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Redman10

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I don't think Ganso will leave for big money. Neymar might but then again Douglas Costa was over-hype as well and left for around 6 mil.
 

Senatore_M84

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I don't think Ganso will leave for big money. Neymar might but then again Douglas Costa was over-hype as well and left for around 6 mil.

Yup.... I don't believe a word on Brazilian clubs with prices. Everyone is 50 million :head::head:
 

DSM

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Not agree with you, kaka in Sao Paulo has already been identified as mastermind in the field due to his unstoppable support to Rogerio Ceni, Julio Baptista and Luís Fabiano.

But that is not all, his persistence, perseverance and efforts and solutions in the hard times "with Sao Paulo" are the features that Ganso has not been showed in his games as Kaka did!

in other words, Kaka has identity in Sao Paulo while Ganso do not, maybe in the coming time he would express himself more, no body knows, time will tell.

Did'nt he get abuse in the end like he now gets in Madrid because he was'nt upto what was expected.
 

Sod-Lod

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Did'nt he get abuse in the end like he now gets in Madrid because he was'nt upto what was expected.

Psychological problem, not in doubting on his skills or talent or capabilities.
 

DSM

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Psychological problem, not in doubting on his skills or talent or capabilities.

I would say Kaka' was quite strong mentally but has never had massive technical ability hence the reason why he his getting abuse in Madrid because they thought he was creative & really talented with the ball & a passer like Zidane when he is'nt & never will be.

Madrid should have realised they where getting a fast second striker who can be great on the counter with space but then again Madrid just sign anyone & there is'nt really a plan.

Kaka needs players like the ball playing Barca midfield players or like he had with Pirlo,Seedorf & Rui Costa at Milan behind him to play him into space especially if you are playing a possession based game most of the time. Sadly Madrid only have Van der Vaart & Guti who can do this & they are not regular players.Kaka' could do with Zidane playing behind him at Madrid with him in his second striker role.

I would say the problem also that Kaka' has with a 70 million price tag is that he his expected to be up & with desire for every game & this has never been his way especially against closed defences & a player like C.Ronaldo is the exact opposite in that he wants to score 10 goals every game.

Anyway if Kaka' plays as a forward I think he will do well for Madrid in the end & will score quite afew goals. Just don't expect him to be like Zidane because he cannot be.
 
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DSM

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I think since Milan got Kaka' for 7 million or whatever it was that Brazilian side have learnt to want more money, so real good signings for a relatively low fee like Kaka' are much more difficult.
 

Sod-Lod

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I would say Kaka' was quite strong mentally but has never had massive technical ability hence the reason why he his getting abuse in Madrid because they thought he was creative & really talented with the ball & a passer like Zidane when he is'nt & never will be.

Madrid should have realised they where getting a fast second striker who can be great on the counter with space but then again Madrid just sign anyone & there is'nt really a plan.

Kaka needs players like the ball playing Barca midfield players or like he had with Pirlo,Seedorf & Rui Costa at Milan behind him to play him into space especially if you are playing a possession based game most of the time. Sadly Madrid only have Van der Vaart & Guti who can do this & they are not regular players.Kaka' could do with Zidane playing behind him at Madrid with him in his second striker role.

I would say the problem also that Kaka' has with a 70 million price tag is that he his expected to be up & with desire for every game & this has never been his way especially against closed defences & a player like C.Ronaldo is the exact opposite in that he wants to score 10 goals every game.

Anyway if Kaka' plays as a forward I think he will do well for Madrid in the end & will score quite afew goals. Just don't expect him to be like Zidane because he cannot be.

I think since Milan got Kaka' for 7 million or whatever it was that Brazilian side have learnt to want more money, so real good signings for a relatively low fee like Kaka' are much more difficult.

So True, you explained it very well, and he will success in Barcelona if he been used well.
 
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Senatore_M84

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IMO one of best football jorunalists in world:

Tim Vickery>INSIDE SOCCER
More ColumnsEmail Tim
Neymar and Ganso the crown jewels of Santos' new generation


On the same day the Titanic struck that fatal iceberg in 1912, a club was founded that would raise the profile of Brazilian soccer.

All around the world Santos are almost certainly the team from Brazil that most people have heard of. This is a remarkable achievement for a club representing a relatively small city. Santos is a port with a population under 500,000, an hour's drive away from sprawling Sao Paulo, South America's biggest city. But the seaside club have often punched well above its weight, getting the best of metropolitan rivals Corinthians, Palmeiras and Sao Paulo, and often anyone else who stood in its path as well.

Clearly, much of the prestige of Santos is wrapped up with the figure of Pele, who wore its colors between 1956-73. But it would be a mistake to see the achievements of the club as solely the work of one man, however great.

Firstly, Pele had the immense fortune to be introduced as a teenager into a side that was already magnificent. Secondly, throughout his time there he had a superb supporting cast. And thirdly, the club have come on strong once again in the last few years.

Pele and Co. won the world club title in 1962 and 63, overcoming Benfica and Milan. The late 60s and early 70s were spent as soccer's version of the Harlem Globetrotters. The club gave up on chasing international titles, and instead played lucrative friendlies all over the world, bringing in the cash necessary to pay the players. Once Pele retired (later to be lured back by New York Cosmos) Santos slipped back. Brazil's national championship began in 1971. Santos had never won it -- until, in the last few years, the club's youth policy started paying off.

An amazingly young Santos side -- nobody over 27 -- won the title in 2002, and the club repeated the feat two years later. Making his name in these triumphs was Robinho -- now, of course, back at the club on a six-month loan in a bid to sharpen himself up for the coming World Cup.

The move seems to have been a success. Struggling for form at Manchester City, Robinho has rediscovered his game back on home ground. But however well he is playing, he is having to divide the plaudits with the latest products of the Santos youth development system.

Just turned 18, Neymar is a support striker of frightening talent, rated by many judges as more impressive than Robinho was at the same age. He has some of the same tricks, but is blessed with more vision of the game, is more direct and cooler in front of goal. And languid, left-footed attacking midfielder Paulo Henrique Ganso, 20, is another wonderful prospect. Together with Robinho and the rest of the gang, the pair have been playing some spell-binding stuff, full of the joy and irreverence of youth.

Coach Dorival Junior has been sending them out in a bold 4-3-3 formation, and his team has been gaining comparisons with Barcelona -- at which point the warning lights should probably be flashing.

Barcelona has done it all. It has scooped the important prizes by beating the best that anyone else can throw at it. So far, this Santos side has not even come close.

"Santos have been playing very well," said Pele recently, "but they need to be tested abroad, in a match in Uruguay or Paraguay. We need to see how these kids behave in that kind of environment."

His analysis is correct -- but does not go far enough. Santos hasnot yet seriously been tested at home. So far, the 2010 model of the team have been fighting on two fronts -- the Sao Paulo state championship, and the early stages of the Brazilian Cup. Santos has been running up baseball scores and, I stress again, it has been wonderful to watch. But the hard work has not even started. Its opponents in the cup have been weak, and the state championships in Brazil have now become discredited. It is becoming increasingly difficult to cover up the fact that these are bloated tournaments of limited significance, which serve the interests of the power structure of Brazilian soccer while sacrificing those of the major clubs. Of Santos' local rivals, Corinthians and Sao Paulo are far more concerned with their Copa Libertadores campaigns, while Palmeiras has yet to climb out of the crisis it fell into towards the end of last year. So far, then, Santos have been rabbit killers -- though, if management can keep this side together (a big if), it does indeed have the potential to become much more.

With such electric domestic form, some Brazilian observers are now getting on the bandwagon to force the selection of Neymar and Paulo Henrique Ganso in Brazil's World Cup squad.

It appears to have been overlooked that just a few months ago the pair played in World Cups at youth level and hardly set the planet ablaze.

In September and October, Ganso was in Brazil's U-20 side that unluckily lost to Ghana in the final. He had some good moments during the tournament, scored one outstanding goal, but had problems imposing himself on the game and was replaced in five of the seven games.

A couple of weeks later Neymar fared worse in the U-17 World Cup. He scored an excellent individual goal against Japan, but then made little impression against Mexico and Switzerland. Both times, with Brazil desperate for a goal, he was substituted, and the pair of 1-0 defeats meant that the much-hyped team was eliminated in the group stage.

Such failures are part of the learning curve. History teaches again and again that a bad World Cup today can help pave the way to a good one tomorrow. Ganso and Neymar could indeed make a contribution to Brazil's senior World Cup campaign.

But the idea that, based on their domestic form, they are ready to lead the charge in South Africa is unrealistic, and quite possibly harmful. Heaping that type of expectation on such young shoulders can do for a career what the iceberg did to the Titanic way back on the day that Santos were born.

Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tim_vickery/04/16/vickery.santos/#ixzz0lZCv6KPS
Get a free NFL Team Jacket and Tee with SI Subscription


I will say that too, for all his goal scoring ability and runs, neymar's vision is HIGHLY underrated. He is a true Support striker.

They will be playing cup final i think next week. Worth watching, most entertaining team I've seen in a while. As evidence by 90 goals in 25 games
 
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RossoneroTifoso

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I think we should really have a go at signing him or Ganso. It would be terrible if they ended up like Hernanes, 25 and still playing in Brazil after a dip in form. I think a bid of 15m would be a good offer. OR we could swap Ronaldinho and him.

Think about it, Ronaldinho = 30, fading star. Neymar = 18, rising star. Sure is risky, but if it pays off we will have 2 of the best players in the world Pato + Neymar. He just looks like the sort of play Milan need.
 

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Real Madrid bid 30million and got rejected. I don`t think anyone would/should pay that money anyway
 

Sven

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Neymar will certainly not leave Brazil for now. His father said it so many times that he thinks Neymar is too young to face a change of country.

Also, Santos know he could be worth a lot more in one or two years. They already made it before with Robinho.
 

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And the journalist is right pointing that in Brazil it's much more easy to play in the first half of the year than in the second half. Last year Internacional made more than 100 goals in this part of the season with a very offensive team and the likes of D'Alessandro, Taison and Nilmar - playing much alike this Santos. Yet when the big games started, they lost Brazilian Cup final, lost to LDU at Recopa, and struggle a lot in the National League (but finish second at the end).

M84, Santos will problably crush Santo André in the Final. It certainly will be worth a look.
 

Redman10

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Ganso is really worth looking at. He might be the AM Milan is looking for. He has Kaka long range shooting ability but his vision, dribbling and control is better than Kaka at the same age.
 

Senatore_M84

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Ganso is really worth looking at. He might be the AM Milan is looking for. He has Kaka long range shooting ability but his vision, dribbling and control is better than Kaka at the same age.

he's more of a midfielder than kaka. A bit slower (but not slow). But puts in good workrate. He's more like Gourcuff if you want a style comparison. Tall also.....

The only worry i'd have bout him is time on ball, adjusting to being pressured in europe. But yes i love him
 

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I dont know why ppl think this Neymar would b different than Robinho.
Or maybe I just dont like short/skinny players.
 

RossoneroTifoso

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I dont know why ppl think this Neymar would b different than Robinho.
Or maybe I just dont like short/skinny players.

What's wrong with Robinho. He is NT starter, played with teams like City and Madrid, has some great skill and speed. Very solid player technically IMO. Anyway apparently Neymar is showing more promise than Robinho did at 18.
 

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What's wrong with Robinho. He is NT starter, played with teams like City and Madrid, has some great skill and speed. Very solid player technically IMO. Anyway apparently Neymar is showing more promise than Robinho did at 18.
Then I guess maybe I dont like short + skinny players :D
But seriously , Robi is very inconsistent for my liking.
He will never hit u as world class but he was able to adjust to play wide which saved his career coz I really doubt he could v pulled the striker business.
The same goes for Neymar since I dont think he would become a great ST , not with this body.
 

RossoneroTifoso

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Then I guess maybe I dont like short + skinny players :D
But seriously , Robi is very inconsistent for my liking.
He will never hit u as world class but he was able to adjust to play wide which saved his career coz I really doubt he could v pulled the striker business.
The same goes for Neymar since I dont think he would become a great ST , not with this body.

yeah, fair enogh. That was the first thing I thought about. I mean, Pato gets pushed off the ball relatively easily, and this guy is way lighter. Someone like Messi, who while short, still has plenty of strength and power is good. Maybe Eden Hazard?
 

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Then I guess maybe I dont like short + skinny players :D
But seriously , Robi is very inconsistent for my liking.
He will never hit u as world class but he was able to adjust to play wide which saved his career coz I really doubt he could v pulled the striker business.
The same goes for Neymar since I dont think he would become a great ST , not with this body.

i dont have any choice dude, you are totally right... small size gives you issue if you are a great player but not one of the best..

first example you can see clearly through kaka... many player has been touted to be the next kaka.. i gives you examples, diego and thiago neves, two players that has talent similar to kaka bu fucked up by the smaller size.. kaka stands at 186cm and weigh 82kg while thiago - 182cm 70kg and diego 173cm 73kg.. can you see?? remember milan vs man utd 2007/2008?? where big vidic's body challenge easily rejected by kaka... end of game if in that place is diego or thiago..

2nd you can see is the problem for football midgets... etc lavezzi, alexis sanchez, robinho etc, the chances of these guys succeed is very small, i'm not saying they cant even succeed.. if you are small you have to be the best like messi, roberto carlos, maradona, garrincha, romario, george best etc... pato is off the list as pato is not a midgeT (173cm and above)...

the 3rd, what makes cristiano ronaldo a far better player than nani?? pace?? shooting?? dribbling?? technique?? the answer is size.. nani would be the same player as cr9 now if he is 10kg heavier and 10cm taller than now..

after i realize this... i always gives first impression to a player through sizes.. i duno why but yeah size matters every now and then..
 

RossoneroTifoso

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i dont have any choice dude, you are totally right... small size gives you issue if you are a great player but not one of the best..

first example you can see clearly through kaka... many player has been touted to be the next kaka.. i gives you examples, diego and thiago neves, two players that has talent similar to kaka bu fucked up by the smaller size.. kaka stands at 186cm and weigh 82kg while thiago - 182cm 70kg and diego 173cm 73kg.. can you see?? remember milan vs man utd 2007/2008?? where big vidic's body challenge easily rejected by kaka... end of game if in that place is diego or thiago..

2nd you can see is the problem for football midgets... etc lavezzi, alexis sanchez, robinho etc, the chances of these guys succeed is very small, i'm not saying they cant even succeed.. if you are small you have to be the best like messi, roberto carlos, maradona, garrincha, romario, george best etc... pato is off the list as pato is not a midgeT (173cm and above)...

the 3rd, what makes cristiano ronaldo a far better player than nani?? pace?? shooting?? dribbling?? technique?? the answer is size.. nani would be the same player as cr9 now if he is 10kg heavier and 10cm taller than now..

after i realize this... i always gives first impression to a player through sizes.. i duno why but yeah size matters every now and then..

Case 1: Giovinco AKA The Atomic Ant

Loads of skill, to small.
 

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Easy there guys. I think size is very important in football but there are many many fantastic players who are small or average size. Xavi, Messi, Iniesta for starters our own Pirlo and Seedorf and Gattuso aren't exactly giants neither were zidane, makalele or romario, baggio...etc. The list is too long really. robinho's problem is his mentality not his size. He singlehandedly raped the entire Italian defence (minus Pirlo who doesn't count) and could do it again. Neymar seems to have even more talent and equal speed as Robinho and just that fact means that he can become a scary player
 

RossoneroTifoso

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Easy there guys. I think size is very important in football but there are many many fantastic players who are small or average size. Xavi, Messi, Iniesta for starters our own Pirlo and Seedorf and Gattuso aren't exactly giants neither were zidane, makalele or romario, baggio...etc. The list is too long really. robinho's problem is his mentality not his size. He singlehandedly raped the entire Italian defence (minus Pirlo who doesn't count) and could do it again. Neymar seems to have even more talent and equal speed as Robinho and just that fact means that he can become a scary player

They all have strength though, Neymar is like a twig. I think he ways 60kg? Maybe 50kg?
 

Senatore_M84

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Then I guess maybe I dont like short + skinny players :D
But seriously , Robi is very inconsistent for my liking.
He will never hit u as world class but he was able to adjust to play wide which saved his career coz I really doubt he could v pulled the striker business.
The same goes for Neymar since I dont think he would become a great ST , not with this body.

Guess you don't like Messi or David villa :D


I truly think Robinho could be in those guys league if not for his mentality. Thats only think that stopped him.
 

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Guess you don't like Messi or David villa :D


I truly think Robinho could be in those guys league if not for his mentality. Thats only think that stopped him.

he said short + skinny, neither mesi nor villa are skinny...
 

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Maradona is shorter than Messi, Villa, Robinho and Neymar. Guess he did alright as a midget. He was hell powerful though.

yes you are right.. as i said before.. if the player is small, he has to be the the best..
 

DSM

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i dont have any choice dude, you are totally right... small size gives you issue if you are a great player but not one of the best..

first example you can see clearly through kaka... many player has been touted to be the next kaka.. i gives you examples, diego and thiago neves, two players that has talent similar to kaka bu fucked up by the smaller size.. kaka stands at 186cm and weigh 82kg while thiago - 182cm 70kg and diego 173cm 73kg.. can you see?? remember milan vs man utd 2007/2008?? where big vidic's body challenge easily rejected by kaka... end of game if in that place is diego or thiago..

2nd you can see is the problem for football midgets... etc lavezzi, alexis sanchez, robinho etc, the chances of these guys succeed is very small, i'm not saying they cant even succeed.. if you are small you have to be the best like messi, roberto carlos, maradona, garrincha, romario, george best etc... pato is off the list as pato is not a midgeT (173cm and above)...

the 3rd, what makes cristiano ronaldo a far better player than nani?? pace?? shooting?? dribbling?? technique?? the answer is size.. nani would be the same player as cr9 now if he is 10kg heavier and 10cm taller than now..

after i realize this... i always gives first impression to a player through sizes.. i duno why but yeah size matters every now and then..

One is fast or was fast.

The other two are slow but have more footballing ability.

All three fall over alot & dive.

One has had a good career the other two have'nt really done much but have time.

Nani plays like C.Ronaldo did when he was 18 or 19 & Ronaldo was able to go on to great things, where as Nani is'nt mentally strong enough or clever enough to do this.
 

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Santos won the Paulistão yesterday.

He scored twice, the first goal was great and the Ganso assist to the second was awesome. Neymar played well but he's diving more and more each game. Ganso was IMHO man of the match, always dangerous and refused to be substituted at the end.


 

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Santos won the Paulistão yesterday.

He scored twice, the first goal was great and the Ganso assist to the second was awesome. Neymar played well but he's diving more and more each game. Ganso was IMHO man of the match, always dangerous and refused to be substituted at the end.

Ganso... i love that kid. Amazing vision. People say he's new kaka or rivaldo, i don't see it....

to me he's more comaprable to rui costa (style wise) or more of a player who is natural AM, not forward... what do you think? He really knows how to play top of diamond in 4-3-1-2

Neymay would probably be better fit for milan though. Could you imagine Ronaldinho supplying pato and neymar, with all those brilliant runs they make?
 
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