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Old 18-06-2019, 19:19   #21
Colossus
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Originally Posted by Goodfella View Post
How long until the team drops the forced, impractical 4-3-1-2?

It took 3.5 games in 2012/2013.
No more than a few preseason games in 2013/2014.
8 games in 2014-2015.


I think we'll hit a post-2012 record this time. Giampaolo has used 4-3-1-2, from start, in EVERY single game in charge of Sampdoria and Empoli, with zero exceptions. He might stick to this until he's fired, and that's probably not going to happen until at least a few months into the season.

The only hope is that he mimics Sarri once again.
Giampaolo wasn't this strongly associated with 4-3-1-2 until he replaced Sarri at Empoli, and copied him, which saved his career.
4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 were his thing at Catania.
It's Sarri who was the 4-3-1-2 guy, and he tried to bring that over to Napoli, but he quickly realized it was impractical and shifted to a 4-3-3 that was a more advanced form of Benitez' 4-2-3-1.


Hopefully Giampaolo is as pragmatical as the guy who saved his career.
And hopefully Maldini and co aren't stupid enough to put all the eggs in one shitty basket, 4-3-1-2 in this case. It would repeat the mistakes of 2013, 2015 and 2017 summer mercati.
The attackers we sign need to be versatile and dynamic. Our trequartista signing needs to be a dynamic attacking player who can also play wide. As only Paqueta right now seems remotely able to play there in our current squad, and even he lacks the speed and ball carrying ability to majorly succeed there IMO.

Both of our SS signings should also be able to play wide.

Once we follow this kind of thinking then the only major difference is if we play 4312 primarily then we'll need an immense LB. We can get by with RR and wide forward systems, but not in a 4312.

It really would be silly indeed to sign specialist TQ's or specialist SS's, but the good thing is, nowadays these types of players don't really exist, as almost everyone plays with wide players and single CF systems.

So someone in the mould of Ziyech for TQ who can play wide, works extremely hard, attacks space off the ball, and can carry the ball with decent pace would be the archetype signing.
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Old 18-06-2019, 20:18   #22
necromancer
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Giampaolo doesn’t play with a specialist trequartista like the older version of 4-3-1-2. The front 3 move around constantly. As they should. Paqueta I think is quite ideal for the role.


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Old 18-06-2019, 21:54   #23
VooDooDoll
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Originally Posted by Goodfella View Post
"Forced, impractical" as in it wasn't decided based on what he had available or results.
There are few cases in Top 4 leagues where 4312 is the best choice and they typically involve rare players like Pirlo, Ibra and Suarez.
If you have already decided to go with 4312 before even being appointed, then, well.....

and looking at his results, defensive record and admittedly strong tactical effort he put in at Sampdoria with the players he had available, I can't say 4312 looked optimal for all 3 of those rosters.
i dont know what formation we will play or why would even giampaolo come to acm based on his overall results. but from other hand best team he ever trained is sampdoria ... not much you can show this days in italy if you dont get chance with 'serieA big team'

will be interesting to see what kind of players we will get ... last winger with some quality (and basic winger characteristic) we had is probably bona ... + niang.


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Gaetano F. Intrieri: Savic as far as I know is done. They are dealing with Rashford and Godin as well as Rabiot for June.
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Old 19-06-2019, 03:17   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colossus View Post
The attackers we sign need to be versatile and dynamic. Our trequartista signing needs to be a dynamic attacking player who can also play wide. As only Paqueta right now seems remotely able to play there in our current squad, and even he lacks the speed and ball carrying ability to majorly succeed there IMO.

Both of our SS signings should also be able to play wide.

Once we follow this kind of thinking then the only major difference is if we play 4312 primarily then we'll need an immense LB. We can get by with RR and wide forward systems, but not in a 4312.

It really would be silly indeed to sign specialist TQ's or specialist SS's, but the good thing is, nowadays these types of players don't really exist, as almost everyone plays with wide players and single CF systems.

So someone in the mould of Ziyech for TQ who can play wide, works extremely hard, attacks space off the ball, and can carry the ball with decent pace would be the archetype signing.

Such limited trequartisti and second strikers are very rare indeed, but there's the possibility/fear the second striker(s) will be one of those failed CFs rather than a proper fantasista.
I'm not a fan of the Defrel or Gastón Pereiro type.
Luckily Atalanta was there to take Muriel away at least.




Quote:
Originally Posted by necromancer View Post
Giampaolo doesn’t play with a specialist trequartista like the older version of 4-3-1-2. The front 3 move around constantly. As they should. Paqueta I think is quite ideal for the role.
It does look like what Allegri would describe as "4-3-let's see what happens".
Allegri deployed that when he had the personnel for it, and dropped it when he lost the proper second strikers and received a wide forward.

I hope Giampaolo is as pragmatical. His track record with this brand of football is not like Gasperini's. We don't know if there's a huge upside to it that can justify this rigid approach. He doesn't even have a long history of it. It only began with Empoli in 2015.

I really hope he surprises me, but this looks really bad.
I think his overly tactical approach and emphasis on the collective might benefit us in the long run, but we need Top 4 next season.



As for Paqueta, I'm not sure he has the tempo or pace in him for it, or the other winger qualities. He struggles as it is, coming from the slow tempo of Brazilian league. CAM in a "4-3-let's see what happens" requires extraordinary athleticism. Guys like KPB, Coutinho(at LPool) and Delle Ali have/had that. Paq looks nowhere close to it, and I don't think it's due to the lack of rest.


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Last edited by Goodfella; 19-06-2019 at 23:49.
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Old 19-06-2019, 06:27   #25
necromancer
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Putting all our eggs on the Paqueta basket won’t work of course. We need an alternative for him. Before we get there though, I’d like to see a balanced team with a clear identity in attacking and defensive phases. That’s something Giampaolo is obsessed about. Gattuso also prioritized that, but simply didn’t have the players nor the environment to execute it. Hopefully Marco gets both.


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Old 19-06-2019, 19:42   #26
nonsonoqui
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Default Official: Marco Giampaolo

The man with two first names. I like him already.

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Old 19-06-2019, 20:14   #27
Boban1982
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Welcome and good luck. You're gonna need it!


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Old 19-06-2019, 20:17   #28
Thenebra
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Better not fuck it up.

I want a sexy 4th with no stress.


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Old 19-06-2019, 20:22   #29
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Ok


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Old 19-06-2019, 21:16   #30
Milaniscool
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Good luck to this guy. Hopefully it works out, we are all tired of mediocre coaches.
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Old 19-06-2019, 23:17   #31
sheva
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so with Inter getting stronger, Jube and Napoli fortifying their place in the top, we will need a strong mercato or an elite coach, or both.

unfortunately it seems like we will get neither.
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Old 20-06-2019, 14:47   #32
fray
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so with Inter getting stronger, Jube and Napoli fortifying their place in the top, we will need a strong mercato or an elite coach, or both.

unfortunately it seems like we will get neither.
Our coach is the most underrated of them. An 'under the radar' move.
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Old 20-06-2019, 19:24   #33
necromancer
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Unfortunately he’s not underrated in the league. Sarri spoke of Giampaolo and Conte in the same breath today.

Managerially we are going to have a belter next season. Sarri, Giampaolo, and apparently Fonseca are known for their system approach. Then you’ve got Conte who’s peak grinta. Ancelotti who’s the smartest man manager around. And the best manager of last season Gasperini.


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Old 21-06-2019, 08:57   #34
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i have a good feeling about him but not about the team itself. we seriously lack leaders. by leaders i don't necessarily mean older players but players who can rally the team. i see some of that quality in piatek, cutrone really stirs up the crowd and that's it we don't have anyone else. roma needs to be more vocal on the pitch and not just when complaining to the refs.

with baka gone, we have a huge hole in the midfield. other than that, talent wise, i think we are good enough to challenge for fourth place. lets see.
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Old 22-06-2019, 18:22   #35
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Montoleader.


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I see it. I like it. I save it. I post it.
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Old 22-06-2019, 22:53   #36
CDarius
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Good luck !
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Old 23-06-2019, 17:36   #37
necromancer
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So today someone revealed that Giampaolo is very much an adherent of the left leaning political school (rooted in the Tuscan area) in Italy.

As if I needed one more reason to love him.


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Old 23-06-2019, 18:50   #38
Ronin
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Necro, you're jinxing him too much.

When was the last time someone you rated made it here?


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We practice unpopular culture, that is honour, courage and commitment!
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Old 23-06-2019, 22:09   #39
Balo45
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I think Hakan should play as the CAM and Paqueta deeper. Paqueta is underrated here anyway, he came in tired and not used to serie a and instantly changed our team for the better. Not super great individual performances but having another player capable of moving the ball into good positions helped Piatek score right off the bat. His injury and suspension toward the end of the season was correlated with a big dip in form and less goals scored. Had he played and been fit during the run in, I think we’d be in top 4.


Also, correct me if I’m wrong but I’ve read a lot of tactical analysis that doesn’t agree that Giampaolos CAM is more of a forward, or even that he prefers a creative second striker. Yes the CAM stays high and must find space between the lines, but I’ve seen that he sometimes likes two more classic strikers up top, and that they stay very high and isolated, not swapping with the attacking mid too much. They need to stay high to draw defenders out, there’s no width, so someone needs to stay high and open up the field for the midfielders. In a 4312 that’s vital.
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Old 23-06-2019, 22:59   #40
Congo Powers
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Quote:
Originally Posted by necromancer View Post
So today someone revealed that Giampaolo is very much an adherent of the left leaning political school (rooted in the Tuscan area) in Italy.

As if I needed one more reason to love him.


*click*
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