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Old 21-06-2011, 05:49   #1201
fertygo
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Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
Just throwing isaiah in there to confuse you a bit. IMO Hakeem isn't top 10. Top 15 yes, and there is no shame in that.
Hakeem winning without elite support, that's need to count for something IMO

And his talent just over the chart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2nJ618F-3Q

Its difficult to name player that better than him.


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Originally Posted by Leonardo
"Right now it would be like betraying my history, my past with the Rossoneri. It's been a short period of time, and I'm still very close to Milan. Now it would be too difficult to work in Italy, maybe in the future but not now."
- 22nd October 2010.
Two months later...
Gattuso : "Evidently the God of money can produce miracles."

Last edited by fertygo; 21-06-2011 at 05:51.
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Old 21-06-2011, 05:53   #1202
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The Dream was an amazing player. Again 25-28 points, 12-14 rebounds, 4 blocks a game... elite offensive arsenal, elite defense.

Best footwork of ANY big man ever (natural because he grew up a footballer). The things he did as a 7 footer, only Kareem was like him.

The teams he was on for bulk of his career were REALLY bad though. Fact he never got a 2nd banana like pippen or kobe (for shaq) isn't really his fault. Just poor management

I mean you do know who was on team who won it all right? Kenny Smith, Vernon Maxwell, Otis Thorpe, Robert Horry. I mean they are all good role players but not a single all star their

----

He was a level about Ewing and the Admiral. (both were great)


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 21-06-2011, 05:57   #1203
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I want to talk about 88-89 season. Doug Collins decided since MJ was by far his best player (at this point Scottie was in his 2nd year and hadn't developeD), he wanted to use MJ as a point guard. Jordan had never played PG in his life.

Result? He averaged 32.5 points, 8 assists, 8 rebounds, 2.9 steals. Shot 53.8% from the field and for those of who who understand efficency, he had a TS% of .614 (ridiculous for a player who takes that volume)

MJ could do EVERYTHING.


He was a career .497 fg%, and that's tarnished by 4 extra years when he was 38-42 coming out of his second retirement. He had 6 years in his prime well over 50% which is ridiculous for a guard or wing player

If you really wanna know, Kobe is a career .454 fg% and his career high was .469 a number jordan bested 10 of his seasons.


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
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Old 21-06-2011, 05:59   #1204
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Originally Posted by Senatore_M84 View Post
The Dream was an amazing player. Again 25-28 points, 12-14 rebounds, 4 blocks a game... elite offensive arsenal, elite defense.

Best footwork of ANY big man ever (natural because he grew up a footballer). The things he did as a 7 footer, only Kareem was like him.


He was a level about Ewing and the Admiral. (both were great)
Admiral is great player btw, but the fact he used to got ass raped by Hakeem and Shaq makes his reputation down a bit.

But that just tell you how great player like Hakeem, Shaq, or Duncan.


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"Right now it would be like betraying my history, my past with the Rossoneri. It's been a short period of time, and I'm still very close to Milan. Now it would be too difficult to work in Italy, maybe in the future but not now."
- 22nd October 2010.
Two months later...
Gattuso : "Evidently the God of money can produce miracles."
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Old 21-06-2011, 06:00   #1205
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senatore, dru, u speak truth about MJ.

but, regarding kobe, i have 1 thing 2 say. 81.
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Old 21-06-2011, 06:07   #1206
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Originally Posted by Senatore_M84 View Post
I want to talk about 88-89 season. Doug Collins decided since MJ was by far his best player (at this point Scottie was in his 2nd year and hadn't developeD), he wanted to use MJ as a point guard. Jordan had never played PG in his life.

Result? He averaged 32.5 points, 8 assists, 8 rebounds, 2.9 steals. Shot 53.8% from the field and for those of who who understand efficency, he had a TS% of .614 (ridiculous for a player who takes that volume)

MJ could do EVERYTHING.


He was a career .497 fg%, and that's tarnished by 4 extra years when he was 38-42 coming out of his second retirement. He had 6 years in his prime well over 50% which is ridiculous for a guard or wing player

If you really wanna know, Kobe is a career .454 fg% and his career high was .469 a number jordan bested 10 of his seasons.
Lets ignore the fact MJ barely shot 650 3PT on his career, n much of slasher than kobe, kay...

the fg% argument is the lamest bait when its comes to MJ vs Kobe debate

MJ >>>>>>>> Kobe, but no need to tell how MJ FG% is high when MJ playing like 3rd FC player on offense.


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Originally Posted by Leonardo
"Right now it would be like betraying my history, my past with the Rossoneri. It's been a short period of time, and I'm still very close to Milan. Now it would be too difficult to work in Italy, maybe in the future but not now."
- 22nd October 2010.
Two months later...
Gattuso : "Evidently the God of money can produce miracles."

Last edited by fertygo; 21-06-2011 at 06:10.
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Old 21-06-2011, 06:16   #1207
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Originally Posted by fertygo View Post
Admiral is great player btw, but the fact he used to got ass raped by Hakeem and Shaq makes his reputation down a bit.

But that just tell you how great player like Hakeem, Shaq, or Duncan.

admiral and ewing were great. It speaks to quality of centers now being down. I like Dwight, but I don't think he's on Ewing or Robinson's level just yet even and hes best center in NBA


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Originally Posted by fertygo View Post
Lets ignore the fact MJ barely shot 650 3PT on his career, n much of slasher than kobe, kay...

the fg% argument is the lamest bait when its comes to MJ vs Kobe debate

MJ >>>>>>>> Kobe, but no need to tell how MJ FG% is high when MJ playing like 3rd FC player on offense.
and kobe's a pretty mediocre 3 point shooter LARGELY CAUSE HE TAKES BAD SHOTS. .339% on 3's is below league average. If you can't hit about 36% it's considered an inefficient shot.

People can paint it anyway they want but MJ didn't take bad shots because he was good enough to always get in the right position. He was so strong and so skilled no one could keep him out of his spots.


BTW MJ shot 1778 3 pointers. where'd you get 650?


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 21-06-2011, 06:23   #1208
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Originally Posted by Senatore_M84 View Post
The Dream was an amazing player. Again 25-28 points, 12-14 rebounds, 4 blocks a game... elite offensive arsenal, elite defense.

Best footwork of ANY big man ever (natural because he grew up a footballer). The things he did as a 7 footer, only Kareem was like him.

The teams he was on for bulk of his career were REALLY bad though. Fact he never got a 2nd banana like pippen or kobe (for shaq) isn't really his fault. Just poor management

I mean you do know who was on team who won it all right? Kenny Smith, Vernon Maxwell, Otis Thorpe, Robert Horry. I mean they are all good role players but not a single all star their

----

He was a level about Ewing and the Admiral. (both were great)
Clyde the glide Drexler

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Originally Posted by Senatore_M84 View Post
admiral and ewing were great. It speaks to quality of centers now being down. I like Dwight, but I don't think he's on Ewing or Robinson's level just yet even and hes best center in NBA




and kobe's a pretty mediocre 3 point shooter LARGELY CAUSE HE TAKES BAD SHOTS. .339% on 3's is below league average. If you can't hit about 36% it's considered an inefficient shot.

People can paint it anyway they want but MJ didn't take bad shots because he was good enough to always get in the right position. He was so strong and so skilled no one could keep him out of his spots.


BTW MJ shot 1778 3 pointers. where'd you get 650?
Exactly....MJ was a ballhog too as well to be fair, it's just that he'd work his way into a comfortable spot then shoot. Kobe would kinda toss it up from anywhere. It was a great sight when he was hitting them though.
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Old 21-06-2011, 06:33   #1209
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and kobe's a pretty mediocre 3 point shooter LARGELY CAUSE HE TAKES BAD SHOTS. .339% on 3's is below league average. If you can't hit about 36% it's considered an inefficient shot.

People can paint it anyway they want but MJ didn't take bad shots because he was good enough to always get in the right position. He was so strong and so skilled no one could keep him out of his spots.


BTW MJ shot 1778 3 pointers. where'd you get 650?
shiet, wrong in looking number ... but the point stand, kobe shoot more 2000+ 3PT than MJ, attacking basket more than Kobe ever do in his career ETC.

And oh, MJ reputation as ball hog isn't better than kobe too before his 4th ring.


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Originally Posted by Leonardo
"Right now it would be like betraying my history, my past with the Rossoneri. It's been a short period of time, and I'm still very close to Milan. Now it would be too difficult to work in Italy, maybe in the future but not now."
- 22nd October 2010.
Two months later...
Gattuso : "Evidently the God of money can produce miracles."
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Old 21-06-2011, 06:33   #1210
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MJ and Kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Lebron James


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Old 21-06-2011, 06:37   #1211
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Originally Posted by drucurl View Post
Clyde the glide Drexler
Didn't get the glyde till he was 32 though . Imagine if he had him or someone else in his prime, they would have been up against MJ's bulls or maybe even lakers/pistons/celtics...

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Exactly....MJ was a ballhog too as well to be fair, it's just that he'd work his way into a comfortable spot then shoot. Kobe would kinda toss it up from anywhere. It was a great sight when he was hitting them though.
yeah it's not about being a ball hog as much as shot selection. You can hog the ball all you want if you're making them at a high rate.


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 21-06-2011, 06:41   #1212
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yeah it's not about being a ball hog as much as shot selection. You can hog the ball all you want if you're making them at a high rate.
Or if you hogging the ball ala Lebron in finals.


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"Right now it would be like betraying my history, my past with the Rossoneri. It's been a short period of time, and I'm still very close to Milan. Now it would be too difficult to work in Italy, maybe in the future but not now."
- 22nd October 2010.
Two months later...
Gattuso : "Evidently the God of money can produce miracles."
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Old 21-06-2011, 06:45   #1213
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Here's an interesting Michael Jordan quote from 6-8 monthd ago. Talking about playing now v. Kobe

"Based on these rules, if I had to play with my style of play, I'm pretty sure I would have fouled out or I would have been at the free throw line pretty often and I could have scored 100 points."

Oh, but he wasn't done. When asked where Kobe ranks on the all time list, the man most put at the top, told the USA Today:

"It's so hard to say... If you are talking about guards, I would say he has got to be in the top 10."
----

He's right. In Jordan's era play was ALOT dirtier. You could handcheck, you could be more physical. Now ref's call games a lot softer. Someone like Jordan would literally take 20 free throws a game like it was nothing.


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 21-06-2011, 06:57   #1214
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Originally Posted by Senatore_M84 View Post
Here's an interesting Michael Jordan quote from 6-8 monthd ago. Talking about playing now v. Kobe

"Based on these rules, if I had to play with my style of play, I'm pretty sure I would have fouled out or I would have been at the free throw line pretty often and I could have scored 100 points."

Oh, but he wasn't done. When asked where Kobe ranks on the all time list, the man most put at the top, told the USA Today:

"It's so hard to say... If you are talking about guards, I would say he has got to be in the top 10."
----

He's right. In Jordan's era play was ALOT dirtier. You could handcheck, you could be more physical. Now ref's call games a lot softer. Someone like Jordan would literally take 20 free throws a game like it was nothing.
NBA in 99-04 still recognized as the most tough defensive era though.

And player like Durant or Wade get FTA in Jordan range.. sure the call is frigging soft now, but the amount in substance isn't too much different.


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"Right now it would be like betraying my history, my past with the Rossoneri. It's been a short period of time, and I'm still very close to Milan. Now it would be too difficult to work in Italy, maybe in the future but not now."
- 22nd October 2010.
Two months later...
Gattuso : "Evidently the God of money can produce miracles."
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Old 21-06-2011, 07:04   #1215
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NBA in 99-04 still recognized as the most tough defensive era though.

And player like Durant or Wade get FTA in Jordan range.. sure the call is frigging soft now, but the amount in substance isn't too much different.
no. It's not

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/feature...ses/index.html

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"The first year, they took my hand check away," Rivers recalled. "The next year, they took our forearm away. And then, I retired. I was done. I was like, 'I've got to move my feet? I quit. This is no fun anymore.'"

For 13 seasons, Rivers made a very good living in the NBA as one of the league's best on-ball defenders. Tall (6-foot-4) and strong, able to use his hands to steer opponents away from the basket, able to clip guards moving without the ball from their desired routes around the court. But the style that helped his Hawks teams get to the Playoffs and that put his 1994 New York Knicks team in the Finals is now a relic, consigned to the basement in Pat Riley's head.


Using the forearm to defend players facing the basket went away in 1997.
go watch way pistons, lakers, celtics and early bulls played. The D was REALLY aggressive and dirty by todays standards. You basically can't touch a perimeter defender now by their standards


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 21-06-2011, 07:48   #1216
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no. It's not

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/feature...ses/index.html



go watch way pistons, lakers, celtics and early bulls played. The D was REALLY aggressive and dirty by todays standards. You basically can't touch a perimeter defender now by their standards
Its dirtier yeah, but still 99-04 era have toughest defense just check the defensive ratings in those years.

And even player like Duncan/KG shoot below/around 50%, only 4-5 team that averages 100 ppg, that era is when people said NBA is "boring"


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"Right now it would be like betraying my history, my past with the Rossoneri. It's been a short period of time, and I'm still very close to Milan. Now it would be too difficult to work in Italy, maybe in the future but not now."
- 22nd October 2010.
Two months later...
Gattuso : "Evidently the God of money can produce miracles."

Last edited by fertygo; 21-06-2011 at 07:53.
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Old 21-06-2011, 09:19   #1217
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Originally Posted by Senatore_M84 View Post
I want to talk about 88-89 season. Doug Collins decided since MJ was by far his best player (at this point Scottie was in his 2nd year and hadn't developeD), he wanted to use MJ as a point guard. Jordan had never played PG in his life.

Result? He averaged 32.5 points, 8 assists, 8 rebounds, 2.9 steals. Shot 53.8% from the field and for those of who who understand efficency, he had a TS% of .614 (ridiculous for a player who takes that volume)

MJ could do EVERYTHING.


He was a career .497 fg%, and that's tarnished by 4 extra years when he was 38-42 coming out of his second retirement. He had 6 years in his prime well over 50% which is ridiculous for a guard or wing player

If you really wanna know, Kobe is a career .454 fg% and his career high was .469 a number jordan bested 10 of his seasons.
Why this? Is someone saying Kobe was better than MJ?


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Old 21-06-2011, 16:09   #1218
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I don't think Jordan had a better shot selection than Kobe, he was just a bit more accurate. He was slightly better, but they have the same skillset.

The rules argument is overused and the difference between the impact of rules is marginal. Yes before the game was more physical, but my impression is that defence became a lot more tactical in the past years which compensated for the rules change.


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Old 21-06-2011, 17:58   #1219
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I don't think Jordan had a better shot selection than Kobe, he was just a bit more accurate. He was slightly better, but they have the same skillset.

The rules argument is overused and the difference between the impact of rules is marginal. Yes before the game was more physical, but my impression is that defence became a lot more tactical in the past years which compensated for the rules change.
You didn't just say that did you?


I mean I agree that they have the same skillset no doubt about THAT one but Kobe takes shots you KNOW he's going to miss
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Old 21-06-2011, 18:19   #1220
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Nah they don´t have the same skillset.
Kobe is poor man´s Jordan. There are similarities but it´s like dru said
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when you're drunk/high enough, he actually DOES remind you of His Airness
MJ was more athletic, a better shooter and smarter player.

People underrate athletic skills of Jordan. He was a monster.
And there is not one aspect of the game that Kobe is on par with his airness.


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