Gennaro Gattuso Thread

Congo Powers · Feb 21, 2019

voom said:

necromancer · Feb 22, 2019

http://www.espn.com/soccer/italian-...in-position-to-return-to-the-champions-league

Horncastle's take on our journey, with this wonderfully accurate line:

Scepticism endures though and the 41-year-old is never more than one bad result or lacklustre performance away from the usual grumbles about whether Milan are really sure they can't do better. Put it down to the view of Gattuso as all passion and no philosophy, never mind that this viewpoint painfully ignores that the restoration of identity, standards and spirit is exactly what's required at Milanello these days over some empty tactical gimmickry with its own hashtag and social media cult.

Neruda · Feb 23, 2019

Thank you mister.. <3

It ll be interesting to see if he ll give Samu a deserved start vs Lazio

Buske · Feb 23, 2019

And again, grande mister...His work is there for everyone to see

Ronin · Feb 23, 2019

Is this champagne grintics?

truant · Feb 23, 2019

Ronin said:
Is this champagne grintics?

I believe the best is yet to come bro.

sheva · Feb 23, 2019

over some empty tactical gimmickry with its own hashtag and social media cult.

does ESPN lurk in RnB? :lol:

necromancer · Feb 23, 2019

It’s well known that James Horncastle can’t stand our Massaro & co.

Alo88 · Feb 23, 2019

necromancer said:
http://www.espn.com/soccer/italian-...in-position-to-return-to-the-champions-league

Horncastle's take on our journey, with this wonderfully accurate line:

#wengerout or who is he talking about?

necromancer · Feb 23, 2019

#sarriball of course.

And a general comment which I’ve often repeated here as well. Tactical systems are overrated in modern football.

Mexes5 · Feb 23, 2019

Most of it is man management these days & Gattuso seems excellent at it, looks like he's created a great environment, which is nice to see.

Alo88 · Feb 23, 2019

necromancer said:
#sarriball of course.

And a general comment which I’ve often repeated here as well. Tactical systems are overrated in modern football.

What exactely do you mean by tactical system?

I mean.. Look at Bologna. Pippo is a coach that I know for not having tactical systems - or a „signature“, a game plan to say so - but since they have Sinisa they are playing very good and giving headaches to all opponents since then.

Empoli too changed his gameplan to the better since they appointed the new coach (sitting deeper and launching fast conters. If their players yesterday didn‘t executed those counters so miserably they could have put us under more pressure).

I mean we all know it‘s not only about tactical systems. But it‘s not man management neither. A coach has to be so much. Sarri IMO has lost the lockerroom weeks ago, and Chelsea is known for kind a toxic lockerroom. His tactics doesn‘t help him when he‘s not backed by his players. Rino also always says how he and his stuff make „suggestions“ to the player but in the end it‘s on them accepting and believing in them.

A motivated team will fail without tactics (look at our december run where we looked like our players didn‘t know what to do with a ball) but in the same time all the tactics in the world doesn‘t help you as a coach when you‘re not backed by your players.

necromancer · Feb 23, 2019

Alo88 said:
What exactely do you mean by tactical system?

I mean.. Look at Bologna. Pippo is a coach that I know for not having tactical systems - or a „signature“, a game plan to say so - but since they have Sinisa they are playing very good and giving headaches to all opponents since then.

Empoli too changed his gameplan to the better since they appointed the new coach (sitting deeper and launching fast conters. If their players yesterday didn‘t executed those counters so miserably they could have put us under more pressure).

I mean we all know it‘s not only about tactical systems. But it‘s not man management neither. A coach has to be so much. Sarri IMO has lost the lockerroom weeks ago, and Chelsea is known for kind a toxic lockerroom. His tactics doesn‘t help him when he‘s not backed by his players. Rino also always says how he and his stuff make „suggestions“ to the player but in the end it‘s on them accepting and believing in them.

A motivated team will fail without tactics (look at our december run where we looked like our players didn‘t know what to do with a ball) but in the same time all the tactics in the world doesn‘t help you as a coach when you‘re not backed by your players.

What I've been saying here for a while when posters get obsessed about tactics is that tactics are always secondary to knowing how to manage a squad and how to get your players in the right conditions to play their natural game.

Any manager coaching in a high level league has a tactical system. Gattuso has a clear tactical system. When he becomes successful, some guy will make a youtube video about it and then it will become branded. Until then, many people can't see it and will keep saying he doesn't have any tactics. You, other posters, I have all discussed various aspects of his tactics in various threads in this forum.

So there's no question of tactics not being there at all. Beppe Iachini, Di Carlo, Nicola.. they all have tactical systems.

But it is always secondary to knowing how to manage a squad. Sarri is proving to be the classic example. He does not know how to manage diverse squads. He has a rigid, fixed way of playing football (his tactical system) and he tries to make some 14-15 players play that way - while ignoring the rest and not considering alternate styles that might suit his squad. He's open about it and clubs who hire him should know that that's what they are buying into.

Diversion: Mario Rui - great case in point of Sarri's lack of squad management. Sarri ignored him thoroughly at Napoli until Ghoulam got injured. De Laurentiis called him out on it (along with Rog and someone else I can't remember), and now see how Ancelotti managed to make Rui so good? While also keeping Ghoulam happy.

In modern football, such a tactician will not be successful if he cannot manage a squad and grow his players. For me it's clear - man management first, tactics second.

You don't need to specify that tactics are needed.. like I said, any manager worth his salt in a high level league, has a tactical system and a team of coaches who do obsess about it. It is just overstated these days because of the profusion of online analysts who create videos and long blog posts about it. None of this is new.

To me, the gold standard in modern football management remains Ancelotti and he's the perfect example of someone who knows that in order to win trophies, managing a squad is more important than tactical systems. He has used various tactical systems over the course of his career, each suited to whichever squad he's handling at that time. Players come first, tactics come later. We aren't living in Sacchi's era anymore. And all indications so far are that Gattuso learned as much as he could from Ancelotti. If he continues along this path, we will win trophies with Gattuso.

brk · Feb 23, 2019

necromancer said:
What I've been saying here for a while when posters get obsessed about tactics is that tactics are always secondary to knowing how to manage a squad and how to get your players in the right conditions to play their natural game.

Any manager coaching in a high level league has a tactical system. Gattuso has a clear tactical system. When he becomes successful, some guy will make a youtube video about it and then it will become branded. Until then, many people can't see it and will keep saying he doesn't have any tactics. You, other posters, I have all discussed various aspects of his tactics in various threads in this forum.

So there's no question of tactics not being there at all. Beppe Iachini, Di Carlo, Nicola.. they all have tactical systems.

But it is always secondary to knowing how to manage a squad. Sarri is proving to be the classic example. He does not know how to manage diverse squads. He has a rigid, fixed way of playing football (his tactical system) and he tries to make some 14-15 players play that way - while ignoring the rest and not considering alternate styles that might suit his squad. He's open about it and clubs who hire him should know that that's what they are buying into.

In modern football, such a tactician will not be successful if he cannot manage a squad and grow his players. For me it's clear - man management first, tactics second.

You don't need to specify that tactics are needed.. like I said, any manager worth his salt in a high level league, has a tactical system and a team of coaches who do obsess about it. It is just overstated these days because of the profusion of online analysts who create videos and long blog posts about it. None of this is new.

Gattuso proving to be a master at man management. Losing count to how many players said he's a 'father figure' to them.

Also he's playing a fairly progressive playing out from the back possession-first system, and his defending has been solid in a rigid 4141 block. People were going crazy in the beginning seeing how crap we were at playing out from the back, it seemed totally wrong and we lost a LOT of possession in extremely dangerous areas.

Now? The ball flows like water at the back. Nobody gets anxious. It's second nature. Very confident coaching and persistence knowing his path and what he wants his team to do and finally getting them to that point.

necromancer · Feb 23, 2019

brk said:
Gattuso proving to be a master at man management. Losing count to how many players said he's a 'father figure' to them.

Also he's playing a fairly progressive playing out from the back possession-first system, and his defending has been solid in a rigid 4141 block. People were going crazy in the beginning seeing how crap we were at playing out from the back, it seemed totally wrong and we lost a LOT of possession in extremely dangerous areas.

Now? The ball flows like water at the back. Nobody gets anxious. It's second nature. Very confident coaching and persistence knowing his path and what he wants his team to do and finally getting them to that point.

Yup, a lot of the current fluidity at the back couldn't have come without that learning curve in the first few months. We should also be thankful that we have a wise management who thought long-term and knew the mistakes were natural enough when a squad learns.

Alo88 · Feb 23, 2019

necromancer said:
What I've been saying here for a while when posters get obsessed about tactics is that tactics are always secondary to knowing how to manage a squad and how to get your players in the right conditions to play their natural game.

[...]

Fair enough, also the rest of your post

I think we're basically on the same page. One thing alone won't bring you anywhere. While you're saying man management outweighs tactics I think both aspects of how to coach a team are equally important, especially if you want to win trophies.

Tactics (let's call it that way to keep it simple). In recent weeks I think that's where Gattuso improved the most. During December (and before) a lot of times I didn't agree with his line-ups and even more with the substitutions during the game, showing lack of understanding how the game was going and what the game needed to gring out more points. But he's a young coach, and he's learning very fast. Seeing how fluidly we are playing now compared to December... It's like night and day. Sure, Paqueta and Piatek completed the puzzle, but IMO it's also Gattuso out smarting teams like Napoli, Atalanta or even yesterday Empoli in the 2nd half.

And last but not least: in a well organized team it's way easier to ease in new players. Abate fitting so well as a CB can't be a hazard IMO. Or Paqueta and Piatek stepping in like they played here since years. Or Conti yesterday. That all speaks for a very well defined organization of the team.

Again, all that isn't possible if you don't have the man management of Ancelotti or - yeah why not - Gattuso. That's why to me man management and tactics (or organisation if you want so) are the two different parts of the SAME coin. One doesn't outweigh the other, they are both equally important

Alo88 · Feb 23, 2019

brk said:
Gattuso proving to be a master at man management. Losing count to how many players said he's a 'father figure' to them.

Also he's playing a fairly progressive playing out from the back possession-first system, and his defending has been solid in a rigid 4141 block. People were going crazy in the beginning seeing how crap we were at playing out from the back, it seemed totally wrong and we lost a LOT of possession in extremely dangerous areas.

Now? The ball flows like water at the back. Nobody gets anxious. It's second nature. Very confident coaching and persistence knowing his path and what he wants his team to do and finally getting them to that point.

True that. God I hated when we played out from behind. But we improved a lot especially by doing it right. I remember lot of passes right around or even through our box to players already under the opponents pressure

. Now no more. We improved a lot.

Ronin · Feb 23, 2019

good posts :thumbsup:

scarecrows · Feb 23, 2019

brk said:
Also he's playing a fairly progressive playing out from the back possession-first system, and his defending has been solid in a rigid 4141 block. People were going crazy in the beginning seeing how crap we were at playing out from the back, it seemed totally wrong and we lost a LOT of possession in extremely dangerous areas.

Now? The ball flows like water at the back. Nobody gets anxious. It's second nature. Very confident coaching and persistence knowing his path and what he wants his team to do and finally getting them to that point.

that has been a huge improvement

but i always get tachycardia whenever Donna goes for the central pass to bakayoko

Thenebra · Feb 23, 2019

scarecrows said:
that has been a huge improvement

but i always get tachycardia whenever Donna goes for the central pass to bakayoko

Haha me too!

Kojak · Feb 24, 2019

Good win but a typical Gattuso team performance. One shit half followed by a great one. Why can't he get the team playing well from the get go instead of constantly resorting to half time team talks? Until he overcomes this obstacle he can't be considered a great Manager. You could argue it'll improve once we upgrade the squad as there's still some average players in the team but how come he gets those same players playing well in the second half? That's down to him as a Manager.

One thing I will give him credit for is his ability to consistently grind out results.

Neruda · Feb 24, 2019

well ... at least Kojaks starting to see the light

WILL2K · Feb 24, 2019

If we end up 3rd or even 4th, he should be the front runner for Serie A Coach of the Year award.

Kojak · Feb 24, 2019

Neruda said:
well ... at least Kojaks starting to see the light

Not really...I’ve always respected him for getting results just not his style of play. We constantly get outplayed by shit teams for long periods of every game and that hasn’t changed. Also, he’s got a top 4 squad at his disposal and we spent the most in January so he’s achieving expectations not surpassing them. Therefore, he’s not as great or shit a coach as some proclaim but merely a promising one.

However, if he does qualify for CL whilst missing 2 proper starting wingers then I’d like him to continue. He would’ve earned it. Also, Jardim’s back at Monaco, Conte doesn’t do well with youngsters and Sarri’s out of form so there’s less options.

Alo88 · Feb 24, 2019

Kojak said:
Not really...I’ve always respected him for getting results just not his style of play. We constantly get outplayed by shit teams for long periods of every game and that hasn’t changed. Also, he’s got a top 4 squad at his disposal and we spent the most in January so he’s achieving expectations not surpassing them. Therefore, he’s not as great or shit a coach as some proclaim but merely a promising one.

However, if he does qualify for CL whilst missing 2 proper starting wingers then I’d like him to continue. He would’ve earned it. Also, Jardim’s back at Monaco, Conte doesn’t do well with youngsters and Sarri’s out of form so there’s less options.

Tbf, with all that injuries, especially Jack and Biglia out and with Baka in Chelsea mode, a Top 4 place by January seemed like a long distant dream. Add to that Hakan being a shadow of himself because of his private problems and Higuain deciding to be a toxic negative lad who wasted more energy in lamenting instead of working for his team – given how poor he's doing now under his favorite coach Sarri we know for a fact that it wasn't down to Milan, let alone Gattuso who defended him whenever he could – Gattuso did a miracle.

I see where you're coming from when you talk about our poor playing style. That is something I blamed him too especially during December and some parts of January. But with Paqueta and Piatek we seemed transformed. With Conti and Biglia returning too and Castillejo maybe finally finding the right feed we can start talking about Top 4 squad on paper. And in fact, many experts describe Milan as the team who atm plays the best football in the league.

... BTW something that was said about us already at the beginning of our season when Hakan and Suso were in form and Biglia and Jack not injured. This makes me believe that Gattuso, when given the right players, actually is a very capabable coach.

Qaas · Feb 24, 2019

Qaas said:
Please stop subbing off piatek

Qaas said:
Gattuso.... are you listening?

Piontek would have scored at least 20 goals by now if gattuso didn’t sub him out in the last two matches.. why does he keep subbing him out when there are more than 20mins left.. stop it gattuso, i have had enough

He will have a goal draught at some point. Would be nice to let him score as much as possible before that.

Kojak · Feb 24, 2019

Alo88 said:
Tbf, with all that injuries, especially Jack and Biglia out and with Baka in Chelsea mode, a Top 4 place by January seemed like a long distant dream. Add to that Hakan being a shadow of himself because of his private problems and Higuain deciding to be a toxic negative lad who wasted more energy in lamenting instead of working for his team – given how poor he's doing now under his favorite coach Sarri we know for a fact that it wasn't down to Milan, let alone Gattuso who defended him whenever he could – Gattuso did a miracle.

I see where you're coming from when you talk about our poor playing style. That is something I blamed him too especially during December and some parts of January. But with Paqueta and Piatek we seemed transformed. With Conti and Biglia returning too and Castillejo maybe finally finding the right feed we can start talking about Top 4 squad on paper. And in fact, many experts describe Milan as the team who atm plays the best football in the league.

... BTW something that was said about us already at the beginning of our season when Hakan and Suso were in form and Biglia and Jack not injured. This makes me believe that Gattuso, when given the right players, actually is a very capabable coach.

To be fair Gattuso kept us in the running for CL during the injury crisis and before the January mercato so I give him credit for that. Also, although we do play good (sometimes very good) football for one half we also look equally shit the other. That inconsistency hasn't changed despite the arrivals of Piatek + Paqueta although we certainly play better overall.

Given their strong performances so far, maybe the rest of the team has more confidence which is why players like Hakan + Samu are suddenly finding form. Also, since the teams been in the top 4 virtually all season long there's more belief in Gattuso's coaching abilities too. Will be interesting to see how the rest of the season goes especially with the return of Conti, Caldara + Biglia.

Massaro94 · Feb 24, 2019

Kojak said:
Sarri’s out of form so there’s less options.

At this stage in the season, he's got more wins than Pep had in his first season at city.

Kojak · Feb 24, 2019

Massaro94 said:
At this stage in the season, he's got more wins than Pep had in his first season at city.

Lol doesn't matter. Pep still finished 3rd in his debut season whereas Sarri's currently 6th.

If he doesn't qualify for CL he's 100% out. Chelsea fired Conte for finishing 5th after winning the league and can't afford another season without it.

mrki · Feb 24, 2019

necromancer said:
What I've been saying here for a while when posters get obsessed about tactics is that tactics are always secondary to knowing how to manage a squad and how to get your players in the right conditions to play their natural game.

Any manager coaching in a high level league has a tactical system. Gattuso has a clear tactical system. When he becomes successful, some guy will make a youtube video about it and then it will become branded. Until then, many people can't see it and will keep saying he doesn't have any tactics. You, other posters, I have all discussed various aspects of his tactics in various threads in this forum.

So there's no question of tactics not being there at all. Beppe Iachini, Di Carlo, Nicola.. they all have tactical systems.

But it is always secondary to knowing how to manage a squad. Sarri is proving to be the classic example. He does not know how to manage diverse squads. He has a rigid, fixed way of playing football (his tactical system) and he tries to make some 14-15 players play that way - while ignoring the rest and not considering alternate styles that might suit his squad. He's open about it and clubs who hire him should know that that's what they are buying into.

Diversion: Mario Rui - great case in point of Sarri's lack of squad management. Sarri ignored him thoroughly at Napoli until Ghoulam got injured. De Laurentiis called him out on it (along with Rog and someone else I can't remember), and now see how Ancelotti managed to make Rui so good? While also keeping Ghoulam happy.

In modern football, such a tactician will not be successful if he cannot manage a squad and grow his players. For me it's clear - man management first, tactics second.

You don't need to specify that tactics are needed.. like I said, any manager worth his salt in a high level league, has a tactical system and a team of coaches who do obsess about it. It is just overstated these days because of the profusion of online analysts who create videos and long blog posts about it. None of this is new.

To me, the gold standard in modern football management remains Ancelotti and he's the perfect example of someone who knows that in order to win trophies, managing a squad is more important than tactical systems. He has used various tactical systems over the course of his career, each suited to whichever squad he's handling at that time. Players come first, tactics come later. We aren't living in Sacchi's era anymore. And all indications so far are that Gattuso learned as much as he could from Ancelotti. If he continues along this path, we will win trophies with Gattuso.

Beautifull bro. Grazie

Gennaro Gattuso Thread

When is the first clash between Gattuso and Zamparini?

Pre-season

September

October

November

December

January

February

March

April

May

June

They won't clash

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