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Old 17-12-2011, 05:48   #81
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I just got an idea in my head after seeing the GDS predicted formations for all the teams in this weekend's matchday. I came across Juve's predicted lineup and bench and couldn't help but notice that Krasic is not injured, but is not predicted to even be on the bench. It seems that he is now Juve's fifth choice winger behind Pepe, Estigarribia, Giaccherini, and now even Elia.

I think that we should make a move for him. Now I don't think he would make a massive difference to us in the Serie A, but in the CL, playing as the attacking midfielder, he could drive us forward with some blistering counter-attacks. This would allow us to sit a little deeper and not put the burden on our possession shy midfield to do all the creating. We could simply sit deep, win the ball back, send it to Krasic to drive forward and be an extremely threatening side.

We have all seen how well we can defend deep (as against Barca in the first leg, against Inter last year in the first Serie A meeting) as it simply suits the makeup of our current midfield.

It would be a throwback to the Milan of old with Kaka in place of Krasic. Albeit that Milan had the ability to retain possession extremely well, so it had the best of both worlds.

He would also give us the option of a natural right sided winger/midfielder which we currently lack. This would allow us to change to a 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 if we want to.

I think we should approach Juve with a 6 month loan, with an option to buy if he performs well. This might just be a temporary solution that would make our flawed side a much more dangerous force in the CL.

It might also be a permanent solution to our attacking midfield position, and with the right reinforcements in midfield we could balance the added counterattacking ability that he would bring, with a midfield 3 that is better at ball retention under pressure. I even think that adding Prince to the midfield in place of Nocerino would make a huge difference in that aspect.

We all know Prince is an extremely strong player and very skilled on the ball. Under pressure he has the ability to body shield the ball or pirouette and play a simple forward pass.

So all in all, I don't think that signing Krasic has any negatives. If we sign him on loan and he doesn't deliver, then we simply ship him back to Juve. Quite simply, it is a win-win situation.
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Old 17-12-2011, 23:02   #82
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I liked last season's Milan much much more than this season's Milan. Last season Milan was solid and effective, this year Milan is entertaining but can't guarantee results. I take results over pretty football any day.
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Old 17-12-2011, 23:56   #83
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I dont think we are that entertaining either, we still play at a very slow pace and often rely on individual quality to get results
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Old 18-12-2011, 00:17   #84
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Last year after 15th stage: 10W 3D 2L 33p 26-12 1st place
This year after 15th stage: 9W 4D 2L 31p 33-16 1st place (till tomorrow)

Pretty much the same as results. The change of midfield mentality (dropping one or even two pure ball winners for one or two more creative ones) works as expected, more goals scores more goals received. And the results are getting better as the team gets more and more used to this new mentality.


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Old 18-12-2011, 00:48   #85
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I liked last season's Milan much much more than this season's Milan. Last season Milan was solid and effective, this year Milan is entertaining but can't guarantee results. I take results over pretty football any day.
When do you think we guaranteed results last season? Not the first half I hope.
The second half wasn't all that convincing either bar the period without Ibra.
I'm convinced we'll finish with more points than last season.
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Old 18-12-2011, 00:49   #86
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I dont think we are that entertaining either, we still play at a very slow pace and often rely on individual quality to get results
Exactly, just much less direct. Last year was long ball to Ibra. This year is sideways passing till the team gets lucky with an individual effort. Not liking it, there needs to be a direct link in this team. Pato should return to form and Boateng should return to shooting. Football is won by scoring not by passing sideways.

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When do you think we guaranteed results last season? Not the first half I hope.
The second half wasn't all that convincing either bar the period without Ibra.
I'm convinced we'll finish with more points than last season.
Napoli away, Cagliari away, Juventus away, fight till the end with Udinese at home, etc. All these are examples of games that Milan won ugly last season. This season way too many points have been wasted by playing pretty like vs Fiorentina or by not showing up like vs Napoli, Juve, Udinese, and Bologna.

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Old 18-12-2011, 00:53   #87
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results over entertaining football? wow.

people are football fans, regardless of the club they support, they watch football to be entertained, if you prefer ugly football just to win trophies then good luck, you must be a really boring person.

Milan have been scoring better this season, but the quality is more or less the same as last season, and many games have been snooze fests.
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Old 18-12-2011, 08:58   #88
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I liked last season's Milan much much more than this season's Milan. Last season Milan was solid and effective, this year Milan is entertaining but can't guarantee results. I take results over pretty football any day.
It's different for me. Yes, agreed that our defence was much more solid last season. A large factor for that was Van Bommel's form. Really wish we could get back to that solidity.

BUT, in offence, I've been much happier this season. Aquilani's and Nocerino's arrival has given us solid options, as opposed to having Ambrosini/Seedorf in the midfield. Both these guys offer alternate ways of scoring goals, and ultimately that's what decides football matches. Kevin-Prince Boateng has stepped up a further gear on his relentless quest to be the best footballer in the planet.

I strongly think that teams should be built defence first, but that's not the thing lacking here. Allegri has built a solid defence, but his DM is going through a bad time at present. The moment either that's settled or we get a better DM, our defence will be back to being solid. The principles should remain intact.

So, this season ahead of last season for me. Simply because of the many more options in attack. And so I think the team is stronger.

Last edited by necromancer; 18-12-2011 at 09:00.
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Old 18-12-2011, 09:13   #89
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It's different for me. Yes, agreed that our defence was much more solid last season. A large factor for that was Van Bommel's form. Really wish we could get back to that solidity.
You don't think it was gattuso?

The ground he covered and tackles he won let both MVB and Thiago/Nesta play a lot smaller roles.

I feel like all our issues with MVB have been centered around fact he's exposed in space w/o a destroyer like Gattuso.


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 18-12-2011, 09:24   #90
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Exactly, just much less direct. Last year was long ball to Ibra. This year is sideways passing till the team gets lucky with an individual effort. Not liking it, there needs to be a direct link in this team. Pato should return to form and Boateng should return to shooting. Football is won by scoring not by passing sideways.



Napoli away, Cagliari away, Juventus away, fight till the end with Udinese at home, etc. All these are examples of games that Milan won ugly last season. This season way too many points have been wasted by playing pretty like vs Fiorentina or by not showing up like vs Napoli, Juve, Udinese, and Bologna.
Napoli away we were a bit lucky since they were one man down in 2nd half. We didn't have the match in control at all before that.

Juventus away was ugly, but we didn't look convincing at all and it looked like a 0-0 match. Rino scored the only goal, that says it all. I'm pretty sure we would've had much easier beating that shitty Juve side playing the way we do now with Aqua-anchor-Noce instead of 3 DMs. That game/performance was very similar to the 2nd Lazio game, which we only drew, and the 1st half of Napoli at home. I'm pretty sure last year's Milan would've lost more points by now.
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Old 18-12-2011, 09:41   #91
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You don't think it was gattuso?

The ground he covered and tackles he won let both MVB and Thiago/Nesta play a lot smaller roles.

I feel like all our issues with MVB have been centered around fact he's exposed in space w/o a destroyer like Gattuso.
Not particularly. Gattuso for me contributed much more in the attacking phase last season. Yes, his ability to move the play away from our half allowed our defense to prosper. But MvB is still the main reason why we were so solid.
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Old 18-12-2011, 11:15   #92
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What do worry me is that our team looks extremly disjointed at times and how Siena with ease could stroll past our midfield. When we have faced better opposition, Napoli, Juve, this has become painfully clear. And I honestly it doesnt look good for the UCL, but I guess I deep down knew this when failed horribly in the mercato
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Old 19-12-2011, 00:01   #93
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It's different for me. Yes, agreed that our defence was much more solid last season. A large factor for that was Van Bommel's form. Really wish we could get back to that solidity.

BUT, in offence, I've been much happier this season. Aquilani's and Nocerino's arrival has given us solid options, as opposed to having Ambrosini/Seedorf in the midfield. Both these guys offer alternate ways of scoring goals, and ultimately that's what decides football matches. Kevin-Prince Boateng has stepped up a further gear on his relentless quest to be the best footballer in the planet.

I strongly think that teams should be built defence first, but that's not the thing lacking here. Allegri has built a solid defence, but his DM is going through a bad time at present. The moment either that's settled or we get a better DM, our defence will be back to being solid. The principles should remain intact.

So, this season ahead of last season for me. Simply because of the many more options in attack. And so I think the team is stronger.
I'm not sure if the team is stronger, but it definitely has more options. However, last season the team was much more ruthless. I do agree with your points though. Last season Van Bommel was huge, he was dominant and instantly transformed Milan's defense into IMO the strongest in Europe from January till the end of the season. Though I do agree with Senatore that I think you're underrating Rino's contribution.

The thing is, it's pretty simple. Instead of a ball winning CM that allowed Van Bommel to sit a bit deeper and same for the defense, Milan push up way higher and leave gaps in midfield as Aquilani and Nocerino open up wide, thus leaving Van Bommel to press as high as at the center circle, which forces the team to be exposed a lot.

It was obvious since the Napoli game and it's still going on till now. Gattuso's absence, the change in playing style, and in a way the decline of Van Bommel have contributed to a confused defense.

And what makes matters worse is that the attack is far from perfect. It looks entertaining at times, and it is very dominant, but not direct enough. Ibra now plays too pretty, Boateng is becoming immense but hasn't been shooting as much, and Robinho is wasteful while Pato is off form. So many chances are wasted, which added to struggling in the defensive phase, makes for an inconsistent team.

To make a long story short, I trusted Milan's team last season much more. I always had confidence they could get the result, I'm not sure that's the case this season. Though, the current Milan has a higher potential if some areas are fixed.

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Napoli away we were a bit lucky since they were one man down in 2nd half. We didn't have the match in control at all before that.

Juventus away was ugly, but we didn't look convincing at all and it looked like a 0-0 match. Rino scored the only goal, that says it all. I'm pretty sure we would've had much easier beating that shitty Juve side playing the way we do now with Aqua-anchor-Noce instead of 3 DMs. That game/performance was very similar to the 2nd Lazio game, which we only drew, and the 1st half of Napoli at home. I'm pretty sure last year's Milan would've lost more points by now.
Exactly. Milan didn't necessarily always play well or deserve to win, but the players always knew how to grind out results. This season I feel at times I'm watching Arsenal; trying too hard to score a beautiful goal and wasting points on draws or defeats by not converting chances and amateurishly conceding.
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Old 19-12-2011, 01:31   #94
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Not particularly. Gattuso for me contributed much more in the attacking phase last season. Yes, his ability to move the play away from our half allowed our defense to prosper. But MvB is still the main reason why we were so solid.
Maybe.

However looking at it-

Last year, Pirlo @ Anchor- conceded 18 goals in 17 matches. (1.06)
MVB @ Anchor- conceded 6 in 13 matches. (0.46)

Gattuso was a constant for both (missed a couple odd matches with each but generally always started)

MVB this year- 19 goals in 15 matches- 1.27 a match

MVB without Gattuso is basically making us as vunerable at the pirlo/gattuso combo was in their last year. The numbers suggest worse but obviously their are other factors.

Yes MVB is much better defensive than Pirlo. But, his range is limited and he benefited majorly from Rino's workrate and ability to constantly stop counters and win balls up the pitch. He didn't have to cover as much ground.

Without Rino we are looking just as vunerable as we looked pre-mvb.

--

Think rino's contributions last year are criminally underrated around these parts. Let everyone else play more controlled which ultimately made us unpenetrable. We're not getting anywhere near the same work fro nocerino on that side of the ball

--

Ultimately hoping a younger more active anchor can replace the impact both gattuso and mvb had last year.


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB
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Old 19-12-2011, 06:38   #95
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Maybe.

However looking at it-

Last year, Pirlo @ Anchor- conceded 18 goals in 17 matches. (1.06)
MVB @ Anchor- conceded 6 in 13 matches. (0.46)

Gattuso was a constant for both (missed a couple odd matches with each but generally always started)

MVB this year- 19 goals in 15 matches- 1.27 a match

MVB without Gattuso is basically making us as vunerable at the pirlo/gattuso combo was in their last year. The numbers suggest worse but obviously their are other factors.

Yes MVB is much better defensive than Pirlo. But, his range is limited and he benefited majorly from Rino's workrate and ability to constantly stop counters and win balls up the pitch. He didn't have to cover as much ground.

Without Rino we are looking just as vunerable as we looked pre-mvb.

--

Think rino's contributions last year are criminally underrated around these parts. Let everyone else play more controlled which ultimately made us unpenetrable. We're not getting anywhere near the same work fro nocerino on that side of the ball

--

Ultimately hoping a younger more active anchor can replace the impact both gattuso and mvb had last year.
Your stats clearly back up my view that MvB is far more key than Gattuso. 6 in 13 is just a different league from 18 in 17. The variable between the two is an in-form MvB.

I know that Gattuso is under-rated around here. I'd written about it in the past. For me, Gattuso's offensive contribution was critical last season, simply because he won the ball in excellent areas for us.

But defensively, it was significantly MvB, Silva and Nesta.
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Old 19-12-2011, 16:36   #96
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Your stats clearly back up my view that MvB is far more key than Gattuso. 6 in 13 is just a different league from 18 in 17. The variable between the two is an in-form MvB.

I know that Gattuso is under-rated around here. I'd written about it in the past. For me, Gattuso's offensive contribution was critical last season, simply because he won the ball in excellent areas for us.

But defensively, it was significantly MvB, Silva and Nesta.
Think my english was unclear.

My point was Gattuso and MVB formed an amazing partnership. Instead of Gattuso having to compensate for Pirlo (who is also underrated defensively, though by no means a DM), he could play his game, and MVB would tidy up.

This year without Gattuso, MVB is having to do more, cover more space and he's being exposed.

I don't buy that MVB's declined. He was the same way for Bayern last season. But when he came into Milan he had to cover significantly less space.

Without Gattuso, he's requires to cover more because Nocerino and Aquilani are not giving same contributions Gattuso did.


You're right about his offensive contributions, but you also know how many attacks he stops before it gets to MVB/CB positions.

Basically, I'm just saying Rino's the main missing piece from our great defense second half of last year and the leaky one today. More so than some MVB decline.

--

so moving forward, Milan either need to replace MVB with a world class anchor player who can do what he does but with more mobility (good luck finding that) or, find a competent Gattuso replacement, which will be hard. Would love Nianggolan, a more competent passing player than Gattuso but still wins plenty of balls (approximately double nocerino and more than double flamini was last year) but a good passer.

Or they need to get more defensive help higher up the pitch, with Boateng, Nocerino, Aquilani not being lazy (something they'll do from time to time)


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
#RnB

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Old 19-12-2011, 18:04   #97
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Milan is leaking more goals this season cause defensively the midfield is not as solid as last year. Gattuso absence and MVB form both contributing factors which causes the backline to struggle.
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Old 19-12-2011, 18:38   #98
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Think my english was unclear.

My point was Gattuso and MVB formed an amazing partnership. Instead of Gattuso having to compensate for Pirlo (who is also underrated defensively, though by no means a DM), he could play his game, and MVB would tidy up.

This year without Gattuso, MVB is having to do more, cover more space and he's being exposed.

I don't buy that MVB's declined. He was the same way for Bayern last season. But when he came into Milan he had to cover significantly less space.

Without Gattuso, he's requires to cover more because Nocerino and Aquilani are not giving same contributions Gattuso did.


You're right about his offensive contributions, but you also know how many attacks he stops before it gets to MVB/CB positions.

Basically, I'm just saying Rino's the main missing piece from our great defense second half of last year and the leaky one today. More so than some MVB decline.

--

so moving forward, Milan either need to replace MVB with a world class anchor player who can do what he does but with more mobility (good luck finding that) or, find a competent Gattuso replacement, which will be hard. Would love Nianggolan, a more competent passing player than Gattuso but still wins plenty of balls (approximately double nocerino and more than double flamini was last year) but a good passer.

Or they need to get more defensive help higher up the pitch, with Boateng, Nocerino, Aquilani not being lazy (something they'll do from time to time)
Hey, of course we are missing Gattuso, note that I havent denied it. But he wasnt the main reason for our defensive solidity, that's all. Anyway, no further point to the discussion because you can keep going back to the bolded part here and unless we agree there, I can't state my point.

Van Bommel was in much better form last season and that is primarily the reason why we are conceding more now. Gattuso comes after.
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Old 19-12-2011, 18:47   #99
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Hey, of course we are missing Gattuso, note that I havent denied it. But he wasnt the main reason for our defensive solidity, that's all. Anyway, no further point to the discussion because you can keep going back to the bolded part here and unless we agree there, I can't state my point.

Van Bommel was in much better form last season and that is primarily the reason why we are conceding more now. Gattuso comes after.
fair enough.

I guess my question to you (to try and simplify it), how much of MVB's form is decline, or how much of it is simply having to do more/cover more ground without Gattuso?

In my opinion it's the latter. He was great last year cause he didn't have to do a lot... or cover a lot, i mean, and what he covered he dominated. Without Gattuso more space, natural exposure to errors since he's not quick


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Only Milan can punish it's own fans by qualifying for CL. I'm off to sleep, another year wasted. When will this fucker be fired..
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Old 19-12-2011, 18:59   #100
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fair enough.

I guess my question to you (to try and simplify it), how much of MVB's form is decline, or how much of it is simply having to do more/cover more ground without Gattuso?

In my opinion it's the latter. He was great last year cause he didn't have to do a lot... or cover a lot, i mean, and what he covered he dominated. Without Gattuso more space, natural exposure to errors since he's not quick
Yes. Ultimately the question is whether we'd sacrifice a late runner who's scoring regularly (Nocerino) for more defensive work (Gattuso). That's an interesting choice that Allegri will have to make in the latter part of the season.

It should depend on the opposition - the way football is being played in Europe at present, I wont be surprised if he picks Noce for CL and Gattuso (maybe) for Serie A matches. That's probably how I'd pick.
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