Lionel Messi Thread

Edi · Apr 7, 2010

madtherchot said:
The power of drugs

You and your Barca hate :tongue:

A_Wild_Homosexual · Apr 7, 2010

All the world/teams/coaches/fans/media doesnt know that Messi is what he is coz of drugs & some retards in here that follow football via text + sit behind their PC know that fact ROFL
Wenger who is the biggest whiner didnt hide the fact that Messi is , by far , the best player & he didnt mention anything about no drugs.
I mean its ok to be a ****** , just dont parade it.

GreatKalu · Apr 7, 2010

... says he who knoweth all that be reterdeth, for he defineth thee ****** :proud:

Thanks for your (in)valuable contribution ... now kindly fuck off to Bartha forums, if you aren't already a member :cool:

*wank* *wank*

Kuzimoto · Apr 7, 2010

http://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/ch...gue-messi-4-1-arsenal-the-greatest-player-you

this article is just fantastic!

naive_harry · Apr 7, 2010

all hail messi, he has been spectacular this season, on his way to another swoop for all the awards,ballan d'or, fifa world's best player. you name it, he will get it. amazing, if only we could find such a youth talent in our primavera...

andyhello23 · Apr 7, 2010

Kuzimoto said:
http://www.goal.com/en/news/1716/ch...gue-messi-4-1-arsenal-the-greatest-player-you

this article is just fantastic!

The problem with that article is that maradona has horrendous tackles to put up with, while todays players do not get tackled and are allowed to run with the ball.

The article is half right, and i would say he is contradicting himself as he too is looking at something with rose tinted fantasy too.

Its all ifs and buts, but we all know messi is class and the best at the mo.

For me last years barce where better, but its along way to go yet.

A_Wild_Homosexual · Apr 7, 2010

andyhello23 said:
The problem with that article is that maradona has horrendous tackles to put up with, while todays players do not get tackled and are allowed to run with the ball.

Defenders when Maradona used to play maybe were harsh but the defense back then is much weaker than it is now.
The game is evolving & spaces r much tighter every day.
Pele used to take the ball + reach the box & defenders used to back run watching him rather than trying to close him down.
GKs also evolved since then.

Messi @ 22 years old > any player in football history.
True Ronaldo @ 20 used to b great & maybe Pele won the world cup @ 17 but still it doesnt equal what Messi has achieved already.
If he is able to win CL + league title then already he is up there with em with 10 years to bypass all of em.
Come to think about it players like Iniesta or Xavi winning titles with Barca this season then following it up with a world cup title then they r up there with Maradona , Zidane + maybe better.

Wet Ones · Apr 7, 2010

Wild said:
Defenders when Maradona used to play maybe were harsh but the defense back then is much weaker than it is now.
The game is evolving & spaces r much tighter every day.
Pele used to take the ball + reach the box & defenders used to back run watching him rather than trying to close him down.
GKs also evolved since then.

Have to disagree here.

Defenders used to back run? Don't many of them do that nowadays as well? Have a look at most of Messi's goals in La Liga.

And Maradona faced some of the greatest defenders in the history of the game. Back then the game was filled with world class defenders. How many truly world class defenders, can you think of, playing the game today?

Wild said:
Messi @ 22 years old > any player in football history.
True Ronaldo @ 20 used to b great & maybe Pele won the world cup @ 17 but still it doesnt equal what Messi has achieved already.
If he is able to win CL + league title then already he is up there with em with 10 years to bypass all of em.
Come to think about it players like Iniesta or Xavi winning titles with Barca this season then following it up with a world cup title then they r up there with Maradona , Zidane + maybe better.

Ronaldo was 19 @ Barca. What he did in his one season there (in terms of performance), Messi can only dream of. How is Messi, @ 22, better than any footballer in history when he's only proven himself in one league and a competition of chance? If not for the Chelsea debacle last year this would be his second attempt at winning the UCL. Even in 2006 he wasn't the star of the team. Ronaldo proved himself in Brazil. Then went to Holland and proved himself there. Then went to the toughest league in the world and proved himself there. Then went to the World Cup and proved himself there till he was drugged (Conspiracy theory I know but can't be anything else to be honset). Ronaldo, while at his peak, didn't even get the chance to play the UCL with Barca. And his first (and best) season with Inter they were in the Uefa Cup which he helped them win.

Messi has NOTHING on Ronaldo and until he wins the World Cup, a comparison to Maradona would be insulting.

A_Wild_Homosexual · Apr 7, 2010

Wet Ones said:
Have to disagree here.

Defenders used to back run? Don't many of them do that nowadays as well? Have a look at most of Messi's goals in La Liga.

And Maradona faced some of the greatest defenders in the history of the game. Back then the game was filled with world class defenders. How many truly world class defenders, can you think of, playing the game today?

Ronaldo was 19 @ Barca. What he did in his one season there (in terms of performance), Messi can only dream of. How is Messi, @ 22, better than any footballer in history when he's only proven himself in one league and a competition of chance? If not for the Chelsea debacle last year this would be his second attempt at winning the UCL. Even in 2006 he wasn't the star of the team. Ronaldo proved himself in Brazil. Then went to Holland and proved himself there. Then went to the toughest league in the world and proved himself there. Then went to the World Cup and proved himself there till he was drugged (Conspiracy theory I know but can't be anything else to be honset). Ronaldo, while at his peak, didn't even get the chance to play the UCL with Barca. And his first (and best) season with Inter they were in the Uefa Cup which he helped them win.

Messi has NOTHING on Ronaldo and until he wins the World Cup, a comparison to Maradona would be insulting.

The back track was about Pele , defenders + GKs used to be a joke minus couple of GKs.
About Maradona the defense tactic was much less compact than now & spaces since then is much narrower.
The key word about Messi is achievement.
@ age of 22 none of the big names has win more than him.
Maradona without his hand of god wouldnt have won the WC so lets not get into the "what if" argument.
Am a big fan of Ronaldo & Maradona & I do think Messi or CR need to do more to reach their status but @ the age of 22 he has done much more than both combined.
Messi is proving himself in both league + CL & in CL there is the best players in all leagues.

Ashish · Apr 7, 2010

baresi maldini galli tassoti

defense is not wc :eek:

what are you talking about wild
maradonna will forever be the best footballer, these days defenders are jokers, not one i not one of them is at their peak, something close to wc is silva rest are either acting tough or too old

Senatore_M84 · Apr 7, 2010

Wild said:
The back track was about Pele , defenders + GKs used to be a joke minus couple of GKs.
About Maradona the defense tactic was much less compact than now & spaces since then is much narrower.
The key word about Messi is achievement.
@ age of 22 none of the big names has win more than him.
Maradona without his hand of god wouldnt have won the WC so lets not get into the "what if" argument.
Am a big fan of Ronaldo & Maradona & I do think Messi or CR need to do more to reach their status but @ the age of 22 he has done much more than both combined.
Messi is proving himself in both league + CL & in CL there is the best players in all leagues.

It's near impossible to compare Maradonna pre-22 to Messi because Maradonna played in South america. However at that period of time, one could easily argue, south america>>>> Europe. He was dominating n Argentina when he was a teen, being leading scorer in argentine league from age 18-22 when he moved to Barca. He basically ran the league for 3 to 4 years before his 22nd birthday till he moved.

He won south american player of year 1979 and had unheard of (for an argentine) respect in Brazil.

As for your WC 'hand of god' point. He did score a nice little goal vs. england as well, and who knows what would have happened in extra time. But my money is on Maradonna.

As for Messi's accomplishments @22 v. Ronaldo and Maradonna. Neither the latter two had the team Messi does. I'm sorry, saying messi 'won the ucl' is like me saying pirlo is a 2 time ucl champion. What he's an important player on the squad?!? But even you admit. Barca's team was LED (and most important players) Xavi and Iniesta. You even said Xavi deserved Balon d'or over messi (And i'd agree). And that doesn't get into fact he is flanked by Dani Alves and had Henry and Eto'o.

I'm not saying Messi is bad by any means but I also won't say he's come close to those 2 by there 22nd birthday either. Particularly a Ronaldo who put one of the more dominating performances @ 21 in a world cup i've ever seen and a Balon D'or at 20.

crazy4milan · Apr 7, 2010

Wet Ones said:
And Maradona faced some of the greatest defenders in the history of the game. Back then the game was filled with world class defenders. How many truly world class defenders, can you think of, playing the game today?

Slightly off topic, but I had this conversation with someone yesterday, for example, today many people believe John Terry is WC and perhaps the best defender out there, 10 years ago he wouldn't have been even close to be one. There's actually a draught of WC defenders right now, huge draught, and on top of that most of them lack of the grit that defenders had 10-20 years ago (in fact, the one place where I still see that grit is in South America, where for example Messi has had trouble even passing Bolivia's defenders).

andyhello23 · Apr 7, 2010

For people talking about tackling and defending maradona had to put up with watch if you can italy vs argies in 1982 wc, see what that geezer did to maradona.

That person would be sent of in first 5 mins today, what he did to maradona that day.

GreatKalu · Apr 7, 2010

crazy4milan said:
Slightly off topic, but I had this conversation with someone yesterday, for example, today many people believe John Terry is WC and perhaps the best defender out there, 10 years ago he wouldn't have been even close to be one. There's actually a draught of WC defenders right now, huge draught, and on top of that most of them lack of the grit that defenders had 10-20 years ago (in fact, the one place where I still see that grit is in South America, where for example Messi has had trouble even passing Bolivia's defenders).

I agree with this. Who would have expected someone like Silva to come in and walk into Milan's starting XI? No disrespect to him, but back in the day, you'd never see that happen.

Italy has traditional produced the best defenders throughout the years, and now, the fact that all of Milan, Inter and Roma (Serie A's top clubs) have Brazilian CBs is testament to the decline in the world's best producer of CBs. In fact, the only nation that has improved in CBs in Brazil, with all of Lucio, Juan, Silva, Alex, Liusao, etc. However, they are now lacking at the other end of the field with a WC striker.

And its not only Italy ... countries like Holland, France, Germany don't have top CBs.

BTW, nice assist by Silvertri for Messi's goal ... LOL

(just saw the highlights). And I don't think I've ever seen Sagna at CB before :rolleyes:

dev1L · Apr 7, 2010

madtherchot said:
BTW, nice assist by Silvertri for Messi's goal ... LOL (just saw the highlights)

he hit that ball so hard, almost like he was mad or something..i wonder how many times would he score that kind of goal from 5 attempts...it's just crazy how quick arsenal 'let' them to come back..stupid potato head

GreatKalu · Apr 7, 2010

Haha ... nice one dev1L. We're on the same page on this for a change :tongue:

A_Wild_Homosexual · Apr 7, 2010

Milano84 said:
It's near impossible to compare Maradonna pre-22 to Messi because Maradonna played in South america.

I dont care about the circumstances.
@ age of 22 no player in the world achieved more than Messi.

Milano84 said:
south america>>>> Europe.

Really ?
Where did u come up with such assumption ?

Milano84 said:
He was dominating n Argentina when he was a teen, being leading scorer in argentine league from age 18-22

Achieving what ?
Messi is doing that in Spain + Europe.

Milano84 said:
he moved to Barca. He basically ran the league for 3 to 4 years before his 22nd birthday

Again really ?
And what did he achieve for Barca ?

Milano84 said:
As for your WC 'hand of god' point. He did score a nice little goal vs. england as well, and who knows what would have happened in extra time. But my money is on Maradonna.

I mentioned that only to answer the "if" theory.
If ppl gonna bring the "if" Barca didnt beat Chelsea who were better then.....
I answer "if" Maradona didnt score with his hand then......

Milano84 said:
As for Messi's accomplishments @22 v. Ronaldo and Maradonna. Neither the latter two had the team Messi does. I'm sorry, saying messi 'won the ucl' is like me saying pirlo is a 2 time ucl champion. What he's an important player on the squad?!? But even you admit. Barca's team was LED (and most important players) Xavi and Iniesta. You even said Xavi deserved Balon d'or over messi (And i'd agree). And that doesn't get into fact he is flanked by Dani Alves and had Henry and Eto'o.

I'm not saying Messi is bad by any means but I also won't say he's come close to those 2 by there 22nd birthday either. Particularly a Ronaldo who put one of the more dominating performances @ 21 in a world cup i've ever seen and a Balon D'or at 20.

Performance ?
Its an opinion.
Achievements is a fact.
And its why I used the word achievement & Messi's > Ronaldo + Maradona.
I didnt say Messi > Ronaldo or Maradona.
Having the best team or not , it doesnt change the fact.

About Xavi & Inie , yeah I still say it.
If they manage to win the world cup then both r among the best players in the world + for sure achieved more than Maradona.

OneUnited · Apr 7, 2010

dev1L said:
he hit that ball so hard, almost like he was mad or something..i wonder how many times would he score that kind of goal from 5 attempts...it's just crazy how quick arsenal 'let' them to come back..stupid potato head

Messi's dismantling of Arsenal had me reminiscing about Ronaldo's demolition of United. Guess who was supposed to keep tabs on Ronaldo way back then. Yep...

manutd fan · Apr 7, 2010

Messi has had 2 seaosns where he's become the best in the world. Still to early to compare him with Maradona.

Also it's easier for him now that was was for Maradona. These days forwards get a lot of protection, but the further you go back, the more brutal the fouls are.

A_Wild_Homosexual · Apr 7, 2010

No one is saying he is better than maradona but rather saying that @ age of 22 he "achieved" more than him.

And Maradona had 1 great world cup & 1 campain with Napoli.
Hmmmmmmmmmm , that must have lasted for 15 years.

drucurl · Apr 8, 2010

Wild I can't believe you're buying into the Bartha hype. You of all ppl man you're waaay to smart for that shit.

Ronaldo:
TOTALLY UNSTOPPABLE pre-injury. Scored against everybody. Raped Maldini even Paolo admitted that Ronaldo and Maradonna were the best. Messi got by very very much easier than Ronaldo. Barca paid all his meds, bought him some enzyte :tongue:

and he perfected his trade with some of the best in the world....not to mention learning a trick or two from a payer VASTLY superior in Ronaldinho. Ronaldo actually gave Inter European success which is a miracle in itself. Plus Ronaldo completely reinvented himself as a player and still enjoyed successes that many world class players didn't

Maradonna:
Messi scored his wonder goal vs some shit la liga (known for being suspect defensively). Maradonna scored his wonder goal to win Argentina a World cup. Maradonna could rightfully claim half of Argentina's World Cup success. Messi couldn't lead Argentina past Dunga's Ronaldo-less Ronaldinho-less and Kaka-less Brazil for the Copa Americana.

Pele:
Invented many moves that players use today. Was a prodigy that the world may never see again. Back then defenses weren't as intelligently designed but they made up for it in brutality and violence. Racism was more of an issue back then and it was harder for black players to get fouls on them called. Plus the ball was made of leather and would weigh a ton when wet. Pele scored over a thousand (disputed) goals. However of the three I rate Pele' third because of the star teams he had.

To be honest and I know nonbody will agree with me here I think Kaka' is better. Suer he's shit now...but Kaka' led a shit milan to a Champions League. Kaka also raped Messi when they played eachother.

I guess all Messi has to do is go destroy everything in his path in the World Cup and make me look like a complete n00b.

But when you're playing with

---------Valdez--------
Alves-Puyol-Milito-Abidal
------Toure-Xavi-------
-Messi----Iniesta----Henry-
I'mdefinitelyahomobitch

It's pretty hard to be shit. If you have talent, it's hard to not look as divine as he does. BUT take a player out of such a perfect blend of creativity, work ethic, speed technique, youth, experience and the $$ to maintain it- like Eto'o and it's then you see to notice the scratches on the diamond :cool:

drucurl · Apr 8, 2010

Wet Ones said:
Have to disagree here.

Defenders used to back run? Don't many of them do that nowadays as well? Have a look at most of Messi's goals in La Liga.

And Maradona faced some of the greatest defenders in the history of the game. Back then the game was filled with world class defenders. How many truly world class defenders, can you think of, playing the game today?

Ronaldo was 19 @ Barca. What he did in his one season there (in terms of performance), Messi can only dream of. How is Messi, @ 22, better than any footballer in history when he's only proven himself in one league and a competition of chance? If not for the Chelsea debacle last year this would be his second attempt at winning the UCL. Even in 2006 he wasn't the star of the team. Ronaldo proved himself in Brazil. Then went to Holland and proved himself there. Then went to the toughest league in the world and proved himself there. Then went to the World Cup and proved himself there till he was drugged (Conspiracy theory I know but can't be anything else to be honset). Ronaldo, while at his peak, didn't even get the chance to play the UCL with Barca. And his first (and best) season with Inter they were in the Uefa Cup which he helped them win.

Messi has NOTHING on Ronaldo and until he wins the World Cup, a comparison to Maradona would be insulting.

Calum1903 · Apr 8, 2010

When he's over 50% fit, Gianluigi Buffon is the best footballer in the world.

Also, the post by Wet Ones that Dru just quoted is brilliant.

drucurl · Apr 8, 2010

OneUnited said:
Messi's dismantling of Arsenal had me reminiscing about Ronaldo's demolition of United. Guess who was supposed to keep tabs on Ronaldo way back then. Yep...

So now you're admitting Fergie is a moron :proud:

I mean not even Domenech would put Silvestre to mark Ron :cool:

lighthearted post please no page long "manure is the greatest ever rebuttals"

adriancg · Apr 8, 2010

Calum1903 said:
When he's over 50% fit, Gianluigi Buffon is the best footballer in the world.

Also, the post by Wet Ones that Dru just quoted is brilliant.

Now that's a very good point, lol.

Wet Ones · Apr 8, 2010

Wild said:
@ age of 22 no player in the world achieved more than Messi.

Cruzeiro

Minas Gerais State League: 1994
Brazil Cup: 1993

PSV Eindhoven

KNVB Cup: 1996

Barcelona

Internazionale

UEFA Cup: 1998

National team

FIFA World Cup: 1994, runner-up 1998
Copa América: 1997, runner-up 1995
FIFA Confederations Cup: 1997
1996 Summer Olympics: Bronze medal

Individual

Supercopa Libertadores Top Scorer: 1993-94
Campeonato Mineiro Top Scorer: 1993-94
Campeonato Mineiro Team of The Year: 1994
Eredivisie Top Scorer: 1994-95
La Liga Top Scorer: 1996-97
European Golden Boot: 1996-97
Don Balón Award La Liga Foreign Player of the Year: 1996-97
Copa América Final Most Valuable Player: 1997
Copa América Most Valuable Player: 1997
Confederations Cup All-Star Team: 1997
Cup Winners Cup Final Most Valuable Player: 1997
Cup Winners Cup Top Goal Scorer: 1996-1997
IFFHS World's Top Goal Scorer of the Year: 1997
UEFA Most Valuable Player: 1997-98
Serie A Footballer of the Year: 1997-98
Serie A Foreign Footballer of the Year: 1997-98
UEFA Best Forward: 1997-98
Bravo Award : 1995, 1997, 1998
FIFA World Cup Golden Ball: 1998
UEFA Cup Final Most Valuable Player: 1998
Copa América All-Star Team: 1997
FIFA World Player of the Year: 1996, 1997
Ballon D'or: 1997
World Soccer Magazine World Player of The Year: 1996,1997
Onze d'Or: 1997
FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 1998
La Liga South American Player of the Year: 1996-97
Serie A Player of the Decade: 1997-2007
FIFA World Cup All-Time Scoring Leader

All this while being in teams that didn't have half as good players as Messi's Barca has/had.

Messi who?

Milanista · Apr 8, 2010

Scored 4 goals and made the headlines !!

This is what i call -

messi is over-rated !!!

Sasha · Apr 8, 2010

Wet Ones said:
National team

FIFA World Cup: 1994, runner-up 1998http://forum.acmilan-online.com/wiki/Copa_América http://forum.acmilan-online.com/wiki/FIFA_Confederations_Cup http://forum.acmilan-online.com/wiki/Serie_A_Foreign_Footballer_of_the_Year http://forum.acmilan-online.com/wiki/Bravo_Award http://forum.acmilan-online.com/wiki/FIFA_World_Cup

LOL first off you forgot 2002 (or do even hardcore Brazil fans admit that was a farce/doesn't count?) and saying he won the 1994 wc is like saying Baresi won it in 1982.

manutd fan · Apr 8, 2010

The the 'lack' of great defenders topic, I guess it's because these days defending isn't seen as such an art as it used to be. Most kids growing up want to be the next Ronaldinho, not the next Maldini.

Senatore_M84 · Apr 8, 2010

MilanoMichael said:
[/LIST]
LOL first off you forgot 2002 (or do even hardcore Brazil fans admit that was a farce/doesn't count?) and saying he won the 1994 wc is like saying Baresi won it in 1982.

he was listing accomplishments by age of 22

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