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Old 23-08-2004, 06:46   #81
Mensch
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Originally Posted by natascha
guys, did you see inzaghi biting his nails ? gosh i miss him ...
Yes! perhaps it would be just great again to see Pippo and I am also sorry that such extraordinary striker had to miss such clash.

But does anybody see how much better Milan plays without him. I think it is because two forward formation. Cause when Sheva plays alongside with Pippo they do not perform well together. It is cause Pippo is much more "alone playing" striker. I mean he needs not second striker but two attacking midfielder, as it was with Rivaldo and Rui Costa when Pippo was one of the best.
But then Sheva was back and there were obviously problems in Milan attack. But last season Milan played two strikers-formation and Sheva played much more usually with JDT or Kaka. And Milan became just great. So now I have again some doubts about Pippos future in Milan. It's a pity but very seems so.
Pehaps it would be only better......
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Old 23-08-2004, 08:39   #82
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Originally Posted by Mensch
But does anybody see how much better Milan plays without him. I think it is because two forward formation. Cause when Sheva plays alongside with Pippo they do not perform well together. (...) But then Sheva was back and there were obviously problems in Milan attack. But last season Milan played two strikers-formation and Sheva played much more usually with JDT or Kaka. And Milan became just great.
Ah.. you must be percik's moderate brother + sav10's cousin...

No, Milan was not sooo much better cos Pippo was out, Milan was somewhat better cos Kaka' injected some life in our previously lame-ass midfield. The midfield was the major reason why the Sheva/Pippo combination didn't seem to be too effective the season before, aside from Sheva's form slump, don't you remember that during the 2nd leg Rui didn't even manage to complete short-distance passes... Also, Sheva finally recovered his impressive scoring ways after his rather lenghty slump but Milan had their share of mediocre matches nevertheless, it's really NOT like they were brilliant throughout the season, in fact there was fairly little brilliance, they were more efficient + successful in playing result-oriented.. but brilliance is sth else.


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Originally Posted by Mensch
So now I have again some doubts about Pippos future in Milan. It's a pity but very seems so.
Pehaps it would be only better......
Yea sure... you wish If Pippo's injury prob persists I'm sure the club + Pippo will find a solution that takes into account his previous contributions to Milan's success. Anyway, right now that's nothing but speculation + wishful thinking of the likes of you, in fact medical staff so far seems positive that he will return at the beginning of the season... I haven't lost faith yet If he returns I'm positive he won't be worse than that Chelsea reject Crespo who now has resorted to faking injury to cover up his catastrophic out-of-shape condition.

I'm more worried about this scenario: Pippo out, Crespo useless, Sheva injured or out of form + our attack depending on JDT who despite having a decent season last year will never be more than a second striker. There's Pozzi, but does anyone really believe he's gonna be an instant success ? I'd go for Kaka' upfront then... but our midfield would be left bleak with defensive-destructive Gattuso + Ambrosini + slowmotion Seedorf + equally slow Pirlo. I don't have much faith in Dhorasoo + Rui in his old days won't accelerate the match either... A lot will depend on whether Sheva manages to conserve his form as we can't count on Crespo, that much is sure.

FORZA PIPPO !!!


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Old 23-08-2004, 09:31   #83
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Originally Posted by Mensch
But does anybody see how much better Milan plays without him. I think it is because two forward formation. Cause when Sheva plays alongside with Pippo they do not perform well together. (...) But then Sheva was back and there were obviously problems in Milan attack. But last season Milan played two strikers-formation and Sheva played much more usually with JDT or Kaka. And Milan became just great.
Ah.. you must be percik's moderate brother + sav10's cousin...

No, Milan was not sooo much better cos Pippo was out, Milan was somewhat better cos Kaka' injected some life in our previously lame-ass midfield. The midfield was the major reason why the Sheva/Pippo combination didn't seem to be too effective the season before, aside from Sheva's form slump, don't you remember that during the 2nd leg Rui didn't even manage to complete short-distance passes... Also, Sheva finally recovered his impressive scoring ways after his rather lenghty slump but Milan had their share of mediocre matches nevertheless, it's really NOT like they were brilliant throughout the season, in fact there was fairly little brilliance, they were more efficient + successful in playing result-oriented.. but brilliance is sth else.


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Originally Posted by Mensch
So now I have again some doubts about Pippos future in Milan. It's a pity but very seems so.
Pehaps it would be only better......
Yea sure... you wish If Pippo's injury prob persists I'm sure the club + Pippo will find a solution that takes into account his previous contributions to Milan's success. Anyway, right now that's nothing but speculation + wishful thinking of the likes of you, in fact medical staff so far seems positive that he will return at the beginning of the season... I haven't lost faith yet If he returns I'm positive he won't be worse than that Chelsea reject Crespo who now has resorted to faking injury to cover up his catastrophic out-of-shape condition.

I'm more worried about this scenario: Pippo out, Crespo useless, Sheva injured or out of form + our attack depending on JDT who despite having a decent season last year will never be more than a second striker. There's Pozzi, but does anyone really believe he's gonna be an instant success ? I'd go for Kaka' upfront then... but our midfield would be left bleak with defensive-destructive Gattuso + Ambrosini + slowmotion Seedorf + equally slow Pirlo. I don't have much faith in Dhorasoo + Rui in his old days won't accelerate the match either... A lot will depend on whether Sheva manages to conserve his form as we can't count on Crespo, that much is sure.

FORZA PIPPO !!!
Sorry but this is a load of crap in my opinion. We have on of the strongest teams in the world, thats a fact. We´ve won pretty much everything during the last two seasons and this year with the changes made the team looks even stronger. To say the midfield is worthless and uninspirering without Kaka is a joke as we won the CL and the Coppa without him. Yes, we are even stronger now that he is here but the other players are not worse!

About our strikers and the "problem" we have with them. We have one top-class striker more than we have had the last two, three seasons (where we won everything and obviously scored goals enough to do it) this year. Sheva, JDT, Pippo and Crespo is more than enough firepower once the season gets underway and everybody start getting into 100% shape. Buying more or new wound just result in wasting money. Maybe you would like Milan to buy Kuraniy or Klose or one of the other "top" german goal machines who ofcause is much better than Sheva and JDT put together. We have the best team in the world and for once they´ve even started the season (pre-season) very well so why not enjoy the moment.


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Old 23-08-2004, 09:33   #84
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true, and agree

let`s just hope that our dearest coach would make pippo even better than what he is :P anyway, how long does it take for pippo to take a rest ? it`s quite sometime ...
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Old 23-08-2004, 10:18   #85
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Yea sure... you wish If Pippo's injury prob persists I'm sure the club + Pippo will find a solution that takes into account his previous contributions to Milan's success. Anyway, right now that's nothing but speculation + wishful thinking of the likes of you, in fact medical staff so far seems positive that he will return at the beginning of the season... I haven't lost faith yet If he returns I'm positive he won't be worse than that Chelsea reject Crespo who now has resorted to faking injury to cover up his catastrophic out-of-shape condition.

I'm more worried about this scenario: Pippo out, Crespo useless, Sheva injured or out of form + our attack depending on JDT who despite having a decent season last year will never be more than a second striker. There's Pozzi, but does anyone really believe he's gonna be an instant success ? I'd go for Kaka' upfront then... but our midfield would be left bleak with defensive-destructive Gattuso + Ambrosini + slowmotion Seedorf + equally slow Pirlo. I don't have much faith in Dhorasoo + Rui in his old days won't accelerate the match either... A lot will depend on whether Sheva manages to conserve his form as we can't count on Crespo, that much is sure.

FORZA PIPPO !!!
you have a really negative way of looking at things that don't have to do with pippo...its a shame, passion, because it must be really hard for you to appreciate good times.

you're the most pessimistic fan of the defending serie a champions i know. thank god you're not a juve or an inter fan, you'd probably commit suicide.

at least you're stam bashing has stopped...or have i spoken to soon?
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Old 23-08-2004, 10:23   #86
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Sorry but this is a load of crap in my opinion. We have on of the strongest teams in the world, thats a fact. We´ve won pretty much everything during the last two seasons and this year with the changes made the team looks even stronger. To say the midfield is worthless and uninspirering without Kaka is a joke as we won the CL and the Coppa without him. Yes, we are even stronger now that he is here but the other players are not worse!
And IMO you're talking crap. Milan did not win 'pretty much everything', they won the CL + Coppa + then the scudetto + the Italian supercoppa this year but they were aiming a lot higher than that, the 'we're gonna win it all.. we're the best' BS still rings loud enough in my ears. Our squad is OK but there is always room for improvement + to content oneself with the current status is the first step towards failure. IF adding a bunch of old farts + that loser that Chelsea dumped on us truly will make our team stronger can be doubted + just has to be seen in the future, it definitely isn't a certainty as you would like it to appear. A win against a currently very mediocre side such as Lazio is nothing to draw premature conclusions from with regard to Milan's true level of performance. As for Kaka's role.. He did add sth that Milan was lacking: speed + a quicker build-up play. If you really can't remember those awful displays of Jan. - May 2003 you suffer from selective memory or sth... There was a reason for why people went anti-Rui + anti-Seedorf.

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Originally Posted by Vernetti
About our strikers and the "problem" we have with them. We have one top-class striker more than we have had the last two, three seasons (where we won everything and obviously scored goals enough to do it) this year. Sheva, JDT, Pippo and Crespo is more than enough firepower once the season gets underway and everybody start getting into 100% shape. Buying more or new wound just result in wasting money. Maybe you would like Milan to buy Kuraniy or Klose or one of the other "top" german goal machines who ofcause is much better than Sheva and JDT put together. We have the best team in the world and for once they´ve even started the season (pre-season) very well so why not enjoy the moment.
It's beyond me how you + others are immune to the fact that Crespo hasn't been top class for 3 years. Chelsea got rid of him for a reason !!! I know it's kinda hard for some to take a realistic + somewhat neutral viewpoint + admit that the best team in the world had Chelsea dump their crap on them, well... if you can't admit it now, you will by the end of the season. Guaranteed

You're talking crap regarding Kuraniy + Klose.. I've never hyped them, I'm not blinded by dull nationalism + only hype quality anyway, so sorry I don't live up to your cliché

Getting Gila (for example) before some other club secures his service isn't a bad idea. And certainly not a waste of money. Investing in the future + starting the future now by integrating classy young players is never a waste of money. I wish Ancelotti would learn a thing from Wenger in this regard.


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Old 23-08-2004, 10:51   #87
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you have a really negative way of looking at things that don't have to do with pippo...its a shame, passion, because it must be really hard for you to appreciate good times.
Absolutely not. But I don't get stuck there in celebration forever. If you want to make the good times last you need to be pro-active + work + not become content + complacent + start to believe the hype + those sucking up to you blabla... Success is not automatically long-lived + while I do enjoy + appreciate it I also see the disparity between claims/goals + reality... It's a long way to become the best team in the world + confirm the status over + over again over a longer period. Milan are not there yet. To get + stay there you can't afford to be content but have to constantly think about improvements + address even the slightest problems..

Just leave Pippo out of the equation cos he doesn't belong there in this context.


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you're the most pessimistic fan of the defending serie a champions i know. thank god you're not a juve or an inter fan, you'd probably commit suicide. at least you're stam bashing has stopped...or have i spoken to soon?
Thanks for your concern but I'm not the least bit pessimistic, let alone depressed + suicidal. Call me realistic + foresighted if you really need to call me sth.

I stand by my opinion that Stam was a waste of money. He blocks the space for s.o. younger for 2 years + not only that.. I got my impression confirmed that his play is becoming risky + more often than not he doesn't have another solution than committing a foul to resolve a situation. It's also too early to say how Maldini on the left is going to pan out. As I wrote somewhere else, I can't wait to see Milan play real competition + I can't wait for the season to start + I hope all will go well, and if the cautious part of my optimism will be proven unwarranted... the better


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Old 23-08-2004, 11:21   #88
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Good game I enjoyd every minute of it Now we're Supercampioni d'Italia



Sheva scored 3 brilliant goals, in this moment he's the best striker in the world playing for the best team in the world



Dida 7 Reliable with 1 briliant save
Cafu 7 Did enormous amount of running and crosses
Stam 6.5 OK
Nesta 7 good
Maldini 8 Fantastic, up and down very well , defended superbly, he interpreted his role perfectly
Rui 6.5 Showed he can be a sub for Pirlo.
Rino 6.5 good
Ambrosini 6.5 great assit for sheva
Kaka 6+ a couple of good runs, but not an amazing performance
Sheva 8.5 Simply a complete striker
JDT 6 Worked a lot but produced nothing

Yesteday SuperPippo said he will be ready for the first match against Livorno, Yess

bye
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Old 23-08-2004, 12:25   #89
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Ah.. you must be percik's moderate brother + sav10's cousin...

No, Milan was not sooo much better cos Pippo was out, Milan was somewhat better cos Kaka' injected some life in our previously lame-ass midfield. The midfield was the major reason why the Sheva/Pippo combination didn't seem to be too effective the season before, aside from Sheva's form slump, don't you remember that during the 2nd leg Rui didn't even manage to complete short-distance passes... Also, Sheva finally recovered his impressive scoring ways after his rather lenghty slump but Milan had their share of mediocre matches nevertheless, it's really NOT like they were brilliant throughout the season, in fact there was fairly little brilliance, they were more efficient + successful in playing result-oriented.. but brilliance is sth else.
Ye, Passion I understand you, surely it is not a great pleasure to hear not the exciting things about people you like, especially when it is (perhaps) more than only favorite player. I didn’t want to harm you “saying unreasonable” things about somebody you like. Yes, I said and I still think and it is some sort of obvious thing that Milan played better with Sheva – JDT/Kaka, and afterward (with time) I am sure that Sheva-Crespo (if there will not be injuries) will become the most dangerous and perfect playing attacking duo in the world. But I have explained my opinion about Inzaghi!
Though I think Inzaghi really belongs to great strikers I had and I still think that in present formation there is no place for him, really sorry but it is.
I can go further with explanation.
I think you remember Juve 97/98 – 00/01 when Pippo played in “juventino” jersey. When you “do” then you should remember Juve formation in such times. Juve played with two attacking midfielder and one striker. Surely it was genius Zidane, player “from God” Del Piero and some sort of phenomenon Pippo. And please – don’t say (anybody) that Del Piero has played as a striker – then you just didn’t watch Juve at that time. There were 2 attacking midfielder and 1 striker. Inzaghi was on top in such plaing team. (By the way as, after Lippi changed Ancelotti and again came to Juve, Del Piero began playing as a second forward, he complained a couple times in the newspapers that he see himself as a playmaker behind two strikers). At Inzaghi’s last season in Turin Juve went through very difficult period, the team was full of stars but didn’t manage to show steady performance. Ancelotti began doing more experiments, Juve started playing more in two forward formation, Inzaghi found himself more often warming the bench cause young Treseguet played good and in new formation even better with Del Piero, than it was scandal between Inzaghi and Del Piero.

So Pippo left Juve. He started in Milan under Terim’s coaching, playing alongside with Sheva and Costa behind them, then came Ancelotti again, long time injury, then recovering and old formation Costa/Serginho(AM/AML) + Sheva much deeper and Inzaghi alone striker. So, in that season, under Terim’s coaching (2 forward formation) Inzaghi scored 3 times in Seria A (Inter, Udine, Vicenzia ), under Ancelotti (one striker formation) 7 times. One year in Luve, one yaer in Milan in two forward formation, only 10 goals per season - nothing for really great striker!!!

Ancelotti understood due to his last experience how he should use Inzaghi and make him scoring so in the next season with Rivaldo arrival and Sheva’s long time injury he continued to use one striker formation taking from Inzaghi all he could to take and Inzaghi gave result. Everybody again watched dangerous Inzaghi about whom F.Cannovaro said once – "he is my nightmare". Then with Sheva recovery - situation has changed Ancelotti was aware of it - Sheva also a great strikers with him everybody forgot about Van Basten also Berlusconni like him and he understood that when he got back to 2 forwards from the start it would have unpredictable consequences. But at first it was not such bad cause during game against Inter (Milan won 1-0 16‘ Serginho) Inzaghi played bad and was reasonable changed for Sheva who "has(as newspapers wrote) for 20 minutes done more on the pitch then Inzaghi for 70". Then the game against Real, Sheva/Rui Costa magnificent winning goal. And now there was Milan – Roma. Ancelotti started Only with Sheva and Serginho much deeper, only couple opportunitys in the first half, a bad start of second, Ancelotti let Inzaghi on for Serginho and after 5 minutes and Sheva’s assist Inzaghi made the winning.
Sorry! that I wrote so many and so detailed. It was needed to explain what happened then!
Berlusconni barged in not his business and ordered Ancelotti always play with two strikers not understanding the matter of problem. Milan was supposed to rebuild its style of playing and that was one of the biggest problems for Ancelotti. How to change from shaped and trained formation to the new and perhaps not such effective one. So then began problems in at first so effective performance. Inzaghi scored not such oft, Sheva sometimes, again his injury, recovering but it was absolute obvious that such two great strikers cannot find common language on the field. Mediocre play in Seria A, only cause other was even worse Milan reached Final of CL. Some lucking win over without key man Nedved Juve in penalty round. Next season – Ancelotti was surely aware of situation, he needed a scoring Attacking midfielder to compensate goal deficit from attacking duo. Kaka came and it turned to be the right choice, though Kaka didn’t make amount of assist he supposed to do but and it is the main he started scoring and with Sheva he formed the main attacking power. And what Inzaghi? - 3 month of nothing, then injury, recovery again and again nothing (only 2 goals) very few as for the player who can it only – only it.

So now I will not do any comparisons and conclusions, I believe you are absolute able to do it alone.
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Old 23-08-2004, 12:56   #90
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you have a really negative way of looking at things that don't have to do with pippo...its a shame, passion, because it must be really hard for you to appreciate good times.
Absolutely not. But I don't get stuck there in celebration forever. If you want to make the good times last you need to be pro-active + work + not become content + complacent + start to believe the hype + those sucking up to you blabla... Success is not automatically long-lived + while I do enjoy + appreciate it I also see the disparity between claims/goals + reality... It's a long way to become the best team in the world + confirm the status over + over again over a longer period. Milan are not there yet. To get + stay there you can't afford to be content but have to constantly think about improvements + address even the slightest problems..
you know what? If you were Adriano Galliani, then i would congratulate you on your mentality and your devotion to milan...it's really important, like you said, to be pro active and not be complacement. but guess what...
YOUR NOT ADRIANO GALLIANI.
call me stupid, but i don't think a worried fan makes that much difference to, yes, the biggest team in club football in the universe.

good for you if you think its your responsibility to take care of ac milan...but i'd rather sit back, watch, and appreciate the club that i love so much.
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Old 23-08-2004, 13:09   #91
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good for you if you think its your responsibility to take care of ac milan...but i'd rather sit back, watch, and appreciate the club that i love so much.
Hm... you're not just sitting back, none of us is, in fact...

We all pretend to be lil coaches + managers + come here to express our collective 'wisdom' about what's good + what's bad + what needs improving according to our very humble opinions, aside from merely expressing emotions over results, or else forums like this one wouldn't even exist...



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Old 23-08-2004, 13:23   #92
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Originally Posted by us_bombs
good for you if you think its your responsibility to take care of ac milan...but i'd rather sit back, watch, and appreciate the club that i love so much.
Hm... you're not just sitting back, none of us is, in fact...

We all pretend to be lil coaches + managers + come here to express our collective 'wisdom' about what's good + what's bad + what needs improving according to our very humble opinions, aside from merely expressing emotions over results, or else forums like this one wouldn't even exist...

fair enough.

the bottom line is that we all share a 'passion' ( ) for ac milan, whether we disagree or not. i'm sure you're cheering just as loud as i am when we score against inter...well maybe not quite as loud as me....
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Old 23-08-2004, 14:22   #93
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Ye, Passion I understand you, surely it is not a great pleasure to hear not the exciting things about people you like, especially when it is (perhaps) more than only favorite player. I didn’t want to harm you “saying unreasonable” things about somebody you like.
OK I bite... No, I don't love him, if that's what you try to say using 10000 redundant words. Your insinuations are getting really old, 'Edgar' (or is it Andriy ?)...

As for the rest, I won't waste my time on a percik rehash + the usual opinionated drivel on how bad s.o. is who played a major role in winning the CL + how great s.o. is who has yet to play one match for Milan + the usual 1 vs 2 strikers unsubstantiated bull that disregards the complexity of the issue, esp. the correlation between midfield + attack + other crucial factors, one of which being Sheva's longish out-of-form spell + later on Pippo's injuries (what can you expect from s.o. who is out more than 6 months out of 9 ??)....

Final words: Make your mind up about whether del Piero played as a striker or midfielder, you're contradicting yourself. OK I help you to speed up the process, Juve played with 2 strikers, of course del Piero was + is a striker with some playmaking quality, not a poacher/predator, but a striker or forward nontheless. His more recent attempts at playing in a playmaking role were a sad sight to see btw but that's of no relevance in this context. Anyway, as a striker he later partnered with Trez who btw doesn't really like to play as a lone striker. So.. 2 strikers it was at Juve... glad I could be of assistance in getting your facts right.

Well, well... I've said too much already, my opinion on this + other stuff is out there + I bet ur familiar with it, I'm not gonna repeat myself ad nauseam, as well as I will disregard further percik-type posts.

EOM.


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Old 23-08-2004, 14:25   #94
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good for you if you think its your responsibility to take care of ac milan...but i'd rather sit back, watch, and appreciate the club that i love so much.
Hm... you're not just sitting back, none of us is, in fact...

We all pretend to be lil coaches + managers + come here to express our collective 'wisdom' about what's good + what's bad + what needs improving according to our very humble opinions, aside from merely expressing emotions over results, or else forums like this one wouldn't even exist...

fair enough.

the bottom line is that we all share a 'passion' ( ) for ac milan, whether we disagree or not. i'm sure you're cheering just as loud as i am when we score against inter...well maybe not quite as loud as me....

If you only had some idea of how much I detest Inter there would be not even the slightest doubt about who is cheering louder (and cussing, if necessary )


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Old 23-08-2004, 14:51   #95
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Originally Posted by Mensch
Ye, Passion I understand you, surely it is not a great pleasure to hear not the exciting things about people you like, especially when it is (perhaps) more than only favorite player. I didn’t want to harm you “saying unreasonable” things about somebody you like.
OK I bite... No, I don't love him, if that's what you try to say using 10000 redundant words. Your insinuations are getting really old, 'Edgar' (or is it Andriy ?)...

As for the rest, I won't waste my time on a percik rehash + the usual opinionated drivel on how bad s.o. is who played a major role in winning the CL + how great s.o. is who has yet to play one match for Milan + the usual 1 vs 2 strikers unsubstantiated bull that disregards the complexity of the issue, esp. the correlation between midfield + attack + other crucial factors, one of which being Sheva's longish out-of-form spell + later on Pippo's injuries (what can you expect from s.o. who is out more than 6 months out of 9 ??)....

Final words: Make your mind up about whether del Piero played as a striker or midfielder, you're contradicting yourself. OK I help you to speed up the process, Juve played with 2 strikers, of course del Piero was + is a striker with some playmaking quality, not a poacher/predator, but a striker or forward nontheless. His more recent attempts at playing in a playmaking role were a sad sight to see btw but that's of no relevance in this context. Anyway, as a striker he later partnered with Trez who btw doesn't really like to play as a lone striker. So.. 2 strikers it was at Juve... glad I could be of assistance in getting your facts right.

Well, well... I've said too much already, my opinion on this + other stuff is out there + I bet ur familiar with it, I'm not gonna repeat myself ad nauseam, as well as I will disregard further percik-type posts.

EOM.
Germa...and you speak better english than I do... Whats the world coming to
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Old 23-08-2004, 14:54   #96
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[size=1]
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Originally Posted by Mensch
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Originally Posted by Passion for *9*

Ah.. you must be percik's moderate brother + sav10's cousin...

No, Milan was not sooo much better cos Pippo was out, Milan was somewhat better cos Kaka' injected some life in our previously lame-ass midfield. The midfield was the major reason why the Sheva/Pippo combination didn't seem to be too effective the season before, aside from Sheva's form slump, don't you remember that during the 2nd leg Rui didn't even manage to complete short-distance passes... Also, Sheva finally recovered his impressive scoring ways after his rather lenghty slump but Milan had their share of mediocre matches nevertheless, it's really NOT like they were brilliant throughout the season, in fact there was fairly little brilliance, they were more efficient + successful in playing result-oriented.. but brilliance is sth else.
[size=7]Ye, Passion I understand you, surely it is not a great pleasure to hear not the exciting things about people you like, especially when it is (perhaps) more than only favorite player. I didn’t want to harm you “saying unreasonable” things about somebody you like. Yes, I said and I still think and it is some sort of obvious thing that Milan played better with Sheva – JDT/Kaka, and afterward (with time) I am sure that Sheva-Crespo (if there will not be injuries) will become the most dangerous and perfect playing attacking duo in the world. But I have explained my opinion about Inzaghi!
Though I think Inzaghi really belongs to great strikers I had and I still think that in present formation there is no place for him, really sorry but it is.
I can go further with explanation.
I think you remember Juve 97/98 – 00/01 when Pippo played in “juventino” jersey. When you “do” then you should remember Juve formation in such times. Juve played with two attacking midfielder and one striker. Surely it was genius Zidane, player “from God” Del Piero and some sort of phenomenon Pippo. And please – don’t say (anybody) that Del Piero has played as a striker – then you just didn’t watch Juve at that time. There were 2 attacking midfielder and 1 striker. Inzaghi was on top in such plaing team. (By the way as, after Lippi changed Ancelotti and again came to Juve, Del Piero began playing as a second forward, he complained a couple times in the newspapers that he see himself as a playmaker behind two strikers). At Inzaghi’s last season in Turin Juve went through very difficult period, the team was full of stars but didn’t manage to show steady performance. Ancelotti began doing more experiments, Juve started playing more in two forward formation, Inzaghi found himself more often warming the bench cause young Treseguet played good and in new formation even better with Del Piero, than it was scandal between Inzaghi and Del Piero.

So Pippo left Juve. He started in Milan under Terim’s coaching, playing alongside with Sheva and Costa behind them, then came Ancelotti again, long time injury, then recovering and old formation Costa/Serginho(AM/AML) + Sheva much deeper and Inzaghi alone striker. So, in that season, under Terim’s coaching (2 forward formation) Inzaghi scored 3 times in Seria A (Inter, Udine, Vicenzia ), under Ancelotti (one striker formation) 7 times. One year in Luve, one yaer in Milan in two forward formation, only 10 goals per season - nothing for really great striker!!!

Ancelotti understood due to his last experience how he should use Inzaghi and make him scoring so in the next season with Rivaldo arrival and Sheva’s long time injury he continued to use one striker formation taking from Inzaghi all he could to take and Inzaghi gave result. Everybody again watched dangerous Inzaghi about whom F.Cannovaro said once – "he is my nightmare". Then with Sheva recovery - situation has changed Ancelotti was aware of it - Sheva also a great strikers with him everybody forgot about Van Basten also Berlusconni like him and he understood that when he got back to 2 forwards from the start it would have unpredictable consequences. But at first it was not such bad cause during game against Inter (Milan won 1-0 16‘ Serginho) Inzaghi played bad and was reasonable changed for Sheva who "has(as newspapers wrote) for 20 minutes done more on the pitch then Inzaghi for 70". Then the game against Real, Sheva/Rui Costa magnificent winning goal. And now there was Milan – Roma. Ancelotti started Only with Sheva and Serginho much deeper, only couple opportunitys in the first half, a bad start of second, Ancelotti let Inzaghi on for Serginho and after 5 minutes and Sheva’s assist Inzaghi made the winning.
Sorry! that I wrote so many and so detailed. It was needed to explain what happened then!
Berlusconni barged in not his business and ordered Ancelotti always play with two strikers not understanding the matter of problem. Milan was supposed to rebuild its style of playing and that was one of the biggest problems for Ancelotti. How to change from shaped and trained formation to the new and perhaps not such effective one. So then began problems in at first so effective performance. Inzaghi scored not such oft, Sheva sometimes, again his injury, recovering but it was absolute obvious that such two great strikers cannot find common language on the field. Mediocre play in Seria A, only cause other was even worse Milan reached Final of CL. Some lucking win over without key man Nedved Juve in penalty round. Next season – Ancelotti was surely aware of situation, he needed a scoring Attacking midfielder to compensate goal deficit from attacking duo. Kaka came and it turned to be the right choice, though Kaka didn’t make amount of assist he supposed to do but and it is the main he started scoring and with Sheva he formed the main attacking power. And what Inzaghi? - 3 month of nothing, then injury, recovery again and again nothing (only 2 goals) very few as for the player who can it only – only it.

So now I will not do any comparisons and conclusions, I believe you are absolute able to do it alone.
[/size][/size]


Hey “brother” Mensch! Not bad! Historical arguments are factual ones!

Something I let me add. especially for Passions

At first, something about Inzaghi and this one striker formation.
As for me I don’t see in the season before last, when Milan won CL., the big EXPLOIT and “achievement” from Inzaghi, his GOD-foot-tough. Ancelotti really played one forward tactic, with maximal filled midfield. You wrote right – Ancelotti understood how he should use Inzaghi – Inzaghi’s speed (acceleration and agility in the box) and goal feeling are his strongest and entirely singles strong sides nothing more extraordinary. So Inzaghi’s purpose was to make so much movements in the box and respond on the defense-killing passes from such creative midfield consist of Pirlo, Seedorf, Rui Costa, Rivaldo/Serginho. No other team even Real at that time possessed such midfield as Milan. So Inzaghi did his usual job – to score goals. But as soon as some team began close all possible ways to make a pass to striker. Inzaghi was nothing. Though it was only couple times not more (Juve-Milan 2-1) cause such midfield is very difficult to stop. Then Sheva recovered from his injury and was back in squad. Then – nothing, there weren’t any teamwork, connection or understandings between Sheva and Pippo, nothing. Cause Pippo is some type of different strikers. Low connection and no understandings between Sheva and Inzaghi was a huge and it is possible to say – the main problem in Milan and not - the weak midfield or something.

There is something else for Passion. Passion please!!!!! - explain if you surely can – why did you call Seedorf – “slowmotion”. I wrote here in the forum already about some physical tests that are used in World football to measure players physical condition. So Passion did you notwithstanding use such tests on Seedorf and measure all his probable conditions to make such conclusions that he is some sort of slow “somewhere”???????????
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Old 23-08-2004, 16:13   #97
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The game was great...no doubt abt that....
Btw, the game was shown and i got to watch it...but the prob is...just as they were having the medal ceremony, it was cut!!! This ALWAYS happens...unless if it's some epl match! Damn!
So i'm just wondering if any of u guys noe where i can watch the medal ceremony..it was not shown in the link given earlier...
So that i can watch our dearest capitano (who played superbly well, as always) lift the cup.
Thanks, i'll aprreciate it!


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Old 23-08-2004, 16:32   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Passion for *9*
As for the rest, I won't waste my time on a percik rehash + the usual opinionated drivel on how bad s.o. is who played a major role in winning the CL + how great s.o. is who has yet to play one match for Milan + the usual 1 vs 2 strikers unsubstantiated bull that disregards the complexity of the issue, esp. the correlation between midfield + attack + other crucial factors, one of which being Sheva's longish out-of-form spell + later on Pippo's injuries (what can you expect from s.o. who is out more than 6 months out of 9 ??)....

Final words: Make your mind up about whether del Piero played as a striker or midfielder, you're contradicting yourself. OK I help you to speed up the process, Juve played with 2 strikers, of course del Piero was + is a striker with some playmaking quality, not a poacher/predator, but a striker or forward nontheless. His more recent attempts at playing in a playmaking role were a sad sight to see btw but that's of no relevance in this context. Anyway, as a striker he later partnered with Trez who btw doesn't really like to play as a lone striker. So.. 2 strikers it was at Juve... glad I could be of assistance in getting your facts right.

Well, well... I've said too much already, my opinion on this + other stuff is out there + I bet ur familiar with it, I'm not gonna repeat myself ad nauseam, as well as I will disregard further percik-type posts.

EOM.
Passion for me it is perhaps only waste of time trying to make with you some sort of discussion or some debates. Cause it is though very pity but you do not know two simple rules of debates. First - to respect others opinion. Second - to (or leastways try to) put arguments after making some statements. All that I have read from you regarding my posts was some insults loaded with a couple “intelligent” words and some without groundings accusation to me of making contradiction to my own sentences. So I want to ask you where I made contradictions. (if it is about Del Piero role than I would like to ask you to read once again and very carefully my post (perhaps you missed something or misunderstood), also to receive this problem about his role (cause it concerns already my knowledge of football history) I offer you to visit such resource as UEFA.com or Juventus official site and to look the formation in which Juve used to play at this time) To finish with this issue I propose you to resolve (when you don’t mind) one test – As Vierri played for Juve he used to play with Del Piero Zidane and one another striker, so that Del Piero played with Zidane in midfield and Vierri with this striker upfront – so tell me who was this second striker (I make you some pointing –it was not Inzaghi) So when you sure that you saw Juve 6-7 years ago you surely will have no problem with the answer.

You shouldn’t and are not bound to read such you call percik-type posts. Though as for me I read it with interest, cause I see there some arguments and reasons and also something to think about. From you I read most of all only doubletalks about how worse and useless is this or another player and what the stupid other forums member are. Naturally all that writtings are not deficient in attempts on extraordinary literality and exceptionality.

And the last. I haven’t still read any arguments and reasons from you why my opinion on Inzaghi and other issues is not correct. Please when you really something know (I mean statistics, historical facts etc.) then just write it I would with great pleasure read it and on some interesting thing express my own opinion.
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Old 23-08-2004, 16:53   #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojangles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Passion for *9*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mensch
Ye, Passion I understand you, surely it is not a great pleasure to hear not the exciting things about people you like, especially when it is (perhaps) more than only favorite player.
OK I bite... No, I don't love him, if that's what you try to say using 10000 redundant words. Your insinuations are getting really old, 'Edgar' (or is it Andriy ?)... (snipped)
Germa...and you speak better english than I do... Whats the world coming to
Oh, I see a couple of mistakes just glancing over the text... but I tried And to answer your question: Ideally a united one I'd say but I'm not delusional or idealistic enough to believe..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mensch
Cause it is though very pity but you do not know two simple rules of debates. First - to respect others opinion. Second - to (or leastways try to) put arguments after making some statements.
Go lecture your... ahem... 'brother'. I hope you know how to operate the Search function in order to dig out impressive evidence of his lack of respect + netiquette + absence of the most basic principles of debate.

Furthermore... @ Percik/Mensch:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Passion for *9*
My opinion on this + other stuff is out there + I bet ur familiar with it, I'm not gonna repeat myself ad nauseam, as well as I will disregard further percik-type posts.

EOM..
And EOM means 'end of message', in case you're wondering.

Have a good life or idi na khuy... whatever... Just don't hope for a further response, it won't happen.


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Old 23-08-2004, 17:27   #100
savicevic10
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No offence Passion, but you don't half get skinned sometimes in arguments

You should really do some research if you're going to stick to this opinion of your so strongly. It only takes an acmilan7 or a Mensch and you're on the floor.

Go easy on Crespo, your suggested 25 million Drogba has hardly set the world alight has he?

He will in time (maybe) and so will Crespo.

My God, we would have Lazio debts if you were in charge, my girl

And this Chelsea "dumping" players on us is nonsense. It's Chelsea who look the fools: spending massive amounts of money and then offloading them for free (well they still part of their wages ) to rivals, when they don't perform immediately. It's the stuff of Championship manager.

Milan have took a great player (who has stagnated in terms of what he can do) for free, that Ancelotti knows and believes under his coaching can make great again (like Seedorf, like Pirlo). Ancelotti is doing what he is paid to do: to coach, work with the player, to make better. If it pays off and previous experience hints there is a good chance, we'll be laughing our way to further success.

It's a more admirable, economic and smarter characteristic than buying the latest craze and hoping for the best. Fuck it, I could do that. Give me a cheque book and some luck and I'd be the best "coach" in the world.

Wise up!


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