Official Basketball thread(NBA; EuroLeague etc)

Ashish · May 28, 2013

means/ deserves has nothing to do with it

Whoever wins 4 is the champions ... holy shit i saw the video where downtown san antonio was going crazy

I wish this is not Manus last series with spurs

Ashish · May 28, 2013

Unlike me when Lowe promises he delivers

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id...nard-george-hill-trade-2013-conference-finals

Kwahi Hill trade

Ashish · May 28, 2013

Better version

G.Costanza · May 28, 2013

Ashish said:
means/ deserves has nothing to do with it

Whoever wins 4 is the champions ... holy shit i saw the video where downtown san antonio was going crazy

I wish this is not Manus last series with spurs

I don't think this way, there's a reason why this team is fired up and doing all this, I refuse to call them just a really good basketball team, there's more to it.

Senatore_M84 · May 28, 2013

Alan Shore said:
One more ring means a LOT to these people, much more than Lebron and Heat.

hahahaha how can you say that?

of course both sides desperately want to win it all. You don't get to this level w/o a gigantic competitive streak.

Ashish · May 28, 2013

Alan Shore said:
I don't think this way, there's a reason why this team is fired up and doing all this, I refuse to call them just a really good basketball team, there's more to it.

I dont know how to answer it .. When you go into a finals .. the winner takes everything .. thats how it is and thats how it will be .. I want spurs to win it

I didnt say they are just a very good team . .they are great fucking team .. to survive the dna for more than a decade and come back to fight against the best player since jordan.. this is better than Mavs in 2011

G.Costanza · May 28, 2013

Senatore_M84 said:
hahahaha how can you say that?

of course both sides desperately want to win it all. You don't get to this level w/o a gigantic competitive streak.

I'll answer that in a month when you see the difference on the court.

guestposter · May 28, 2013

you can't put a stat to this 'who wants it more' thing. It's understandable that Senatore is questioning the 'intangible' argument that people bring up from time to time. It's not quantifiable....until now.

I have a friend who worked for the Bulls as an analyst during the Jordan era. She's still involved with basketball at the collegiate level (thank you for yearly final four tickets) She has a PHD and her husband is a professor at ASU- both 29. Smartest friends I have by a LONG SHOT. (dude put a home made rocket into fucking orbit- by HIMSELF)

I was over their house for dinner and they said there is a new way that people track players which can capture their 'motivation' into statistics. Of course it's not called 'motivation' but.. anyways... there are cameras focused on each player at all times during the game and to track their movement at all times. They are tracking these types of stats now which supposedly can identify the difference between the teams that 'want' it more.. I'm going to call her and get more info on this.

Ashish · May 28, 2013

Fucking basketball is the most superstar dependent team game ever(i am not blaming or bitching .. just my observation) .. and in whatever universe it comes down to last 2 minutes

usually team with best player/players wins in the playoffs ...

Thats why i was not particularly interested in basketball when you have to choose between football and basketball

I know its a bird view of the game sometimes its that simple

guestposter · May 28, 2013

http://www.foxsportsnorth.com/12/05/12/Will-these-cameras-make-box-scores-obsol/landing_timberwolves.html?blockID=830647&feedID=3697

They are already tracking what people believed were intangibles - how much faster/longer someone runs in regular season vs. playoffs, reaction time, bad starts vs. comebacks, how fast/hard/farther players run when they are up vs. down etc etc. This article is a bit old and more teams are signed on to this technology which has improved since this was written.

If stats are your thing this is stat heaven.

Shiby · May 28, 2013

Duncan so boring :rolleyes:

Why didnt Clippers make it?

Shiby · May 28, 2013

Ashish said:
and in whatever universe it comes down to last 2 minutes

usually team with best player/players wins in the playoffs ...

Isnt that the whole point of building a team? Playing sports? That the best one wins?

Ashish · May 28, 2013

Shiby said:
Isnt that the whole point of building a team? Playing sports? That the best one wins?

you misunderstood me .. i am saying a basketball game has more impact with one player .. of course i am silly its 5 player team .. in football it amortised and your weakest link defines you most time.

well game has changed and now teams smell for vulnerability and go for the kill

Ashish · May 28, 2013

irodrigu said:
http://www.foxsportsnorth.com/12/05/12/Will-these-cameras-make-box-scores-obsol/landing_timberwolves.html?blockID=830647&feedID=3697

They are already tracking what people believed were intangibles - how much faster/longer someone runs in regular season vs. playoffs, reaction time, bad starts vs. comebacks, how fast/hard/farther players run when they are up vs. down etc etc. This article is a bit old and more teams are signed on to this technology which has improved since this was written.

If stats are your thing this is stat heaven.

excellent

we are in the matrix world

Senatore_M84 · May 28, 2013

irodrigu said:
you can't put a stat to this 'who wants it more' thing. It's understandable that Senatore is questioning the 'intangible' argument that people bring up from time to time. It's not quantifiable....until now.

I have a friend who worked for the Bulls as an analyst during the Jordan era. She's still involved with basketball at the collegiate level (thank you for yearly final four tickets) She has a PHD and her husband is a professor at ASU- both 29. Smartest friends I have by a LONG SHOT. (dude put a home made rocket into fucking orbit- by HIMSELF)

I was over their house for dinner and they said there is a new way that people track players which can capture their 'motivation' into statistics. Of course it's not called 'motivation' but.. anyways... there are cameras focused on each player at all times during the game and to track their movement at all times. They are tracking these types of stats now which supposedly can identify the difference between the teams that 'want' it more.. I'm going to call her and get more info on this.

my problem with this.

I never once saw a point where MJ 'wanted it' more than payton or barkley or stockton etc. I never saw Dirk and co. wanting it more than lebron/wade. etc.

There is a legitimate argument for 'focus'. At that level, 1-2 possessions can turn a game, and so taking 1-2 off or making a dumb mental error, it can cost you. I don't see that as motivation though.

-

Execution, attention to detail, etc. that's a lot to do w/ experience of playing in these high level games.

when i look at both miami and spurs, they both got it. Both teams are experienced.

Who will execute and play better? Well that remains to be seen.

what I see happening is, Spurs D will force Miami to go small, to allow lebron into post more, to break them down.

The question becomes then, how do they handle Spurs size? You gotta use 2 bigs v. miami to have an edge, but when miami spread it wide, who will splitter guard?

It's gonna be a back and forth, and a good series it if it happens.

-

On the flip side, miami does play the best pressure D in nba. However spurs can move ball fast enough to avoid traps, they should get easy looks

guestposter · May 28, 2013

Senatore_M84 said:
my problem with this.

I never once saw a point where MJ 'wanted it' more than payton or barkley or stockton etc. I never saw Dirk and co. wanting it more than lebron/wade. etc.

There is a legitimate argument for 'focus'. At that level, 1-2 possessions can turn a game, and so taking 1-2 off or making a dumb mental error, it can cost you. I don't see that as motivation though.

-

Execution, attention to detail, etc. that's a lot to do w/ experience of playing in these high level games.

when i look at both miami and spurs, they both got it. Both teams are experienced.

Who will execute and play better? Well that remains to be seen.

what I see happening is, Spurs D will force Miami to go small, to allow lebron into post more, to break them down.

The question becomes then, how do they handle Spurs size? You gotta use 2 bigs v. miami to have an edge, but when miami spread it wide, who will splitter guard?

It's gonna be a back and forth, and a good series it if it happens.

-

On the flip side, miami does play the best pressure D in nba. However spurs can move ball fast enough to avoid traps, they should get easy looks

you make a great point.. I'm just predicting that we will be able to get to the 'motivation' stat more than ever in the next few years.

Imagine being able to track how many passes, how fast the passes were, from what players are the passes faster and when. There are literally thousands of possibilities here.

and- the company 'STATS' that produces this: my friend and her brother work there. Let's see what plays out.

Senatore_M84 · May 28, 2013

irodrigu said:
http://www.foxsportsnorth.com/12/05/12/Will-these-cameras-make-box-scores-obsol/landing_timberwolves.html?blockID=830647&feedID=3697

They are already tracking what people believed were intangibles - how much faster/longer someone runs in regular season vs. playoffs, reaction time, bad starts vs. comebacks, how fast/hard/farther players run when they are up vs. down etc etc. This article is a bit old and more teams are signed on to this technology which has improved since this was written.

If stats are your thing this is stat heaven.

haha i posted this stuff a bunch.

Note this-

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id...ors-sportvu-cameras-nba-analytical-revolution

That last bit — the ability to recognize individual player skills — is crucial for the juiciest bit of what the Raptors have accomplished: those clear circles that sort of follow the Toronto players around and have the same jersey numbers. Those are ghost players, and they are doing what Toronto's coaching staff and analytics team believe the players should have done on this play — and on every other Toronto play the cameras have recorded.3 The system has factored in Toronto's actual scheme and the expected point value of every possession as play evolves.4 The team could use that expected value system to build an "ideal" NBA defense irrespective of the Toronto scheme, but doing so today would be pointless, since part of the team's job is to sell a sometimes skeptical coaching staff on the value of all these new numbers and computer programs, says Alex Rucker, the Raptors' director of analytics.

Essentially, you have toronto players defensive movements tracked from above with a 'ghost' of where they should be. A clear visual of who made a wrong rotation etc.

It's not always easy to naked eye, and personally i usually have to rewind to notice a lot of subtleties

Ultra-aggressive help defense is really hard work. Replay that clip and watch how far DeRozan's ghost has to move as the Knicks swing the ball. That's brutal, and it's not a coincidence that the only team that consistently mirrors the help defense of its ghosts is Miami, Rucker says. The Heat have three of the best wing defenders in the league in Shane Battier, LeBron James, and Dwyane Wade, and the latter two are among the NBA's most gifted pure athletes. James can mimic DeRozan's hyperactive ghost in a way no other player can, Rucker says. "LeBron basically messes up the system and the ghosts," Rucker says. "He does things that are just unsustainable for most players."

Of every player charteds in NBA, Lebron is only one who can actually physically mimic being where he's suppose to be, at that high level speed, at all times.

his defensive intelligence is off the map.

Of course, you have to consider, when you play D, you need 5 guys doing that, and a lot of miami's breakdowns come from others. Lack of a 'rim eraser' inside... like a dwight or hibbert or a m.gasol or duncan who can clean up a poor rotation. Of course even those, guys can't make up for it if EVERYONE is messing up. It makes miami's margin for error on defense smaller than other teams

Senatore_M84 · May 28, 2013

this quote at end sums up why this stuff is so intriguing-

But let's not exaggerate: This isn't Moneyball, with people at each other's throats and folks threatening to quit their jobs. It's not even close to that, actually, and that's in part because the SportVU data do something most smart NBA people have been doing for a long time: combine video (the "eye test") with advanced statistics. Understanding sports has never been about one or the other; it's about both, and the cameras represent the most advanced actualization of that marriage.

Reason they used toronto btw, was cause toronto granted Lowe access. I dunno why they did, probably trying to get positive PR for a down-trodden franchise.

Most teams who use this stuff like spurs, rockets, warriors, celts and so on, are secretive with data... because lets be honest, why would you want to give away your competitive advantage?

Shiby · May 28, 2013

Ashish said:
you misunderstood me .. i am saying a basketball game has more impact with one player .. of course i am silly its 5 player team .. in football it amortised and your weakest link defines you most time.

well game has changed and now teams smell for vulnerability and go for the kill

Well yeah... NBA is extremely superstar dependent. Having only 5 players definitely helps and the thing that LeBron did with getting a shitty team to the finals couldn´t happen anywhere else.

Though its different in Euroleague or when NT play. Much more compact, team oriented and a better tactical approach. Not better by any means just a lot different. Sort of like comparing Premier League to Seria A.

Different rules in Europe and NBA definitely do their thing also.

Ashish · May 28, 2013

Shiby said:
Well yeah... NBA is extremely superstar dependent. Having only 5 players definitely helps and the thing that LeBron did with getting a shitty team to the finals couldn´t happen anywhere else.

Though its different in Euroleague or when NT play. Much more compact, team oriented and a better tactical approach. Not better by any means just a lot different. Sort of like comparing Premier League to Seria A.

Different rules in Europe and NBA definitely do their thing also.

I am very fine with it .. i didnt like the concept when i was young .. esp when height advantage and everything but its the better team sport out there after football and since toronto mapleafs is shitty and less violent

i like the way spurs play ... i understood little late there is no point in playing iso/individual game in a team sport

i wish milan buy all two way players

Senatore_M84 · May 28, 2013

Shiby said:
Well yeah... NBA is extremely superstar dependent. Having only 5 players definitely helps and the thing that LeBron did with getting a shitty team to the finals couldn´t happen anywhere else.

Though its different in Euroleague or when NT play. Much more compact, team oriented and a better tactical approach. Not better by any means just a lot different. Sort of like comparing Premier League to Seria A.

Different rules in Europe and NBA definitely do their thing also.

A Lot of this..... has to do w/ NBA salary cap.

If it was europe. Lakers would have 5 superstars in prime. Spurs would likely be a mid to lower table team. Purely related to teams individual ability to generate revenue.

NBA caps your salaries, and shares revenue so everyteam has a shot.

Bigger markets have an edge, but it's not nearly the same edge you got in europe.

Look at it this way-

Lakeras got a $3 billion local TV deal for 20 years of rights. That's just local so-cal tv, not counting merchandise sales, tickets and all other forms of revenue.

They generate so much more revenue than others. But Cap simply inhibits actions they can take, when reality is, they could easily afford a 200million pay roll w/o thinking twice.

Senatore_M84 · May 28, 2013

by the way, lack of team approach, imo has 2 factors too

so cap limits talent. When you got 1 player who is far and away best on team, which is case for a lot of shittier teams who don't share ball, it intrinsically leads to this. He's gonna 'do him' he thinks it's their best shot to win.

2. A lot of coaches are just dumb and cant control players

-

You can look at team usa, most talented team in world, as opposite. You got paul, kobe, durant, lebron, melo all playing team ball.

All are very capable of 1 v 1 non team ball, and a few are notoriously known for it in NBA. But together they play like a euro team, in part cause of pure trust.

Lebron has always trusted teammates, but you could say kobe or melo haven't. melo won't pass to x,y,z even if open, cause he tihkns he's so much better. But you don't see that turn up in team usa, when he knows, if he doesnt pass to an open paul or lebron, he'll be benched for next guy who isn't exactly a level below

Ashish · May 28, 2013

TOny parker is driving this bus all year since 2011 :cool:

Parker my man lets steal another finals MVP from lebron my man Tony parkr .. chris paul better than him .. haters all around :cool:

Jalen rose like tony parker .. :cool:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/video/2013/may/28/tony-parker-spurs-finals-video

Senatore_M84 · May 28, 2013

I went and looked it up.

Tim Duncan at 37 in playoffs-
18 ppg, 9 rpg, 2 apg, great defense

Kareem at same age-
23.4 ppg, 8.2 rpg, 3.8 apg

Only big guy i could think of who played at THAT high a level at that age. Kareem lost to celticsi n 7 in finals, but played well offensively. But he didn't play D Duncan played at that point, or rebound like Duncan.

Magic with an insane 18.2 ppg, 13.5 apg that playoffs. Too bad Larry Bird decided to be larry bird, and go 27.5 ppg, 11 rpg, 5.9 apg

Shiby · May 28, 2013

Senatore_M84 said:
A Lot of this..... has to do w/ NBA salary cap.

If it was europe. Lakers would have 5 superstars in prime. Spurs would likely be a mid to lower table team. Purely related to teams individual ability to generate revenue.

NBA caps your salaries, and shares revenue so everyteam has a shot.

Bigger markets have an edge, but it's not nearly the same edge you got in europe.

Look at it this way-

Lakeras got a $3 billion local TV deal for 20 years of rights. That's just local so-cal tv, not counting merchandise sales, tickets and all other forms of revenue.

They generate so much more revenue than others. But Cap simply inhibits actions they can take, when reality is, they could easily afford a 200million pay roll w/o thinking twice.

Yeah I get that and I completely support salary cap. Big markets in Europe have a huge edge. Barcelona, Madrid, Athens, Istanbul, Moscow are the only cities that will produce an Euroleague champion for probably next 15 years or more if something extreme doesn´t happen. Euroleague is extremely poorly run by old dudes who have no idea how to market the league. Its horrendous. And huge part of Europe is loosing interest. Italy is going to shit, Balkans is trying to catch up just by producing talent which leaves anyway. Germany is trying something. Other than that its a league of 4 countries.

Good thing about Europe is awesome coaches and great fans.

rossonero23 · May 28, 2013

Ashish said:
your boy bill simmons was also mad at ref .. i just knew spurs would sweep it .. i had a feeling after first game then 3rd games first quarter happened

simmons kept saying that he doesnt hate san antonio. spurs fan are attacking him on twitter. :g:

t-mac ftw!!! :cool:

Senatore_M84 · May 28, 2013

simmons and lowe always go off on the 'hater' phenomenon cause they're annoyed. I totally agree

their job is to watch games and give opinions. Minute they say something like 'I think Manu might be nearly done' they get like 50 tweets saying "SPURS HATER" and they get pissed.

I agree with them, lol, just cause you criticize, doesnt make you a hater, if you make an actual argument

Senatore_M84 · May 28, 2013

The Adjustment Bureau: LeBron in the Post

Overtime=Timmy Time

http://stats.nba.com/featured/number_crunch_2013.html

good article, breaking down Lebron's game 3 adjustment

and farther pack Timmy D in OT

Ashish · May 28, 2013

rossonero23 said:
simmons kept saying that he doesnt hate san antonio. spurs fan are attacking him on twitter.

t-mac ftw!!!

I love bill simmons a lot but spurs fan have a gripe against every single reporter with espn .. well it doesnt matter

Bill simmons, JA andande and Zach lowe has a great set of work to look back and reflect on this team.

its archive material .. if you say bill simmons tell him all the stories he written about timmy and spurs are very entertaining and solid gold.

I want to congratulate memphis on their greatseason..

Another small market team, they need to keep hollins even though his adjustments were shit in the series. Trade ZBo and allen for a plethora of shooters and a great player

Good work Memphis..

Senatore_M84 · May 28, 2013

Zbo to Indy for granger is something I could see

Hollinger doesn't love zbo. And would like to get out of the contract. Granger also is only owed one year. Giving Hollinger ability to reshape roster

Not to mention he was mad Hollins didn't utilize ED Davis. Young pf who was center peice of gay trade and played well for Toronto. He's only like 22 I think.

Official Basketball thread(NBA; EuroLeague etc)

Milan Legend

Milan Legend

Milan Legend

AKA Costanza

Milan Legend

Milan Legend

AKA Costanza

guestposter

Guest

Milan Legend

guestposter

Guest

Bandwagon hopper

Bandwagon hopper

Milan Legend

Milan Legend

Milan Legend

guestposter

Guest

Milan Legend

Milan Legend

Bandwagon hopper

Milan Legend

Milan Legend

Milan Legend

Milan Legend

Milan Legend

Bandwagon hopper

Milan Icon

Milan Legend

Milan Legend

Milan Legend

Milan Legend