and what he established at Hoffenheim and Leipzig is superb.

From day one he?d be the best coach in Italy. However he is a special personality who likes to have full power. His credo is Thou shalt have no other gods before me.

Forza AC Milan · Jul 6, 2020

tonyb said:
What do people think of Giroud as a back up next season?
Chelsea have Werner and Abraham, so he'll surely be on his way out.

Granted he did sign a year extension with them until 2021, but he'd be a cheap player who I feel is massively underrated. Great team player.

If Ibra leaves, we sign a top CF, keep Rebic and loan/sell Leao, then I see him fitting perfectly.

I think he would do well in Serie A. A strong center forward generally is good for Serie A. For reasonable wages and as a back up option he would be decent.

He doesn?t score freely though so you also have to flank him with fast scorers to maximize him lint the way Mbappe and Griezmann did in French National team

Goodfella · Jul 6, 2020

Kasoka said:
Pioli had three big jobs before Milan: Lazio, Inter and Fiorentina. At Lazio and Fiorentina his teams got worse, not better, in the second season and he got fired. At Inter he did fairly well as caretaker and some Inter noobs wanted to keep him (the irony) and in hindsight not signing him and being smart and going with Spalletti turned out to be key to get back in the CL. We should do the same.

At Lazio, he arrived for the final year(s) of the Klose-Mauri generation.
He squeezed out the little that was left in them and handed the club their only Top 3 finish between 2007 and 2019.
For his second season, Lotito decided to rely on that same core again. Ok, tbf he reinforced the team with Matri on loan from Milan, Ravel Morrison from the UK juvenile system and also SMS who was 20 at the time. Who would've guessed that they weren't going to manage to repeat the feat.....
However the 8th position he left them in was by no means a disaster. A midtable finish is nothing out of the ordinary for Lazio. Simone finished 8th with a stronger squad last season.

As for his Inter stint, he didn't even get to start or finish a season with them.
They hired him to fix De Boer's and especially their own mess, after Mancini's resignation in August and the upper management issues with Kia Joorabchian.
He started off with 12 wins in his first 16 games, including a 7-1 win against Gasperini's Atalanta. Then Inter had their usual late season implosion, which not even Spalletti or Conte have been able to prevent with far superior squads. They fired him with a few games remaining of that season.
It was never a choice between Pioli and Spalletti for Inter fans, where do you get that from? Spalletti replaced Vecchi not Pioli. But this isn't surprising. The Piolofodder-crowd don't even have the slightest context of his previous jobs and just make assumptions based on how long he lasted.

He was the Fiorentina coach when their captain Astori passed away.
The team grew rather than plummeted after his death.
Pioli went from a notable ex-player to one of the most beloved Fiorentina legends for the way he handled that tragedy. They were 10th in the table when he was fired by Della Valle, despite protests by players and fans. Then the relegation form started and Montella almost relegated them after going winless in all of the remaining games of that season.
Multiple big signings and managerial changes later they are still in a worse position than the 10th place he left them in.

Ronin · Jul 6, 2020

Goodfella said:
At Lazio, he arrived for the final year(s) of the Klose-Mauri generation.
He squeezed out the little that was left in them and handed the club their only Top 3 finish between 2007 and 2019.
For his second season, Lotito decided to rely on that same core again. Ok, tbf he reinforced the team with Matri on loan from Milan, Ravel Morrison from the UK juvenile system and also SMS who was 20 at the time. Who would've guessed that they weren't going to manage to repeat the feat.....
However the 8th position he left them in was by no means a disaster. A midtable finish is nothing out of the ordinary for Lazio. Simone finished 8th with a stronger squad last season.

As for his Inter stint, he didn't even get to start or finish a season with them.
They hired him to fix De Boer's and especially their own mess, after Mancini's resignation in August and the upper management issues with Kia Joorabchian.
He started off with 12 wins in his first 16 games, including a 7-1 win against Gasperini's Atalanta. Then Inter had their usual late season implosion, which not even Spalletti or Conte have been able to prevent with far superior squads. They fired him with a few games remaining of that season.
It was never a choice between Pioli and Spalletti for Inter fans, where do you get that from? Spalletti replaced Vecchi not Pioli. But this isn't surprising. The Piolofodder-crowd don't even have the slightest context of his previous jobs and just make assumptions based on how long he lasted.

He was the Fiorentina coach when their captain Astori passed away.
The team grew rather than plummeted after his death.
Pioli went from a notable ex-player to one of the most beloved Fiorentina legends for the way he handled that tragedy. They were 10th in the table when he was fired by Della Valle, despite protests by players and fans. Then the relegation form started and Montella almost relegated them after going winless in all of the remaining games of that season.
Multiple big signings and managerial changes later they are still in a worse position than the 10th place he left them in.

PatoRTW · Jul 6, 2020

Ibrahimovic is the main reason for the season getting better not Pioli. Look at the results before his transfer. Before ibra arrived piolo was on the bench for 10 games and only won 3 just like giampaolo before him. since ibra the team has only failed to score in his first game against sampdoria. Go back and watch the highlights of the previous games, even if he doesn't score he's there for the build up and always causing trouble for the other teams.

He's also always praised for his winning mentality and for being the leader the teams clearly didn't have before. In my eyes he is the only player in the squad that is untouchable. milan must do everything in their power to keep him for as long as possible.

brk · Jul 6, 2020

Goodfella said:
Very clear?
Pioli has been using this system in his previous clubs.
He even mentioned the possibility of switching to 4-4-2 back in his first month, but then he implied that the team isn't ready for it yet.
The formation change just happened to coincide with the arrival of a new CF(Ibra), and the return of two wingers that had fitness issues in late 2019(Samu & Rebic).

Pioli, if anything, is known for being extremely flexible when it comes to playstyle. Fits the team to the players. What I meant was that it was very peculiar that when the rumors about Ralf became very intense, and Boban said his statement about him, we suddenly shifted from the old 433 that every coach was stuck with trying to fit Suso.

You say 'return' of Samu and Rebic as if they were starters back then. Rebic barely played and Samu was strictly seen as a Suso understudy. We had no plan B besides Suso and even when Ibra came we played 433 with Suso. The shift happened away to Cagliari 11th of January, that's when we finally dropped Suso. Boban said we signed with Ralf end of December. Seems more than likely that Pioli would be influenced to prepare the team to play a direct counterpressing style versus the possession based 433 we've been playing for years.

Edit: I really like Pioli, think he's a great coach and the fact that he is so flexible makes me think he could do a good job under Ralf if he only takes up the director position. I wouldn't prefer that, but I think it can work.

MilanBG · Jul 6, 2020

Goodfella said:
umm, no.
In January and February Milan were playing a very intense and paceful 4-4-2 and 4-2-3-1 which won us 5 games in a row.
If you're going to propose a theory that completely discredits the coach then at least get the basics right.

What? 5 wins is a row including 2 in Coppa. Ok, let's discuss them. 2 of them being against relegation sides, one of them won with a winner in the 93rd minute and another one won with an equalizer in the 91st minute (Toro). Wow, that's impressive. We played like shit, just like usual. What was different is that Ibra brought some enthusiasm and class to this soulless group of player. It has little to do with Pioli.

Why didn't you mention what happened before and after this amazing streak? Before it - 2 points in 3 games including the biggest embarrassment we ever got by Atalanta. After it - one win in 7 games.

Here's why I think Rangnick is pulling the strings:
1. Pioli was hired as caretaker. His contract was until 30.06.2020. What is this telling you? He had a clause that it will be automatically renewed if he gets UCL, but that was just out of courtesy. Everybody knew it was not happening.
2. Boban himself confirmed it that Rangnick is coming. With the corona and the late end of the season Ralf would have little to no time to prepare the team for his football.
3. We played our usual bad games with some flashes before the crisis and then after an unprecedented break of 3 months during which the players couldn't even train together you are telling me that Pioli miraculously upgraded them? The same Pioli that was mocked by Atalanta, lost every derby he coached and was beaten by Genoa at home, after 3 months of staying at home drew Juventus and won against both Rome teams just like that?
4. The high pressing. Our face is completely different with this pressing and Pioli did not use it before that. Guess why
5. Pioli was never an ego coach. He has no issue to help a team in need. He has done it before. I won't be surprised if he is working with Ralf.

These are my thoughts, if you disagree I have no bad feelings, but please don't come up with shit arguments like 5 win in a row against some terrible teams

Nevermore · Jul 6, 2020

Rangnick has nothing to do with how we play now.
He still works for Red Bull, no contract with Milan, why would he interfere with Pioli's work?

Ronin · Jul 6, 2020

The biggest shame is that after taking on this very delicate job and delivering above expectation, people still disrespect and don't appreciate what Pioli has done. I hope that the Italian fans at home don't feel the same.. that's really shitty.

Neo'82 · Jul 6, 2020

7th in the table is now considered 'above expectation' Milans expectations have never been so low.

20 points from this season's objective and Pioli is considered by some as a 'great' coach...

Portare la rivoluzione

Ronin · Jul 6, 2020

Neo'82 said:
7th in the table is now considered 'above expectation' Milans expectations have never been so low.

20 points from this season's objective and Pioli is considered by some as a 'great' coach...

Portare la rivoluzione

Is the 7th spot purely his? Did he give us that horrible start to the season?

I can understand not liking somebody, but consciously choosing to not see the real situation just baffles me :fp:

He inherited a team, that he didn't build. That team was pretty shit as starting point (squad) and in the worst form ever. All things considered, yes, he's overachieving. At least, so far.

Goodfella said:
No, this team beat Lecce 4-1.
Also 2-0 against Roma.
Scored the only open play goal in 180 mins against Juve - 92 mins of it with 10 men.
And now 3-0 against Lazio.

The team is 5th if we only count the games in which Pioli was in charge. However Pioli inherited Giampaolo's train-wreck just in time for the hardest fixtures, having Roma, Juve, Napoli and Lazio among his first 6 opponents.
The team is 4th if we only count the 2020 results.
The team also managed to reach Coppa semis and got eliminated only due to the away goals rule against Juve.

You're thinking of the SPAL game. I'd say that game said more about terrible circumstances than coaching errors.

MilanBG · Jul 6, 2020

Neo'82 said:
7th in the table is now considered 'above expectation' Milans expectations have never been so low.

20 points from this season's objective and Pioli is considered by some as a 'great' coach...

Portare la rivoluzione

Imagine if we lost against Spal (very close), Dzeko scored the one against us (the header in the first half) or Lazio actually had Ciro. We would've been -3/4 points down :lol:

The tone here would've been very different. Just because we won a few games, it turns out we have a great coach :fp:

Only thing I like about Pioli is that we started pressing very high, which will make the transition to Ralf slightly easier.

Chiko · Jul 6, 2020

Ronin said:
The biggest shame is that after taking on this very delicate job and delivering above expectation, people still disrespect and don't appreciate what Pioli has done. I hope that the Italian fans at home don't feel the same.. that's really shitty.

I don?t see anyone disrespecting Pioli. Pioli did well, but let’s not go overboard with comparisons. You can want Pioli but comparing CVs is a different story. I only see you disrespecting Ragnick and his achievements.

Neo'82 · Jul 6, 2020

Ronin said:
Is the 7th spot purely his? Did he give us that horrible start to the season?

I can understand not liking somebody, but consciously choosing to not see the real situation just baffles me

http://forum.acmilan-online.com/showpost.php?p=3139600&postcount=12821

I have no dislike for Pioli and his work and neither should any Milan fan. He is doing what was expected of him by the management. His history shows that.

This team was never getting top 4 this season. That's the bottom line.

A few negative results and the mood towards Pioli contrasts 180. This season was a write-off before the pandemic.

Do you really want to commit to Pioli for the longer term? because the break up is 99% guaranteed. I hope it's graceful.

MilanBG said:
Imagine if we lost against Spal (very close), Dzeko scored the one against us (the header in the first half) or Lazio actually had Ciro. We would've been -3/4 points down The tone here would've been very different. Just because we won a few games, it turns out we have a great coach Only thing I like about Pioli is that we started pressing very high, which will make the transition to Ralf slightly easier.

Fact. Some fans need to see beyond Ralf the 'coach' and focus on the bigger picture. A cultural change at Milanello that will modernize Milan and finally give the club a clear identity.

The transition should be smoother due to what we have seen since the restart. Positives to build upon.

MilanBG · Jul 6, 2020

Neo'82 said:
I have no dislike for Pioli and his work and neither should any Milan fan. He is doing what was expected of him by the management. His history shows that.

This team was never getting top 4 this season. That's the bottom line.

A few negative results and the mood towards Pioli contrasts 180. This season was a write-off before the pandemic.

Do you really want to commit to Pioli for the longer term? because the break up is 99% guaranteed. I hope it's graceful.

Fact. Some fans need to see beyond Ralf the 'coach' and focus on the bigger picture. A cultural change at Milanello that will modernize Milan and finally give the club a clear identity.

The transition should be smoother due to what we have seen since the restart. Positives to build upon.

Exactly. People think Ralf is just a coach and can't see what he actually brings. It looks like some people don't know what a revolution means.

Neo'82 · Jul 6, 2020

MilanBG said:
Exactly. People think Ralf is just a coach and can't see what he actually brings. It looks like some people don't know what a revolution means.

Ralf as coach, that should be strictly short-term. It's all about his proven record in the director role. That's why we must all embrace the revolution.

A modern philosophy goes hand in hand with the new soon to be San Siro development. That's the collective future for AC Milan.

IL Diavolo 3 · Jul 6, 2020

Rangrick is important to lay out the foundation and culture. His job is to get the club up and running. No more fill gaps and short term solutions. You either start up a real project or stay living in a state of an emergency for as long as you want.

VultureSheva · Jul 6, 2020

Kjaer will not be reedemed according to CorSera.

I?m fine with that, Fofana here we go.

Nevermore · Jul 6, 2020

Won't be first time CorSera is wrong :lol:

ibelongtomilan · Jul 6, 2020

Nah enough with mediocre italian coaches, decent or not.
Lets try a foreign coach, new style, new idea.

VultureSheva · Jul 6, 2020

IL Diavolo 3 said:
No more fill gaps and short term solutions. You either start up a real project or stay living in a state of an emergency for as long as you want.

Look commoders. Even Il Diavolo has understood things well now.

IL Diavolo 3 · Jul 6, 2020

When you order Fabrizio Romano from Aliexpress.

Rossonero1028 · Jul 6, 2020

VultureSheva said:
Kjaer will not be reedemed according to CorSera.

I?m fine with that, Fofana here we go.

What do you think how our CB will look? Romagnoli, Fofana, New, Duarte?

brk · Jul 6, 2020

I always believed in Kessie and seeing him play this way next to Bennacer is really encouraging. I don't think we need an upgrade in CM next season, just make sure we have players to rotate with them.

The real need for an upgrade is definitely at RB, CB, and probably RM. I would prefer to have a right footed RM in order to get early crosses in. We've seen how much more effective this is with Saelemaekers able to cross from deep. We've scored a couple of goals directly through this move; the own goal, the handball and the disallowed Ibra goal. With a left footed player we aren't as fast putting the ball in the box as they usually have to cut inside first and the ball will be inswinging which is not what you want when you want to go around the defense and not over them. With Rebic (or even Leao) on the other side we could have a great far post option to attack the ball.

CF is a big unknown. We obviously need a Poulsen type player, big fast and able to trap direct balls against physical opponents. Ibra is one of the best of all time at this, but he definitely can't do the pressing required of this role as well. I also don't think Jovic is the kind of player we will be targeting considering the price and wage. Someone like Gaich or Scamacca look good and work on paper but are a huge risk, then again that's why you're getting Ralf. Rebic should play next to that CF as the second pressing forward.

Hakan and hopefully Szoboszlai can rotate the all important LM role, cutting inside. RM should be a right footed player that can press all game. I actually really like what Saelemaekers did against Lazio, but we obviously need an upgrade.

We need a much, much better RB than Conti, Calabria. No idea about Kalulu but I doubt he's ready to start. I can't stand Calabria or Conti.

So my priorities are RB, CB, CF, RM.

The Rumour Commode XXIX: The real Maldoban era.

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