Official Combat Sports (MMA, Boxing, Kickboxing) Thread

Curupira

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I haven't watched any fights past 5 months. Not been up to date at all...Hopefully I'll be able see cormier jones event. Any input of the card would be appreciated.

Also, I remember GSP struggling with BJ Penns dexterity (one leg :eek:) and couldn't get him off balance but he still won those fights. And I ain't buying that grease gate bs lol.

That was second fight where BJ tried to use rubber guard but couldn't hold Georges down for shit. BJ would have lost anyways but Georges definitely DID grease.

First fight, BJ lost a split decision and it was really controversial because BJ did more damage in the second and landed crispier shots whereas Georges finished off the round with a big TK which in some's eyes won him the round.

On Cormier Jones, I hope Cormier beat dat ass
 

Curupira

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Fighters file class-action lawsuit against UFC

http://www.grosspointblank.net/features/fighters-file-class-action-lawsuit-against-ufc/

basically UFC getting sued by ex fighters for their bullying, business practices and pathetic pay (when compared to event revenue)

hopefully ufc loses and has to change the way they do business :o

Heres my take on the whole thing:

Fighters should be compensated for shit related to the fight. Fighters should not have to pay to get licenses, fighters should not have to pay for their cornerman's travel and hotel, fighters should not have to cover any medical or travel (food) related to the fight. And there should be a budget for fighter's preparation camp such as sparring partners, coaches, etc. that a fighter should get per fight. And if they stay with UFC for certain years/fights, they should get some kind of coverage in case they are really hurt once they retire (recent headlines of Darren Cruickshank's permanent eye damage - torn tear duct - should that affect him negatively, UFC should cover it).

But that's where it stops. Like in any other jobs, the company should provide enough for the employee (fighters) to do their job (fight). Rest depends on the value that the fighters add to the company. It sucks to say this but if a fighter provides no value for the company, why should there be a union forcing the UFC to pay at a certain pay scale?

Did anyone line up to watch Fitch fight? Did anyone care about Nate Quarry? Pablo Garza? Brandon Vera?

If anything, I went on beer/food runs whenever Fitch fought. Nate Quarry was a decent under fighter but when he used his title fight as an example, well back then UFC MW division was a fucking joke it only means that UFC was not legit so thats why he got paid so little. Brandon Vera had good fights in the beginning but was beaten by any decent fighters and had a snoozefest against Handy Couture. Who the fuck is Pablo Garza?

And last but not least, FUCK Cung Le. UFC always paid him really well and he has gotten a lot more exposure since his deal with the UFC. The only reason he is getting movie roles and endorsement deals in China is because of the events UFC was doing in Macau. Did he have any of that when he was with StrikeForce? Sure the UFC didn't handle his testing well, but to act like he was mistreated financially is just a joke. Not to mention, he got smashed the fuck up by Michael Bisping who just got tooled by Rockhold.
 
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Sir Crookodile

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That was second fight where BJ tried to use rubber guard but couldn't hold Georges down for shit. BJ would have lost anyways but Georges definitely DID grease.

First fight, BJ lost a split decision and it was really controversial because BJ did more damage in the second and landed crispier shots whereas Georges finished off the round with a big TK which in some's eyes won him the round.

On Cormier Jones, I hope Cormier beat dat ass

I'm only relying on my notes from back then but first round went to BJ for clipping the nose and making GSP bleed a lot. Second round was more even but thought GSP utuilized footwork and kicks much better.

3d GSP. Didn't see much controversy in that match. Maybe
I'll rewatch it one day.

--
What other names on the upcoming card, and predictions?

edit cung lee is bitching? :( I like him :/
 

damn

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Heres my take on the whole thing:

Fighters should be compensated for shit related to the fight. Fighters should not have to pay to get licenses, fighters should not have to pay for their cornerman's travel and hotel, fighters should not have to cover any medical or travel (food) related to the fight. And there should be a budget for fighter's preparation camp such as sparring partners, coaches, etc. that a fighter should get per fight. And if they stay with UFC for certain years/fights, they should get some kind of coverage in case they are really hurt once they retire (recent headlines of Darren Cruickshank's permanent eye damage - torn tear duct - should that affect him negatively, UFC should cover it).

But that's where it stops. Like in any other jobs, the company should provide enough for the employee (fighters) to do their job (fight). Rest depends on the value that the fighters add to the company. It sucks to say this but if a fighter provides no value for the company, why should there be a union forcing the UFC to pay at a certain pay scale?

Did anyone line up to watch Fitch fight? Did anyone care about Nate Quarry? Pablo Garza? Brandon Vera?

If anything, I went on beer/food runs whenever Fitch fought. Nate Quarry was a decent under fighter but when he used his title fight as an example, well back then UFC MW division was a fucking joke it only means that UFC was not legit so thats why he got paid so little. Brandon Vera had good fights in the beginning but was beaten by any decent fighters and had a snoozefest against Handy Couture. Who the fuck is Pablo Garza?

And last but not least, FUCK Cung Le. UFC always paid him really well and he has gotten a lot more exposure since his deal with the UFC. The only reason he is getting movie roles and endorsement deals in China is because of the events UFC was doing in Macau. Did he have any of that when he was with StrikeForce? Sure the UFC didn't handle his testing well, but to act like he was mistreated financially is just a joke. Not to mention, he got smashed the fuck up by Michael Bisping who just got tooled by Rockhold.

the issue is adequate compensation, if an event generates 10m should the fighters only get 1m-2m (total fight card pay) and the ufc keeps 8m-9m?
who do you want to see your money go to? the ferttitas, dana or the fighters?

a boxing show that generates 10m will see the fighters getting 6-8m easily

no ufc fighter in history has made more then 5m for a fight (brock lesner made 5m).....floyd mayweather gets 32m guaranteed every fight and will do a lower ppv buyrate.
when I watch a floyd mayweather fight I know floyd is getting the money....when I watch a ufc show I know dana is the one getting the money.

lets break down a ufc 200k payday
100k tax
20k manager fees
10k-20k trainers
10k camp, travel extras gym costs (paid sparring)

fighter takes home 50k :fp:
getting your face smashed in and maybe some brain damage for 50k :head:

when you watch milan do you want galliani to earn 4m a season or do you want the star player

sponsorship is also a big issue, ufc banning certain sponsors and then taking a cut of fighter sponsor money and now forcing all fighters to wear reebok shorts which means the fighters get no short sponsorship money :fp:
dana gets richer fighters get poorer

the way fighters have to give ufc image rights for ever to fight in the ufc is disgusting. sign one deal with ufc and they can use you in their games forever

there is also reports of ufc blocking other mma organisations from using certain venues, limiting their chances of getting a tv deal, warning fighters that they either do what the ufc says or they never work for them again.

also what is the purpose of a manager for a UFC fighter?
the contract points are non negotiable, you either accept the deal or you fight somewhere else for peanuts because ufc has a virtual monopoly.
ufc tells you who to fight and when to fight them and how much you are gonna get paid :fp:
ufc is the manager, promoter and de facto sanctioning body.

bellator is the thing that will save ufc in this case....ufc will argue it is an alternative.
whats bad for mma is bellator wants to follow the ufc payscale because it is the payscale in sports that gives the least back to the actual sportsman.
 

MilanMB

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is that also around the time mcgregor realised he was homosexual.....it normally happens around 5 years old I hear :devilcon:

at that age I didn't realise I wet the bed.....sometimes I still dont :o

sick of joe "ufc ho" rogan kissing cain valasquez's ass by calling him the greatest heavyweight in ufc history :fp:
if cain is the greatest heaveyweight in ufc history then the ufc heavyweight division has been pathetic.
since winning the belt in 2010 cain has fought the same 2 dudes (JDS and bigfoot) even getting ko'ed by JDS the first time :fp:

it makes mma look weak if cain is the best by beating 2 dudes during his reign and ronda is the greatest female by beating miesha tate twice :fp:

Real shit though :o

I don't even know what you're on about
 

Curupira

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the issue is adequate compensation, if an event generates 10m should the fighters only get 1m-2m (total fight card pay) and the ufc keeps 8m-9m?
who do you want to see your money go to? the ferttitas, dana or the fighters?

a boxing show that generates 10m will see the fighters getting 6-8m easily

Eh...where are you getting these numbers of boxing show generating 10m with fighter getting paid 6-8m? I have never seen this kind of numbers.

Plus, if UFC keeps most of the money, do you really think they just pocket it? Are you taking into account there are a lot of operating cost and also UFC has to pay to promote the fights?


no ufc fighter in history has made more then 5m for a fight (brock lesner made 5m).....floyd mayweather gets 32m guaranteed every fight and will do a lower ppv buyrate.
when I watch a floyd mayweather fight I know floyd is getting the money....when I watch a ufc show I know dana is the one getting the money.

Floyd is getting money, whoever he is fighting is getting money yes, but nobody else on that card is getting paid shit. Not to mention, Floyd still generate A LOT more revenue than anyone in the UFC.

lets break down a ufc 200k payday
100k tax
20k manager fees
10k-20k trainers
10k camp, travel extras gym costs (paid sparring)

fighter takes home 50k :fp:
getting your face smashed in and maybe some brain damage for 50k :head:

I already covered that I think trainer camp travel and preparation should all be paid for UFC to ensure their employees can do the work properly. This part of the reform I agree with.

when you watch milan do you want galliani to earn 4m a season or do you want the star player


sponsorship is also a big issue, ufc banning certain sponsors and then taking a cut of fighter sponsor money and now forcing all fighters to wear reebok shorts which means the fighters get no short sponsorship money :fp:
dana gets richer fighters get poorer

This is wrong. I forgot to mention this, UFC shouldnt be doing this.

the way fighters have to give ufc image rights for ever to fight in the ufc is disgusting. sign one deal with ufc and they can use you in their games forever

Haven't heard too much of this, but if so i agree, this needs to be reformed.

there is also reports of ufc blocking other mma organisations from using certain venues, limiting their chances of getting a tv deal, warning fighters that they either do what the ufc says or they never work for them again.

also what is the purpose of a manager for a UFC fighter?
the contract points are non negotiable, you either accept the deal or you fight somewhere else for peanuts because ufc has a virtual monopoly.
ufc tells you who to fight and when to fight them and how much you are gonna get paid :fp:
ufc is the manager, promoter and de facto sanctioning body.

Again, UFC is a company, they are in their own best interest to make money. Fighters who understands this and make themselves valuable (not necessarily the best fighters) have done well financially. Sonnen and Bisping comes to mind immediately.

bellator is the thing that will save ufc in this case....ufc will argue it is an alternative.
whats bad for mma is bellator wants to follow the ufc payscale because it is the payscale in sports that gives the least back to the actual sportsman.

Responded above in bold.
 

damn

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Responded above in bold.

look at canelo alvarez or migual cotto or even chavez jr for 5m+ paydays

Timothy Bradley's fight with JMM had Bradley earning 4.1m and JMM earning 6m guaranteed for a fight that didn't do many buys (arum was hopeful of 350k buys which i doubt it got near :lol:)

http://mmapayout.com/2013/10/arum-predicts-ppv-buys-for-marquez-bradley/

chavez jr was offered 12-17m for a 2 fight deal by arums top rank

jay z's roc nation just offered Keith Thurman (a guy that has never mainevented a major boxing show) a 3 fight, 2m a fight deal....he turned them down.


ufc pay is pathetic compared to boxing pay......why?
ufc does a better buyrate on average and sells more ppvs in total

you talk about ufc using the money for promotion but what do you think top rank and golden boy and other boxing promoters do?
they spend just as much as ufc.
these massive boxing promotions have running costs too yet they can still manage to pay fighters millions which is something for some reason the ufc cant.

about the floyd undercard fighters fighting for nothing myth :fp:

floyd mayweather vs maidana under card had amir khan and Adrian broner both getting 1.5m for separate fights
4 fighters on that card earnt 1m+ from 3 separate fights
how many ufc shows can say that?

I dont understand this love affair with the ufc
don king was a boxing promoter but no one misses him and he put on the biggest fight ever (culturally)

there is a great quote by legendary boxing commentator larry merchent about boxings demise
"aint nothing gonna kill it.....aint nothing gonna save it"

this applies perfectly to mma
aint nothing gonna kill mma, not the pride bankruptcy, not the strikeforce bankruptcy and not even the death of the ufc so why do fans act like ufc is mma and always have to defend the ufc

if ufc went bankrupt tomorrow someone else would just step up and take their spot.
 

damn

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looking forward to jones vs cormier
about as even a fight as you can get right now

got a feeling cormier might just pull this off.

think bones needs to stink the place out to win (leg kicks/front kicks standing and stalling tactics on the ground)
cormier's striking is pretty basic which could cost him against the much rangier jones.
 

seveners

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Curupira

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look at canelo alvarez or migual cotto or even chavez jr for 5m+ paydays

Timothy Bradley's fight with JMM had Bradley earning 4.1m and JMM earning 6m guaranteed for a fight that didn't do many buys (arum was hopeful of 350k buys which i doubt it got near :lol:)

http://mmapayout.com/2013/10/arum-predicts-ppv-buys-for-marquez-bradley/

chavez jr was offered 12-17m for a 2 fight deal by arums top rank

jay z's roc nation just offered Keith Thurman (a guy that has never mainevented a major boxing show) a 3 fight, 2m a fight deal....he turned them down.


ufc pay is pathetic compared to boxing pay......why?
ufc does a better buyrate on average and sells more ppvs in total

you talk about ufc using the money for promotion but what do you think top rank and golden boy and other boxing promoters do?
they spend just as much as ufc.
these massive boxing promotions have running costs too yet they can still manage to pay fighters millions which is something for some reason the ufc cant.

about the floyd undercard fighters fighting for nothing myth :fp:

floyd mayweather vs maidana under card had amir khan and Adrian broner both getting 1.5m for separate fights
4 fighters on that card earnt 1m+ from 3 separate fights
how many ufc shows can say that?


I dont understand this love affair with the ufc
don king was a boxing promoter but no one misses him and he put on the biggest fight ever (culturally)

there is a great quote by legendary boxing commentator larry merchent about boxings demise
"aint nothing gonna kill it.....aint nothing gonna save it"

this applies perfectly to mma
aint nothing gonna kill mma, not the pride bankruptcy, not the strikeforce bankruptcy and not even the death of the ufc so why do fans act like ufc is mma and always have to defend the ufc

if ufc went bankrupt tomorrow someone else would just step up and take their spot.
Examples of this please. I will provide mine:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/3/15/2053137/examining-pay-structure-in-boxing-and-mma

Edit: I'm not defending UFC, and I can careless if UFC went out of business. I was always a PRIDE fan anyways and I think the sport nowadays is boring. Nonetheless, I don't think anyone in the UFC is getting "underpaid" if you look at boxing card undercards fighters are getting paid 1.5k - 6k as well, which is what you see for the undercard fighters in UFC. Most main card fighters in UFC make at least 10k.

You also have to take into account that despite the recent boom, Boxing still has a larger market than MMA.

Regardless, if fighters don't like what they are paid, they can always go to ONE FC or Bellator. I already addressed the benefits and reforms UFC should look at. But TBH I don't think guys like Jon Fitch, Nate Quarry, or Cung Le should be getting paid more than they were.


If you are talking about TOP level fighters, then yes. Boxers get paid more because they get to keep more of what they bring in. But undercard level fighters, I think it's all the same.
 
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Az.

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Az.

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DC via fatality shadow death move by Seagal.
 

MilanMB

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damn :lol: u so silly

UFC best MMA/Fighting organization in the world.
 

MilanMB

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only thing i'm worried about is that every time there's a grudge match, the fight itself becomes kinda boring since no one wants to lose.

hope it's not the case this time.
 

Curupira

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:fp:

My old instructor GB Black Belt : "All the WWE talk and Cormier wants to take Jon jones down on the last round after loosing all 4 rounds, Give me a break!!"
 

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But it's true. I was disappointed with Cormier.
Jones ragdolled Cormier, takedown defended very well and then it didn't matter if Cormier turned the takedown-table. I listened to Cormier corner whole fight, he didn't follow any instruction whatsoever not during the fight not during break...

Jones fucking scary. Way scary.

edit: saw all fights. I shouldn't have done that..
 

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jones pls move to heavyweight and fuck those jabrones up

DC :fp:
 

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The fuck u kicks from Cowboy where great :lol: ..and the only good fight from this card.

The main even was disappointing, GUS is going to destroy Jones. The guy is great, but his reach is helping a lot to win fights.
 

seveners

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Disappointing performance from DC
 

damn

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Examples of this please.

all you had to do was type into google mayweather vs maidana payscale :rolleyes:

http://thesportsbros.com/pay-scale-mayweather-maidana-fight-may-surprise/


I will provide mine:

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/3/15/2053137/examining-pay-structure-in-boxing-and-mma

Edit: I'm not defending UFC, and I can careless if UFC went out of business. I was always a PRIDE fan anyways and I think the sport nowadays is boring. Nonetheless, I don't think anyone in the UFC is getting "underpaid" if you look at boxing card undercards fighters are getting paid 1.5k - 6k as well, which is what you see for the undercard fighters in UFC. Most main card fighters in UFC make at least 10k.

You also have to take into account that despite the recent boom, Boxing still has a larger market than MMA.

Regardless, if fighters don't like what they are paid, they can always go to ONE FC or Bellator. I already addressed the benefits and reforms UFC should look at. But TBH I don't think guys like Jon Fitch, Nate Quarry, or Cung Le should be getting paid more than they were.


If you are talking about TOP level fighters, then yes. Boxers get paid more because they get to keep more of what they bring in. But undercard level fighters, I think it's all the same.

what a lol worthy comparison. comparing espn and fox sport one shows to ufc ppv cards :lol:
espn pay 50k for their shows to the promoter
fox has a deal with golden boy but will only ever feature lower weight fighters or prospects in one sided fights. (i would say fox pays about 75-100k per show)
the only comparison that is worth while is the sho ppv card featuring cotto
ufc card has 11 fights boxing show has 8
and the boxing card still has much higher total pay :lol:

ufc card contains anderson silva, vitor belfort, forrest griffin, rich franklin, jon jones all ppv headliners while the boxing card only had cotto and an old washed up mayorga that have ever headlined a ppv :o
the boxing card will also only televise 3-4 of the fights on the card while ufc will televise 5-8

this boxing undercards dont pay is old nonsense spouted by ufc fanboys.

this year leo santa cruz got 750k for an undercard fight against a sparring partner :lol:

http://www.thesweetscience.com/news/articles/19320-leo-santa-cruz-bombs-out-sparring-partner-manuel-roman

lets look at a 2014 ppv which did a very modest buy rate. (and canelo was the only fighter to mainevent a ppv before this show)

Saul "Canelo" Alvarez will receive $1.25 million (plus ppv revenue) his opponent Alfredo Angulo, who will receive $750,000. (plus ppv revenue)
the same Leo Santa Cruz will get $500,000 and mandatory challenger Cristian Mijares will get $92,000. (this looks like tax book keeping here mijares would have got paid more)
carlos molina $275k jermall charlo $100k
jorge linares $50k his opponent arakawa $50k

that's 3m guaranteed fight pay from 4 fights on a b level ppv :o
or 1m for 3 undercard fights
http://www.boxingscene.com/canelo-making-125-million-angulo-receive-750k--75345

basically leo santa cruz made more money then both mainevent fighters on that ufc card in 2 separate undercard fights this year and one was against his own sparring partner :lol:
honestly have you ever heard of leo santa cruz? he is pretty much a nobody and he is getting paid this well :proud:

the boxing undercard fighters don't get paid is a myth and the ones that get paid low amounts are in glorified sparring sessions against jobbers in 4 round fights that they have zero chance of losing.
the promoter loses money on them fights just to build the confidence of his fighter up
 

damn

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what a crappy mainevent.

i've heard of dancing with the stars but had never seen dancing with the UFC :proud:
both fighters were clearly masters of slow boxing and Muay Tired :lol:

cormier never went for it at any moment in the "fight"
after all the smack before this is all he had
not interested in cormier after this :fp:

cm punk >>>>>>> cormier :o

puppet joe rogan with dana's hand up his ass "only rhonda roussey could beat bones jones"
jones will stay number one p4p mma fighter (unless rhonda beats misha tata again or Cain Velasquez beats bigfoot silva and JDS again :devilcon: )
 

MilanMB

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damn pissed off that players don't (supposedly) get enough money :lol: you really can't find anything else to moan about?

___

DC :fp:

Gustafsson is the shit. He won that fight :o
 

Curupira

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what a crappy mainevent.

i've heard of dancing with the stars but had never seen dancing with the UFC :proud:
both fighters were clearly masters of slow boxing and Muay Tired :lol:

cormier never went for it at any moment in the "fight"
after all the smack before this is all he had
not interested in cormier after this :fp:

cm punk >>>>>>> cormier :o

puppet joe rogan with dana's hand up his ass "only rhonda roussey could beat bones jones"
jones will stay number one p4p mma fighter (unless rhonda beats misha tata again or Cain Velasquez beats bigfoot silva and JDS again :devilcon: )


Like I said, I know boxing pays more what I am trying to say is not every UFC fighters get paid like crap. Not all of their fights are on PPVs either, some are on FOX, ultimate fight night and those events.

Regardless, the product they put on sucks, they don't deserve to be paid more. And the fighters that do put on a show, they are not the ones bitching about pay.
 

damn

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damn pissed off that players don't (supposedly) get enough money :lol: you really can't find anything else to moan about?

I watch mma for the fighters and they are the ones I want to see compensated properly

I don't want to see dana white, the fertittas, bob arum, scott coker taking all the money and leaving the fighters with virtually nothing.

I watched jones vs cormier fight because it was 2 top fighters and not because it was UFC 182
true mma fans feel the same way.
this fight could have been for any company and I would be interested so why is it that the majority of the money generated will go to the ufc?

DC :fp:

Gustafsson is the shit. He won that fight :o

not sure if gustafsson mark or jones hater :o
maybe both :devilshy:

Like I said, I know boxing pays more what I am trying to say is not every UFC fighters get paid like crap. Not all of their fights are on PPVs either, some are on FOX, ultimate fight night and those events.

Regardless, the product they put on sucks, they don't deserve to be paid more. And the fighters that do put on a show, they are not the ones bitching about pay.

they are paid decently but not when compared to the revenue generated by each event.

the Mohammed ali act (us law) stipulates that fighters on boxing shows have the right to know how much each show they fight on generates in revenue to ensure the fighters are aware of their drawing power and are not underpaid/robbed by the promoter.

mma does not have a law like this.

we can say a fighter deserves this or deserves that but surely how much a show generates is the real litmus test.

------------


if bellator decided not to replicate the ufc's pay structure and actually decided to beat them and not just do what the ufc are doing on a smaller scale they could actually change the game.

bellator is apparently trying to get Fedor Emelianenko to fight for them and if they had balls they would beat any offer the ufc make for brock lesner (reports suggest he is coming back to mma and ufc in particular)

broke lesner vs fedor would sell more ppv's then any available ufc fight.

bellator won't because replicating the pay stricture of the ufc is the goal of all mma promotions :fp:
 

Curupira

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they are paid decently but not when compared to the revenue generated by each event.

the Mohammed ali act (us law) stipulates that fighters on boxing shows have the right to know how much each show they fight on generates in revenue to ensure the fighters are aware of their drawing power and are not underpaid/robbed by the promoter.

mma does not have a law like this.

we can say a fighter deserves this or deserves that but surely how much a show generates is the real litmus test.

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if bellator decided not to replicate the ufc's pay structure and actually decided to beat them and not just do what the ufc are doing on a smaller scale they could actually change the game.

bellator is apparently trying to get Fedor Emelianenko to fight for them and if they had balls they would beat any offer the ufc make for brock lesner (reports suggest he is coming back to mma and ufc in particular)

broke lesner vs fedor would sell more ppv's then any available ufc fight.

bellator won't because replicating the pay stricture of the ufc is the goal of all mma promotions :fp:

That's fair.

TBH, PRIDE as well as K-1 Hero's paid fighters very well. I think ONE FC also give out healthy contracts as well. We will see if that will have an effect on UFC payscale.
 
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