The Rumour Commode XXIX: The real Maldoban era.

DiMarzio: Ibrahimovic will earn a salary of €7M without any bonuses. He is expected tomorrow in Milano.

Raiola has this club by the balls man

Samaldinho said:

I agree that the Bonucci, Barzagli, Chiellini group of Juve are a huge step-down to previous CB generations of Italy, and that Acerbi and Caldara (who are both overrated on this forum) are a step down.

Romagnoli is underrated on this forum (by half of the people), and I think Bastoni is one of the most talented young defenders in the world, he's really impressive.

But Romagnoli and Bastoni illustrate a larger problem in world football, where the quality of CBs, around the world, has become much, much worse. I mean, Koulibaly and Van Dijk are world-class CBs, but I don't think they are close to Nesta or Maldini levels, and just maybe at the level of a Stam (maybe).

The art of defending has disappeared, full-backs now are really valued for their ability to attack, while their defensive contributions are really secondary towards how people evaluate them. So, I agree with you, but to me, Italy is still producing the highest level of CB talent--it's just that the bar for what is "top class" talent for a CB in world football has really gone down dramatically, and in a very short period of time.

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I?ve had this argument with my friends, who are all EPL tossers. If you watched Italy and Milan growing up, then it?s extraordinarily difficult to not hold defenders to a higher standard... With Milan in particular, there was an added aesthetic to the way Nesta and Maldini played that I don?t think you can witness with any defender currently playing in Europe. Those guys seemed at times like they came down from a higher level.

I?d put Van Dijk where you said, a Stam level player that?s just below the status of legends like Nesta, Maldini, Baresi. A large part of my thinking is probably my bias toward Italian and Milan players and some level of nostalgia for my own youth influencing my thinking... Fine, sue me if I don?t consider Rio Ferdinand or Vidic to be elite all time defenders.

Ronin said:

Italy needs it's Oscar Tabarez

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That requires a good sense of scouting too.

Only person I've seen that can scout as good as they coach is Simeone.

With the new tax laws in Italy, this is still below 10mil gross. That's all we should care about as a club. It's still a good deal for us, seeing as how important he's become for this team

but how management convinced zlatan??
because thats all wasnt about money.

papaberlu said:

DiMarzio: Ibrahimovic will earn a salary of ?7M without any bonuses. He is expected tomorrow in Milano.

Raiola has this club by the balls man

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We had no choice. Does anyone think we would have enjoyed the type of form we did since January without Ibrahimovic occupying opposition players and leading our team of literal cuckolds?

How can we be SOOOO broke? How? Ffs

Srs, can someone who knows our economical atate in more details explain it to me. Would appreciate it very much...

Raz said:

Italy is a very conservative country. They don't like change.
When I went there for the first time I was shocked with how old the buildings and the infrastructure was.
And I'm not talking about any historic sites. Just regular residential areas.
Everything looked like it hasn't been repaired in decades

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I've never been in Italy, but my father told me one day, my son the passion of an Italian behind the Squadra Azzura team is beyond everything.

They have the best football team as soon as the competion (It was World Cup time) starts, even if u don't know one player. Then I asked to him, what about Toto Schillaci ? He said for them he is better than Romario.

Samaldinho said:

Italy needs to adopt Belgium's youth policy, it was how they were able to dramatically shift the production of high-quality players: instead of focusing on winning, they focused on developing the best players. This meant that the players who might be best suited to win them youth games and the setup to ensure they won was secondary to developing the best players.

Italy's exhaustive and overwhelming tactical schemes paired with its win-at-all-costs mentality stifles youth football. When you are producing Nesta, Maldini, Totti, and even Cassano and Balotelli level talent, that's fine, because their talent will emerge regardless.

However, when you have weaker generations, it breaks down and hurts young players.

The fact that Mancini's approach to the team has been like this "breath of fresh air" and that Italy hasn't taken the fact that they didn't qualify for the World Cup as a disaster and something that should make them re-assess how they bring up talent is scary to me.

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I have a good example. Cro U21 side and U19, 17 etc. Never had mayor success, but also never played strictly to win, for result. But to learn how to play and gain experience. Hence producing some amazing players.

VultureSheva said:

Looking at Milan Primavera, we produce some not technical CF (Petagna, Cutrone, Colombo) some defenders: Gabbia as CB, De Sciglio as a defensive fullback and hard worker defensive midfielders (Locatelli, Pogeba?)

But tell me when was the last time we produced a good winger or attacking midfielder? Or a very technical striker or fullback?

This problem is everywhere in Italy, they learn tactics but they don?t have this what I would call -Brazilian talent- in them.

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I can't remember the last time Milan really produced an exciting talent in the attack department, period. I mean, Aubameyang? Before that, when did we ever really produce attack talent from our primavera? I can't remember anyone, even during the 90's, to be fair.

Like, Boriello? We just haven't produced anyone in the attack, like, we've never had a Del Piero or Totti or Baggio or anyone like that emerge from Milan's primavera, at least I can't remember.

However, we have produced a lot of great midfielders and defenders. I mean, Maldini and Albertini and those types of players are incredible talents, but we still produce good players.

Calabria looks like he's going to go down the path of DES and Coco, but, I have a little bit of hope for him. Otherwise, I agree with you, but again, Italy's approach to young talents has not been great, particularly in the attacking and FB areas. In terms of CMs and CBs, Italy is still doing a good job. Gabbia is very promising in my eyes, I think we underrate him a bit here. He's got to get stronger, but I think his positioning is very impressive for someone his age.

I don't really see Brazil producing great talents anymore, to be fair. I mean, they have made some nice attacking players, but if you want to compare the current young talent of Brazil to Neymar, they don't measure up, and if you want to compare them to Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, then it's even worse.

Italy, however, of the major superpowers in World Football, I think are doing the worst in terms of producing attacking talent. The fact that Italy rely on Ciro Immobile or Belotti for goals shows how poor Italy has become, in general. I mean, who is Italy's hyped up attacker these days? Chiesa? Lol. He's a nice player, I'd like him at Milan, but Italy don't even have some overhyped attacking youngster. Zaniolo is more of a CAM in my eyes, but as far as like an attacker (wingers, strikers, etc), Italy has produced nothing.

jurinius said:

I've never been in Italy, but my father told me one day, my son the passion of an Italian behind the Squadra Azzura team is beyond everything.

They have the best football team as soon as the competion (It was World Cup time) starts, even if u don't know one player. Then I asked to him, what about Toto squillaci ? He said for them he is better than Romario.

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I can understand this its called meditteran passion...

Samaldinho said:

I can't remember the last time Milan really produced an exciting talent in the attack department, period. I mean, Aubameyang? Before that, when did we ever really produce attack talent from our primavera? I can't remember anyone, even during the 90's, to be fair.

Like, Boriello? We just haven't produced anyone in the attack, like, we've never had a Del Piero or Totti or Baggio or anyone like that emerge from Milan's primavera, at least I can't remember.

However, we have produced a lot of great midfielders and defenders. I mean, Maldini and Albertini and those types of players are incredible talents, but we still produce good players.

Calabria looks like he's going to go down the path of DES and Coco, but, I have a little bit of hope for him. Otherwise, I agree with you, but again, Italy's approach to young talents has not been great, particularly in the attacking and FB areas. In terms of CMs and CBs, Italy is still doing a good job. Gabbia is very promising in my eyes, I think we underrate him a bit here. He's got to get stronger, but I think his positioning is very impressive for someone his age.

I don't really see Brazil producing great talents anymore, to be fair. I mean, they have made some nice attacking players, but if you want to compare the current young talent of Brazil to Neymar, they don't measure up, and if you want to compare them to Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, then it's even worse.

Italy, however, of the major superpowers in World Football, I think are doing the worst in terms of producing attacking talent. The fact that Italy rely on Ciro Immobile or Belotti for goals shows how poor Italy has become, in general. I mean, who is Italy's hyped up attacker these days? Chiesa? Lol. He's a nice player, I'd like him at Milan, but Italy don't even have some overhyped attacking youngster. Zaniolo is more of a CAM in my eyes, but as far as like an attacker (wingers, strikers, etc), Italy has produced nothing.

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I mean players who are very skilled and technical, this is what I wanted to say with "Brazilian"... it could be "African" today looking at "Leao type" talented youngsters

But this is missing in Italy. In attack they rarely bring some good players, Zaniolo is a rare case.


Even Balotelli and El Shaarawy before 2013 were great for Italy, considering what they had in attack or what they have now.


I always trusted defensive Italian players though. They are more intelligent (not Calabria).

Milan10 said:

We had no choice. Does anyone think we would have enjoyed the type of form we did since January without Ibrahimovic occupying opposition players and leading our team of literal cuckolds?

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Na I agree, do whatever it takes. Only 1 year after all

Just makes me worried about the upcoming negotiations with Raiola

Looking at Juninho highlights... man, that guy's FKs were out of this world.

This takes me another thought - although the overall level of the players today has increased (more balanced I'd say), am I the only one who thinks that there are far less "special" players today? The type that have smth different than any other. There's no more Beckhams, Roberto Carlos, Juninhos, Maldinis

Samaldinho said:

I can't remember the last time Milan really produced an exciting talent in the attack department, period. I mean, Aubameyang? Before that, when did we ever really produce attack talent from our primavera? I can't remember anyone, even during the 90's, to be fair.

Like, Boriello? We just haven't produced anyone in the attack, like, we've never had a Del Piero or Totti or Baggio or anyone like that emerge from Milan's primavera, at least I can't remember.

However, we have produced a lot of great midfielders and defenders. I mean, Maldini and Albertini and those types of players are incredible talents, but we still produce good players.

Calabria looks like he's going to go down the path of DES and Coco, but, I have a little bit of hope for him. Otherwise, I agree with you, but again, Italy's approach to young talents has not been great, particularly in the attacking and FB areas. In terms of CMs and CBs, Italy is still doing a good job. Gabbia is very promising in my eyes, I think we underrate him a bit here. He's got to get stronger, but I think his positioning is very impressive for someone his age.

I don't really see Brazil producing great talents anymore, to be fair. I mean, they have made some nice attacking players, but if you want to compare the current young talent of Brazil to Neymar, they don't measure up, and if you want to compare them to Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, then it's even worse.

Italy, however, of the major superpowers in World Football, I think are doing the worst in terms of producing attacking talent. The fact that Italy rely on Ciro Immobile or Belotti for goals shows how poor Italy has become, in general. I mean, who is Italy's hyped up attacker these days? Chiesa? Lol. He's a nice player, I'd like him at Milan, but Italy don't even have some overhyped attacking youngster. Zaniolo is more of a CAM in my eyes, but as far as like an attacker (wingers, strikers, etc), Italy has produced nothing.

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I think Milan primavera has done a good, very good job. In fact I think that we could have earned much more money if the sales were right, or at right time.

Club lost Loca waaay too soon. It was obvious he has it to play in good level. Des situation made us sell him, but we coukd have earned a lot more in my books. Cutro ok, great business. Etc, etc.

I dont have a feeling Calabria can become a great fb. If he can be sold for 15 thats great! Or loaned, then they will see. He had flashes and I had hope, but Milan cant wait no more now.

They also fired a scout (Fassone fired him I think), guy who scouted Loca, Cristante, Donna, Cutro etc... Dont know why...money games.

Azzuri lack real class players and they are too conservative at their approach.

mrki said:

How can we be SOOOO broke? How? Ffs

Srs, can someone who knows our economical atate in more details explain it to me. Would appreciate it very much...

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It doesn't take complex economic or finance understanding to figure it out. We are a company that barely breaks 200mil in revenue. Our expenses for the last fiscal year were 300mil. So we ran a 100mil loss.

It's almost impossible to invest without outside (ownership) help, which is limited by FFP (allbeit indirectly) or taking on debt (which Elliot doesn't want to do).

Raz said:

Italy is a very conservative country. They don't like change.
When I went there for the first time I was shocked with how old the buildings and the infrastructure was.
And I'm not talking about any historic sites. Just regular residential areas.
Everything looked like it hasn't been repaired in decades

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I mean, it depends on where you go. You go to the South, sure.

Go to Milan and other parts of the North? It reminds me of Switzerland, to be honest.

The fact that Italy is still producing some of the best managers in the world, underlines that they do understand the game. I don't think we can pretend that isn't still true. The issue is that there haven't been talents to come through.

A big part of that is that Italy hasn't embraced immigrants like other European countries, if we want to be really honest. Germany, Holland, France, and other leading European powers are embracing their immigrants into their youth setup, while Spain and Italy are not. I think that it shows in the talent pool, if we're being quite frank.

I also agree with Mrki though. The Croatian talent pool, especially when you consider the size of the country, is incredible. That is infrastructural success, no doubt.

Italy's talent is still producing, just in particular areas. They aren't making strikers or wingers like they should. Insigne is the only player in Italy's attack that could be considered an elite level player, and even then, he's really borderline. Immobile just doesn't produce for Italy, and neither does Belotti.

Verratti, Locatelli, Tonali, you can see that Italy is still producing CMs that are top-quality. The fact that Bastoni doesn't get the hype from Inter fans, or from the closeted Inter fans on here boggles my mind. He's better than Skirinar (who sucks, and I've always said he sucks) and Godin. De Vrij is the only defender at Inter who is better, and that's just because he's way older.

When it comes to keepers, Italy has probably the best keeper situation in the world. I mean, who has a better stable of keepers? Slovenia when Handa and Oblak were both playing, but, otherwise, Italy's keepers are still of very high quality.

So, it's not like Italy is crumbling. The problem is they are not producing in the attack, because there is a young spine to Italy, the problem is that spine does not have a striker or winger that you can build around, and attackers are so important towards the way the rest of your team can function.

Anyway, this is too long, but yeah.

Maldini is in the right here. EL qualifications are coming up soon. Better to give Ibra what he wants instead of wasting the entire mercato on a striker that wont come and end up singing some last resort fodder.

Ronin said:

Looking at Juninho highlights... man, that guy's FKs were out of this world.

This takes me another thought - although the overall level of the players today has increased (more balanced I'd say), am I the only one who thinks that there are far less "special" players today? The type that have smth different than any other. There's no more Beckhams, Roberto Carlos, Juninhos, Maldinis

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One major reason is that more and more focus is on a general good training in academies, not in having a few stars. Never has the level of average players been so high, but at the same time this kills off the X factor a little bit imo and also forces some stand out players to adjust more than in the old days.

Also tactical developments are killing off individualism a lot and athletic and pace being more and more important.

In some areas it also has to do with modern footballs being made to be hard to judge and catch, you won't see many Alan Shearer style straight line shots nowadays for example. Or crosses have to be really sharp, more shot than high pass in nature.

I think the overall quality of football is probably better on paper, but I miss the older times, especially the translation period of the 00s where you had some of both worlds.

Lol we really have no money huh, city disregarding ffp and offering 100m plus 100m salary and multiple playera while we are dry loaning brahim diaz and praying for a tonali loan when hes right there for the taking

Ronin said:

Looking at Juninho highlights... man, that guy's FKs were out of this world.

This takes me another thought - although the overall level of the players today has increased (more balanced I'd say), am I the only one who thinks that there are far less "special" players today? The type that have smth different than any other. There's no more Beckhams, Roberto Carlos, Juninhos, Maldinis

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maybe its today 433/4231 and 442 variations problem
its just play wide, win oneonone and cross/shot ...

I the last thing Maldini wants is a TV feud with Raiola.

mrki said:

I think Milan primavera has done a good, very good job. In fact I think that we could have earned much more money if the sales were right, or at right time.

Club lost Loca waaay too soon. It was obvious he has it to play in good level. Des situation made us sell him, but we coukd have earned a lot more in my books. Cutro ok, great business. Etc, etc.

I dont have a feeling Calabria can become a great fb. If he can be sold for 15 thats great! Or loaned, then they will see. He had flashes and I had hope, but Milan cant wait no more now.

They also fired a scout (Fassone fired him I think), guy who scouted Loca, Cristante, Donna, Cutro etc... Dont know why...money games.

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Galliani's young Italian Milan proved to be good for Primavera.

Donnarumma, Locatelli, Cutrone, Pobega, Bellanova, Gabbia. This was the best Primavera team this century. Some of them are very good now (Donnarumma, Locatelli) others as good back-up material (Cutrone, Gabbia, Pobega?). Bellanova was a flop in Ligue 1 but has now joined Atalanta, he can still improve with Gasperini.

After the club was sold to the Chinese owners, I think they fired the scout, Bianchessi. He was doing a great job there.

Fuck it. Ibra deserves 7m a year, GTFO. I don't mind someone asking for what they're worth and not budging. That's how everyone should be if you want to make a nice life for you and your family.

VultureSheva said:

I mean players who are very skilled and technical, this is what I wanted to say with "Brazilian"... it could be "African" today looking at "Leao type" talented youngsters

But this is missing in Italy. In attack they rarely bring some good players, Zaniolo is a rare case.


Even Balotelli and El Shaarawy before 2013 were great for Italy, considering what they had in attack or what they have now.


I always trusted defensive Italian players though. They are more intelligent.

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Yeah, I totally get you. I mean, I can't see Italy producing someone like Salah, Mane, Sane, or Mbappe.

From what I've seen of Scamacca, he looks like the most promising young striker, but that was in Serie B, but he's not at the level of any of the players I mentioned above.

I don't see any electric players coming from Italy, no one has that flash of excitement, so I really agree with you--and I think the last great talent for Italy was Balotelli and SES. And both were handled really poorly. I think we should have had more patience with SES, and I think a lot of coaches took advantage of his hard-working nature which meant that he stopped trying to do daring things. He was so fixated on getting goals, and that ruined him.

Zaniolo is the rare case of Italy having some attacking talent, otherwise, you're right, Italy is just not producing anyone of the talent that it did 15-20 years ago.

mrki said:

I think Milan primavera has done a good, very good job. In fact I think that we could have earned much more money if the sales were right, or at right time.

Club lost Loca waaay too soon. It was obvious he has it to play in good level. Des situation made us sell him, but we coukd have earned a lot more in my books. Cutro ok, great business. Etc, etc.

I dont have a feeling Calabria can become a great fb. If he can be sold for 15 thats great! Or loaned, then they will see. He had flashes and I had hope, but Milan cant wait no more now.

They also fired a scout (Fassone fired him I think), guy who scouted Loca, Cristante, Donna, Cutro etc... Dont know why...money games.

Azzuri lack real class players and they are too conservative at their approach.

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I agree with you. I think the primavera has produced a lot of talent. I mean, if the comparison is Maldini, then no, but I think the primavera has produced a lot of useful players that we should have relied on more than what we have.

Locatelli should have been given Biglia's spot. DES got sold, but if Milan was functioning properly, he could have just been a Bonera-level player, who is useful and helps the squad.

I also think that the constant changes and problems at Milan has meant that our young players can't develop, and they have to leave in order to have a chance to do that.

Italy has major problems in producing attacking talents, there's no doubt about that.

@Samaldinho my friend...

Success of Croatia's development of the players in such small pool as u say, is not thanx to infrastructural base etc... but Im not sure God can answer how we did what we are doing ))

You think in a right and logical way but infrastructure, cro league, stadiums, camps etc in Croatia are....absimal, absurdly bad...we are faaaaar bahind modern western organisations.

But, we are super-extremely talented, it seems. Thats all, Croatians can play, thats all hahaha.

Azzuri just lack 3, 4 top forwards to accur. Del Piero, Vieri, Pippo level... Then they will be fine

Samaldinho said:

Italy, however, of the major superpowers in World Football, I think are doing the worst in terms of producing attacking talent. The fact that Italy rely on Ciro Immobile or Belotti for goals shows how poor Italy has become, in general. I mean, who is Italy's hyped up attacker these days? Chiesa? Lol. He's a nice player, I'd like him at Milan, but Italy don't even have some overhyped attacking youngster. Zaniolo is more of a CAM in my eyes, but as far as like an attacker (wingers, strikers, etc), Italy has produced nothing.

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To be fair Italy has always been known more for its defense and midfield than its attackers. Can only think of Vieri, Rossi, Baggio, and Totti as the stand out talents for attackers.

But that's down to a cultural thing. The same can be said for Argentina who can produce massive amounts of attackers and very few stand out defenders and midfielders.

In short, every country specializes in producing specific types of talents.

Milan10 said:

I?ve had this argument with my friends, who are all EPL tossers. If you watched Italy and Milan growing up, then it?s extraordinarily difficult to not hold defenders to a higher standard... With Milan in particular, there was an added aesthetic to the way Nesta and Maldini played that I don?t think you can witness with any defender currently playing in Europe. Those guys seemed at times like they came down from a higher level.

I?d put Van Dijk where you said, a Stam level player that?s just below the status of legends like Nesta, Maldini, Baresi. A large part of my thinking is probably my bias toward Italian and Milan players and some level of nostalgia for my own youth influencing my thinking... Fine, sue me if I don?t consider Rio Ferdinand or Vidic to be elite all time defenders.

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EPL fans are actual morons. My close friend is an Arsenal fan, and he is a better person than I am in every way (morals, ethics, friendship, etc) but when we talk about football, it's just... His incredible intelligence evaporates.

Nesta and Maldini played with art to their defending. You're talking about making defending into an art, with literally picture-perfect tackles, inch-perfect slides, they just... Those defenders don't exist anymore. I think Milan fans, when it comes to defenders, have a much higher bar for what constitutes the best in defense. What defender in the EPL comes to the level of Nesta, let alone Baresi or Maldini?

Van Dijk would be a Stam-level defender in the 2000's and late 90's. He's a great player, but he's levels below Maldini, Nesta, or even Cannavaro.

Just searched about Bianchessi, I see that he is Lazio's scout now.

Fucking Mirabelli fired him.