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Old 14-02-2020, 15:08   #641
Sognatore
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Originally Posted by Casualista View Post
Theres a debate going on when dudes' arm is almost hyper extended and he has stopped a shot on target?

It's a clear pen.

What happens in other games has no bearing on ours.

I'm quite used to really dumb Milan RBs.
What's your comment on Rizzoli's comments?


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Old 14-02-2020, 15:29   #642
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Lets not kid ourselves its all Ibra. Pioli deserves the sack end of season, for Atalanta alone.
Yeah I agree, Pioli is not the coach to go with in long-term. At least not if we want to make a serious CL attempt next season while attracting good talents to work here.

That being said I wouldn't say it's all Zlatan. He surely has his fair share as even at 38 years he still is one of the best players in the league, let alone in this team.

But I like how Pioli week after week found out how this team can come together. He benched Suso for Samu, began to bet on Rebic, ditched the 4-3-3 to recover some self-esteem and ó other than Sinisa some years ago ó was smart enough to know when it's time to let the 4-4-2 go and morph into... let's say the final stage of the transformation from Gattuso-ball to Pioli-ball (with the challenge of the GP mess inbetween). Which as for now seems to be a 4-2-3-1.

In other words: Pioli is laying a foundation more solid than everything we've seen in years. Whoever comes in will have to be very thankful to Pioli to set things up like he's currently doing.
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Old 14-02-2020, 15:39   #643
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Originally Posted by Sognatore View Post
What's your comment on Rizzoli's comments?
I'm unfamiliar. What did he say ?


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Old 14-02-2020, 15:50   #644
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Originally Posted by Casualista View Post
I'm unfamiliar. What did he say ?
Tiziano Pieri, former referee, who spoke at Rai Sport, stressed that the penalty kick whistled at Juventus should not have been awarded, also reporting an important precedent:

"when Ronaldo impacts Calabria's arm he is falling. I quote the words of Rizzoli, who met captains and coaches on 20th November, and commented an episode very similar to this one that happened at the league premiere at Cagliari-Brescia. If the player is shot he can't have any perception. On that occasion a penalty kick was awarded, Rizzoli in commenting with captains and coaches said that the one in Cagliari-Brescia should not be awarded as a penalty kick. They are very similar and even tonight he shouldn't have given a penalty kick."


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Old 14-02-2020, 17:30   #645
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Originally Posted by Casualista View Post
Theres a debate going on when dudes' arm is almost hyper extended and he has stopped a shot on target?

It's a clear pen.

What happens in other games has no bearing on ours.

I'm quite used to really dumb Milan RBs.
No, you are wrong.

The rules are based off of unnatural vs natural body position. Get off your ass and go jump in the air or try to change directions (Calabria was doing both). Your arms have to come out for balance. Add to that the close proximity and the fact that he knew nothing about the ball, itís very highly debatable.

For the record I can see why the ref gave it, but you acting like it isnít controversial is just flat out wrong. His arm is clearly in a natural position. For me it should come down to the ďdangerĒ of the chance. Fouls are called to ensure fairness, not to abstractly enforce rules. In my opinion Calabria didnít take away an obvious chance from them, Ronaldo was just trying to get something on the ball, it was probably not going to score or create a great chance. No harm no foul. But some would disagree, and thatís fine. Itís certainly subjective.

Keep in my mind my point to you is itís certainly a 50/50 up to discretion
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Old 14-02-2020, 20:12   #646
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Originally Posted by Balo45 View Post
No, you are wrong.

The rules are based off of unnatural vs natural body position. Get off your ass and go jump in the air or try to change directions (Calabria was doing both). Your arms have to come out for balance. Add to that the close proximity and the fact that he knew nothing about the ball, itís very highly debatable.

For the record I can see why the ref gave it, but you acting like it isnít controversial is just flat out wrong. His arm is clearly in a natural position. For me it should come down to the ďdangerĒ of the chance. Fouls are called to ensure fairness, not to abstractly enforce rules. In my opinion Calabria didnít take away an obvious chance from them, Ronaldo was just trying to get something on the ball, it was probably not going to score or create a great chance. No harm no foul. But some would disagree, and thatís fine. Itís certainly subjective.

Keep in my mind my point to you is itís certainly a 50/50 up to discretion
Awareness of the ball is irrelevant. If your hand is away from the body the ref is within his rights to give a penalty when the ball hits the hand. Especially if it's hyper extended.

And I don't believe his hand position is natural. This was a pretty routine cross and he dealt with it poorly and over compensated by extending his arm.


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Originally Posted by Sognatore View Post
Tiziano Pieri, former referee, who spoke at Rai Sport, stressed that the penalty kick whistled at Juventus should not have been awarded, also reporting an important precedent:

"when Ronaldo impacts Calabria's arm he is falling. I quote the words of Rizzoli, who met captains and coaches on 20th November, and commented an episode very similar to this one that happened at the league premiere at Cagliari-Brescia. If the player is shot he can't have any perception. On that occasion a penalty kick was awarded, Rizzoli in commenting with captains and coaches said that the one in Cagliari-Brescia should not be awarded as a penalty kick. They are very similar and even tonight he shouldn't have given a penalty kick."
Who is his advisor ? Ovrebo?


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Old 15-02-2020, 02:20   #647
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the ref is within his rights to give a penalty
[ X ] Other games have no bearing on an organic rules system
[ X ] Clear pen
[ V ] Ref is within his rights
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Old 15-02-2020, 02:49   #648
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The stadium is so fantastic! Anyone knows the song the whole stadium just sang before the team announcement?
Iím going by what they sang before Milan vs Juve when I went in Nov 2018...You probably heard ďche confusioneĒ. I love that song...and when thousands are belting it out, itís insane...



I doubt it was ďale ale Milan ale (forza lotta vincerai)Ē because youíd know that one.


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Old 15-02-2020, 07:32   #649
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Originally Posted by SuperP View Post
Lets not kid ourselves its all Ibra. Pioli deserves the sack end of season, for Atalanta alone.
Nah, let's not engage in stupidity.
Using your logic, Liverpool should've fired Klopp in his first season, for the 3-0 loss to Watford alone..
Not to mention that there was no improvement in results from Rodgers and they finished 8th.

Every coach makes mistakes and needs time to figure things out if there aren't any obvious solutions. Especially when they arrive in the middle of the season and inherit an indiscernible mess, which is exactly what Pioli had to face. Not to mention not everything is in the coach's hand. Any coach will struggle under certain conditions. Not every good thing about Liverpool or Inter is due to their current coach, and similarly, not every bad thing about Inter is on Conte.
Conte was hopeless when his Ibra(Diego Costa) - whom he fell out with - was replaced with a Piatek/ASilva(Morata) and Matic with Drinkwater/Baka. As mentioned above, Klopp had a very underwhelming first season with Liverpool.
Allegri's last season with Milan was even worse than Giampaolo's if we look at win percentage and points per game. He's renowned for prioritizing a strong defense, but the team conceded 4 goals against Sassuolo in his final game. He never found even half-solutions to the team's problems despite remaining until January.

Stability, continuity and patience will be needed to get out of this hell. If the coach isn't a major obstacle like Giampaolo, then keeping a coach for more than 2 seasons wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen.

Rewatch the Juve game in November and compare it with this one.
They were two very similar and good performances, with the main difference being that the team didn't waste all of the chances this time. Rebic found the net eventually.
There were also better individuals available this time. Samu, who was injured at the time, is an upgrade from Suso. Ibra has scored only twice in 7 games, but he isn't completely useless like Piatek when he isn't scoring. Rebic, who had fitness problems at the time and started off very rusty this season for Frankfurt and Milan, has stepped up and is superior to Hakan as LW.

Pioli presented a nice platform for Milan already in his first games in charge. It wasn't just some "genius ideas" someone had dug up from his Coverciano thesis or a Reddit tactical analysis of his previous teams. It was ideas that he was able to implement in a good way even with these not so ideal set of players, unlike Giampaolo. The team was playing well in most aspects, but they were being let down in some phases by certain individuals who were simply not Milan material. We've come a long way since then, as progress has been made in Pioli's search for the right personnel.
Tactically there's no substantial differences between the current team and the October-November side although there's been some tweaks and adjustment as the personnel have changed. It was called 4-3-3 in November, but in reality we had double pivots, Paqueta as CAM and Conti acting as a 3rd CB when Theo pushed forward and Ale occupied the LB/LCB zone. In other words it was just like now, except Hakan has moved in to the center taking Paq's place and leaving his spot to Rebic.

Should he continue next season? Let's wait and see how things evolve. If you've already made up your mind and won't change it regardless of anything then you're simply an idiot.


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Last edited by Goodfella; 15-02-2020 at 07:37.
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Old 15-02-2020, 14:51   #650
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Originally Posted by Goodfella View Post
Nah, let's not engage in stupidity.
Using your logic, Liverpool should've fired Klopp in his first season, for the 3-0 loss to Watford alone..
Not to mention that there was no improvement in results from Rodgers and they finished 8th.

Every coach makes mistakes and needs time to figure things out if there aren't any obvious solutions. Especially when they arrive in the middle of the season and inherit an indiscernible mess, which is exactly what Pioli had to face. Not to mention not everything is in the coach's hand. Any coach will struggle under certain conditions. Not every good thing about Liverpool or Inter is due to their current coach, and similarly, not every bad thing about Inter is on Conte.
Conte was hopeless when his Ibra(Diego Costa) - whom he fell out with - was replaced with a Piatek/ASilva(Morata) and Matic with Drinkwater/Baka. As mentioned above, Klopp had a very underwhelming first season with Liverpool.
Allegri's last season with Milan was even worse than Giampaolo's if we look at win percentage and points per game. He's renowned for prioritizing a strong defense, but the team conceded 4 goals against Sassuolo in his final game. He never found even half-solutions to the team's problems despite remaining until January.

Stability, continuity and patience will be needed to get out of this hell. If the coach isn't a major obstacle like Giampaolo, then keeping a coach for more than 2 seasons wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen.

Rewatch the Juve game in November and compare it with this one.
They were two very similar and good performances, with the main difference being that the team didn't waste all of the chances this time. Rebic found the net eventually.
There were also better individuals available this time. Samu, who was injured at the time, is an upgrade from Suso. Ibra has scored only twice in 7 games, but he isn't completely useless like Piatek when he isn't scoring. Rebic, who had fitness problems at the time and started off very rusty this season for Frankfurt and Milan, has stepped up and is superior to Hakan as LW.

Pioli presented a nice platform for Milan already in his first games in charge. It wasn't just some "genius ideas" someone had dug up from his Coverciano thesis or a Reddit tactical analysis of his previous teams. It was ideas that he was able to implement in a good way even with these not so ideal set of players, unlike Giampaolo. The team was playing well in most aspects, but they were being let down in some phases by certain individuals who were simply not Milan material. We've come a long way since then, as progress has been made in Pioli's search for the right personnel.
Tactically there's no substantial differences between the current team and the October-November side although there's been some tweaks and adjustment as the personnel have changed. It was called 4-3-3 in November, but in reality we had double pivots, Paqueta as CAM and Conti acting as a 3rd CB when Theo pushed forward and Ale occupied the LB/LCB zone. In other words it was just like now, except Hakan has moved in to the center taking Paq's place and leaving his spot to Rebic.

Should he continue next season? Let's wait and see how things evolve. If you've already made up your mind and won't change it regardless of anything then you're simply an idiot.
Great post. Ibra has scored 3 in 7 though.
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Old 16-02-2020, 02:57   #651
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Great post. Ibra has scored 3 in 7 though.
Thanks.

Yeah, you're right. I combined appearances from Coppa and Serie A, but forgot to add the one Coppa goal. 2 or 3, either way he's not our top scorer in the 2020 games and he has not been clinical. The point was that even an underperforming and wasteful Ibra is far more useful than Piatek.
Piatek had no target man qualities and his hold-up play, dribbling attempts and search for fouls were painful to watch. Even a 35 year old Llorente arriving this winter would've been like a gift from God.


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Old 19-02-2020, 07:13   #652
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