Lionel Messi Thread

MilanoMichael said:

[/LIST]LOL first off you forgot 2002 (or do even hardcore Brazil fans admit that was a farce/doesn't count?) and saying he won the 1994 wc is like saying Baresi won it in 1982.

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Please don't justify that look from that picture of yours

drucurl said:

To be honest and I know nonbody will agree with me here I think Kaka' is better. Suer he's shit now...but Kaka' led a shit milan to a Champions League. Kaka also raped Messi when they played eachother.

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They were not SHIT!

Seedorf and Gattuso's form alone no one has replicated in there positions in UCL. Not batha's precious xavi. Seedorf was dominant. Gattuso marked out the best player in world.

And Maldini, Nesta (and even Oddo) did wonderful defense. Jankulovski? no comment

MilanoMichael said:

[/LIST]
LOL first off you forgot 2002 (or do even hardcore Brazil fans admit that was a farce/doesn't count?) and saying he won the 1994 wc is like saying Baresi won it in 1982.

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I think WC 2002 was the worst world cup I saw in my entire life ... Senegal's run aside. It was the worst officiated + you could say Germany were lucky to have the US and South Korea in the quarters and semis respectively. Then, Brazil probably only had one hard game I can think of ... England. After that, it was minnows (all due respect) + a final with a lucky German side without their best player ... Ballack.

IMO, easily the worst world cup in my life time thus far.

Milano84 said:

They were not SHIT!

Seedorf and Gattuso's form alone no one has replicated in there positions in UCL. Not batha's precious xavi. Seedorf was dominant. Gattuso marked out the best player in world.

And Maldini, Nesta (and even Oddo) did wonderful defense. Jankulovski? no comment

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Agree regarding the team effort. If Kaka' was a one man show, then why wasn't he causing havoc in Serie A? Why wasn't he at his majestic best the following season?

I don't want to take anything away from Kaka's performance in 07 ... it was breathtaking. Certainly, the brand/style of football he brought is more towards my taste, so I'm probably more biased towards him. Still, its my opinion ... and I'm entitled to it. I think Kaka's best > Dinho's best. Kaka's best > Messi's best (thus far).

A great test for Messi will be Inter ... thats a well organized team defensively. If he can toy around with them, then he has my respect - regardless of him accidentally sitting on an injection from age 11, filled exactly with 50ml of some unknown substances, three times every alternate day. Until now, he's had to deal with relatively mediocre defenses ... furthermore testament to the drop in quality of the UCL this season. Perhaps this has something to do with the World Cup coming up?

Apr 8, 2010 10:50:00 AM


South American Dispatch: Diego Maradona Claims Lionel Messi Is Better Than Jesus.

After watching Lionel Messi’s four-goal performance for Barcelona against Arsenal, his international boss Diego Maradona has compared him with Jesus.

While the world salivated over Messi’s display against the Gunners in the quarter-finals of the Champions League, the highest praise of all has come from the most famous player to have every played for Barcelona.

“We’re all very happy for him and we also know how lucky we are that he is an Argentine. He is playing his football like Jesus at the moment.”

In an interview with the 'Perros de la Calle' program on Radio Metro, the current head coach of the Argentine national team spoke about a conversation he shared with Messi after the recent 1-0 friendly victory over Germany.

“I told him that my playing days have long been over. I told him that it’s up to him to do as much as he can with his career and then at the end we will see who's the best.”

The relationship between Maradona and Messi has long been big news in Argentina with plenty of people thinking that the 1986 World Cup winner is trying hard to ensure that Barcelona’s striker does not replace him in the hearts of his public. Maradona however spoke of a good relationship between the two.

“Leo is on the right path and is he looking forward to achieving more. We talked for two hours in a hotel in Barcelona after the win against Germany and we solved a lot of problems. I told him what happened to me when I started and how every match is different, each one presents it’s own challenges.”

Maradona also said that he has never been tempted to drop Messi from his national team, despite criticism of the pint-sized forward in Argentina.

“We have been told that Messi does not have the passion to play for Argentina but I have seen him at close quarters and I know I can rely on him.”

Ahead of the trip to South Africa, the Argentine head coach reminded listeners to his interview of the criticism the 1986 squad he was part of received before going to Mexico.

“I want to instill a higher belief in my players because I think there is more talent here than we had in 1986. I have great confidence in the boys and people can’t tell me anything different. If I have to take some risks then I will take those risks.”

Milano84 said:

he was listing accomplishments by age of 22

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Dude!? Brah?! Way to screw me over. I knew that(was trying to get some fatronaldo bashing going on).

Wet Ones said:

Cruzeiro

• Minas Gerais State League: 1994
• Brazil Cup: 1993

PSV Eindhoven

• KNVB Cup: 1996

Barcelona

• Spanish Cup: 1997
• UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 1997
• Spanish Supercup: 1996

Internazionale

• UEFA Cup: 1998

National team

• FIFA World Cup: 1994, runner-up 1998
• Copa América: 1997, runner-up 1995
• FIFA Confederations Cup: 1997
• 1996 Summer Olympics: Bronze medal

Individual

• Supercopa Libertadores Top Scorer: 1993-94
• Campeonato Mineiro Top Scorer: 1993-94
• Campeonato Mineiro Team of The Year: 1994
• Eredivisie Top Scorer: 1994-95
• La Liga Top Scorer: 1996-97
• European Golden Boot: 1996-97
• Don Balón Award La Liga Foreign Player of the Year: 1996-97
• Copa América Final Most Valuable Player: 1997
• Copa América Most Valuable Player: 1997
• Confederations Cup All-Star Team: 1997
• Cup Winners Cup Final Most Valuable Player: 1997
• Cup Winners Cup Top Goal Scorer: 1996-1997
• IFFHS World's Top Goal Scorer of the Year: 1997
• UEFA Most Valuable Player: 1997-98
• Serie A Footballer of the Year: 1997-98
• Serie A Foreign Footballer of the Year: 1997-98
• UEFA Best Forward: 1997-98
• Bravo Award : 1995, 1997, 1998
• FIFA World Cup Golden Ball: 1998
• UEFA Cup Final Most Valuable Player: 1998
• Copa América All-Star Team: 1997
• FIFA World Player of the Year: 1996, 1997
• Ballon D'or: 1997
• World Soccer Magazine World Player of The Year: 1996,1997
• Onze d'Or: 1997
• FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 1998
• La Liga South American Player of the Year: 1996-97
• Serie A Player of the Decade: 1997-2007
• FIFA World Cup All-Time Scoring Leader

All this while being in teams that didn't have half as good players as Messi's Barca has/had.



Messi who?

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why do you guys compare Messi to Ronaldo? or even Maradona, lets compare Messi with the current crop of players.

When messi is 30 or past his prime, we'll look back and see who was the better player.

what WILD is saying is that not one player has one everytinh in club football at the age of 21 who had a huge part in the team winning it.

messi is not as great as maradonna. ronaldo (real), zidane or pele. if and thst a big if he keeps playing like he does and keeps winning for the nest 5 years he can be grouped with them, if he manages to win the world cup he will outplace them as the worlds greatest.

milan fans, if he was playing for us and having these performances all of ye would be drooling over him and would have no doub that he could be the world greatest.

he is the best this year as he was last year.zidane and ronaldo won world player of the year 3 times. this year messi is most likley to win it again at the age of 22. he has a wc to play in, mardoona at 22 went to the world cup and failed.once again no one is saying he is better than maradonna ronaldo etc. they are saying he has the potential to become better.

i cant believe people are saying that back then defenders were better, yes back then u would only get a free kick if u broke something, but who in gods name does that have to do with messi, what is he meant to go back in time ffs.cop the fuck on.

the lad is 22 still has a long journey ahead of him, just sit back and enjoy. if your a true football fan u will just sit back and enjoy, what this lad does and what barcelona as a team do.

Wet Ones said:

Cruzeiro

• Minas Gerais State League: 1994
• Brazil Cup: 1993

PSV Eindhoven

• KNVB Cup: 1996

Barcelona

• Spanish Cup: 1997
• UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 1997
• Spanish Supercup: 1996

Internazionale

• UEFA Cup: 1998

National team

• FIFA World Cup: 1994, runner-up 1998
• Copa América: 1997, runner-up 1995
• FIFA Confederations Cup: 1997
• 1996 Summer Olympics: Bronze medal

Individual

• Supercopa Libertadores Top Scorer: 1993-94
• Campeonato Mineiro Top Scorer: 1993-94
• Campeonato Mineiro Team of The Year: 1994
• Eredivisie Top Scorer: 1994-95
• La Liga Top Scorer: 1996-97
• European Golden Boot: 1996-97
• Don Balón Award La Liga Foreign Player of the Year: 1996-97
• Copa América Final Most Valuable Player: 1997
• Copa América Most Valuable Player: 1997
• Confederations Cup All-Star Team: 1997
• Cup Winners Cup Final Most Valuable Player: 1997
• Cup Winners Cup Top Goal Scorer: 1996-1997
• IFFHS World's Top Goal Scorer of the Year: 1997
• UEFA Most Valuable Player: 1997-98
• Serie A Footballer of the Year: 1997-98
• Serie A Foreign Footballer of the Year: 1997-98
• UEFA Best Forward: 1997-98
• Bravo Award : 1995, 1997, 1998
• FIFA World Cup Golden Ball: 1998
• UEFA Cup Final Most Valuable Player: 1998
• Copa América All-Star Team: 1997
• FIFA World Player of the Year: 1996, 1997
• Ballon D'or: 1997
• World Soccer Magazine World Player of The Year: 1996,1997
• Onze d'Or: 1997
• FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 1998
• La Liga South American Player of the Year: 1996-97
• Serie A Player of the Decade: 1997-2007
• FIFA World Cup All-Time Scoring Leader

All this while being in teams that didn't have half as good players as Messi's Barca has/had.



Messi who?

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Hmmm on a club level I think he won also one La Liga tittle with Real right?

Anyways on a club level if you see Ronaldo hasn't won a lot of trophies. On a personal and NT level he has won tons of awards...

He has not won the CL which can be considered a minus for him

akewander said:

what WILD is saying is that not one player has one everytinh in club football at the age of 21 who had a huge part in the team winning it.

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Thank u very much.
In 1 season he won more than any player in the history of football even if u count all they won till they r 21 & his one season & thats include Maradona , Zidane & Ronaldo & I dare to say combined so when u count his previous season u will have an

Wet Ones said:

Cruzeiro

• Minas Gerais State League: 1994
• Brazil Cup: 1993

PSV Eindhoven

• KNVB Cup: 1996

Barcelona

• Spanish Cup: 1997
• UEFA Cup Winners' Cup: 1997
• Spanish Supercup: 1996

Internazionale

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Ronaldo born on 1976 & my point is comparing him with what Messi won till last season so any title Ronaldo won after 1997 is irrelevant.
Wuhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa , Ronaldo won 2 cups in all mighty defensive league Hollnd & couple of cups in Spain + UEFA cup winners ROFL
Its sure bigger than CLs - league titles in Spain - super cups - club world cup.
And am not gonna even argue about Ronaldo's contribution during the 1994 world cup

Again , what u r stating have nothing to do with my point.
U r making me sound like I dont like or appreciate Ronaldo , Maradona & Zidane also u make me look like am over hyping Messi but it isnt close to what I ever said.

akewander said:

if your a true football fan u will just sit back and enjoy, what this lad does and what barcelona as a team do.

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exactly my thoughts!
i'm enjoying the football moments with Messi.
I don't care what team he plays for and if he's better than M,R or P
I love the game!!!

Ronaldo groupies have found a new thread.

Wild said:

Ronaldo born on 1976 & my point is comparing him with what Messi won till last season so any title Ronaldo won after 1997 is irrelevant.

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Why is it irrelevant?

He turned 22 on Sep 1998 and remained 22 till Sep 1999. So any achievements from the 97-98 & the 98-99 season will and should be counted.

Wild said:

Wuhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa , Ronaldo won 2 cups in all mighty defensive league Hollnd & couple of cups in Spain + UEFA cup winners ROFL
Its sure bigger than CLs - league titles in Spain - super cups - club world cup.
And am not gonna even argue about Ronaldo's contribution during the 1994 world cup

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Wild said:

I dont care about the circumstances.
@ age of 22 no player in the world achieved more than Messi.

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I don't see ANY mention of important achievements. You said 'achieved more'. Eating the most number of hot dogs in a minute can also be classified as an achievement. So Ronaldo still pwns Messi. In fact if you consider who Ronaldo was banging at that age , Messi just has no chance.






But here's a genuine question for you wild. Let's talk about Messi the 'individual'. Fuck the achievements. Let's talk about the player. Is he as good as Maradona was? Can you even compare him to Ronaldo? If you had the choice to pick one, at their peak, would you pick Messi?

My bad about the age thought Messi is 1 year younger.

Wet Ones said:

I don't see ANY mention of important achievements.

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Thats my statement , I never said Messi > Ronaldo @ age 22-23.
I said what he has won is more than Ronaldo & Maradona & any other player in history @ that particular age.

Wet Ones said:

But here's a genuine question for you wild. Let's talk about Messi the 'individual'. Fuck the achievements. Let's talk about the player. Is he as good as Maradona was? Can you even compare him to Ronaldo? If you had the choice to pick one, at their peak, would you pick Messi?

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I would pick Ronaldo , MVB & Zidane before Maradona not to mention Messi.
But that isnt what we r discussing.
It a personal opinion + it has a lot to do with the way u r gonna play + what players u need.

Wild said:

My bad about the age thought Messi is 1 year younger.

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Messi will be 23 this June

Wild said:

I would pick Ronaldo , MVB & Zidane

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Thank you. Perfect. Now I don't care what you say

Messi is great! Amongst all his mate in d under 20 WC, he's d only one who's making sense.
Bt messi wld b my last option if I had d power to bring players to serie A sides bcuz hs one-man-show style of play wld keep him in hospital for 5yrs (if nt more). He's game wld only make sense in spain, england & others and if u play everywhere else & dnt touch serie A ( forget what ever they are ranking on that world clubs table), you still haven't played football. Check it!

Wet Ones said:

Thank you. Perfect. Now I don't care what you say

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I entered the argument only coz ppl were saying CR>>>>>>>Messi like the latter is just another good player.

The thing about Ronaldo is that '98 aside he was generally the same brilliant player anywhere he played. messi has been remarkably sheltered at bartha. He's practically grown up there. He has had YEARS to aclimatise to their style of play no wonder it comes so naturally to him. People can minimize brazil's 2002 triumph all they want but NOBODY can dispute Ronaldo's personal accomplishment at being the topscorer of the tournament, equalling Pele's record and most importantly of all returning from a place where he was written off -all done at a fraction of his true ability. CR9, Kaka, Ronaldo etc have all had to adjust to different leagues, playing style, defenses. Messi grew up watching Xavi and co play so he KNOWS how and where to run. Messi in Argentina<Messi @Bartha. It reminds me of how Henry looked like a god in Arsenal but was fairly disappointing for France. Neither is he that great in Bartha. Again put a fit Ronaldo ANYWHERE and he'll rape (insert name). Even Maradonna wasn't that great at Bartha. The fact that even the great Diego didn't do as well in Spain is not an indictment in any way on his status as the best ever. Rather it illustrates that Messi's performances and hence ratings may be artificially inflated due to circumstances. Again in conclusion until Messi can prove himself outside his cushy bartha environment and performs creditably the crown of king remains lodged on RONALDO'S head

drucurl said:

Messi grew up watching Xavi and co play so he KNOWS how and where to run. Messi in Argentina<Messi @Bartha. It reminds me of how Henry looked like a god in Arsenal but was fairly disappointing for France. Neither is he that great in Bartha. Again put a fit Ronaldo ANYWHERE and he'll rape (insert name). Even Maradonna wasn't that great at Bartha. The fact that even the great Diego didn't do as well in Spain is not an indictment in any way on his status as the best ever. Rather it illustrates that Messi's performances and hence ratings may be artificially inflated due to circumstances. Again in conclusion until Messi can prove himself outside his cushy bartha environment and performs creditably the crown of king remains lodged on RONALDO'S head

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you're making a valid point, but you're talking about real Ronaldo, don't you?

Wild said:

I entered the argument only coz ppl were saying CR>>>>>>>Messi like the latter is just another good player.

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No one was saying anything that. Everyone knows that the 2 best players in the world are Messi and Ronaldo. Whoever comes first is just a matter of opinion.

Wild said:

Thats my statement , I never said Messi > Ronaldo @ age 22-23.
I said what he has won is more than Ronaldo & Maradona & any other player in history @ that particular age.

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Fair enough.


but don't you think it's kind of a bs statement to make. He's just lucky to be on a great team. He is great player but I'm not convinced if you didn't swap him with other players barca wouldn't achieve same.

Do you have any doubt if CR was in his position Barca wouldn't have achieved same? What about Ribery/Robben and others??? I'm not sure... I know last year Xavi/Iniesta were on a different planet, Eto'o was healthy, Herny fit in, Dani Alves was a freak force up the right side. This doesn't discount Messi but he was just another cog in a well oiled machine.

And thats what bugs me about the media claims 'best ever' or people who post 'we r lucky to live in era of messi', when it's like are you kidding, he doesn't approach Zidane or Ronaldo or Ronaldinho in prime who I saw with my own eyes. Or even CR to me... Personal pet peeve i suppose

too bad he'll never leave barcelona and try in some other league..

first off, i dont get why some people want him to move and prove his worth somewhere else, why would a player who won everyting with his club and is playing the best football there is wouyld want to leave is beyond me, he is a barca legend, he doesnt need to go anywhere to prove anything to anybody.

xavi and inesta played great last year and the def helped th team, messi also played great last year, this year xavi and inesta havnt been that influential, messis goals against arsenal were all made by himself, his first a rocket, he second he mad the great pass that split arsenal, the third he put pressure on vermallen to get the ball and got the pass from keita and chiiped the keeper, his last he got pass 3 def and scored.

the guy has scored 4 hatricks this season, all that is missing from his cabinet is a worldcup, maradoona at 22 failed at the worldcup.

he hasnt reached ronaldo(real) zidane maradonna or pele, status but if he keeps going like he is and keeps winning cl, la liga titles and fifa world player of the year title he will most certainley outpass them.

de stefano didnt win a world cup, but he is right up there with pele and maradonna and best.

no one is saying he is the best ever, its far too early, all there saying is he has the potential to be the best ever.
he is now most certainley >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> critiano.

and yes we are lucky to be witnessing an era where a player can get past 5 def like there not there, people were lucky to se maradonna do it live why shouldnt we call it lucky to see messi do it

seriously, i dont know where ur hate is from , if its barca i hate barca aswell, but if ur a true football fan u cant help but love the football that is being shown.

i bet if he played for milan we wouldnt even be having this discussion

also xavi was around when ronni eplayed there, but no one mentions xavi back then.

Claiming CR is better than Messi is ridicules at this point. You don't need stats to see that, just watch them play.

Yeah ill just stay in denial till i see what he does vs samuel/lucio/maicon. If he flops ill keep on hatin and claim gaylord is better. Hes struggled vs clichy/gallas so hell probably do the same vs the best defense in the world

Milano84 said:

Fair enough.


but don't you think it's kind of a bs statement to make. He's just lucky to be on a great team. He is great player but I'm not convinced if you didn't swap him with other players barca wouldn't achieve same.

Do you have any doubt if CR was in his position Barca wouldn't have achieved same? What about Ribery/Robben and others??? I'm not sure... I know last year Xavi/Iniesta were on a different planet, Eto'o was healthy, Herny fit in, Dani Alves was a freak force up the right side. This doesn't discount Messi but he was just another cog in a well oiled machine.

And thats what bugs me about the media claims 'best ever' or people who post 'we r lucky to live in era of messi', when it's like are you kidding, he doesn't approach Zidane or Ronaldo or Ronaldinho in prime who I saw with my own eyes. Or even CR to me... Personal pet peeve i suppose

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+1, exactly my thoughts (and I still believe that the most important engines of Barcelona are the two dwarfs, Xavi-Iniesta)

Argh, seriously everyone is saying he has surpassed Maradona, just cause he scored 4 past Arsenal. It bothers me, Maradona made Napoli go number #1 in Italy ahead of a team that revolutionized football and had the best defense ever seen, that's 10x harder than what Messi is doing (he is great but seriously his also lucky to be where he is atm, he more than likely wouldn't have as many trophies).

dev1L said:

too bad he'll never leave barcelona and try in some other league..

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Uhm, although he has the added that he is part of their youth, I know Barcelona fans are the biggest assholes in the world with their stars that aren't catalunian (else Valdez would already been out). I bet that at 30 he will already be elsewhere.

manutd fan said:

The the 'lack' of great defenders topic, I guess it's because these days defending isn't seen as such an art as it used to be. Most kids growing up want to be the next Ronaldinho, not the next Maldini.

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If I ever have a kid, and in such case a son, my whole purpose with him would be to become the next Maldini, seriously if things keep like their going and he just turns out to be 25% of Maldini or Baresi or Nesta, he'll be a star wanted by everyone, and then everyone will overrate him saying "best defender ever".

crazy4milan said:

+1, exactly my thoughts (and I still believe that the most important engines of Barcelona are the two dwarfs, Xavi-Iniesta)

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Xavi is for sure. Iniesta not so sure.

This is Ronaldinho scenario part 2 all over again. I remember up until World Cup 06. People were saying Ronaldinho was the best ever, oh he better than Maradona, Zidane etc. Come World Cup time he gets found out for not being as good as the Barcelona system portrayed him as and all that best ever talk stop.

This is nothing new even C. Ronaldo was getting this hype during and after his 42 goal. Where I heard the same thing as I am hearing for Messi now. Best player since Maradona etc...

I bet you after the World Cup if Messi does not replicate his Barca form for Argentina and they lose; he will be label as over-rated by the same posters, pundits and journalist who were saying all this "best ever" nonsense.

Pedro said:

Xavi is for sure. Iniesta not so sure.

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Iniesta is a monster. He is EVERYTHING Milan lack. Self-less player, plays every position, moves brilliantly WITHOUT the ball. He is whereever he needs to be and IMO makes team function so well.....There really aren't players like him.

Also consider fact that spanish NT is much better with iniesta than with fabregas because of that reason

Milano84 said:

Iniesta is a monster. He is EVERYTHING Milan lack. Self-less player, plays every position, moves brilliantly WITHOUT the ball. He is whereever he needs to be and IMO makes team function so well.....There really aren't players like him.

Also consider fact that spanish NT is much better with iniesta than with fabregas because of that reason

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He sure is what we are missing, true.

I don't see how you guys can blame Messi entirely for his performances for Argentina. Maradona is a horrible tactician, and there have been consistent squad changes.
With the whole CR vs. Messi thing, I believe Messi is better. And Iniesta is certainly not the best player in the world. Xavi is the most important for Barca. Barca without Xavi are not Barcelona, but Barca without Iniesta are less potent but still Barcelona. No other player passes nearly as much and keeps possession as well as does Xavi does.

Also consider fact that spanish NT is much better with iniesta than with fabregas because of that reason

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You do realize that when Spain played with Xavi, Iniesta, Fabregas, Senna, Silva, and then Torres/Villa up top they were much better then when playing with two up top and no Fabregas? -> That's how they first lined up and their better XI was
And to all of the people who say "Xavi makes Messi look better than he is" of course he does. Xavi will make an ST/RW/LW/LF/RF look better but how many goals have been all Messi? The answer is a lot.