The Red & Black Forums | An AC Milan Community The Red & Black Forums | An AC Milan Community The Red & Black Forums | An AC Milan Community

Go Back   The Red & Black Forums > Other > Football

Football Talk about the wonderful game.



View Poll Results: Who will be the winner of Golden Ball this Year ?
Kaka' 28 40.58%
Andrea Pirlo 3 4.35%
Leo Messi 12 17.39%
Zlatan Ibrahimovic 0 0%
Francesco Totti 1 1.45%
Ronaldinho 3 4.35%
Luca Toni 1 1.45%
Frank Ribery 0 0%
Riquelme 0 0%
Francesc Fabregas 1 1.45%
Gigi Buffon 0 0%
Cristiano Ronaldo 9 13.04%
Didier Drogba 0 0%
Steven Gerard 0 0%
Genaro Gattuso 2 2.90%
Wayne Rooney 0 0%
Paul Scholes 2 2.90%
Ruud van Nistelrooy 0 0%
David Villa 1 1.45%
Paolo Maldini 2 2.90%
Deco 0 0%
Thierry Henry 0 0%
Diego 0 0%
Ricardo Quaresma 1 1.45%
Clarence Seedorf 2 2.90%
Miroslav Klose 1 1.45%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-01-2011, 12:23   #361
acerвιc wιт
Milano Siamo Noi!
 
acerвιc wιт's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Fav. Players: Paolo Maldini, Thiago Silva, Serginho, Kaká, Gennaro Gattuso, Kevin Prince Boateng & Filippo Inzaghi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wet Ones View Post
And without Gattuso in the form he was in, Pirlo wouldn't have been as influential. That's been proven at Milan as well.
True to an extent, though, with your logic that means that no one should deserve a MOTM award because they couldn't of achieved this feat without their teammates. Which I have no problem with because football is a collective sport. Again which why I hate awards such as the Ballon D'Or.

And Gattuso was brilliant at the World Cup. Definitely the best defensive midfielder, at that time, in the world by a large margin. However, Pirlo is what made Italy tick and played a major part in the decisive moments which lead to a triumph in Berlin.


Signature

"You cannot buy football, you construct it." - Arrigo Sacchi.
acerвιc wιт is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 12:45   #362
Wet Ones
Απορροφάμε
 
Wet Ones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rif Mountains
Fav. Players: Whoever helps make Milan untouchable
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by мιℓαηєℓℓσ View Post
True to an extent, though, with your logic that means that no one should deserve a MOTM award because they couldn't of achieved this feat without their teammates. Which I have no problem with because football is a collective sport. Again which why I hate awards such as the Ballon D'Or.

And Gattuso was brilliant at the World Cup. Definitely the best defensive midfielder, at that time, in the world by a large margin. However, Pirlo is what made Italy tick and played a major part in the decisive moments which lead to a triumph in Berlin.
Well in that case what about Totti? He had 4 assists and a goal to his name compared to 3 and 1 for Pirlo.

And I really don't get how Pirlo was MOTM in the Final? France were the better team. Was it a random picking? I mean here's a part from one of the reviews of the Final:

Quote:
France were as good in the second half and extra-time as Italy were in the first. The game was played at a painfully slow pace. Toni dived more in 120 minutes than Cristiano Ronaldo has in his last three matches. Pirlo reverted to type i.e. kept giving the ball away, Totti was beyond useless and Cannavaro didn't look anywhere near as assured as he has done in previous matches. Good job Gattuso was off the charts, as he has been all tournament. IMO Malouda was France's best player. Nothing Materazzi said can excuse Zidane's headbutt. Zidane is no stranger to red cards.
Wet Ones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 13:06   #363
acerвιc wιт
Milano Siamo Noi!
 
acerвιc wιт's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Fav. Players: Paolo Maldini, Thiago Silva, Serginho, Kaká, Gennaro Gattuso, Kevin Prince Boateng & Filippo Inzaghi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wet Ones View Post
And I really don't get how Pirlo was MOTM in the Final? France were the better team. Was it a random picking?
I don't really get how Zidane won the Golden Ball in the 2006 World Cup. France didn't win the World Cup. Was it a random picking?


Signature

"You cannot buy football, you construct it." - Arrigo Sacchi.
acerвιc wιт is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 13:14   #364
Wet Ones
Απορροφάμε
 
Wet Ones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Rif Mountains
Fav. Players: Whoever helps make Milan untouchable
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by мιℓαηєℓℓσ View Post
I don't really get how Zidane won the Golden Ball in the 2006 World Cup. France didn't win the World Cup. Was it a random picking?
So you're agreeing that Pirlo's MOM was a joke? Coz I didn't actually defend Zidane's award? Parading the importance of a player based on these bullshit awards makes the argument that much more of a joke IMO.

It's like how Seedorf was Best Midfielder of the UCL in 2007 I guess whoever voted had their eyes stuck on his freak ass rather than watch the real best MF i.e. Gattuso.
Wet Ones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 13:22   #365
acerвιc wιт
Milano Siamo Noi!
 
acerвιc wιт's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Fav. Players: Paolo Maldini, Thiago Silva, Serginho, Kaká, Gennaro Gattuso, Kevin Prince Boateng & Filippo Inzaghi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wet Ones View Post
So you're agreeing that Pirlo's MOM was a joke? Coz I didn't actually defend Zidane's award? Parading the importance of a player based on these bullshit awards makes the argument that much more of a joke IMO.
Considering how people like to use statistics around here I decided to throw that one out there. It irritates the Pirlo bashers. I still believe Pirlo was Italy's most influential for the Azzurri with or without any of the MOTM awards. He should've finished with the Silver Ball and Buffon should've received the Bronze. No doubts in my mind. However, Gattuso is very unlucky to miss out because, I repeat, he was at his prime during that tournament. Unbelievable competitor. The Azzurri had chemistry back then. I knew Italy would win the World Cup when we smashed Holland and Germany in friendlies leading up to the tournament. Football is a collective sport so I don't buy into these individual honours. Especially considering Baresi or Maldini never held one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wet Ones View Post
It's like how Seedorf was Best Midfielder of the UCL in 2007 I guess whoever voted had their eyes stuck on his freak ass rather than watch the real best MF i.e. Gattuso.
That's UEFA. And at least he was in a winning team!


Signature

"You cannot buy football, you construct it." - Arrigo Sacchi.
acerвιc wιт is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 13:27   #366
drucurl
Banned
 
drucurl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Trinidad and Tobago
Fav. Players: Ronaldo, Maldini, Nesta, Kaká, Ba, Silva
Default

let's not be silly haterz guys Messi is fantastic. As an overall player he's probably the best. However I think Xavi an Iniesta were better since they both powered Spain to the Euro and World Cups. Messi didn't even score at the World Cup. Personally I'd hate liked to see Sneijder replace Messi for his exploits this year. But then again his 15 minutes of fame seems to be up. All the ppl that said FU GALLIANI are repenting now
drucurl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 15:38   #367
IpnoXXI
Rookie
 
IpnoXXI's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Damogran
Default

Hahaha, I preferred Sneijder, but better Messi than the other two
IpnoXXI is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 16:24   #368
ladro
AC Milan Icon
 
ladro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Slo
Default

Heh, spaniards are sooo pissed now.

I saw it coming and frankly lost interest after milito was completely dropped. Seemed like a collection of most popular players more than anything.

As long as your popular and your football sells tickets, boosts TV viewership your the winner. No matter if a 37 year old never made you see the ball and was pure garbage in WC. Score dozens of goals in a shit league and congratulations. Not saying messi isnt a top player but IMO both xavi and iniesta deserved it a lot more this year not to mention sneijder.
ladro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 17:05   #369
Quatre Barres
Senior Team Member
 
Quatre Barres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Default

Mourinho deserved his award.

The team of the year was perfect in my opinion.

As for the Ballon d'Or, it depends on what they look for in a winner. Best player over the twelve months for me is Messi. Sneijder nearly won everything though. Iniesta was eventually the star of the world cup for Espańa and Xavi was probably consistently the best (all competitions).

Messi deserves it for being the best player in 2010. In a way it's good that the award isn't given to a player based on the world cup but some people want to see the biggest achiever awarded so I don't know.

I'm happy for him anyway, just a bit disappointed for Xavi.

Actually no, I'm very disappointed

but still, MESSI!

Last edited by Quatre Barres; 11-01-2011 at 17:07.
Quatre Barres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 19:41   #370
Sonny.Bill.Williams
WUNDERKIND
 
Sonny.Bill.Williams's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Cape Town,South Africa
Default

LOLZ @ ESPN soccernet ...Shaka Hislop- "Mou didn't deserve to win Coach of the year ...because Inter weren't as stylish as Spain were in the WC "

" Barca play football the way it is meant to be played " "Barca and Madrid are the greatest teams in history" ...bla bla bla

....hercules ?....Milan =tied best team in the world due to our draw
Sonny.Bill.Williams is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2011, 20:07   #371
akewander
AC Milan Icon
 
akewander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ireland
Fav. Players: Kaka , Maldini, Zidane, Pato, Thiago silva, Gattuso.
Default



Quote:
Paolo Maldini - "In my opinion, Messi should win the Golden Ball each year. He's an unbelievable player."
puyols girl is hotttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttttt.

Last edited by akewander; 11-01-2011 at 20:17.
akewander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 14:42   #372
Lvn369
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Those that followed La Liga know that it wasnt Xavi or Iniesta(injured) but Messi that carried a sometimes weak and exhaustive Barcelona team last season. It's not about the amount of goals he scores, its the way he does it at the moment he scores them.
I remember the months where the world wide press were findind it hard to find superlatives for him and were comparing him with all time greats (too early offcourse). I remember a difficult match against Valencia (one of the strongest teams; possible to loose points) at home. HT 0:0, Valencia were defensively very well organised and hard to break down, Barca looked flat. In second half, Messi turned on a solo master class to score a hat trick and the 3 points. The way he scored the first...nobody could go through 1 player and suddenly he dribbled 3/4 and scored that goal. Genius. In Midweek he scored a brace againats Stuttgart, OK ..can happen.. a snack. But the next La liga game there was the lowly placed team Zaragoza. This should have been a walk in the park but yet they made life difficult for Barcelona always scoring when Barca scored. And always it was Messi who broke the deadlock with solo runs (and beautiful curling long shot) to score more. In the end he did it again, after he dribbled 3 players he was brought down in the box and he gave the penalty to Ibra, because he "needed" it. Thus...this "weak" team was very competitive against a Barca side in bad form in a match where Ibrahimovic missed alot of easy chances..to a point where the crowd were literally laughing at him. When Messi turned on his skills and solo runs and goals, the whole stadium was smiling and applauding him. The Zaragoza coach said: "we could have beaten Barcelona but not Leo Messi. If we scored 4, messi would score 12. It was like Maradona but at more revs per minute". Some weeks after, he annihilated Arsenal after they went a goal down. And again the praise of the opposite coaches.

This is just an example of how important Messi was ..he carried FCB to a historic 99 points in La Liga to just win over the all spending Madrid (CRonaldo, Kaka etc) with +-96 points (also historic till that date).

Messi was topscorer in Europe (European golden boot) and topscorer of Champions League. He is a great goal scorer like Cronaldo but he is also a scorer of great goals, consistently and a great assister.
Alot of people were dissapointed in Messi for his world cup, yet many football purist still enjoyed his decisive playmaking abilities leading to all (but 1) Argentina goals (still top 10 golden ball world cup).

There was no player like Messi in 2010.

Sneijder might have been very decisive in the treble and the World Cup, people remember the defense and Mourinho that provided the titles for Inter (worldwide, not in Italy) because thats what we saw against Barcelona for example (most people dont follow all matches of all leagues). And its based on that that people also were dissapointed in Messi. The Inter team stopped Messi.
In the world cup, Sneijder's influence might be debateable. His stats are second to none but the voters werent that impressed (fluky goals and ultimate failure).
When looking at prices won and playing a role in it, Sneijder might have gotten it. That is if you want to choose a influential player of an all winning team. But imo Milito was more decisive in terms of goals and their defense players had more merit.

When choosing the best player in the world, and not only by "hype" but by performances, it must be the player of which legends were comparing him to legends, thus Leo Messi.

In the end its all about people having an opionion based on own criteria. In the end it's a democratic vote which is the most fair. Messi won most votes thus deserved.

Last edited by Lvn369; 12-01-2011 at 15:08.
Lvn369 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 14:56   #373
acerвιc wιт
Milano Siamo Noi!
 
acerвιc wιт's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Fav. Players: Paolo Maldini, Thiago Silva, Serginho, Kaká, Gennaro Gattuso, Kevin Prince Boateng & Filippo Inzaghi
Default

The World Cup showed that Xavi and Iniesta were able to function without Messi whilst Messi was unable to function without Xavi and Iniesta.


Signature

"You cannot buy football, you construct it." - Arrigo Sacchi.
acerвιc wιт is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 15:02   #374
Lvn369
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by мιℓαηєℓℓσ View Post
The World Cup showed that Xavi and Iniesta were able to function without Messi whilst Messi was unable to function without Xavi and Iniesta.
Yet Xavi and Iniesta were not that good or injured last year in La liga. Yet Messi had more assists than the rest of them. Yet Messi has more assists this season than Xavi and Iniesta combined. Yet Del Bosque said he was the best player of the world cup. Yet Xavi and Iniesta claim he was the best.
I understand people attacking Messi for not scoring but not for not seeing he didnt play in a forwards role. By lack of midfield he had to start actions and plays from midfield or the back and he was VERY successful at it. Check out the goals of Argentina, it was all Messi. Higuains hat trick? Each goal thanks to Messi.
Ashame people that follow football dont see what Argentina as a team was lacking and just blame Messi.
Allthough friendlies, with a new coach ... did u see what Messi did to Spain, to Brazil lately ?

Dont forget, Xavi didnt have a good world cup at all. He was put under pressure alot by physical opponents. Iniesta was better. Remember, these passing players depend on team mates which move all the time and make diagonal runs in front. They played in a system totally similar to Barcelona and they had the players who could fill that role perfectly. Yet Spain might have won but Spain never looked like Barcelona did it.. They might have missed a Messi.

Last edited by Lvn369; 12-01-2011 at 15:12.
Lvn369 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 15:04   #375
Madridista
Disco
 
Madridista's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Fav. Players: Ronaldo, Pato, Ronaldinho, Robinho, Cassano, Drogba, Pandev, Balotelli, Benzema, Kaka, Isco
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by мιℓαηєℓℓσ View Post
the world cup showed that xavi and iniesta were able to function without messi whilst messi was unable to function without xavi and iniesta.
+100000000000000000


Signature

#ForeverMario
Madridista is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 15:13   #376
akewander
AC Milan Icon
 
akewander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Ireland
Fav. Players: Kaka , Maldini, Zidane, Pato, Thiago silva, Gattuso.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by мιℓαηєℓℓσ View Post
The World Cup showed that Xavi and Iniesta were able to function without Messi whilst Messi was unable to function without Xavi and Iniesta.
how??? by not scoring? please im tired of this he flopped at the wc, he didnt flop he was good, yes he didnt score but he pretty much created everything that resulted in a goal for argentina.the thing that fucked up their wc was having maradona as coach.peicked the wrong players, having fucking guiterez who plays rw as a lb.

also didnt argentina beat spain 4-1 after the wc and messi scored and created.

please stop hating and look at what criteria for the award is, its not about who won the most, its about who played football the best, who had moments of individual brilliance and who made the extraordinary just plain ordinary for him.

it was a tight call as the votes show but saying he flopped because he didnt score is just plain stupid and in all fairness it should have been between xavi,snjeider,milito and messi,either one of them deserved it.

and the people who voted are'nt ordinary people, they feel breathe and eat football and they know best about it.

if he wants to win the nest world cup he needs to grow and become an eve better playmaker not just the goal scorer.
akewander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 15:20   #377
Lvn369
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by akewander View Post
how??? by not scoring? please im tired of this he flopped at the wc, he didnt flop he was good, yes he didnt score but he pretty much created everything that resulted in a goal for argentina.the thing that fucked up their wc was having maradona as coach.peicked the wrong players, having fucking guiterez who plays rw as a lb.

also didnt argentina beat spain 4-1 after the wc and messi scored and created.

please stop hating and look at what criteria for the award is, its not about who won the most, its about who played football the best, who had moments of individual brilliance and who made the extraordinary just plain ordinary for him.

it was a tight call as the votes show but saying he flopped because he didnt score is just plain stupid and in all fairness it should have been between xavi,snjeider,milito and messi,either one of them deserved it.

and the people who voted are'nt ordinary people, they feel breathe and eat football and they know best about it.

if he wants to win the nest world cup he needs to grow and become an eve better playmaker not just the goal scorer.
i agree
Lvn369 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 15:29   #378
acerвιc wιт
Milano Siamo Noi!
 
acerвιc wιт's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Fav. Players: Paolo Maldini, Thiago Silva, Serginho, Kaká, Gennaro Gattuso, Kevin Prince Boateng & Filippo Inzaghi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lvn369 View Post
Yet Xavi and Iniesta were not that good or injured last year in La liga. Yet Messi had more assists than the rest of them. Yet Messi has more assists this season than Xavi and Iniesta combined. Yet Del Bosque said he was the best player of the world cup. Yet Xavi and Iniesta claim he was the best.
I understand people attacking Messi for not scoring but not for not seeing he didnt play in a forwards role. By lack of midfield he had to start actions and plays from midfield or the back and he was VERY successful at it. Check out the goals of Argentina, it was all Messi. Higuains hat trick? Each goal thanks to Messi.
Ashame people that follow football dont see what Argentina as a team was lacking and just blame Messi.
Allthough friendlies, with a new coach ... did u see what Messi did to Spain, to Brazil lately ?

Dont forget, Xavi didnt have a good world cup at all. He was put under pressure alot by physical opponents. Iniesta was better. Remember, these passing players depend on team mates which move all the time and make diagonal runs in front. They played in a system totally similar to Barcelona and they had the players who could fill that role perfectly. Yet Spain might have won but Spain never looked like Barcelona did it.. They might have missed a Messi.
For someone who scored 60 goals in 64 matches last season he couldn't outscore Landon Donovan in the biggest competition in World Football?

It just shows how poor La Liga is.

Sneijder won the treble and scored vital goals which took Netherlands to the Final of the WC. What else do you have to do to win the award?


Signature

"You cannot buy football, you construct it." - Arrigo Sacchi.
acerвιc wιт is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 15:35   #379
acerвιc wιт
Milano Siamo Noi!
 
acerвιc wιт's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Sydney, Australia
Fav. Players: Paolo Maldini, Thiago Silva, Serginho, Kaká, Gennaro Gattuso, Kevin Prince Boateng & Filippo Inzaghi
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lvn369 View Post
Yet Xavi and Iniesta were not that good or injured last year in La liga. Yet Messi had more assists than the rest of them. Yet Messi has more assists this season than Xavi and Iniesta combined. Yet Del Bosque said he was the best player of the world cup. Yet Xavi and Iniesta claim he was the best.
I understand people attacking Messi for not scoring but not for not seeing he didnt play in a forwards role. By lack of midfield he had to start actions and plays from midfield or the back and he was VERY successful at it. Check out the goals of Argentina, it was all Messi. Higuains hat trick? Each goal thanks to Messi.
Ashame people that follow football dont see what Argentina as a team was lacking and just blame Messi.
Allthough friendlies, with a new coach ... did u see what Messi did to Spain, to Brazil lately ?

Dont forget, Xavi didnt have a good world cup at all. He was put under pressure alot by physical opponents. Iniesta was better. Remember, these passing players depend on team mates which move all the time and make diagonal runs in front. They played in a system totally similar to Barcelona and they had the players who could fill that role perfectly. Yet Spain might have won but Spain never looked like Barcelona did it.. They might have missed a Messi.
Since when did La Liga solemnly become the criteria for deciding who wins this award?

Without Xavi Barcelona are no where near what they with him in the line up. Xavi makes the side tick.


Signature

"You cannot buy football, you construct it." - Arrigo Sacchi.
acerвιc wιт is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2011, 16:41   #380
Lvn369
Rookie
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by мιℓαηєℓℓσ View Post
For someone who scored 60 goals in 64 matches last season he couldn't outscore Landon Donovan in the biggest competition in World Football?

It just shows how poor La Liga is.

Sneijder won the treble and scored vital goals which took Netherlands to the Final of the WC. What else do you have to do to win the award?
Ow let's play that game: Sneijder was lucky, showed no skill whatsoever and was surprised he scored the goals he scored.
No player had an impact like Messi. He was only involved in every Argentina goal (but 1)? If you dont understand that you didnt watch La Liga (oh u mean best league in the world atm , officially with the best players in the world, officially) and if u cant identify messi as a playmaker at the world cup, i pity you.
Oh, words just out: Figo, advisor of INTER, just said: Messi deserved it. Oops

Sneijder vital for Inter? not more than Milito was, the whole defensive line was, Mourinho was. No player stood out in Inter nor Holland nor Spain. There was one player which did stand out, Messi.

Last edited by Lvn369; 12-01-2011 at 16:48.
Lvn369 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 21:13.





Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
©2002-2011 The Red & Black Forums. These are fan forums and are in no way affiliated with AC Milan S.p.A.