The Rumour Commode XXX: Return of the King

[Alo88]

Originally Posted by VultureSheva

Samu Castillejo (very loved in this forum) has scored 6 goals and 8 assists since his arrival.

Hakan (who has many haters who lack objectivity in football) has scored 21 goals (many from outside the box) and 30 assists (often playing in midfield).

How many minutes did they play each since their arrival?

[VultureSheva]

Originally Posted by Alo88

How many minutes did they play each since their arrival?

You are asking why Samu wasn?t good enough to play more?

[TAZIO.N]

Originally Posted by Alo88

I don't think it's BS if someone like Mourinho implies this narrative more or less directly.

I don't know the truth neither, but on what insights do you base your opinion that this narrative can't be anything but BS?

I think it goes both way..Agents are just the executioner of players will.Besides,so far there's 3 players that I know that have balls to drop him,the other 2 is just happened in the recent time.If 3 of them can why not the other?They just simply need a will power to do it..No need any insight,the proof is there in front of our eyes...

[Alo88]

Originally Posted by TAZIO.N

I think it goes both way..Agents are just the executioner of players will.Besides,so far there's 3 players that I know that have balls to drop him,the other 2 is just happened in the recent time.If 3 of them can why not the other?They just simply need a will power to do it..No need any insight,the proof is there in front of our eyes...

That's what I always thought too. However there's many things that doesn't make sense to me of agents were really solely and only the executioner of their players will.

How else would you explain Mourinho, currently one if the most experienced, successful and straight-to-your-face coaches around, would weight the will of the agent exactly as much as the will of the club or the player?

I mean, yes of course agents get dropped at times, even Mino Raiola. But how many players do you know who have dropped Raiola and later in their careers transfered to a huge club like Real or so? I can't think of any spontaneously. I don't know if it's due to dropping Raiola. Maybe that's too naive. But it's a pattern still. I only know players who dropped Raiola and then stayed where they were or moved to China.

[Alo88]

Originally Posted by VultureSheva

You are asking why Samu wasn?t good enough to play more?

We all know he was head and shoulders above Suso. No need to open that debate.

[TAZIO.N]

Originally Posted by Alo88

That's what I always thought too. However there's many things that doesn't make sense to me of agents were really solely and only the executioner of their players will.

How else would you explain Mourinho, currently one if the most experienced, successful and straight-to-your-face coaches around, would weight the will of the agent exactly as much as the will of the club or the player?

I mean, yes of course agents get dropped at times, even Mino Raiola. But how many players do you know who have dropped Raiola and later in their careers transfered to a huge club like Real or so? I can't think of any spontaneously. I don't know if it's due to dropping Raiola. Maybe that's too naive. But it's a pattern still. I only know players who dropped Raiola and then stayed where they were or moved to China.

Mourinho is also right. Iinm,De Ligt originally want to play somewhere else(Barca I think) but Raiola insisted that he goes to Juventus.De Ligt pussied up and he lets Raiola decided his future.As the thing stand right now, it's not a very wise decision isn't it?

Meanwhile,Zlatan is adamant that he wants to go to a club that didn't qualify for CL in 6 years and becoming the laughing stock of world football because he simply loved the memory of being there not to mention he think that he can do the near impossible which is reviving the sick giant.And he's proven right at the end..

You see,2 different personality represent by one agent. Classic example of you are the master of your own destiny...

[mato]

Originally Posted by Alo88

We all know he was head and shoulders above Suso. No need to open that debate.

Hell no. We could argue if he was better than Borini, never Suso. Suso was limited, but at least he had some skills. Samu has none. Just like Borini. At least Borini had "grinta" which Samu also lacks.

[Alo88]

Originally Posted by TAZIO.N

Mourinho is also right. Iinm,De Ligt originally want to play somewhere else(Barca I think) but Raiola insisted that he goes to Juventus.De Ligt pussied up and he lets Raiola decided his future.As the thing stand right now, it's not a very wise decision isn't it?

Meanwhile,Zlatan is adamant that he wants to go to a club that didn't qualify for CL in 6 years and becoming the laughing stock of world football because he simply loved the memory of being there not to mention he think that he can do the near impossible which is reviving the sick giant.And he's proven right at the end..

You see,2 different personality represent by one agent. Classic example of you are the master of your own destiny...

Exactly. De Ligt didn't go to the club he wanted but was overthrown by Raiola. How is Raiola only the executor of De Ligts will in that case?

Zlatan is Zlatan. He loves Milan and the way he was moved to PSG left an injury never really healed. At 38, with his injury story after ManU and two years in MLS, no one knew how good he still could be. It was either ending his career or return to Milan and right what he never could end properly.

(or doing your friend Miha a favor at Bologna)

[VultureSheva]

Sky: Donnarumma and Romagnoli are expected to start for Italy against Poland in the Nations League.

[Alo88]

Originally Posted by mato

Hell no. We could argue if he was better than Borini, never Suso. Suso was limited, but at least he had some skills. Samu has none. Just like Borini. At least Borini had "grinta" which Samu also lacks.

Hell yes if you look at the Suso of past two years (since Samu arrived in 2018).

Once we finally had a coach with the guts to drop Suso for Samu our game instantly improved as well as the results. Coincidence? Now that's a hell no.

Moreover, in our run of 25 consecutive games without a loss, Samu has been integral, especially in post lockdown. Maybe not with tons of goals and assists. But football is more than only goals and assists.

Samu is no worldbeater, that's no debate. But he contributed more than Suso in the past two years, that's a given.

[VultureSheva]

Suso always had more talent in his legs than Samu, but Suso’s football style was shit, I hated the fact this average player was managing our game.

[TAZIO.N]

Originally Posted by Alo88

Exactly. De Ligt didn't go to the club he wanted but was overthrown by Raiola. How is Raiola only the executor of De Ligts will in that case?

Zlatan is Zlatan. He loves Milan and the way he was moved to PSG left an injury never really healed. At 38, with his injury story after ManU and two years in MLS, no one knew how good he still could be. It was either ending his career or return to Milan and right what he never could end properly.

(or doing your friend Miha a favor at Bologna)

DeLigt case is comparable to Donnarumma.They are young and inexperienced and they are scared to decides the uknown.So it's not a suprise that they let other people that they feel is know better than them to decide.

Zlatan is also used to be young man but even at a very young age didn't let anyone to decide for him hence the Arsenal trial incident..

Like I said it's depends on a individual personality. You quite answer it yourself on your asessment on his move to Milan.He doesn't know what will happened but he do it anyway because at the end he knows himself better than anyone not to mention he also has a complete confidence on his abilities....

[VultureSheva]

Osimhen will return to Napoli in the next days, a serious shoulder injury has been ruled out, but further tests are required, he’s a doubt for the game against Milan. (@SkySport)

[voom]

Interesting interview with Marotta and Galliani on Inter youtube channel.

[TAZIO.N]

Originally Posted by voom

Interesting interview with Marotta and Galliani on Inter youtube channel.

They did the collabs?

[Alo88]

Originally Posted by TAZIO.N

DeLigt case is comparable to Donnarumma.They are young and inexperienced and they are scared to decides the uknown.So it's not a suprise that they let other people that they feel is know better than them to decide.

Zlatan is also used to be young man but even at a very young age didn't let anyone to decide for him hence the Arsenal trial incident..

Like I said it's depends on a individual personality. You quite answer it yourself on your asessment on his move to Milan.He doesn't know what will happened but he do it anyway because at the end he knows himself better than anyone not to mention he also has a complete confidence on his abilities....

De Ligt and Donna: That's one way to see it. The other way is how Mou describes it. You still haven't answered to me which player we know of dropped Rino and went on to a big club afterwards or why you think Mou, with all his reputation and experience, is talking bullocks and why you would know it better?

No hard feelings bro, but I need more from you than a "Ah c'mon, BS!" call. We don't know what went on and was said or done behind closed doors in Donnas or DeLigts case. That's just us assuming something and trying to make sense of it. And as far as I see it Mous hints have far more legs than our assumptions.

Zlatan, again. It was either end his career or join Milan. There were no other clubs (bar Bologna) waiting for him with open arms and 6-7M a year (Bologna surely couldn't have offered him the same we did). Why would Raiola oppose to another year of commissions and get in the way of Zlatan?

[Alo88]

Originally Posted by VultureSheva

Suso always had more talent in his legs than Samu, but Suso?s football style was shit, I hated the fact this average player was managing our game.

Dito.

I think even now with Samu out of form, if Sevilla showed up and asked us to do a straight swap between Suso and Samu, everyone bar Giampaolo would prefer to keep Samu and let Suso where he is.

Or are there people who would actually gladly take back Suso for our RW and give away Samu in return?

[VultureSheva]

Originally Posted by Alo88

Dito.

I think even now with Samu out of form, if Sevilla showed up and asked us to do a straight swap between Suso and Samu, everyone bar Giampaolo would prefer to keep Samu and let Suso where he is.

Or are there people who would actually gladly take back Suso for our RW and give away Samu in return?

I wouldn?t want any of them, give us 10M and they can have Samu.

[TAZIO.N]

Originally Posted by Alo88

De Ligt and Donna: That's one way to see it. The other way is how Mou describes it. You still haven't answered to me which player we know of dropped Rino and went on to a big club afterwards or why you think Mou, with all his reputation and experience, is talking bullocks and why you would know it better?

No hard feelings bro, but I need more from you than a "Ah c'mon, BS!" call. We don't know what went on and was said or done behind closed doors in Donnas or DeLigts case. That's just us assuming something and trying to make sense of it. And as far as I see it Mous hints have far more legs than our assumptions.

Zlatan, again. It was either end his career or join Milan. There were no other clubs (bar Bologna) waiting for him with open arms and 6-7M a year (Bologna surely couldn't have offered him the same we did). Why would Raiola oppose to another year of commissions and get in the way of Zlatan?

I didn't exactly follow Mino so I don't have the answer for it.But Hamsik is not doing worse is it?So did Insigne.

I think the issue is you want to believe that your Donnarumma loves Milan more than anything.I also do believe that he also loves Milan but above all else? Hell No!

What my takes on Mou that you don't understand?Off course he is right and I give you my thought on example with De Light and Donnarumma on why they keep obeying what Mino said compared to Zlatan.

On Zlatan,you are wrong, Man Utd is also interested on him so you can't said that his move here is sort of desperate move.

I dunno about Donnarumma but if he wants to leave Milan it's his decision.It won't stop Milan being back to be a great club again

[Alo88]

Originally Posted by TAZIO.N

I didn't exactly follow Mino so I don't have the answer for it.But Hamsik is not doing worse is it?So did Insigne.

I think the issue is you want to believe that your Donnarumma loves Milan more than anything.I also do believe that he also loves Milan but above all else? Hell No!

What my takes on Mou that you don't understand?Off course he is right and I give you my thought on example with De Light and Donnarumma on why they keep obeying what Mino said compared to Zlatan.

On Zlatan,you are wrong, Man Utd is also interested on him so you can't said that his move here is sort of desperate move.

I dunno about Donnarumma but if he wants to leave Milan it's his decision.It won't stop Milan being back to be a great club again

You say in one sentence that the narrative of agents talking into their players will is BS, then you track back by saying well Mou is not entirely wrong, but then you bring up De Ligt being a pussy tho and Donna not loving the club as a counter argument for agents being in the way of their players will. And you ask me what's so hard about getting your point?

And yes, Hamsik is doing perfectly great at Dalian Professional in Chinese Super League if that's not a downgrade to you. Insigne still hasn't moved anywhere nearer to win scudetto or CL.

When did ManU ever show serious interest in Zlatan?