Spanish La Liga Thread (BBVA)

AC Kid · Mar 27, 2014

niceguy123 said:
i love diego costa, he is so awesome.

Strong, great goalscorer, very likable guy.

+1

NiceGuy123 · Mar 27, 2014

Mexes_5 said:
what the hell is likeable about Costa?

Guy is a complete knob

The way he trolled Ramos in one of the Madrid derbies was awesome. He intrigues me very much. Very good guy to have on your side.

Mexes_5 · Mar 27, 2014

Yeah to be fair that was funny, only because it was Madrid & Ramos though.

But he is very dirty, not too bad to have on your own team i guess, maybe like him then.

NIRossoneri · Mar 27, 2014

What a sad way to see Valdes end his time with Barca.

Dark Knight · Mar 27, 2014

NiceGuy123 said:
I love Diego Costa, he is so awesome.

Strong, great goalscorer, very likable guy.

Agree with everything apart from that. He is the sort of player you can only like if he plays for your club or your NT.

leaf said:
Maybe we're the old farts breh.....maybe football has passed us by and we're irrelevant now

Whatever the case...there were guys like Edgar Davids, Montero, GATTUSO, MALDINI, Stam, Nesta, Cannavaro (Ronaldo said he was scared of Canna though ) etc for the old guard...the Ronaldo's Ronaldinho's and Zidanes to beat....Who does Messi have to fight with? Only Thiago Silva, Kompany could even be mentioned in the same sentence with the aforementioned players.

People don't look at football holistically
1) Football is more commercialized than ever before
2) Because of #1, it is imperative that the game appeal to the n00bz, the casual fans Ashishes etc
3) As a result of #2, it has been tipped further in favour of the attackers
4) If you don't believe in #3...just take a look at how many and how quickly attacking records are broken today....just a generation ago...Messi's and CR7's goal tallies only existed in the lower leagues like in Holland and Portugal....nowadays substitute strikers score 20 goals per season. Penalties and free kicks are being handed out all the time every time. I'm pretty sure that Real and Barca on average get at least a penalty every other game. Even the fucking football is being geared towards the attacker. It travels faster, further and easier last world cup Buffon and co. complained about it. Journalists called it a beach ball....consider the evolution from a heavy leather water gathering sack it used to be in Pele's day

I agree with almost all of it.

When trying to make the current players the best evaaaaaaaaa .. they forget how it has changed in the favour of attacking play.

Offside rule changes.
Pitch condition (even though xavi still bitches about grass length everytime he loses

)
The football itself. (30-40 yard juninho style free kicks are so easy now- you just hit them and the ball keeps fucking swerving all over the place)
Getting free kicks, penalties is much much easier now.
People get red cards for stuff they wouldnt even get yellows for in the days of Maradona etc.
The back-pass to keeper rule change.
Quality of defenders has gone down the fucking drain. I mean even Kompany and Silva aren't same standard as guys like Nesta, maldini, baresi etc

leaf · Mar 27, 2014

Dark Knight said:
Agree with everything apart from that. He is the sort of player you can only like if he plays for your club or your NT.

I agree with almost all of it.

When trying to make the current players the best evaaaaaaaaa .. they forget how it has changed in the favour of attacking play.

Offside rule changes.
Pitch condition (even though xavi still bitches about grass length everytime he loses )
The football itself. (30-40 yard juninho style free kicks are so easy now- you just hit them and the ball keeps fucking swerving all over the place)
Getting free kicks, penalties is much much easier now.
People get red cards for stuff they wouldnt even get yellows for in the days of Maradona etc.
The back-pass to keeper rule change.
Quality of defenders has gone down the fucking drain. I mean even Kompany and Silva aren't same standard as guys like Nesta, maldini, baresi etc

The only thing is that I think at least Thiago Silva is in the class of the Maldini's and Nesta's. The problem is that the best defenders of today are often alone against not only great attackers but as we agree AN ENTIRE GAME GEARED AROUND MAKING LIFE EASIER for the attacker.

Make no mistate.....Even the best of the best got raped/owned and embarrassed by the best attackers of their time. Ronaldo alone destroyed everybody....but the thing is Maldini had Nesta/Baresi alongside him so that in the even he got beat...there was someone to cover for him....Kompany has fuckin Dimechelis :fp:

Silva isn't any better off either....So nowadays, top class defenders get and exposed more and worse than before....not due only to their own mistake but also due to lack of support from similarly able team mates and the nature of the modern game itself.

Even a guy like Pepe (or even Ramos for that matter) wouldn't get as much red cards as he does now a couple of generations ago.

Ashish · Mar 27, 2014

Mexes_5 said:
what the hell is likeable about Costa?

Guy is a complete knob

littlewing · Mar 27, 2014

leaf;2035218 Even a guy like Pepe (or even Ramos for that matter) wouldn't get as much red cards as he does now a couple of generations ago.[/QUOTE said:
Do you see a problem here or are you simply stating it as a fact?
I´m asking because i think that´s actually quite an improvement.
Think about van Basten for example, or even Kaka after 2007. Both players were the most fouled players in the league and were injured frequently because of that, van Basten had to retire early because of injuries.

So yes, there are more red cards given now but the point is that when a player is send off it´s usually justified.

leaf · Mar 27, 2014

littlewing said:
Do you see a problem here or are you simply stating it as a fact?
I´m asking because i think that´s actually quite an improvement.
Think about van Basten for example, or even Kaka after 2007. Both players were the most fouled players in the league and were injured frequently because of that, van Basten had to retire early because of injuries.

So yes, there are more red cards given now but the point is that when a player is send off it´s usually justified.

No I don't see a problem...I'm simply stating that it took something extra special to thrive back in the day. I understand attackers have to be protected...but now it's at the point where the system is easily abused

Senatore_M84 · Mar 27, 2014

leaf said:
No I don't see a problem...I'm simply stating that it took something extra special to thrive back in the day. I understand attackers have to be protected...but now it's at the point where the system is easily abused

nope

revisionist history

everyone wants to pretend it was better back in day.

crazy4milan · Mar 27, 2014

I've been part of the "it was better in the past", "they had it harder", "it took a special something"...it's been a long process for me to deal, but the thing is, we can't view today's things, with yesterday's glasses, you can't be nostalgic. It's different eras, you can't compare them. You can't compare football of 2005 with today's, and you couldn't with 1997's either.

Even the whole debate of Maradona vs Pele...geez, both come from very different eras, you can't really say who was better, they faced different rivals, different playing styles, different rules, different technologies...the important thing is that they revolutionized football, and against their rivals of the time they were the best.

jammin · Mar 27, 2014

Herbert Kilpin era used to play with leather balls. I don't see any of them getting any recognition in the best ever debate. These uneducated new-generation is so ignorant. :head:

leaf · Mar 27, 2014

Senatore_M84 said:
nope

revisionist history

everyone wants to pretend it was better back in day.

Bullshit
re-revisionist history

It stands to reason that the more something evolves in a particular direction, the more its characteristics are attuned to that direction.

Football is more commercialized now than it's ever been. With that commercialization comes changes....some positive and some negative. As I mentioned earlier, as the game evolves towards becoming an attacking spectacle for the casual fan, it's pretty obvious that adulterating the level of the defensive game would facilitate this.

Just 1~2 generations ago...it was the world class or near world class players that scored 20 league goals per season.....now they come a dime a dozen. You'd have to be a fucking moron to think that these guys can be compared with their predecessors simply because their goal output is similar.

The refereeing protects the attackers more
The Balls are better for the attackers
The referees are stricter about physical contact

I could go one and on but you are hellbent at disproving the obvious so I'll leave it here.

crazy4milan said:
I've been part of the "it was better in the past", "they had it harder", "it took a special something"...it's been a long process for me to deal, but the thing is, we can't view today's things, with yesterday's glasses, you can't be nostalgic. It's different eras, you can't compare them. You can't compare football of 2005 with today's, and you couldn't with 1997's either.

Even the whole debate of Maradona vs Pele...geez, both come from very different eras, you can't really say who was better, they faced different rivals, different playing styles, different rules, different technologies...the important thing is that they revolutionized football, and against their rivals of the time they were the best.

I think they did have it harder. Controlling a heavy-as-brick ball is much harder than these modern beach balls. Players at the top level are all guaranteed a great lifestyle. Racism is clamped down upon. Training has improved, as has medical care, diet etc etc. So a guy now who scores 20 league goals per season has it infinitely easier than your Batistutas, Henrys, Shevchenkos etc. Really it's nauseating to think of them in the same thought as the Sturridges, the Demba Ba's and the Higuains. Fuckin Yaya Toure already has 17 goals this year as a central midfielder ffs :rolleyes:

Senatore_M84 · Mar 27, 2014

leaf said:
Bullshit
re-revisionist history

It stands to reason that the more something evolves in a particular direction, the more its characteristics are attuned to that direction.

Football is more commercialized now than it's ever been. With that commercialization comes changes....some positive and some negative. As I mentioned earlier, as the game evolves towards becoming an attacking spectacle for the casual fan, it's pretty obvious that adulterating the level of the defensive game would facilitate this.

Just 1~2 generations ago...it was the world class or near world class players that scored 20 league goals per season.....now they come a dime a dozen. You'd have to be a fucking moron to think that these guys can be compared with their predecessors simply because their goal output is similar.

The refereeing protects the attackers more
The Balls are better for the attackers
The referees are stricter about physical contact\

on the flip side, most attackers thing the ball sucks, you can hit it faster but harder to be accurate.

-players are way more physical

-play is WAY faster

i mean it can go both ways, watch 1980s or 1990s games, not near the breakneck pace.

just compare speeds:

I think it goes both ways

leaf · Mar 28, 2014

Old article but it's basically my opinion on Messi

Belletti: Ronaldinho was better than Messi

Belletti believes the Barcelona team he formed part of between 2004 and ’07 was superior to Pep Guardiola’s current model, and that Ronaldinho in his pomp was better than Lionel Messi is today.

“I rate the team I played in much higher, principally because of the opponents we faced,” the 35-year-old, who scored the winner against Arsenal in the 2005/06 UEFA Champions League final, told SporTV. “We played against Real Madrid of [Zinedine] Zidane, Ronaldo and [Luis] Figo, Milan of Kaka, and a Liverpool team who were going through a great phase.”

Belletti, who left Camp Nou for Chelsea in 2007 and hung up his boots last year, also identified the key difference between the two Barcelona sides.

“We played with an established system, different to today’s team,” said the former right-back. “Now you never know how they’ll play. Sometimes it looks like they are using a three-seven [formation], with three defenders and seven players roaming about.”
Ronaldinho had opponents who magnified his peak even more – he was up against Zidane, Figo. Messi has much more help at Barcelona.
Belletti

When the debate switched to whether the Barcelona No10 he played alongside or the jersey’s current occupier was better, Belletti cited the class of opponents Ronaldinho was up against and Guardiola's current team being built around its Argentinian forward as the reasons for siding with his compatriot.

Ronaldinho joined the Catalan giants in a big-money transfer from Paris Saint-Germain in 2003, and inspired the club to two La Liga titles and Champions League glory. The mercurial Brazilian was named FIFA World Player of the Year in 2004 and ’05, before leaving for AC Milan in 2008.

Messi made his competitive Barça debut in 2004, and has since become a champion of Spain five times, Europe thrice and the world twice. The 24-year-old is fresh from seizing his third successive FIFA Ballon D’Or.

“Ronaldinho had opponents who magnified his peak even more – he was up against Zidane, Figo. He also earned me many titles.

“Messi has much more help at Barcelona. If I had to chose between Ronaldinho at that time or Messi now, I’d chose Gaúcho.”

I would like to include in that list Maldini and Nesta...even though both were past their primes.....He also destroyed Gattuso in the fake shit cheating Puyol diving to prevent-Sheva's goal tie

NIRossoneri · Mar 28, 2014

leaf said:
Old article but it's basically my opinion on Messi

Belletti: Ronaldinho was better than Messi

I would like to include in that list Maldini and Nesta...even though both were past their primes.....He also destroyed Gattuso in the fake shit cheating Puyol diving to prevent-Sheva's goal tie

Great post. For me Dinho was better than Messi, both were/are capable of unbelievable skill and leaving you in disbelief at what they can do, out of the two only Dinho could play in a way that would make you smile.

leaf · Mar 28, 2014

NIRossoneri said:
Great post. For me Dinho was better than Messi, both were/are capable of unbelievable skill and leaving you in disbelief at what they can do, out of the two only Dinho could play in a way that would make you smile.

R9 as well

vB9 · Mar 28, 2014

Agree... I mean u cant even say Cafu's name without smiling, I dare you, try it, impossible.

NiceGuy123 · Mar 30, 2014

Dark Knight said:
Agree with everything apart from that. He is the sort of player you can only like if he plays for your club or your NT.

He doesn't play for any rival teams so I like him a lot. Also have a classy man in Diego Simeone.

Diego Simeone + Diego Costa so awesome.

Rickaka · Mar 30, 2014

NiceGuy123 said:
He doesn't play for any rival teams so I like him a lot. Also have a classy man in Diego Simeone.

Diego Simeone + Diego Costa so awesome.

wat

NiceGuy123 · Mar 30, 2014

Simeone was awesome, loved him in Serie A back in the day. He's the type of guy you want on your team. I'm a fan of players who are willing to do anything to help their team and Simeone was that type of guy.

Also his trolling of Beckham in 98 was awesome.

Az. · Mar 31, 2014

Still A.Madrid won't win it, it will be between Madrid and Barca.

But yeah the system he has build there is awesome, i love a coach who can inspire his players to push themselves every game above their limits.

AC Kid · Mar 31, 2014

they're unlucky to play their last game of the season at camp nou, thats why they're not winning la liga. i mean they could beat real any day, but not barcelona, especially away from home....

leaf · Mar 31, 2014

A Madrid will never win because of the referees. They will have tons of legit goals disallowed and if Messi or Neymar get touched defending their own goal, they'll get a free penalty each time :proud:

Ashish · Apr 1, 2014

jammin · Apr 1, 2014

Shiturraspe :lol:

Naraku · Apr 2, 2014

Barcelona have been banned by Fifa from signing players for the next two transfer periods.

Jasper · Apr 2, 2014

Just after Platini took a snipe at Blatter - boom. Fifa shuts down Uefalona. #MesQueUnClub

necromancer · Apr 2, 2014

I just tweeted the same with #MesQueUnClub :lol:

Will this apply to 'fixed' but not executed transfers like that of ter Stegen? It should.

Huge move by FIFA.

jammin · Apr 2, 2014

Niiiice!

Spanish La Liga Thread (BBVA)

Who will win La Liga and which two teams will complete the top 4?

Real Madrid - Winners

Barcelona - Winners

Valencia - Top 4

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