The eternal discussion

#6

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The question that all of Italy always discusses is the one about whether Juventus is favourised by the referees. All the other teams fans claim that it is so and that the FIAT-family Agnelli's team can always count on the referees' help if needed.
Through history there are numeral incidents in the opposing fans' minds are help from the referees. Many of these happenings have taken place in less attentioned games, but strange things have also occured during extremly big "leageufinals" which have been significant for the outcome of the championship race.
From 1980 to this date there are above all four occasions that Juventus's foes claim proove that something's not in order in the Italian calcio.

The 10th of May 1981 Juventus took on Roma at Stadio Communale in Turin with only three games of the season left. Juventus has one point more than Roma in a game which has great signifigance for the outcome of league. At the score of 0-0 Romas Ramon Turone scores a goal that most people coonsidered correct.
The ref Paolo Bergamo allowed the goal at first, but in a matter of seconds he saw the linseman Sanci waving for offside. Consulting Sanci he decided not to allow the goal. By the TV-reruns it appeared as if Roma's goal had been nothing but rightful .
The game ended a draw and Juventus concluded their season as Italian champions.

One season after this occurance it was time again. With one game to go Fiorentina were at the top of the table with better goal differnce than Juventus. Fiorentina went to Sardinia to play Cagliari and Juventus went to play Catanzaro. For long it seemed as if both Fiorentina and Juventus had to settle with draws, thus being forced to play eachother for the goldmedal.
With 20 minutes left, Juventus is given a penalty which everybody but the Bianconeri thought was doubtful. Up steps Liam Brady who converts the penalty. Said and done, Juventus had ofor the second consecutive season the league after questionable refereeing.

The 26th of April 1998, with four games to go, Inter takes on Juventus at San Siro. Juventus are one point above Inter in table. In the second half Mark Iuliano trips Ronaldo and everybody expects that referee, Piero Ceccariini, will hand Inter a penalty.
He does not. Moments later, in a situation that looks like less of a penalty than the incident with Ronaldo, Juventus is given a penalty. The penalty is converted and with three games to go Juventus is four points ahead of Inter. That's an advantage that Juventus won't let go of.

The 7th of May 200, Juventus is two points before Lazio in the race the Scudetto. In 33th match of the season - in other words: with one game to go - Parma travel to Turin to play Juventus. In the final parts of the game Fabio Cannavaro headers the ball into the Juventus goal in a correct-looking manner. But Massimo de Santis, the referee, calls for a Juventus freekick. The part of Italy which doesn't root for Juventus is raging.
With one game to go, Juventus are still two points clear of Lazio. But Lady Luck wasn't on Juventus's side this time, and for many people, justice would be made. In a legendaric last game Juventus travel to Perugia while Lazio take on Reggina at home.
Lazio win their game easily but Juventus have a hard time against Perugia. All over Italy the sun is shining and the weather's beatiful. In Perugia, it's raining cats and dogs.
All the polemics from the previous week make it impossible for Pierluiga Collina, the ref, to pospone the game; that would only had been regarded as further proof that Juventus is favoured by the referees. Thus Collina lets the game take place. It doesn't take long before Perugia's Alessandro Callori scores the only goal of the match. Lazio are Italian champions.

These four incidents proove to many that Juventus are in fact favoured by the referees. That the issue is sensitive was shown when the Italian calcio handed out their "Oscars" in the fall of 2002. As part of the entertainment, a standup comedian joked about Juventus having the refs on their side.
The Juventus board didn't tolerate this and ordered Marcello Lippi and all of his players to leave the premesis of the awards The jokes at the awards came at not so good a time. In three of the first six matches of the leaugue, Juventus had doubtful refcalls taken in thier favour.

Juventus will always be blamed for being favourized by the refs. An aspect of this maybe the envy that the other teams feel towards Juve. Another aspect maybe the love of conspiarcy theories in Italy.
Even though there other referee-calls besides penalties, penalties are a good place from where to start in the quest for injustuce.
Juve last season were (together with Roma, the team that complains the most about injustices) the team which was handed the fewest amount of penalties against themselves.
But the statistics of penalties handed for them, does't differ much from the other teams. Then what's all the fuss about? Well, the other teams claim that Juventus are handed penalties in more "appropriate" situations than everybody else.

Needless to say, this is an eternal discussion.
 

mad4milan

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#6 said:
The 26th of April 1198, with four games to go, Inter takes on Juventus at San Siro.
:eek: Wow.... And I thought that modern football was born in 1863, Juve was founded in 1897, Inter in 1908 and that the San Siro was inaugurated in 1926... ;)

I don't know about the other guys and gals over here, but I'm personnaly tired of Sensi-and-Lady-Fergie-like talk about conspiracies... :rolleyes:

The teams who are placed at the top of the tables of any league have always had luck on their side in some form or another: a *good* call, a lucky bounce, a lucky goal, etc... That's nothing new. It's part of football, of any sport. Always has, always will.
 

#6

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mad4milan said:
#6 said:
The 26th of April 1198, with four games to go, Inter takes on Juventus at San Siro.
:eek: Wow.... And I thought that modern football was born in 1863, Juve was founded in 1897, Inter in 1908 and that the San Siro was inaugurated in 1926... ;)

Sorry that's 1998. It's been edited now
 

unrossonero

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mad4milan said:
I don't know about the other guys and gals over here, but I'm personnaly tired of Sensi-and-Lady-Fergie-like talk about conspiracies... :rolleyes:

The teams who are placed at the top of the tables of any league have always had luck on their side in some form or another: a *good* call, a lucky bounce, a lucky goal, etc... That's nothing new. It's part of football, of any sport. Always has, always will.
100% agree ... -0.1% :D :D :D in the sense that here you can't do without thinking that when juve is competing you need to hit them real hard ... ah, forget it, i can't explain it; let's say you're right mad4milan :rolleyes:
 

juninho-paulista

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mad4milan said:
#6 said:
The 26th of April 1198, with four games to go, Inter takes on Juventus at San Siro.
:eek: Wow.... And I thought that modern football was born in 1863, Juve was founded in 1897, Inter in 1908 and that the San Siro was inaugurated in 1926... ;)

I don't know about the other guys and gals over here, but I'm personnaly tired of Sensi-and-Lady-Fergie-like talk about conspiracies... :rolleyes:

The teams who are placed at the top of the tables of any league have always had luck on their side in some form or another: a *good* call, a lucky bounce, a lucky goal, etc... That's nothing new. It's part of football, of any sport. Always has, always will.

Very well said.

But! i must recount the Old Lady's match against Modena recently in which buffon deflected a freekick onto the crossbar, which bounced into the path of an oncoming Modena striker, who slotted it away.. fair goal. BUT it was ruled offside, although video evidence confirms it was not offside and infact a purely legit goal.. im not saying referees are on juventus's side, it just seems that they happen to get all the lucky decisions.. :rolleyes:
 

mamma_mia!

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It does seem a little odd, some of it. I mean i quite like watching Juve, i think they have a good team but while they sit on the top of the Serie A table their performances in the CL (such as that loss to Man Utd) have come second to the Milan squads.
I do admit i enjoy conspiracy theories as much as the next inquiring mind but is it just a case of them focusing more on the domestic league or do the UEFA refs not favor them? That said, if Juve win the scudetto this theory shouldn't take away from their efforts at all.
 

juninho-paulista

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I can believe Juventus scored TWO LATE GOALS to salvage a draw.. the only thing that would have infuriated me further would have been another to win!! 85" minute own goal.. a consolation i guess, but a 95" minute Camoranesi strike only a matter of seconds before full time.. REDICULOUS!!! i dont think this is neccessarily a matter of the ref's being on juventus's side, its just another example of the incredible luck they just happen to conjour when they need it.. (although i guess having 5 minutes of stoppage time is a conspiracy theory.. usually most matches have 2 or 3)

Absolutely Rediculous :rolleyes:
 

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i *tend* to believe that some of those conspiracy theories *might* contain more truth than we care to know which explains why we commonly discard or taboo them: we don't want our illusion to be destroyed. but of course i would *never* go as far as to claim the league was rigged. ;)

juves lucky moments just occur one time too many, don't they? ;) then again milan could be well included in the list of cheaters, or have you all forgotten the penalty discussion earlier this year? ;)

whatsoever.... i had a dream one night: 5 figures meet once in a long while, during pre-season, for a game of cards or dice. briefcases are exchanged under the table and at the end of the night everone seems happy. the old lady leaves with a hidden grin on her face while in some other place some other men in black impatiently fumble with that suitcase... :D
 

unrossonero

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*rossonera* said:
whatsoever.... i had a dream one night: 5 figures meet once in a long while, during pre-season, for a game of cards or dice. briefcases are exchanged under the table and at the end of the night everone seems happy. the old lady leaves with a hidden grin on her face while in some other place some other men in black impatiently fumble with that suitcase... :D
... tom clancy :conf: :conf: :)
 

DonippoKakaShevdini

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:devilass: Hunchbacks.........

unrossonero........hit them hard........Understood ;)

to put into universal terms.......a unified team effort in the derby d' Italia would likely do away with Juve's one dubious decision per match. They are going to get their stroke of luck in some way or form as Mad4Milan has correctly identified. The idea here is to remove that margin of error from their game.

I honestly was waiting for it at the San Siro clash when we played them......we held onto a 2-1 lead for almost 70 minutes vs JUVENTUS :eek: :eek: :eek:

EASIER said than done.......especially within Italy. :)
 

juninho-paulista

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RivippoRuiNestaShevdini said:
I honestly was waiting for it at the San Siro clash when we played them......we held onto a 2-1 lead for almost 70 minutes vs JUVENTUS :eek: :eek: :eek:

EASIER said than done.......especially within Italy. :)

Was Pierluigi Collina (the Alien) the Ref. for that match? Hes the only official i trust (because he isn't human) :D
 

fbvanBasten

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Just wait for next week match when Juve take on Roma. Is there any controversy in that game? The game is really crucial for Juve to their scudetto dream. If they lost that match and Milan win, i think Milan will win the race.
 

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IMO Sensi is delusional to even think that there is this big conspiracy to favor Juve. But it seems to me that in a vast majority of calls that could have gone either way, Juve seems to get them. But This is true in most sports where the top team always seems to get a few crucial calls.

Having said that, there are some officials who should never be allowed to ref any serie A game. Maybe the league should focus on training more high quality referees instead of some of the incompetent refs that we see. There are a few great refs like Collina and Paparesta who never seem to make mistakes and never favors any team where as some others seem to be completely blind...
 

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juninho-paulista said:
RivippoRuiNestaShevdini said:
I honestly was waiting for it at the San Siro clash when we played them......we held onto a 2-1 lead for almost 70 minutes vs JUVENTUS :eek: :eek: :eek:

EASIER said than done.......especially within Italy. :)

Was Pierluigi Collina (the Alien) the Ref. for that match? Hes the only official i trust (because he isn't human) :D

Paparesta is challenging Collina for top ref in Italy, and has been doing a good job of it.
 

#6

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Seamus said:
Paparesta is challenging Collina for top ref in Italy, and has been doing a good job of it.

I don't like Paparesta; he's too pro-Juve (he was the referee when juve faced bologna).
Collina is too commercial (i didn't know ref could be), if u get my drift.
my fav is rossetti (the one who took care of the milano derby).
 

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For all of you that think Juve gets special attention, check out

www.antijuve.com

It's an entire site dedicated to all the times the call went towards Juve when it mattered, or they come back from down 4 goals(w/ the help of a couple of questionable penalty kicks), or the league didn't penalize them when they would have any other team. Unfortunaty it's in Italian, so unless you speak it it's kinda hard. I used the translator on altavista.com to read some of it.

Even if you can't read it you have to see some of the pictures. There is ones in Moggi's Story of Moggi standing w/ Hitler, sitting between Curchill & Stalin, dressed like Bin Laden, watching when JFK was shot. My favorite is as the evil emperor in Star Wars standing next to Darth Vader. Search around the whole site - it's hilarious!

I learned about it from Tim Park's A Season With Verona, and once again am going to suggest you all read it. There is almost an entire chapter about favortism and a bunch of great stuff on the league and Italian fans. It's funny as hell. Here's a small excerpt of him talking about www.antijuve.com:

"Going back to before the war, it lists all the occasions on which half of Italy is convinced that the Turin club bought their way to footballing fame with their owners' - Fiat's - money." You learn that Juve was the only club involved in the betting scandals of the eighties not to be seriously punished, the only club not to agree to random dope testing. As you get to more recent seasons, there are videos showing amazing refereeing decisions."

:devil3:
 

scharatz

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#6 said:
The 26th of April 1998, with four games to go, Inter takes on Juventus at San Siro. Juventus are one point above Inter in table. In the second half Mark Iuliano trips Ronaldo and everybody expects that referee, Piero Ceccariini, will hand Inter a penalty.
He does not. Moments later, in a situation that looks like less of a penalty than the incident with Ronaldo, Juventus is given a penalty. The penalty is converted and with three games to go Juventus is four points ahead of Inter. That's an advantage that Juventus won't let go of.

i always thought that del piero intentionally missed that penalty, to ease the tension
 

#6

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scharatz said:
i always thought that del piero intentionally missed that penalty, to ease the tension

No one in Juventus does these things.

btw antijuve was really funny. maybe just a tad too much (but funny!!)
 

*rossonera*

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unrossonero said:
*rossonera* said:
whatsoever.... i had a dream one night: 5 figures meet once in a long while, during pre-season, for a game of cards or dice. briefcases are exchanged under the table and at the end of the night everone seems happy. the old lady leaves with a hidden grin on her face while in some other place some other men in black impatiently fumble with that suitcase... :D

... tom clancy :conf: :conf: :)

clancy?

fiction.

milan winning the big matches and losing + drawing to bottom-table teams + relegation candidates?

a very strange reality.

and a very non-erratic pattern.

coincidence?

i *bet* some people somewhere make a lot of money...
 

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