Official Basketball thread(NBA; EuroLeague etc)

Senatore_M84 · Jun 12, 2013

Action Jackson :proud:

Shiby · Jun 13, 2013

Golden States head video-coordinator Chris Michael Thomas just joined our national team today.

Senatore_M84 · Jun 13, 2013

Shiby said:
Golden States head video-coordinator Chris Michael Thomas just joined our national team today.

heard about that. Cool!

I know we got a lot of good staff now, who is highly sought (see: Mike Malone, new kings coach.... travis shlenk, our assistant GM is a heavy GM candidate for a couple teams etc. etc.)

-

Since we got new owners in nov 2011, we've done a really good job hiring top notch people and bright people, which is key to success. Guys who can develop, guys who can scout, guys who can analyze.

That's how you're good long term in NBA. You'll always have ups and downs in terms of talent, cause talent wins. But a stable organization... like dallas since cuban took over, san antonio, Boston Celts since being bought by new group 10 years ago. etc. etc.

Senatore_M84 · Jun 13, 2013

If anyone hasn't seen or read Phil Jackson's quotes about Kobe v. Michael in his new book-

MJ vs. Kobe? Here it is from the man who would know best.

"Michael was more charismatic and gregarious than Kobe. He loved hanging out with his teammates and security guards, playing cards, smoking cigars, and joking around," Jackson said in the book, which was obtained in advance by The Times.

"Kobe is different. He was reserved as a teenager, in part because he was younger than the other players and hadn't developed strong social skills in college. When Kobe first joined the Lakers, he avoided fraternizing with his teammates. But his inclination to keep to himself shifted as he grew older. Increasingly, Kobe put more energy into getting to know the other players, especially when the team was on the road."

While Jackson coached, he often jabbed at Bryant's seemingly annual appearance on the NBA's All-Defensive team. Now we know why.

"No question, Michael was a tougher, more intimidating defender. He could break through virtually any screen and shut down almost any player with his intense, laser-focused style of defense," said Jackson, who coached Jordan to six championships and Bryant to five.

"Kobe has learned a lot from studying Michael's tricks, and we often used him as our secret weapon on defense when we needed to turn the direction of a game. In general, Kobe tends to rely more heavily on his flexibility and craftiness, but he takes a lot of gambles on defense and sometimes pays the price."

What about the part of the game where Bryant captivated fans by scoring 81 points against Toronto and 62 in three quarters against Dallas?

Jackson noted the "pronounced" difference in their accuracy, Jordan shooting almost 50% — an "extraordinary figure" — while Bryant had been at 45%.

"Michael was more likely to break through his attackers with power and strength, while Kobe often tries to finesse his way through mass pileups," Jackson wrote. "Michael was stronger, with bigger shoulders and a sturdier frame. He also had large hands that allowed him to control the ball better and make subtle fakes.

"Jordan was also more naturally inclined to let the game come to him and not overplay his hand, whereas Kobe tends to force the action, especially when the game isn't going his way. When his shot is off, Kobe will pound away relentlessly until his luck turns. Michael, on the other hand, would shift his attention to defense or passing or setting screens to help the team win the game."

And tats a HUGE reason i think Kobe is wildly overrated.

His %'s have never been improessive. His efficiency hasn't been amazing (like MJ, Magic, Bird, Durant, Lebron or any number of all-star bigs)

Kobe's skill level is high, but he would over force the usse, and it cost his teams.

Simplest way to put it, how many crappy teams was kobe a part of in his prime? Not making playoffs. 44 win teams etc.

Compare that to Lebron in cleveland who played w/ crap and won over 60 twice and over 50 every year except his rookie.

-

There is something to be said for Kobe's no fear attitude. BUT at same time....no player is hot all the time. MJ had horrible shooting games, Lebron did too, so did Kobe (kobe had more), that's just reality, you aint going 12-20 every game.

MJ and Bron find ways to get others continually involved and focus on other aspects more than Kobe did who would have no problem going 6-27. Where that hurts is he does it when he has REAL weapons to hit. Pau's an all star, Bynum was an all star, Odom, Shaq, he's had shooters, Dwight can finish and on and on.

Madridista · Jun 13, 2013

Great analysis from the zen. Kobe is just an amazing player to watch because he uses that skill and finesse to compensate for the fact that he isn't physically gifted as Lebron or MJ (also the fact that Lebron is a unique physical specimen doesnt make him a better player than Jordan).

Kobe is just a different kind of player than Lebron in every aspect. saying his overrated makes you look ridiculous, the guy is a legend.

Senatore_M84 · Jun 13, 2013

Madridista said:
Great analysis from the zen. Kobe is just an amazing player to watch because he uses that skill and finesse to compensate for the fact that he isn't physically gifted as Lebron or MJ (also the fact that Lebron is a unique physical specimen doesnt make him a better player than Jordan).

Kobe is just a different kind of player than Lebron in every aspect. saying his overrated makes you look ridiculous, the guy is a legend.

overrated only in fact i don't think he's top 10-15 all time.

Still a first ballot hall of famer. And of his generation, only players I say without a doubt are first ballot are him, duncan, manu (you count international), KG.... maybe peirce and allen also first ballot (obviously guys like parker, shaq, but i don't quite count them as his generation, I'm thinking guys born like... 76-80)

-

There's one quote the article didn't put but i think it sums up kobe

"Kobe is one of 'hottest players ive ever seen. And he'll search for that constantly, often at detriment of team"

That's true. when Kobe is ON, I mean 81 is 81. Don't care who it's against. BUT at same time, you live with an insane amount of 7-27 games, which, if he doesn't have the best rebounding team in NBA to clean up and score (Lakers during title teams always among leaders in offensive boards) you won't be a good team.

Where as someone with more willingness to facilitate if his shot aint going, will look to pass, feed hot hands and get team easy buckets other ways than his own shot, and get wins

Senatore_M84 · Jun 13, 2013

interview w/ Warriors assistant GM at Trevisio Eurocamp scouting draft-

interview w/ memphis GM at same camp-

interesting

Redman10 · Jun 13, 2013

Kobe is overrated depending on who your comparing him too. If your going to label him the best Laker of all-time, he's overrated, if your going to put him in the Jordan category, his overrated.

Top 10 player of all time is subjective. I do see a lot of pundits and analysis put him there though. If you factor in longevity, championships (and he did contribute in there championship runs, I remember certain series like in the Western conference finals where it was the Kobe show.) his talent and ability, stats IMO he would make a top ten list. Top 5 is stretching it but a top 10 isn't unrealistic.

Senatore_M84 · Jun 13, 2013

This is great-

interviewer- "what did you learn about being Karl's roomate?"
Barkley- "He Snores!"

"Karl is a black redneck"- Barkley :lol:

WOOO I FOUND IT!!!! This is really good. non-americans who havent seen-

Axl · Jun 13, 2013

Senatore_M84 said:
overrated only in fact i don't think he's top 10-15 all time.

Still a first ballot hall of famer. And of his generation, only players I say without a doubt are first ballot are him, duncan, manu (you count international), KG.... maybe peirce and allen also first ballot (obviously guys like parker, shaq, but i don't quite count them as his generation,

I think Dirk's easily first ballot as well, he was even before the ring IMO.

Senatore_M84 · Jun 13, 2013

Wade 2011/12 playoffs-22.8 ppg, 4.3 apg, 5.2 rpg, .462%... 7.2 FTA (avg efficiency)
wade 2012/13 playoffs- 14.8 ppg, 4.8 apg, 4.3 rpg, .446%.. only 3.7 FTA (disgusting efficiency)

2011/12 finals- 22.6 ppg, 4.2 apg, 5.2 rpg, 8.0FTA
2012/13 finals- 14.3 ppg, 4.3 apg, 1.3 rpg, 2.7 FTA

EEEEESSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH

Axl said:
I think Dirk's easily first ballot as well, he was even before the ring IMO.

Totally.... and obviously nash/kidd

Sage · Jun 13, 2013

Senatore_M84 said:
WOOO I FOUND IT!!!! This is really good. non-americans who havent seen-

I'm so butt hurt I missed watching these players live :head:

Sasha · Jun 13, 2013

I think Kobe is definitely top 10. Russel-Kareem-Wilt-Jordan-Magic-Kobe-Duncan(if he wins the title this year)-Shaq-West-Hakeem

Senatore_M84 · Jun 13, 2013

Sasha said:
I think Kobe is definitely top 10. Russel-Kareem-Wilt-Jordan-Magic-Kobe-Duncan(if he wins the title this year)-Shaq-West-Hakeem

hands down lebron is a better plan than him for his career at only 28. But even if uou don't want to count him

Bird- better than kobe

oscar robertson- one of GOAT

pippen- better than kobe

Moses Malone- monster

DR. J- possible

Bob Cousy- yup

Rick Barry- yep

elgin Baylor- yep

isiah thomas?

John Stockton?

Karl Malone? Sir Charles?

I'd prolly take jason kidd dragging a disgusting nets team to finals over anything kobe did.

Madridista · Jun 14, 2013

out of that list, only Bird and Robertson are greater than Kobe. you are having a laugh

Senatore_M84 · Jun 14, 2013

Dude. Asish is at game 4 according to fb :eek:

Enjoy it big guy.

Don't cry after tho

Congo Powers · Jun 14, 2013

Senatore_M84 said:
Dude. Asish is at game 4 according to fb

whoaaa

crazy4milan · Jun 14, 2013

Senatore_M84 said:
Dude. Asish is at game 4 according to fb

Enjoy it big guy.

Don't cry after tho

So this is why he's been ashishing so much, productivity goes up when he's not wasting time around this place...more money

Either that or he was doing dodgy business.

Senatore_M84 · Jun 14, 2013

Madridista said:
out of that list, only Bird and Robertson are greater than Kobe. you are having a laugh

Lebron, barry, baylor, pippen and others have every bit as legit a claim.

maybe not barkley/malone, but iunno. I really don't think they struggle to win titles w/ shaq or pau if in their primes

Senatore_M84 · Jun 14, 2013

Miami finally playing closer to their tempo.

Still spurs are insane, w/ keeping miami off the line. Very good D

Congo Powers · Jun 14, 2013

this a great game rite now

crazy4milan · Jun 14, 2013

Seriously this thing is heading to 7 games. And Im not sure who'll take it. Both have amazing coaches that make the right adjustments per game, they study their rival well, like maniacs....and school them in the next game.

Sasha · Jun 14, 2013

Senatore_M84 said:
hands down lebron is a better plan than him for his career at only 28. But even if uou don't want to count him

Bird- better than kobe

oscar robertson- one of GOAT

pippen- better than kobe

Moses Malone- monster

DR. J- possible

Bob Cousy- yup

Rick Barry- yep

elgin Baylor- yep

isiah thomas?

John Stockton?

Karl Malone? Sir Charles?

I'd prolly take jason kidd dragging a disgusting nets team to finals over anything kobe did.

Ok. whatever you say expert. :lol:

leaf · Jun 14, 2013

Still think the smart money is on spurs
Stern wants his 7 game money

leaf · Jun 14, 2013

Senatore_M84 said:
hands down lebron is a better plan than him for his career at only 28. But even if uou don't want to count him

Bird- better than kobe

oscar robertson- one of GOAT

pippen- better than kobe

Moses Malone- monster

DR. J- possible

Bob Cousy- yup

Rick Barry- yep

elgin Baylor- yep

isiah thomas?

John Stockton?

Karl Malone? Sir Charles?

I'd prolly take jason kidd dragging a disgusting nets team to finals over anything kobe did.

Pippen?

Jason-the-only-thing-I-can-hit-is-my-wife-Kidd? :max:

Seriously I think you just try to have these controversial views to flex your debate muscles :rolleyes:

Redman10 · Jun 14, 2013

Miami big 3 were on point last night. The Spurs have no chance when they play like that but I doubt Bosh and Wade can keep it up.

Redman10 · Jun 14, 2013

Senatore_M84 said:
hands down lebron is a better plan than him for his career at only 28. But even if uou don't want to count him

Bird- better than kobe

oscar robertson- one of GOAT

pippen- better than kobe

Moses Malone- monster

DR. J- possible

Bob Cousy- yup

Rick Barry- yep

elgin Baylor- yep

isiah thomas?

John Stockton?

Karl Malone? Sir Charles?

I'd prolly take jason kidd dragging a disgusting nets team to finals over anything kobe did.

I understand you dislike Kobe and everything but this is ridiculous even for your standards. I mean have you even seen the likes of Bob Cousy play. Some of the players on that list would say you having a piss.

Senatore_M84 · Jun 14, 2013

I notice. Posts only come when heat lose

So much haterade. Just looking to hate

Senatore_M84 · Jun 14, 2013

leaf said:
Still think the smart money is on spurs
Stern wants his 7 game money

It might be. I said heat in 7. It's not like I have surpreme confident in that.

I doubt the heats health still. One game doesn't convince me wades healthy

Sage · Jun 14, 2013

Senatore_M84 said:
I notice. Posts only come when heat lose

So much haterade. Just looking to hate

tbf heat deserved nothing but hate after their showing in game 3

they did good last night, you just never know when bosh and wade will turn up. :fp:

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