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Old 17-08-2009, 22:02   #21
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Jube threw their best at us, they wanted the cup as bad as us. For us more than the cup this will boost the team's moral.
Atleast Leo makes the right subs !


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Old 18-08-2009, 00:15   #22
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We looked better than in the previous macthes,and you could some actions that were practiced in trainings. Hopefully this is a sign of better things to come.
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Old 19-08-2009, 19:24   #23
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Good article form ESPN:

FOCUS ON AC MILAN
Leonardo's tactical revolution

By Svend Frandsen


August 19, 2009

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With the new Italian season almost upon us, Italian football journalists are already queuing up to sound the alarm bells for AC Milan, after mediocre displays in six consecutive friendly-defeats fuelled speculation that Leonardo's new tactical regime (following the departure of Carlo Ancelotti to Chelsea) will ultimately lead to a horror season for the former Champions League winners.


Leonardo can expect a tough season.

Indeed, it seemed the 2008-09 season was barely seconds over before Milan turned just about everything on its head. Captain Courageous, Paolo Maldini - at the age of 41 - finally brought down the curtain on a glorious career, coach Ancelotti paid the price for a season where he (according to president Silvio Berlusconi) "got it all wrong" and Real Madrid's £59m bid for Brazilian playmaker Kaka was simply too much for the Italians to resist.

The arrival of Leonardo, who was a prominent part of a star-studded line-up at the San Siro from 1997 to 2001 may possibly signal a tactical revolution at a club who have had to endure the humiliation of seeing bitter rivals Inter take over at the top of Italian football. Leonardo has wasted no time stating his admiration for his old mentor Tele Santana's attacking ideas in the Brazilian World Cup team of 1982, though he also recognises that much has changed in football since the 1980s.

''I admired the Brazil team of 1982, with players who basically did not have exact duties and who had two full-backs who often pushed forward,'' said Leonardo on his first press conference to Milan's TV-channel. ''But those were the '80s, today you cannot do without fighting spirit and physically robust players. Even a coach like Guus Hiddink has changed his team selections slightly, putting more emphasis on physical strength.''

For the time being, Milan have moved carefully in the transfer market, recalling Massimo Oddo from Bayern Munich, picking up Thiago Silva from Fluminense last January and bringing in €15m worth of Dutch striker in Klaas Jan Huntelaar (as well as signing American centre-back Oguchi Onyewu and making a move for Sevilla's Luís Fabiano).

Needless to say, such moves have hardly caused rapture among the fans who still feel Berlusconi and club director Adriano Galliani should have done more to hold onto Kaká. The same fans, too, remain concerned that Milan might even be tempted to cash in on their remaining big-name talent, striker Alexandre Pato, as well as the likes of Andrea Pirlo.

So Leonardo certainly has his work cut out for him, but his calm presence and positive outlook may possibly help Milan in adapting to new tactics. The Brazilian boss emphasises speed, creativity, and courage as the main themes of his new club's play and the change in thinking should symbolise a new Milanese era. However, poor displays in the pre-season friendlies have caused fears that the new tactics are not rubbing off on the players.

''Leonardo said in his first press conference that Milan will be inspired by the way Brazil played in 1982,'' says Andrea Perra, a well-respected football journalist in Milan. ''It would be very innovative to see Milan adopt such a system in a country which prides itself on catenaccio tactics but I think Leonardo will have big problems against mid-table teams in Italy.

''However, if he can find the right mix of Brazilian-inspired will to attack and Italian flair for controlling the matches, Milan could be the big surprise of the season.''

Still, even if Leonardo has great plans towards launching a virtual tactical revolution at Milan (at least on paper), most of Milan's football reporters doubt that he has got the right players to realise his dreams.

''There has been talk of playing two very offensive full-backs, as well as three strikers, but I think this will change during the season,'' says Perra. ''Players like (Marek) Jankulovski and (Gianluca) Zambrotta don't fit in with Leonardo's offensive philosophy and at the same time they are over 30 years old. Ronaldinho's form will have to change drastically to the better and it is also very uncertain if new striker Klaas Jan Huntelaar will function well with (Alexandre) Pato.''

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Pato: The Brazilian is key to Milan's hopes.

Most experts in the football-passionate country also feel confident that Milan will finally pay the price for relying too heavily on ageing stars. It might have done wonders for Milan's strategy of marketing the club as 'home of the stars,' but at the same time it did not help that many were unable to put in their best performances.

''Berlusconi was hoping to have a very young team where the average age was around 23 but this is a dream that won't be realised. The new players Huntelaar and Thiago Silva are 26 and 24 years old and Pato also belong to the few youngsters in the team. But the others are well over 30 and this could spell problems for Milan'', says Perra, who believes Milan could be in for a transitional season.

''Milan have gone through so many changes in a short amount of time. Kaka was a unique player who is impossible to replace, even if Ronaldinho should recapture a bit of the form that saw him win the Golden Ball a couple of years ago. Player by player, Inter and Juventus are superior to Leonardo's troops, Huntelaar and Thiago Silva need time to adjust and I certainly don't see Milan getting past the quarter-finals in this year's Champions League competition.''

Time will tell, but if Leonardo succeeds in bringing his revolution to Milan, it be will against all the odds.


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
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Old 20-08-2009, 01:40   #24
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Still, even if Leonardo has great plans towards launching a virtual tactical revolution at Milan (at least on paper), most of Milan's football reporters doubt that he has got the right players to realise his dreams.

''There has been talk of playing two very offensive full-backs, as well as three strikers, but I think this will change during the season,'' says Perra. ''Players like (Marek) Jankulovski and (Gianluca) Zambrotta don't fit in with Leonardo's offensive philosophy and at the same time they are over 30 years old. Ronaldinho's form will have to change drastically to the better and it is also very uncertain if new striker Klaas Jan Huntelaar will function well with (Alexandre) Pato.''
THis is the only part of that article you have to read. Ignore the rest (not that it is bad), but this is so fundamental to absolutely everything. Cannot stress it enough, myself and others have been saying this for ages.

It is impossible to implement a philosophy and a style of football without the right players. Genuinely impossible. And Leo is in that situation. There is no way he will have his style "rub off" on the players because he does not have the right type, or indeed the quality, to make it work.

Look at Barcelona. Everyone would love to play like them, but we don't. No club plays like Barça. Why? Because no club has the right players to pull it off. And I don't just mean Messi, Xavi, Iniesta (although they are key), I'm talking all the way through the team.
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Old 20-08-2009, 06:56   #25
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This is Milan. Not Barcelona. We've had a system over the Berlusconi era that every coach has worked with. That is, while the management will listen to the coach, they ultimately decide what squad the coach will have at his disposal. Of course Leo's job will be made harder with this squad, but he's got to learn how to get the best out of them. Thats his job and his responsibility.

I'm glad he realizes that this is a great opportunity (from the Pirlo interview) and that he hasn't lost commitment and interest in making this work. He's got to sit down with Tassotti and decide on some systems that would suit this squad best ... and implement them.
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Old 20-08-2009, 12:58   #26
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I think you've missed the point. He's already decided how he wants to play - something similar to Brazil in 1982. He seems intent on sticking to that method, but he doesn't have the players.

So something has to give, either he changes how he wants to play, or management give him the players he needs so he can implement the style. It's a ridiculous situation, and I don't see why coaches have to ignore their preferred style because the management won't give them the players they want.
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Old 20-08-2009, 14:59   #27
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I think you've missed the point. He's already decided how he wants to play - something similar to Brazil in 1982. He seems intent on sticking to that method, but he doesn't have the players.

So something has to give, either he changes how he wants to play, or management give him the players he needs so he can implement the style. It's a ridiculous situation, and I don't see why coaches have to ignore their preferred style because the management won't give them the players they want.
Ehm, Leonardo has already said that he can't play 4-3-3 this season because he doesn't have the players nor time to implement it so I see him giving up that plan and Play Ronnie behind the strikers.


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Old 20-08-2009, 15:45   #28
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I'm not just talking about formations. I'm talking about a style of play, a philosophy.
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Old 20-08-2009, 16:55   #29
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THis is the only part of that article you have to read. Ignore the rest (not that it is bad), but this is so fundamental to absolutely everything. Cannot stress it enough, myself and others have been saying this for ages.

It is impossible to implement a philosophy and a style of football without the right players. Genuinely impossible. And Leo is in that situation. There is no way he will have his style "rub off" on the players because he does not have the right type, or indeed the quality, to make it work.

Look at Barcelona. Everyone would love to play like them, but we don't. No club plays like Barça. Why? Because no club has the right players to pull it off. And I don't just mean Messi, Xavi, Iniesta (although they are key), I'm talking all the way through the team.

i think you're slightly off in assessing our first team. He wants to play smilar to 1982 tele santana team. Santana was his coach at flamengo (i thkn it was flamengo) and considered the guy who rejuvenated the 'joga bonito' idea. The way i define it is really skilled individual played with almost errorless team passing,. the only real philosophical thing ive ever associated with it is skill, technique, intelligent attacking football over strength and rigid defense....

The things Leo has specifically mentioned on more than one occasion has been 1. play faster and 2. run move off the ball and 3. start attack out the back faster

When i look at our starting 11 against juve i saw only 1 gaping hole, fbs. Huntelaar grow up in a dutch 4-3-3 as a Cf, he knows what to do. Ronaldinho if he can get to full fitness obviously is the posterboy for this system. Pato is brazilian and grew up this way. Flamini, though not highly creative had his best success with arsenal, where he ran ALOT off ball, passed well. Pirlo, pep guardiola called him closest player to him and wanted him as there DM or deep lying playmaker. I saw it in small doses, but when this team moves and oplay faster, pirlo looks miles better because he is 1 of the best at spreading the ball. Then you got gattuso who is what he is,. but he is nonstop energy, and u dont see him trying to dribble by 5 defenders, he generally knows his limitations. And 1 thing i saw which i didnt know about was T.Silva's ability to start attack from back. It was the fastest I've seen milan play, held good possession, mounted good attacks with some bad luck in the final 3rd + the fact huntelaar wasn't familar w/ pato and ronnie (that will change with some more training)

The real hole is FBs who can push. Zambrotta could in his day but not anymore, janku is okay but still a liability.

In many ways though, the only way its gonna be successful is if ronaldinho can rejuvenate his career, which is risky to tie your success to 1 man. (well and of course staying healthY).

Could we improve our first team? Absolutely. But can it play the style? I dont think its unrealistic to think we cant play at the minimum faster, and move off the ball more. I think 1 of the biggest undoings towards end of the Carlo era was how static we would look at times....


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 20-08-2009, 17:24   #30
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Could we improve our first team? Absolutely. But can it play the style? I dont think its unrealistic to think we cant play at the minimum faster, and move off the ball more. I think 1 of the biggest undoings towards end of the Carlo era was how static we would look at times....
No kidding. The lack of movement without the ball is a trademark of my country. Watching Milan in the last few years was almost the same as watching my team in here play, slow build up, extremely central display (which caused comical amateurish ball losses), and our players simply didn't move with the ball. No width, slow, boring and predictable.

That said, little changes if the only one you change is the coach but keep the same players. And in most of our games under Leo we've been facing basically the same thing, and that's cause Dinho is slow and our fullbacks suck are sucking (and at least if we're not buying another fullback, get a winger for the left side), if just 1 of those parts works, just 1, our display will improve a lot. And of course if we sort both, I'll say we have things to be competitive.
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Old 20-08-2009, 17:54   #31
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No kidding. The lack of movement without the ball is a trademark of my country. Watching Milan in the last few years was almost the same as watching my team in here play, slow build up, extremely central display (which caused comical amateurish ball losses), and our players simply didn't move with the ball. No width, slow, boring and predictable.

That said, little changes if the only one you change is the coach but keep the same players. And in most of our games under Leo we've been facing basically the same thing, and that's cause Dinho is slow and our fullbacks suck are sucking (and at least if we're not buying another fullback, get a winger for the left side), if just 1 of those parts works, just 1, our display will improve a lot. And of course if we sort both, I'll say we have things to be competitive.
It will take time to change the style of play since Ance has been here for so long.. so it will also need some new players that will probably arrive one at a time, at least I see the team can play faster these days, the problems are simply adaptation.. it is not easy to change a system that has been there for years.. It will happened if the players are willing to sacrifice and help Leo
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Old 20-08-2009, 22:24   #32
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i think you're slightly off in assessing our first team. He wants to play smilar to 1982 tele santana team. Santana was his coach at flamengo (i thkn it was flamengo) and considered the guy who rejuvenated the 'joga bonito' idea. The way i define it is really skilled individual played with almost errorless team passing,. the only real philosophical thing ive ever associated with it is skill, technique, intelligent attacking football over strength and rigid defense....
I don't think I was off at all. Take the part in bold - how can Milan pull this off with only one player who can pass the ball in midfield? Midfield is the key area of the pitch when it comes to determining the style of football you can play.

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The things Leo has specifically mentioned on more than one occasion has been 1. play faster and 2. run move off the ball and 3. start attack out the back faster
Again, I come back to the midfield. Movement off the ball requires intelligence. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it and every player could attack. Movement off the ball gives Pirlo options to pass to, yet only Ronaldinho and Pato offer anything in the way of clever off-the-ball movement. Huntelaar can, but his best work is done in the penalty area, and Pirlo is not usually close enough to reward his work here.

Playing faster requires players who can pass the ball. It is all well and good saying "OK, I want you to play faster, move the ball quicker", but again you need to be able to pass the ball. We have one player who can do that in midfield.

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When i look at our starting 11 against juve i saw only 1 gaping hole, fbs. Huntelaar grow up in a dutch 4-3-3 as a Cf, he knows what to do. Ronaldinho if he can get to full fitness obviously is the posterboy for this system. Pato is brazilian and grew up this way. Flamini, though not highly creative had his best success with arsenal, where he ran ALOT off ball, passed well. Pirlo, pep guardiola called him closest player to him and wanted him as there DM or deep lying playmaker. I saw it in small doses, but when this team moves and oplay faster, pirlo looks miles better because he is 1 of the best at spreading the ball. Then you got gattuso who is what he is,. but he is nonstop energy, and u dont see him trying to dribble by 5 defenders, he generally knows his limitations. And 1 thing i saw which i didnt know about was T.Silva's ability to start attack from back. It was the fastest I've seen milan play, held good possession, mounted good attacks with some bad luck in the final 3rd + the fact huntelaar wasn't familar w/ pato and ronnie (that will change with some more training)
You've named two players - Thiago Silva and Pirlo - who can pass the ball effectively. How do you expect the team to fulfil all of this change in style with two players, both of whom are too far away from the opposition penalty area to make the difference?

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The real hole is FBs who can push. Zambrotta could in his day but not anymore, janku is okay but still a liability.

In many ways though, the only way its gonna be successful is if ronaldinho can rejuvenate his career, which is risky to tie your success to 1 man. (well and of course staying healthY).

Could we improve our first team? Absolutely. But can it play the style? I dont think its unrealistic to think we cant play at the minimum faster, and move off the ball more. I think 1 of the biggest undoings towards end of the Carlo era was how static we would look at times....
Full-backs further up the pitch would help, it would give Pirlo more options. The way you are talking, you would think it solves all the problems.

We were static under Carlo because he played with Gattuso and Ambrosini in midfield. What else do you expect? They are defensive midfielders. The only movement came from Kaká and Pato, occasionally Ronaldinho. All of whom were in the attacking third. No wonder we were static.
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Old 20-08-2009, 22:34   #33
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I don't think I was off at all. Take the part in bold - how can Milan pull this off with only one player who can pass the ball in midfield? Midfield is the key area of the pitch when it comes to determining the style of football you can play.
Flamini is an incredibly accurate passer, good w/ short passes. When he left arsenal he completed second most passes in 07/08 for a very high percentage... he's not going to have the range pirlo but on the otherhand he's pretty good about making the simple play as opposed to attempting something he isnt as good at. Ambrosini is similar . Seedorf is good passer. I dont think passing is as big a problem as dribbling or getting by defenders.



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Again, I come back to the midfield. Movement off the ball requires intelligence. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it and every player could attack. Movement off the ball gives Pirlo options to pass to, yet only Ronaldinho and Pato offer anything in the way of clever off-the-ball movement. Huntelaar can, but his best work is done in the penalty area, and Pirlo is not usually close enough to reward his work here.
which is y i point to fullbacks.

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Playing faster requires players who can pass the ball. It is all well and good saying "OK, I want you to play faster, move the ball quicker", but again you need to be able to pass the ball. We have one player who can do that in midfield.
flamini played in a very fast arsenal team. He was a fine passer there. If we had fullbacks who could push up, he could push up the middle more.

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You've named two players - Thiago Silva and Pirlo - who can pass the ball effectively. How do you expect the team to fulfil all of this change in style with two players, both of whom are too far away from the opposition penalty area to make the difference?
i said only player who isnt an effective passer is gattuso


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Full-backs further up the pitch would help, it would give Pirlo more options. The way you are talking, you would think it solves all the problems.
i think our first team would be effective enough w/ FBs. I still think we r pencil thin on depth

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We were static under Carlo because he played with Gattuso and Ambrosini in midfield. What else do you expect? They are defensive midfielders. The only movement came from Kaká and Pato, occasionally Ronaldinho. All of whom were in the attacking third. No wonder we were static.
questionable. Despite what you say, we still scored more than any team in serie A.. meaning they had to be doing SOMETHING right


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 20-08-2009, 23:04   #34
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Flamini is an incredibly accurate passer, good w/ short passes. When he left arsenal he completed second most passes in 07/08 for a very high percentage... he's not going to have the range pirlo but on the otherhand he's pretty good about making the simple play as opposed to attempting something he isnt as good at. Ambrosini is similar . Seedorf is good passer. I dont think passing is as big a problem as dribbling or getting by defenders.





which is y i point to fullbacks.



flamini played in a very fast arsenal team. He was a fine passer there. If we had fullbacks who could push up, he could push up the middle more.



i said only player who isnt an effective passer is gattuso




i think our first team would be effective enough w/ FBs. I still think we r pencil thin on depth



questionable. Despite what you say, we still scored more than any team in serie A.. meaning they had to be doing SOMETHING right
You overestimate this team massively. And quoting that useless stat for Flamini is ridiculous. Highest percentage of passes, but how many were penetrating, how many were attacking? The reason that stat is so high is because the majority of his passes went sideways. In the same way as Makélélé had a high pass percentage at Chelsea.

You seem to think playing simple short passes is enough. It won't be anywhere close to being what is required for Leonardo to successfully implement the style he wants. You need people who can pass more than 5 yards accurately. You need players who can pass with invention. Including Ambrosini as one of these players is way off the mark, because he can't pass effectively.

And Inter scored just as many goals, Juventus scored only one less. You make it sound as if we were ahead by miles - we weren't even outright top goalscorers.
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Old 20-08-2009, 23:11   #35
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You overestimate this team massively. And quoting that useless stat for Flamini is ridiculous. Highest percentage of passes, but how many were penetrating, how many were attacking? The reason that stat is so high is because the majority of his passes went sideways. In the same way as Makélélé had a high pass percentage at Chelsea.

You seem to think playing simple short passes is enough. It won't be anywhere close to being what is required for Leonardo to successfully implement the style he wants. You need people who can pass more than 5 yards accurately. You need players who can pass with invention. Including Ambrosini as one of these players is way off the mark, because he can't pass effectively.

And Inter scored just as many goals, Juventus scored only one less. You make it sound as if we were ahead by miles - we weren't even outright top goalscorers.

i wouldnt necessarily disagree we need added creativity in midfield, but i'm also saying its not as doom and gloom as u think. I liked what i saw from pirlo, flamini, gattuso in trofeo berlusconi... never seen them play that fast ALL last year. In fact if you read my posts i'm 1 of the least big fans of flams.. but it dawned on me, in this system he could floorish or atleast he's adept to play it. I do think we need another creative mid cause the pressure on pirlo is too much....

BTW on barca since u initially referenced them, many games were yaya, keita/busquets + xavi (or iniesta). The xavi, iniesta combo played in big games but they didnt play together in all the league games... i recall many where it was keita, yaya, xavi


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 21-08-2009, 00:30   #36
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That's because Iniesta was injured. You don't honestly think Guardiola saves Xavi and Iniesta playing in the same midfield for the big games? He'd play them everytime if he could, but injuries, whether they be to Iniesta, or Henry/Messi, mean he couldn't.
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Old 21-08-2009, 00:36   #37
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That's because Iniesta was injured. You don't honestly think Guardiola saves Xavi and Iniesta playing in the same midfield for the big games? He'd play them everytime if he could, but injuries, whether they be to Iniesta, or Henry/Messi, mean he couldn't.
that avoids the point that w/ keita, yaya and xavi they were still every effective.

i didn't say why he did it (though squad rotation when you're fighting 3 tourney's is a must), but they didnt suffer


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Old 21-08-2009, 00:50   #38
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if you count Dinho as forward 3, Pirlo is one of, if not THE most creative midfielder we have, we don't have many really, but due to his defensive shortcomings, we must have a rino type player next to him , then the other position is up for grabs, and IMO Flamini should get it, he has a little creativity in him, but he's strong and has good defensive qualities, not to mention being quite young compared to large parts of our squad!
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Old 21-08-2009, 14:49   #39
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Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Wisconsin
Fav. Players: Any Milan player contributing to the expected success of the side, need more good Italian players.
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Leo speaks

Nice to hear the honesty, and that he isn't afraid to say the truth even if it goes against the BS Silvio speaks. Also like how he is handling the Oddo situation.
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Old 21-08-2009, 15:29   #40
Edi
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Join Date: Jul 2003
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Fav. Players: Maldini,Nesta,Kaka,
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He is right about Ronaldinho. Everybody is trying to encourage him and help him but at the end its all down to Ronaldinho


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I TOLD YOU HE WILL LEAD US TO GLORY AGAIN
EAT YOUR WORDS NOW LOSERS
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