The Red & Black Forums | An AC Milan Community The Red & Black Forums | An AC Milan Community The Red & Black Forums | An AC Milan Community

Go Back   The Red & Black Forums > AC Milan > AC Milan Discussions

AC Milan Discussions Talk about AC Milan's tactics, AC Milan news, events, history, etc., in here. Also find out details on how to travel to Milan and buy AC Milan tickets.



Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 21-11-2011, 07:20   #61
nuttela
Super Bludfam
 
nuttela's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sushanmilano View Post
Don't confuse running with football else flamini would be the greatest player ever. I would rather have a player technically very sound(a younger seedorf) with a better touch and vision than nocerino. Not saying Nocerino is a bad player. He can be a good squad player for sure. But he isnt worthy enough to start. I would rather Ibra and pato take shots than nocerino. They are strikers and have much better accuracy than nocerino/aquilani because they have been getting drilled on shooting their whole life so it could be great to have midfielders who would limit ibra's tendency to drop deep.
yeah i get what ur saying but i know noce's running isnt for the ssake of it, he slows down counters and adds numbers to the back when we need em. so much of his awesome is actually off the ball, he chases down, he slows down opposition play by positioning himself as a temporary barrier until our defence regroups.

the problem is, ibra wants to play creator and we havent seen enough of pato cos of injury... so we've relied on our mids for goals. if prince played, we woulda scored, if cassano played, we would of scored... but they werent.

sigh.... i still love noce tho and i think he can cement his spot in our squad, even if other teams have players of higher capabilities than him. he can make lcm his for now and drop to cdm (imagine that) if we find a player that can consistently perform there

as for now tho, noce is


Signature


Quote:
Originally Posted by AC_Wesley View Post
GOOOOOOOOL DEEEEL MILAAAAAAAN. HA ILLUMINATO SAN SIRO IL NUMERO UNDICI...GIAMPAOLO....PAZZINIIII....GIAMPAOLO....P AZZINI....GIAMPAOLO PAZZINI!!
nuttela is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-11-2011, 17:01   #62
Senatore_M84
'The King of RnB'
 
Senatore_M84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Fav. Players: Clarence Clyde Seedorf
Default

If Tevez comes, what do people think of using something similar to man utd's ucl winning unbalanced 4-4-1-1/4-3-3/4-6-0 formation? It got the most out of Tevez. Ibrahimovic can do the Rooney role where he's playing the hole and the general pivot of attack. Robinho won't be the scoring machine that Ronaldo is/was, BUT he is a better passing and can link the midfield to attack just as well...



http://www.zonalmarking.net/2010/03/...nited-2006-09/

Of course as with all milan's problems, something needs to be added to midfield along with Boateng becoming a proper midfielder


Signature
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACmen View Post
Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
Senatore_M84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2011, 05:20   #63
Sven
Super Moderator
 
Sven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Default

I think we can see by now that Allegri changed to a more offensive approach this season. Not really tactical changes, but the team is simply more attacking minded. We're pressing higher, our mezzalas are way more offensive and more brave making forward runs. Our midfielders are not shy at all to attack and left space behind. The team as a whole plays higher in the pitch. The movement in the attack is superior and more fluid. Aquilani and Nocerino are more attacking minded than Seedorf/Pirlo and Gattuso/Flamini.

This is problably why we conceded so much at the start of the season. Our team struggled to recompose fast defensively and the pressing game didn't really make for our higher lines (but it seems to be working better now). But instead of changing to a more safe route, Allegri keep on with his changes, and it seems to have some effect now.

I mean, looking at the last results in Serie A, it's not really the Milan with unbeatable defense, looking for 1-0 wins like last season:

Milan 3 - 0 Palermo
Lecce 3 - 4 Milan
Milan 4 - 1 Parma
Roma 2 - 3 Milan
Milan 4 - 0 Catania
Fiorentina 0 - 0 Milan
Milan 4 - 0 Chievo

Allegri building his own way and being more adventurous after solidifying his place in the first season? The management pushing him for a more Milan-way?

Last edited by Sven; 28-11-2011 at 05:23.
Sven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28-11-2011, 05:35   #64
necromancer
Defence of Champions
 
necromancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Johannesburg
Fav. Players: Nesta, Maldini, Buffon, Rino*Pirlo*Clarence, Sheva, Totti, Ibra, Pippo, Giacomo, Carlo, Il Dottore
Default

Yes, completely agree with the analysis. But the reason might be different. It might just be that now Allegri has the players he need to execute a more attacking gameplay. As you said, Aquilani and Nocerino are naturally more inclined to push forward than Seedorf/Pirlo or Gattuso/Flamini.

Ideally I expect Allegri wanted those two positions taken care of last season as well, but that would have led to too many changes too soon. This year he changed those two positions, and things changed offensively.
necromancer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 30-11-2011, 00:49   #65
Fiero
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominate View Post
If I had my way it would be 4-2-3-1

BUT

Need hard working wingers and technically accomplished anchors

Bayern I think have the best 4-2-3-1

---Schwieny-Kroos---
Robben-Muller-Ribery-
-------Gomez--------

I mean apart from Kroos would you change anyone???

nad yea 4-4-2 can be useful

BUT we dont have the player to fill it

ie hard working wingers
Dude why are you wasting bandwidth with this stuff? No offense but we said no fantasy signings or just stating formations. And this goes to everyone, come on guys.
Fiero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 17:03   #66
abbeyleemania
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Default

abbeyleemania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 17:06   #67
Jasper
Maldini tier
 
Jasper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Mt. Paektu
Fav. Players: 3; Marat Safin; Tiziano Crudeli; 2Pac; Christian Bale; Martin M??rsepp; Mario Balotelli
Default

There's an article that needs a translation.


Signature
Must follow tumblr - http://milanpeaboss.tumblr.com/

Jasper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 19:20   #68
Senatore_M84
'The King of RnB'
 
Senatore_M84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Fav. Players: Clarence Clyde Seedorf
Default

It's funny, i brought this up months ago.

But I bet you, if we had Hamsik, he might score 20 in this team. Allegri definitely designs his tactics inverted. Forwards hold up ball, take creative role, and midfielders continue the run.

It's quite brilliant when you consider 'make up' of the team.

I get the feeling Allegri has the former midfielder bitterness "I could score if the forwards passed to me!" lol


Signature
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACmen View Post
Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
Senatore_M84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 19:40   #69
BrasilianMilan
Eternal Rossonero
 
BrasilianMilan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Fav. Players: Sheva, Maldini, Kaka, Van Basten, Nesta, Inzaghi, Seedorf, Bonaventura
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper View Post
There's an article that needs a translation.
Yes, it looks like Gazzetta are up to publishing good articles again!


Signature
BrasilianMilan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 20:04   #70
Marcus
Costacurta Groupie
 
Marcus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Respubliko Makedonio
Fav. Players: Maldini, Shevchenko, Inzaghi, Costacurta, Pazzini, MENEZ
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasper View Post
There's an article that needs a translation.
Know of any Italian we can ban?


Signature
Marcus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 21:07   #71
crazy4milan
Exotic Stevie G
 
crazy4milan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Costa Rica
Fav. Players: Maldini,Weah,Nesta,Dida
Default

I can translate it, but I have many other things right now that are a priority (maybe in 36 hours if no one has translate it). The article is quite interesting though, talking about how Allegri dedcided to built a post Pirlo Milan with a regista in every line of the field (starting with Thiago and Nesta, though they mostly focus on Thiago), and the importance of players like Boateng and Robinho to provide space in our game. It does raise the point that we need to be at top fitness levels to be able to make this work, but when at top form is hard to keep up cause there's no 1 point of reference on who is the one that really builds the game on Milan.


Signature
Brocchi si nasce, campioni si diventa
crazy4milan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2011, 22:29   #72
abbeyleemania
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2011
Default

Same goes for me. im busy too, i'll translate when i have free time...
abbeyleemania is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 11:05   #73
Fiero
Moderator
 
Join Date: May 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Senatore_M84 View Post
It's funny, i brought this up months ago.

But I bet you, if we had Hamsik, he might score 20 in this team. Allegri definitely designs his tactics inverted. Forwards hold up ball, take creative role, and midfielders continue the run.

It's quite brilliant when you consider 'make up' of the team.

I get the feeling Allegri has the former midfielder bitterness "I could score if the forwards passed to me!" lol
Yeah that's pretty much spot on. Nocerino already has 5 goals and he's not even a good finisher or a shooter. But with the amount of chances this team creates, the ball is bound to go into the net sooner or later.

I notice the last couple of games Boateng has been taking some creating responsibility as well. This dude just keeps evolving. We were used to him just making runs, opening up space, but mostly he seemed clueless with the ball and his decision making way off. It's 2 or 3 games in a row now that he seems more confident, willing to pass a lot more and I think he chipped in with a couple of assists.

Downside to Allegri tactics currently is that Cassano is out and he was integral in creating from upfront, Robinho's role is different. And that Nocerino and Aquilani aren't natural goalscorers. Game's like Fiorentina's when the finishing is off the team needs a direct player like Pato and Boateng.

My point is, Ibra is relishing in his new role but at times we need to be more direct, especially Ibra as he knows how to finish. That's why Pato still has a role to play as Milan seems to sometimes be playing Arsenal-esque football with no one to directly get the job done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4milan View Post
I can translate it, but I have many other things right now that are a priority (maybe in 36 hours if no one has translate it). The article is quite interesting though, talking about how Allegri dedcided to built a post Pirlo Milan with a regista in every line of the field (starting with Thiago and Nesta, though they mostly focus on Thiago), and the importance of players like Boateng and Robinho to provide space in our game. It does raise the point that we need to be at top fitness levels to be able to make this work, but when at top form is hard to keep up cause there's no 1 point of reference on who is the one that really builds the game on Milan.
Yeah that's exactly what some of us here talked about. Robinho and Boateng create space, Ibra and Cassano drop back, take playmaking responsibility, midfielders take turns at going forward and interchange roles, etc.

BTW, the more I think about it, Nocerino's comparison to Gattuso is way off. Yeah he's not defensively half as good as Rino, but still he was supposed to be a defensive player first and foremost. But under Allegri it seems his best qualities are offensive. He's not a dribbler nor a passer and he doesn't have great technique, but he makes smart runs and his grit on the ball helps him win lots of 50/50 challenges in opponents area.
Fiero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2011, 11:15   #74
Jivara
Forza Milan
 
Jivara's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy4milan View Post
I can translate it, but I have many other things right now that are a priority (maybe in 36 hours if no one has translate it). The article is quite interesting though, talking about how Allegri dedcided to built a post Pirlo Milan with a regista in every line of the field (starting with Thiago and Nesta, though they mostly focus on Thiago), and the importance of players like Boateng and Robinho to provide space in our game. It does raise the point that we need to be at top fitness levels to be able to make this work, but when at top form is hard to keep up cause there's no 1 point of reference on who is the one that really builds the game on Milan.
This is very interesting and the right way to go. It is important for a team that plays the posession game but eventually we need to evolve and have our side players become responsible and good in posession. I cannot say this about the likes of Antonini (and Nocerino to a lesser extent) although all of the less technical players have evolved nicely in such a short time span. I think Aquilani is a fundemental signing that gives us a nice balance and Boateng at AM is definetly better than CM because he is an all round player that can do the defensive and offensive work equally good. If a player like Hamsik joined us I dont think he would neccessarily take the AM spot from Boateng, maybe a more forward LM like Seedorf under ancelotti, and MvB and Ambro might be scared to lose their position.
Jivara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2011, 07:37   #75
Douchebag101
Primavera Player
 
Douchebag101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: seattle, USA
Default

I truly miss the days when our fullbacks were cafu, pancaro, serginho, not to mention MALDINI. cant believe we went from that to abate, taiwo, antonini, zambrotta. nothing against abate, he's vastly improving, nor against zambrotta, he was one of the best at his prime. it's just sad that we use to be such a threat from the wings even if we didnt have actual wingers, because our fullbacks can deliver beautiful crosses
Douchebag101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 23:35   #76
Sven
Super Moderator
 
Sven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Default

http://msn.foxsports.com/foxsoccer/s...castle-120911-

This article also belongs here.

Very good view about Allegri ideas and the system he is building.
His biggest merit is that he "modernized" Milan whole game. My #1 complain about Milan with Ancelotti post-2007 and Leo's season was how static, unathletic and previsible the team was. Not that it was fault of the managers only, it was due to a lot of factors - age, decline of players, overreliance in one-dimensional players...

Point is that Allegri fought against this trend, be it making bets in the likes of Boateng, Emanuelson, Nocerino - adding very necessary running/atheticism/movement in the team... Shipping out Pirlo and Ronaldinho, benching players after bad performances...
Even his refusal to make a cheap solution to our attack restricting Pato or Ibra in the box can be seem as a preference for a more fluid attack.
Sven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 17:00   #77
Redman10
AC Milan Icon
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Default

Isn't Ibra the reference point in Allegri system? The squad is built around him which is why he surrounded by hardworking runners instead of a more creative type players. Allegri system is not that much different than the one Mourinho or Mancini ran a couple of years ago which instead of a Boateng you had a Stankovic or even Muntari at AM. I am not criticizing Allegri BTW.
Redman10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 18:02   #78
Sven
Super Moderator
 
Sven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redman10 View Post
Isn't Ibra the reference point in Allegri system? The squad is built around him which is why he surrounded by hardworking runners instead of a more creative type players. Allegri system is not that much different than the one Mourinho or Mancini ran a couple of years ago which instead of a Boateng you had a Stankovic or even Muntari at AM. I am not criticizing Allegri BTW.
I think Ibra is much more of a false 9 now than he was at Inter.
This is why he is not a point of reference, he is hard to mark out cause he play in holes between defenders and DM's, so the CB's need to left their line and push up all the time.

Allegri last season system (with Flamini - Ambro - Gattuso midfield) was close to the Mourinho/Mancini Inter, but not this one IMO.

Milan got creative players. Aquilani is very creative from the midfield and so is Seedorf. Cassano is the creation in person. Robinho ain't an assist machine but he is very creative in the way he create plays.
Sven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 18:48   #79
Senatore_M84
'The King of RnB'
 
Senatore_M84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Fav. Players: Clarence Clyde Seedorf
Default

Mancini's was about wingbacks, compact midfield, and ibra + CF. Made sense, he had maicon, maxwell etc. He lacked real creativity in midfield or attack.

There's a lot more movement in Allegri's system than MAncini's from CM.

We might not have scored a lot of midfield goals last year, but their were ample good opportunities (just misfired... flamini, gattuso, kpb, seedorf). Look at way every player gets atleast 1 good shot from midfield a game.

So far Milan have 11 goals from midfield in 14 serie A games. Huge return based on movement, and inverted creativity. Play to forwards who all hold up well (Zlatan, Robinho, Cassano), albiet in different ways, and pick out a runner.

----

The only calm i have with allegri's system is our inability to consistently hold posession. BUT that's more personnel than system.


Signature
Quote:
Originally Posted by ACmen View Post
Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
Senatore_M84 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-12-2011, 19:53   #80
ELMAGO99
AC Milan Legend
 
ELMAGO99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: NY/IT/CR
Fav. Players: Ibra, Gattuso, Inzaghi, Nesta, Cannavaro, Maldini, Tevez
Default

With our Current Squad:

---------Ibrahimovic--------Pato/Robinho-------------
---------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------Prince-------------------------
------Nocerino----------------------Aquilani------------
--------------------Van Bommel--------------------------
Zambrotta-------------------------------------Abate-----
----------------T.Silva------Nesta------------------------
-----------------------Abbiati---------------------------


My ideal Squad:

------------Ibrahimovic/Pato-----Tevez/Cassano/Robinho------
--------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------Merkel/Prince-------------------------------
----------Nocerino---------------------Prince/Aquilani---------
---------------------------De Rossi--------------------------------
LB---------------------------------------------------------Abate
---------------------TS---------Nesta/Mexes---------------------
---------------------------Abbiati---------------------------------
ELMAGO99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:42.





Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
2002-2011 The Red & Black Forums. These are fan forums and are in no way affiliated with AC Milan S.p.A.