Massimiliano Allegri Thread II

Allan_Sombrero · Feb 15, 2016

Mr Delicious said:
As if that makes a difference.

Do you not remember Enrique's Roma from 2011-12?

His Roma team lost to several smaller teams and conceded a lot of goals. Yet in Barcelona he's doing better due to the quality of the players he has at his disposal.

So yes it certainly does make a difference.

Ender · Feb 15, 2016

KujaIX said:
In his first season here, Allegri never came back from a losing position to win.

This changed with the Lecce game(I believe) and from then he was very good at saving results.

Well, we were mostly in front in that first year and rarely let the opponent score first... We had a few games where we came back after being down (the draw with Real and the 4-4 with Udinese come to mind).

One thing that people don't understand about Allegri is that he's very good at killing the strong points of the opponent and doesn't mind to wait for a mistake instead of trying to force a mistake by spending energies. Especially if you are playing multiple competitions, being able to manage energies is vital, this is the reason why many teams rarely get a treble, and that usually happens when the team is head and shoulders above the rest in the league, hence the mental energies spend on weekly games are much smaller.

I would say his style of play is very similar to the chess player Karpov, not pushing for flashy combinations, but following a logical course and try to exploit the opponent while also choking any game plan that the opponent might have. Some people might consider it boring, but it's very fascinating if you're interested in tactical play.

Ragamuffin said:
Hope you dont mind, i will add one of my own

Berlu dictating that the team play 4-3-1-2 after we made it to CL that season. Completely ruined everything they worked for during the season along with that horrible transfer campaign

That's true, I forgot about it ... and to think that Allegri doesn't mind playing a 4-3-1-2 if you give him players that can do the job (and last season at Juve is the proof)... or 4-3-3 ... or 3-5-2 ... but I digress.

KujaIX · Feb 15, 2016

GreatKalu said:
Uhm ... have we been witnessing the same turn of events?

Allegri convinced the Milan management that Pirlo was done. They weren't expecting him to compete at the highest levels for the next three years. That despite being fit for most his previous seasons until his last when he was out for half of the season ...

I think we know what level Pirlo played in for the ensuing three seasons ... not only for Juve but for Italy as well.

And where did the then called Boss lead us to? Well, thats for all to see ...

Allegri convinced the management? So, it wasn't Pirlo being sub-par for 4 seasons for us, getting injured and then not being able to reclaim his spot over Seedorf and MVB?

Yeah he was good after, perhaps, that had something to do with how he literally said he didn't give a shit at Milan and wanted to crawl to Madrid even when we were dominating Europe...

Boss as in MVB?

Well, we kinda should have won the title the next year if the refs hadn't fucked us ... and that would have been over Pirlo.

Mr Delicious said:
Apart from the blatantly absurd last sentence, good post. He just wasnt motivated to play for us. Should have cashed in to Madrid

Indeed. But I don't think the statement is absurd. It's fairly reasonable.

Mr Delicious said:
I'm not blinded by fanboyism like you and Kuja are. Saying he's a better coach than Enrique this season or Ranieri who is pulling rainbows out of his ass with Leicester. All because he created a shit situation for himself beginning of the season (as he always does) only to finally meet expectations 6 months later.

Please.

So you're objective in this matter? You're just as biased as anyone else. It's fairly arguable that Allegri has been superior to Enrique this year and maybe even last year. They played a match to decide who had the treble and Enrique won in a close match, where Juventus could have easily had a penalty and won it themselves. It's definitely arguable.

Ranieri is an exception at the moment. Extremely difficult to place him.

So... Allegri is bang average because he's meeting expectations ... but Enrique meets expectations with the best team in the world and he's incredible?

What a load of shit.

General said:
Allegri does not suck.

Case closed!

New case opened:

How good is allegri? Top 5 in Europe atm?

maybe.

Imo, yes. He's definitely arguable for the top spot, even.

Mr Delicious said:
Yeah, youre right. He went 28 in all competitions

As if that makes a difference.

Honestly, is this even worth refuting? Ranieri has a subpar if not entirely mediocre squad bar like 3 players and consistently outperforming teams that have 10x their quality. Theyre still 1st for fuck sake. Pellegrini is not fodder and Van Gaal the same. Pellegrini coached madrid some years back and i believe the same for Van Gaal. Van Gaal did wonders with that Holland squad in the world cup. Pellegrini has won the league what, every other year since hes been at City.

At least attempt to conceal your fanboyism.

Ranieri is an exceptional case. If he wins the PL or comes close, by all means give him the plaudits, but it's not like he's just out-managered everyone else in Europe, it's far more complex than that.

Pellegrini is above average and that's all. Van Gaal is literally dreadful now. I'd rather have Zaccheroni or Arrigo Sacchi now. Who gives a shit whether they managed Madrid? Benitez managed them and nobody would argue he's superior to Allegri and nobody would argue that Zidane is either. Same as how nobody would argue that Roura, Vilanova, Ciro Ferrara or Inzaghi is better simply because they also coached luminary clubs.

At least attempt to conceal your underrating.

Mr Delicious · Feb 15, 2016

Allan_Somewhere said:
Do you not remember Enrique's Roma from 2011-12?

His Roma team lost to several smaller teams and conceded a lot of goals. Yet in Barcelona he's doing better due to the quality of the players he has at his disposal.

So yes it certainly does make a difference.

Not enough to be significant. He grew as a coach. Benitez had CR7, Bale and Benzema and still got sacked 6 months later. Mou had the entire chelsea squad and got sacked 18 months into his tenure. Enrique is on his way to beat the plethora of records pep broke during his time at Barca.

Enrique is leagues ahead of Allegri. There isnt a single statistic you can show that puts Allegri at a more positive light than Enrique.

General · Feb 15, 2016

name 5 coaches who are in better form than allegri right now adjusted for the talent on their team

Can't do it

Case closed!!

In before someone says: Enrique... Because Enrique in his Roma days wasn't better than allegri

Gotta adjust for talent.

I can coach Barca and crush teams this season... Their attack is goat

KujaIX · Feb 15, 2016

Allan_Somewhere said:
Do you not remember Enrique's Roma from 2011-12?

His Roma team lost to several smaller teams and conceded a lot of goals. Yet in Barcelona he's doing better due to the quality of the players he has at his disposal.

So yes it certainly does make a difference.

Nope. That doesn't count.

Enrique's career started with Celta Vigo while Allegri's career consists of his last season at Milan, the CL final loss and the start of this season at Juventus.

Another thing that is hideously ignored by those denigrating Allegri is his ability to fit pieces together and make it work. At Milan, he had two years of Ibra - but with different styles - one of fitting together an extremely depleted squad and another of doing the same with an even worse squad.

Then he goes to Juventus, improves on Conte's performance, has a few extremely important players leave and does even better.

It's the kind of thing that people laud Fergie for and yet many ignore it for Allegri.

Ender · Feb 15, 2016

Mr Delicious said:
Yeah, youre right. He went 28 in all competitions

If you're referring to 28 unbeaten, that's not the same as measuring 15 consecutive victories. Villanova was missing for half the season with Barca and he still had only 2 losses in La Liga that season.

General · Feb 15, 2016

KujaIX said:
Nope. That doesn't count.

Enrique's career started with Celta Vigo while Allegri's career consists of his last season at Milan, the CL final loss and the start of this season at Juventus.

Another thing that is hideously ignored by those denigrating Allegri is his ability to fit pieces together and make it work. At Milan, he had two years of Ibra - but with different styles - one of fitting together an extremely depleted squad and another of doing the same with an even worse squad.

Then he goes to Juventus, improves on Conte's performance, has a few extremely important players leave and does even better.

It's the kind of thing that people laud Fergie for and yet many ignore it for Allegri.

Give Enrique Roma back... let's see what he does.

I'll bet Miha could take an Erique led Roma

Mr Delicious · Feb 15, 2016

KujaIX said:
So you're objective in this matter? You're just as biased as anyone else. It's fairly arguable that Allegri has been superior to Enrique this year and maybe even last year. They played a match to decide who had the treble and Enrique won in a close match, where Juventus could have easily had a penalty and won it themselves. It's definitely arguable.

This entirely laughable. Youre accusing me of lack of objectivity? Pot-Kettle? I digress.

Back to the substance. First of all. In no way shape or form was Allegri superior to Enrique last year. The notion he is will get you laughed at in football circles virtually everywhere in the world. Allegri did an exceptional job in Europe. I can't deny that. Saying otherwise would be absurd. I'm not an delusional. Enrique didnt meet the expectation of winning virtually every trophy that was possible last year. His expectation its safe to say was CL final and top 2 finish in La Liga. He ended up taking a massive shit on just about every opposition he faced. This was after numerous rumors hed get sacked because of a shitty relationship with Messi...among other things.

The game was not close. At all. I actually was rooting for Juve. You know how i am about coeffecients. I have no reason to have a cynical view of Juve/Allegri last year in Europe. This is as objective as objective goes. He didn't get an ass whooping. But at any point was there any doubt Barca wouldnt win. Ask anyone on this forum and beyond. Im willing to bet a majority would side with me.

Ranieri is an exception at the moment. Extremely difficult to place him.

So... Allegri is bang average because he's meeting expectations ... but Enrique meets expectations with the best team in the world and he's incredible?

What a load of shit.

Barca doesnt have the best team in the world. Bayern have a better bench and starting 11 than Barca. Honestly bar Messi there isnt a single person, player for player thats superior in Barca compared to Bayern. Arguably the same with Madrid. Barca have a better attack and Madrid have a better everything else. You're skewing everything per-usual to fit your arguement.

Ranieri is an exceptional case. If he wins the PL or comes close, by all means give him the plaudits, but it's not like he's just out-managered everyone else in Europe, it's far more complex than that.

Pellegrini is above average and that's all. Van Gaal is literally dreadful now. I'd rather have Zaccheroni or Arrigo Sacchi now. Who gives a shit whether they managed Madrid? Benitez managed them and nobody would argue he's superior to Allegri and nobody would argue that Zidane is either. Same as how nobody would argue that Roura, Vilanova, Ciro Ferrara or Inzaghi is better simply because they also coached luminary clubs.

At least attempt to conceal your underrating.

The point of bringing up Benitez was for the folks here who think an absurdly powerful and talented squad can win trophies and games out the ass without a competent coach.

Mr Delicious · Feb 15, 2016

Ender said:
If you're referring to 28 unbeaten, that's not the same as measuring 15 consecutive victories. Villanova was missing for half the season with Barca and he still had only 2 losses in La Liga that season.

Not the same but equally significant. Villanova articulated exactly what he wanted to the coaches at Barca and although he did better than anyone expected due to his condition, they still were above average compared to the usual Barca.

It's important we stop downplaying certain aspects of coaches and teams to fit ones bias.

General · Feb 15, 2016

At this point, people who think allegri sucks are just biased

Mr Delicious · Feb 15, 2016

General said:
At this point, people who think allegri sucks are just biased

Men are talking here. Head over to the commode

KujaIX · Feb 15, 2016

I have absolutely no time to argue when you think Enrique was expected to get a top 2 finish and reach the CL final when he had the best player ever and Neymar and Suarez playing up front.

To not win the treble would be a disappointment

Mr Delicious · Feb 15, 2016

KujaIX said:
I have absolutely no time to argue when you think Enrique was expected to get a top 2 finish and reach the CL final when he had the best player ever and Neymar and Suarez playing up front.

To not win the treble would be a disappointment

And im sure youd say the exact same thing had pep won the treble and faced juve in the final.

Hindsight is 20/20

Mr Delicious · Feb 15, 2016

Or Madrid won the treble and faced Juve in the final. Your argument is weak.

I'll reiterate. Allegri did an exceptional job in Europe. I didn't see that coming. Their performance was the right balance between majestic, luck and hard work. Domestically he reached expectation.

Theres a reason why Enrique won coach of the year.

The hilarious part here is youll scream how Coach of the year is a bullshit award but had Allegri won it youd use it as ammunition for his critics.

General · Feb 15, 2016

One more thing...

If I EVER see someone say: Allegri was just 'lucky', I'll chop my dick off

Allan_Sombrero · Feb 15, 2016

Mr Delicious said:
Not enough to be significant. He grew as a coach.

How is it not enough? He coached them for an entire season and he even lost to Lecce, Cagliari, and Atalanta while conceding four goals in each of those matches.

Mr Delicious said:
Benitez had CR7, Bale and Benzema and still got sacked 6 months later.

He got sacked for non-football reasons because if we talk about results; he got them.

Mr Delicious said:
Mou had the entire chelsea squad and got sacked 18 months into his tenure. Enrique is on his way to beat the plethora of records pep broke during his time at Barca.

Mourinho also won the EPL title with that Chelsea team before he got sacked the next year.

Mr Delicious said:
Enrique is leagues ahead of Allegri. There isnt a single statistic you can show that puts Allegri at a more positive light than Enrique.

Except the fact that Allegri reached the UCL final with a much weaker team than Barcelona and was still able to put up a good fight.

Enrique isn't leagues better. If anything he's marginally better due to having a better squad than Allegri.

KujaIX said:
Nope. That doesn't count.

Enrique's career started with Celta Vigo while Allegri's career consists of his last season at Milan, the CL final loss and the start of this season at Juventus.

Another thing that is hideously ignored by those denigrating Allegri is his ability to fit pieces together and make it work. At Milan, he had two years of Ibra - but with different styles - one of fitting together an extremely depleted squad and another of doing the same with an even worse squad.

Then he goes to Juventus, improves on Conte's performance, has a few extremely important players leave and does even better.

Yes. The man knows how to adapt his tactics around the players at his disposal very well. He did it at Milan (especially in 2012-13) and he's doing it at Juventus as well.

I remember we were the most in-form team in Europe in the 2012-13 season despite having such a shit squad.

Mr Delicious · Feb 15, 2016

Allan you make a good point. I'm not saying he's leagues better. Facts remains he's still better. Be it marginally or not.

Juves squad was great by the way. Juve had a better Defense and Keeper and Midfield was slightly worse than Barca with Barca have a much more superior attack. Lets not underestimate the squad Juve had.

Mr Delicious · Feb 15, 2016

Benitez had some embarrassing loses. It wasnt just non-football related things (but lets be real here, buikding relationships in the squad is football related...). Benitez reached the bear minimum and his situation got worse because of his stubborn personality and semi-shit tactics

Allan_Sombrero · Feb 15, 2016

The main reason is that Zidane was stirring shit in the background to get Benitez fired so he can take over as coach.

But yeah that's what I said about Juventus. They were a much weaker team than Barcelona overall but they played a good game in the final despite Tevez going MIA and Vidal playing like an idiot.

If Allegri can beat Bayern this year I think he will solidify his status as one of the top 3 coaches in Europe.

KujaIX · Feb 15, 2016

Mr Delicious said:
Or Madrid won the treble and faced Juve in the final. Your argument is weak.

I'll reiterate. Allegri did an exceptional job in Europe. I didn't see that coming. Their performance was the right balance between majestic, luck and hard work. Domestically he reached expectation.

Theres a reason why Enrique won coach of the year.

The hilarious part here is youll scream how Coach of the year is a bullshit award but had Allegri won it youd use it as ammunition for his critics.

I don't put too much stock in awards. I mean Messi won player of the tournament at the WC despite not winning and not even being very good.

FIFA and UEFA are both horridly corrupt and I stand by that.

Regardless, with Enrique winning the treble, it was right to give him the award. That doesn't mean that I can think it was more impressive what Allegri did, compared to Enrique. Both won the title and cup, fair, but Allegri defeated the incumbent champions and almost won the whole thing with a worse squad.

To me, firstly, I detest Barcelona and anything associated with them. They are the most odious scum in football and I will never think anything else. Secondly, Enrique had the best team in the world - purely because of the attack, but still - and Allegri almost did better.

Thirdly, and most importantly, I do not agree with you saying "Enrique is better, even marginally, but he is". That's just bullshit. You can't stand behind an opinion and wave it around like a fact. It's arrogant and trollish, admittedly calling cards of yours, but still.

Enrique inherited the best team in the world and summarily won the treble. He didn't exceed expectations, but he couldn't have anyway. Allegri did exceed expectations. I'm not trying to say he won the treble with Lecce, but he just did better, respectively.

In the same way that if Enrique or Allegri wins the treble, it won't be as impressive as Ranieri winning the title with Leicester, imo.

Allegri, to me, has proved more. He's proved he's a superior manager. Enrique was shit, then did well with Celta and then did well with the best team in the world. Stunning. It's why I think Carlo is superior to Pep even if Pep did win 6 titles in a year.

leaf · Feb 15, 2016

KujaIX said:
I don't put too much stock in awards. I mean Messi won player of the tournament at the WC despite not winning and not even being very good.

FIFA and UEFA are both horridly corrupt and I stand by that.

Regardless, with Enrique winning the treble, it was right to give him the award. That doesn't mean that I can think it was more impressive what Allegri did, compared to Enrique. Both won the title and cup, fair, but Allegri defeated the incumbent champions and almost won the whole thing with a worse squad.

To me, firstly, I detest Barcelona and anything associated with them. They are the most odious scum in football and I will never think anything else. Secondly, Enrique had the best team in the world - purely because of the attack, but still - and Allegri almost did better.

Thirdly, and most importantly, I do not agree with you saying "Enrique is better, even marginally, but he is". That's just bullshit. You can't stand behind an opinion and wave it around like a fact. It's arrogant and trollish, admittedly calling cards of yours, but still.

Enrique inherited the best team in the world and summarily won the treble. He didn't exceed expectations, but he couldn't have anyway. Allegri did exceed expectations. I'm not trying to say he won the treble with Lecce, but he just did better, respectively.

In the same way that if Enrique or Allegri wins the treble, it won't be as impressive as Ranieri winning the title with Leicester, imo.

Allegri, to me, has proved more. He's proved he's a superior manager. Enrique was shit, then did well with Celta and then did well with the best team in the world. Stunning. It's why I think Carlo is superior to Pep even if Pep did win 6 titles in a year.

A Wild Homosexual · Feb 15, 2016

I love Allegri & consider him a top coach but people who dont give Enrique credit are just naive.
If players is what it takes then why Martino failed when Enrique succeeded ?!!!!
Lets say he isnt tactical enough but his man management alone would mean he is a great coach even if he didnt do great with other clubs.
Or else I expect them to say the same shit for Carlo who have done shit unless giving a monster team& even then he underachieved most of the time :lol:

Same people would consider Maldini legendary , true , & the same time say Messi isnt because he didnt won the world cup + didnt move around..... NAIVE.

Allan_Somewhere said:
You do know Pirlo would have been useless if he stayed with us right? Pirlo needs a mobile midfield in order to succeed. He wouldn't have had that in our 2011-12 Milan team and it's obvious why Allegri would choose van Bommel instead of Pirlo.

Our team needed an anchor more than a regista.

That + the fact Pirlo didnt play as good for us as he did with Italy & latter with Juve.
If he stayed he would continue to play like shit.

Mr Delicious · Feb 15, 2016

Wild said:
I love Allegri & consider him a top coach but people who dont give Enrique credit are just naive.
If players is what it takes then why Martino failed when Enrique succeeded ?!!!!
Lets say he isnt tactical enough but his man management alone would mean he is a great coach even if he didnt do great with other clubs.
Or else I expect them to say the same shit for Carlo who have done shit unless giving a monster team& even then he underachieved most of the time
Same people would consider Maldini legendary , true , & the same time say Messi isnt because he didnt won the world cup + didnt move around..... NAIVE.

That + the fact Pirlo didnt play as good for us as he did with Italy & latter with Juve.
If he stayed he would continue to play like shit.

Ender · Feb 15, 2016

I never compared the two coaches, but if you told me to take Allegri back to Milan, I'd take him without thinking twice, and I'd consider us lucky to be able to get him.

If you told me to get L.Enrique as the next Milan coach, I'd be scared of what he'd be able to accomplish here.

KujaIX · Feb 15, 2016

Exactly the same.

Allegri goes anywhere, and I'd expect and be confident of him getting results.

Enrique goes to another big team and he's nothing more than Pellegrini.

Mr Delicious · Feb 15, 2016

Ender said:
I never compared the two coaches, but if you told me to take Allegri back to Milan, I'd take him without thinking twice, and I'd consider us lucky to be able to get him.

If you told me to get L.Enrique as the next Milan coach, I'd be scared of what he'd be able to accomplish here.

You do realize he did wonders with a semi-shit celta squad right?

VultureSheva · Feb 15, 2016

Mr Delicious said:
Yeah, youre right. He went 28 in all competitions

As if that makes a difference.

Honestly, is this even worth refuting? Ranieri has a subpar if not entirely mediocre squad bar like 3 players and consistently outperforming teams that have 10x their quality. Theyre still 1st for fuck sake. Pellegrini is not fodder and Van Gaal the same. Pellegrini coached madrid some years back and i believe the same for Van Gaal. Van Gaal did wonders with that Holland squad in the world cup. Pellegrini has won the league what, every other year since hes been at City.

At least attempt to conceal your fanboyism.

Pellegrini is a fodder, just a Mancini type of coach. Never winning vs big teams or vs top coaches.

VultureSheva · Feb 15, 2016

I would change Mihajlovic only with Allegri.

Mr Delicious · Feb 15, 2016

VultureSheva said:
Pellegrini is a fodder, just a Mancini type of coach. Never winning vs big teams or vs top coaches.

Very hard to take your opinion seriously when you say shit like this. I give credit to kuja for at least putting effort in objectivity here, you don't even try.

Mancini and pellegrini are in the mid-to-high teir of coaches. Give them a squad and they'll win something ever so often. Ranieri is also on the same category but has really outperformed himself this season

Massimiliano Allegri Thread II

Which fortunate team will hear 'Dai Dai Dai' next?

Gli Azzurri

A good Serie A team

A mediocre Italian team

A team in a good league abroad

A team in MLS, Asia etc.

Milan Legend

R.I.P Milan

Mexes & Muntari fanboy

Banned

Official RnB Mercato Stress Counselor

Mexes & Muntari fanboy

R.I.P Milan

Official RnB Mercato Stress Counselor

Banned

Banned

Official RnB Mercato Stress Counselor

Banned

Mexes & Muntari fanboy

Banned

Banned

Official RnB Mercato Stress Counselor

Milan Legend

Banned

Banned

Milan Legend

Mexes & Muntari fanboy

Sack Pioli

*Rejuvenation*

Banned

R.I.P Milan

Mexes & Muntari fanboy

Banned

Legendary Scout

Legendary Scout

Banned

Rejuvenation