Ronaldo OR Van Basten

drucurl · Feb 21, 2008

You're welcome.... If you think that I feel inferior because of this you're wrong. I was born in 1982 so much of the 80's football and beyong I don't have much of a clue about first hand....that's why they invented the VCR etc. I'm pretty sure you could hold your own against a George Best or Garrincha or Zico fan.....Hell you might even be able to argue with a Di Stefano or Puskas fan..so don't look down on me because I didn't watch it live

Sasha · Feb 21, 2008

Capello probably said that out of pity for Ronaldo.

~there you go Sasha, adding fuel to the fire *chuckle, chuckle*

zZ[-_-]Zz · Feb 21, 2008

Forza Milan...

Centre · Feb 21, 2008

zZ[-_-]Zz said:
facts is not video footages & reports... but seein' things as they happen...

I think you are confused on what "facts" means??

drucurl · Feb 21, 2008

man above me:

Screw him.... it's 15-13 now

Quinni 17 · Feb 22, 2008

It doesnt matter which one is better they are both legends and NOTHING can ever take that from them, Im just so happy that they will both be remembered in Milan history its a privelage to have had such wonderful players, it really makes it easy to bea Milan fan.

Capello is a great coach I respect his views on Ronie.

gaizka22 · Feb 22, 2008

Quinni 17 said:
Im just so happy that they will both be remembered in Milan history.....

Great as they both are, they will be remembered differently in Milan history. MvBasten will be remembered as a true legend (in 1999 during Milan 100 year anniversary, he was voted as the 4th best player ever in Milan history) while Ronaldo will be remembered as just another Milan player. OK probably more than just another player - given his stature - but definitely way below MvB.

menon_inc · Feb 22, 2008

gaizka22 said:
Great as they both are, they will be remembered differently in Milan history. MvBasten will be remembered as a true legend (in 1999 during Milan 100 year anniversary, he was voted as the 4th best player ever in Milan history) while Ronaldo will be remembered as just another Milan player. OK probably more than just another player - given his stature - but definitely way below MvB.

Well he has not officially retired yet so you never know. He might still come back, score in the cl final and will be a legend like inzaghi

acerвιc wιт · Feb 22, 2008

Ronaldo is the closet player to reach Maradona's level, IMHO. Both players are legends of the game and if it weren't for their serious injuries, who knows how greater they could've become.

Beemer · Feb 22, 2008

menon_inc said:
Well he has not officially retired yet so you never know. He might still come back, score in the cl final and will be a legend like inzaghi

Well, Pippo's been able to overcome injury and extend his career even though he's made out of soda crackers, so there's hope of Ronnie being able to do likewise.

albion tifo · Feb 22, 2008

And my vote goes to Marco Van Basten. It is difficult to compare this two guys cause both are one of the best strikers ever but I like Basten more.

A Wild Homosexual · Feb 22, 2008

zZ[-_-]Zz said:
factual events? how many that voted here have seen van Basten when he first joined Milan? have you?

what makes you think that report about Capello's comments were not made up by the media? didn't those reports also say that Buffon will join Milan? how many of those media information are actually true?

i have seen van Basten ever since he joined Milan and i have watched fat boy since his PSV days... i believe that is better than basin' it on videos and whatnot... and that is a fact...

I watched em both & I don’t blame ppl who consider Ronaldo better than MVB specially when Ronaldo’s fact is much better.
I also don’t blame ppl who say that MVB is better.
There is an argument there so don’t try 2 make it clear that MVB is better.

zZ[-_-]Zz said:
facts is not video footages & reports...

Facts r exactly that.

Quinni 17 said:
It doesnt matter which one is better they are both legends and NOTHING can ever take that from them, Im just so happy that they will both be remembered in Milan history its a privelage to have had such wonderful players, it really makes it easy to bea Milan fan. Capello is a great coach I respect his views on Ronie.

Ppl shouldn’t consider Ronaldo as a big part in Milan history.
Same as Baggio , Rivaldo , Redondo , he was a great player prior 2 join Milan & with Milan he contributed much less.
On the other hand MVB is a Milan legend.
Lets not mix comparing the 2 as players with their Milan status.

A Wild Homosexual · Feb 22, 2008

There was once a thread comparing all the legends.
After many days of arguments it was clear that , statistics wise , it is a battle between 3: Zidane , Ronaldo & Maldini.
MVB was never a part of the argument.
Am not stating that Ronaldo is better but only his stats r better.

DonippoKakaShevdini · Feb 22, 2008

This is a more valid argument than one would think. Van Basten holds a legendary status at the Platini, Cruyff, and Beckenbauer level. Ronaldo isn't far off this list. He has not only consistently been effective at the International, La Liga, and Serie A domains, but he has recovered from multiple serious injuries as well in doing so. He has to be regarded as not only one of the finest strikers of his day, but of all time. His production speaks for itself. Look at his one season with both PSV and Barcelona. Almost 80 goals in 85 matches. Anyone else ever done that in two years?

zZ[-_-]Zz · Feb 22, 2008

Forza Milan...

drucurl · Feb 22, 2008

man above me:
That's why you read/watch from BOTH sources. It's not as biased as you think though....If Ronaldinho's hero could be Maradonna...and Tevez voted the BEST Corinthians forward, then there must be some fair reporting somewhere no?

THE MALDINESTA · Feb 22, 2008

gaizka22 said:
MvBasten is the closest thing to a complete player. For a 6’3” player, moves like a 5’5” player. He can do anything. Shoot with both feet, dribble, headings and passing. The last 2 are something that Ronaldo isn’t capable. When it comes to speed, both are equally impressive. Ronaldo in 96 – 98 can run very fast but MvBasten on his best playing days can run 100 meter under 11 seconds. Ronaldo’s strength is on his dribbling and skill to get goals while MvBasten can create magic from almost nothing.

Medal collection from National Team, Ronaldo is definitely ahead of MvBasten because of the World Cup win in 02 and his goals in 3 WC. Throughout his career, MvBasten only played in 4 World Cup games and scored 0. He only have the Euro 88 medal to boast.

Club wise, MvBasten is ahead of Ronaldo. Ronnie won 2 UEFA Cups, 1 Inter Continental Cup and 1 Spanish La Liga. MvBasten won 3 Scudetto, 2 Champions Cup, 2 European Super Cup, 2 Inter Continental Cup.

In terms of legacy. I still have the feeling that MvBasten is ahead of Ronnie (although I can be VERY biased since he is my fave player of all time). His last game ever was in May 93 when he was only 28 (after 4 months lay off). He still have at least 3-4 good seasons ahead of him. He was forced to retire when he was at his peak. And in 92 he was at his best season ever before injury cut him short in November 92. He scored 12 goals in 9 league games, and who can forget that 4 goals vs IFK Gothenborg.

In the list of FIFA all time greatest player, MvBasten was voted in number 9. Ahead of him are the usual suspects like Maradone, Pele, Di Stefano, Puskas, Cruyff, Beckenbauer, Platini (in no particular order). I can’t help think how he will be rated if injury doesn’t cut him short.

Capello said Ronaldo is better. He earns the right to say that. But let’s put it this way. He is a very tough and hard coach. He never smiled or applause when his team scores or won something important. The most he will do is nod his head in agreement. But he cried in the San Siro dug out and didn’t hide his tears from the camera when on August 18, 1995 MvBasten stepped on the field for a lap of honor to thank the tifosi.

Lastly, IMO Ronaldo embodied how the game should be played beautifully with all his step over, dribbling, speed and tricks. MvBasten is God's answer if we can ask Him to make us a complete player.

Nice bro.
For us who watched both of them in their prime times, would have more than 'love' to admit who's the better one.

Though I know Ronaldo won more with his NT, doesn't mean that he's better than Swan.
My vote goes to Marcel 'Marco' Van Basten, cause he made me want to watch more and more, his elegance on and off pitch was second to none.
To me he's the best package of gentleman, footballer,as well as coach.

zZ[-_-]Zz · Feb 22, 2008

Forza Milan...

A Wild Homosexual · Feb 22, 2008

zZ[-_-]Zz said:
so are you goin' to watch a few video clips of Maradona & Pele and from there decide who was better? you call those facts? please Wild... i expected better from you...

how about readin' reports written by other people? in Argentina... Maradona would be written like a god... likewise in Brazil... Pele is the king... so which is accurate?

I never said we should base our opinion on statistics.
I was explaining 2 u that statistics = numbers & not opinions.
Statistics = number of goals , assists .......

takahan · Feb 23, 2008

zZ[-_-]Zz said:
so far it seems that among those have seen both van Basten & fat boy... Marco is in the lead...

i wonder why... maybe because they don't rely on video footages & reports written by others?

Or maybe they start to appreciate a player more when they retired.
This topic is very unclear right from the beginning.
The poll is about who is a better striker, but the topic title is who is better,
Are we comparing stats? ability? or contribution? or maybe even looks.

I would say Ronaldo is the world best scoring machine.
even better than MVB.

But MVB contribute much more to his nation, as a player and a national coach.
MVB also help to develope the rules and regulation of football.
After he raise his voice about getting injury from many bad tackling, Fifa responsed by enforcing a stricter rules about tackle from behind.
When is the last time you see Fifa response something positive to players complaint.

Conclusion
Ronaldo has more personal glory but MVB contribute more.

GreatKalu · Feb 23, 2008

Two very talented forwards, both having injury problems. One tried his best to avoid and recover from his injury, while the other couldn't care less about what was causing his various injuries + has a never ending supply of excuses. One a Milan legend who kick-started this 20-year dominance Milan has had over Europe ... the other, a has-been who's retirement program went as per plan completely at Milan's expense. Enough? Please, don't degrade Milan legends. Thanks

Nielsenb41 · Feb 23, 2008

The question is who's a better striker, not who's the biggest Milan legend.

zZ[-_-]Zz · Feb 23, 2008

Forza Milan...

atreides602 · Feb 23, 2008

madtherchot said:
Two very talented forwards, both having injury problems. One tried his best to avoid and recover from his injury, while the other couldn't care less about what was causing his various injuries + has a never ending supply of excuses. One a Milan legend who kick-started this 20-year dominance Milan has had over Europe ... the other, a has-been who's retirement program went as per plan completely at Milan's expense. Enough? Please, don't degrade Milan legends. Thanks

well said bro

Madridista · Mar 28, 2008

madtherchot said:
Two very talented forwards, both having injury problems. One tried his best to avoid and recover from his injury, while the other couldn't care less about what was causing his various injuries + has a never ending supply of excuses. One a Milan legend who kick-started this 20-year dominance Milan has had over Europe ... the other, a has-been who's retirement program went as per plan completely at Milan's expense. Enough? Please, don't degrade Milan legends. Thanks

Another insight in people's minds by our very own mind reading psychological expert. Did by any chance Ronaldo tell you he couldn't care less about his injuries and did you personally watch Van Basten trying his best to avoid (however the fuck you can do that) and recover from his injury? There's your definition about facts people - things that aren't what this guy said.

Anyway, everybody knows that in terms of Milan legacy Ronaldo is 1/100 of Van Basten. Trophy wise, they are around the same level, with Ronaldo's World Cup probably giving him the edge. The real question is who has been the better footballer overall?

One can simplify and say Ronaldo was faster, stronger and better dribbler and MVB could do headers, lobs and scissorkicks (like dru did in the poll). But these are two of the best strikers in history. They are much more than that.

Van Basten was a fantastic player, complete is the most accurate word, as objective people around here say. He scored amazing goals and had superb technique and finishing. But Ronaldo... He is something different. He has the x-factor, the aura of domination, the perfect sense and awareness for football, unmatched dribbling and elegance, better than MVB's. Ronaldo is beautiful football epitomized, his speed and strength combined with his technique and finishing defined an era of football since his arrival onto the scene. The entire concept of defending was reshaped after Ronaldo and strikers of his genre started emerging, unlike before, thats how good his style was. If Van Basten was the perfect striker, Ronaldo was the dream striker. Van Basten did his job perfectly, but Ronaldo not only did his job, he inspired people while doing so and showed what football really is all about. He was more of an artist than van Basten.

To me Ronaldo is better than Van Basten, because of the fact that he is was more spectacular and because he had the ultimate forward's mental, physical and technical ability. Ronaldo can dazzle the way Van Basten despite all his striking prowess never could. Ronie can create, can confuse defenders with his feints and one-twos, can surprise with a single deciding pass or long curled (placed) shot. Van Basten couldn't do these things. People may consider workrate or effort more important, but that is the variety in understanding of basic football values; different cultures of football. I for one am a believer that beautiful playing - meaning power, pace and skill - is the essence of the game, others believe that the key is teamwork, spirit, loyalty, commitment... That is a crucial difference in viewpoints, maybe thats why I'm the minority; a player fan first and then team unlike most football fans - I admire the individual before the collective.

I believe while Van Basten was a nightmare for goalkeepers, Ronaldo was more of a nightmare for goalkeepers and defenders because of his ability to work his way up from deep, using his incredible footballing brain, quick feet and upper body strength. While Van Basten with his heading was probably more complete as a striker, Ronaldo was more complete as a forward/attacker - while MVB's finishing was lethal from a wider range of positions, Ronaldo is master of getting into a perfect position to score. In that aspect, I believe Ronaldo had a better general footballing instinct from Van Basten, one only equaled by Maradona. That is one of the reasons why I think that while Van Basten is in the 2nd batch of legends, with Eusebio, Beckenbauer, Platini, Muller, Rivelino, Zico, Romario, Maldini, Best, Charlton, Henry etc., Ronaldo is up there among the very greatest - Pele, Maradona, Cruyff and Zidane.

Anyway, this is a great topic drucurl, unfortunately polluted by the garbage the quoted poster has put forward.

karish · Mar 28, 2008

Ronaldo9 said:
Another insight in people's minds by our very own mind reading psychological expert. Did by any chance Ronaldo tell you he couldn't care less about his injuries and did you personally watch Van Basten trying his best to avoid (however the fuck you can do that) and recover from his injury? There's your definition about facts people - things that aren't what this guy said.

Anyway, everybody knows that in terms of Milan legacy Ronaldo is 1/100 of Van Basten. Trophy wise, they are around the same level, with Ronaldo's World Cup probably giving him the edge. The real question is who has been the better footballer overall?

One can simplify and say Ronaldo was faster, stronger and better dribbler and MVB could do headers, lobs and scissorkicks (like dru did in the poll). But these are two of the best strikers in history. They are much more than that.

Van Basten was a fantastic player, complete is the most accurate word, as objective people around here say. He scored amazing goals and had superb technique and finishing. But Ronaldo... He is something different. He has the x-factor, the aura of domination, the perfect sense and awareness for football, unmatched dribbling and elegance, better than MVB's. Ronaldo is beautiful football epitomized, his speed and strength combined with his technique and finishing defined an era of football since his arrival onto the scene. The entire concept of defending was reshaped after Ronaldo and strikers of his genre started emerging, unlike before, thats how good his style was. If Van Basten was the perfect striker, Ronaldo was the dream striker. Van Basten did his job perfectly, but Ronaldo not only did his job, he inspired people while doing so and showed what football really is all about. He was more of an artist than van Basten.

To me Ronaldo is better than Van Basten, because of the fact that he is was more spectacular and because he had the ultimate forward's mental, physical and technical ability. Ronaldo can dazzle the way Van Basten despite all his striking prowess never could. Ronie can create, can confuse defenders with his feints and one-twos, can surprise with a single deciding pass or long curled (placed) shot. Van Basten couldn't do these things. People may consider workrate or effort more important, but that is the variety in understanding of basic football values; different cultures of football. I for one am a believer that beautiful playing - meaning power, pace and skill - is the essence of the game, others believe that the key is teamwork, spirit, loyalty, commitment... That is a crucial difference in viewpoints, maybe thats why I'm the minority; a player fan first and then team unlike most football fans - I admire the individual before the collective.

I believe while Van Basten was a nightmare for goalkeepers, Ronaldo was more of a nightmare for goalkeepers and defenders because of his ability to work his way up from deep, using his incredible footballing brain, quick feet and upper body strength. While Van Basten with his heading was probably more complete as a striker, Ronaldo was more complete as a forward/attacker - while MVB's finishing was lethal from a wider range of positions, Ronaldo is master of getting into a perfect position to score. In that aspect, I believe Ronaldo had a better general footballing instinct from Van Basten, one only equaled by Maradona. That is one of the reasons why I think that while Van Basten is in the 2nd batch of legends, with Eusebio, Beckenbauer, Platini, Muller, Rivelino, Zico, Romario, Maldini, Best, Charlton, Henry etc., Ronaldo is up there among the very greatest - Pele, Maradona, Cruyff and Zidane.

Anyway, this is a great topic drucurl, unfortunately polluted by the garbage the quoted poster has put forward.

nice said my friend i think the same way you think ronnie is tha best

gaizka22 · Mar 28, 2008

Ronaldo9 said:
The entire concept of defending was reshaped after Ronaldo

Fast dribblers have always been around, the last before Ronaldo is Romario but I don't see anything changing. The entire concept of defending is changing because nowadays teams took more cautious route in the game and focus more on the result. 4 defenders, 2 DM, 1 striker. And may I add that tackles from behind and stronger punishment started after MvBasten complained about the 'treatment' he received from defenders.

Ronaldo9 said:
Ronie can create, can confuse defenders with his feints and one-twos, can surprise with a single deciding pass or long curled (placed) shot. Van Basten couldn't do these things.

Both can create chances for themselves equally good but MvBasten is better in terms of creating chances for other.

Ronaldo9 said:
I believe while Van Basten was a nightmare for goalkeepers, Ronaldo was more of a nightmare for goalkeepers and defenders because of his ability to work his way up from deep, using his incredible footballing brain, quick feet and upper body strength.

So a striker like MvB was only a threat to goalie? Show me a striker who only pose threats to goalie and never to a defender at the same time?

Ronaldo9 said:
...while MVB's finishing was lethal from a wider range of positions, Ronaldo is master of getting into a perfect position to score.

The term "Getting into perfect position" only applies to box striker (Pippo, RvNistelrooy), never to Ronaldo who is not at its best in terms of receiving assists and scoring, he is at his best creating chances from himself from outside the box. MvB can do both.

Ronaldo9 said:
In that aspect, I believe Ronaldo had a better general footballing instinct from Van Basten, one only equaled by Maradona. That is one of the reasons why I think that while Van Basten is in the 2nd batch of legends, with Eusebio, Beckenbauer, Platini, Muller, Rivelino, Zico, Romario, Maldini, Best, Charlton, Henry etc., Ronaldo is up there among the very greatest - Pele, Maradona, Cruyff and Zidane.

The greatest players is always debatable. Let's use fact, which is how all those players fared in the list of FIFA greatest ever player from online voting by the fans.

We could say that anybody proficient enough with the net (proficient enough to enable him/her to join online voting) are mostly those in the age range of 18 - 35. Those age are very exposed to Ronaldo, especially in terms of highlights, live coverage and video from the net. Why didn't Ronaldo name make the top 10?

As much as you try to be fair, your own very nick immediately showed which way you're leaning.

vashil · Mar 28, 2008

gaizka22 said:
As much as you try to be fair, your own very nick immediately showed which way you're leaning.

you too your fav player shows it all...

cmon ronaldo is the very best :proud:

gaizka22 · Mar 28, 2008

vashil said:
you too your fav player shows it all...

I know someone will mention that

vashil said:
cmon ronaldo is the very best

I guess we agree to disagree then

Madridista · Mar 28, 2008

Convinient for you to take single lines and reply to them. Anyway I'll respond:

gaizka22 said:
Fast dribblers have always been around, the last before Ronaldo is Romario but I don't see anything changing. The entire concept of defending is changing because nowadays teams took more cautious route in the game and focus more on the result. 4 defenders, 2 DM, 1 striker. And may I add that tackles from behind and stronger punishment started after MvBasten complained about the 'treatment' he received from defenders.

Fast dribblers have always been around, but I wasnt talking about them, but about the combination of speed, technique, finishing and power for the strikers. Before Ronaldo, the strikers were mainly divided been the quick nifty striker type of Romario, Bebeto, Zola, Baggio and more often the classic powerhouse like Lineker, Shearer, Bierhoff, Batistuta etc. The first lacked the power and the second lacked the technique and beauty. Ronaldo combined the best out of them two, even though there were players like Suker, Stoichkov, Van Basten and Vieri who were somewhere in between, still they weren't as balanced nor as gifted as Ronaldo in terms of physical, mental and technical ability.

As for the defences changing, I think that after Ronaldo (and as similar players started to emerge - like Sheva, Henry, Eto'o) much more emphasis were put on collective, tactical defending instead of using the tall, strong intimating sweeper to mark the striker out. The offside trap was also more seldom used, as after Ronaldo it was proven that defending from deep together with midfielders is more effective. That is how I think Ronaldo as the prototype and at the same time culmination of that striker class revolutionized football since the mid nineties.

gaizka22 said:
Both can create chances for themselves equally good but MvBasten is better in terms of creating chances for other.

I disagree, Ronaldo's vision and passing accuracy is better than Van Basten's and the way he gets the attention and draws the defenders and creates space for others is better. Also, again I will mention, Ronaldo's habit to come in from the deep or from the wings is one of the things that distinguish him. Van Basten never participated in the build up as much as Ronaldo.

gaizka22 said:
So a striker like MvB was only a threat to goalie? Show me a striker who only pose threats to goalie and never to a defender at the same time?

I meant in terms of the fear factor - Ronaldo had the defenders more worried about what he's gonna do next than Van Basten did, IMO.

gaizka22 said:
The term "Getting into perfect position" only applies to box striker (Pippo, RvNistelrooy), never to Ronaldo who is not at its best in terms of receiving assists and scoring, he is at his best creating chances from himself from outside the box. MvB can do both.

Ronaldo, especially post 2002 also became an expert in poaching, having slightly altered his style because of the physical limitations. However what I was really talking about was Ronaldo's ability to make the perfect run for a though ball, beat the offside trap and get into a good one on one position with the keeper. The sense/instinct of making a lightning quick off the ball diagonal run from behind the lines is one of Ronaldo's best abilities, aided by his speed. But after the injury, he also started using other elements more often, like long shots, tap-ins, crosses etc. (what dru's been sayin 'reinvented himself'). So Ronaldo also could do both, only that he used the more attractive approach more often than the other, when he was able to.

gaizka22 said:
The greatest players is always debatable. Let's use fact, which is how all those players fared in the list of FIFA greatest ever player from online voting by the fans.

We could say that anybody proficient enough with the net (proficient enough to enable him/her to join online voting) are mostly those in the age range of 18 - 35. Those age are very exposed to Ronaldo, especially in terms of highlights, live coverage and video from the net. Why didn't Ronaldo name make the top 10?

I don't see how anyone can disagree with the classification I made, but for the sake of the argument, lets say its true. However that list was made while Ronaldo was still active. Now that he's gotten close to retirement and people could evaluate his entire career, I think everywhere I read he was mentioned in the first class.

gaizka22 said:
As much as you try to be fair, your own very nick immediately showed which way you're leaning.

Whats not fair is shoving that in my face; should I change the nick to be taken seriously? Come on, read what I wrote and respond to it and not to the nick.

Ronaldo OR Van Basten

Who was a better striker

Ronaldo

Marco Van Basten

They were both equally good since Marco wasn't that fast and Ronaldo couldn't head a beach ball

Banned

The UNBANNABLE One

¤ Gli Invicibili ¤

Milan Icon

Banned

Gold Tie Hero

Apprentice father

¤ I Still Believe ¤

Milano Siamo Noi!

Milan Legend

Forever Milanista

*Rejuvenation*

*Rejuvenation*

Santo Baresi

¤ Gli Invicibili ¤

Banned

Lovin' Carin' N Nursin'

¤ Gli Invicibili ¤

*Rejuvenation*

Milan Veteran

I still believe!

Starting Eleven

¤ Gli Invicibili ¤

Cuore Rossonero

not exactly a lightweight

Kaka

Apprentice father

Starting Eleven

Apprentice father

not exactly a lightweight

Rejuvenation

Rejuvenation

Rejuvenation