Clarence Seedorf Thread

Senatore_M84 · May 10, 2012

USC said:
While none of us ACTUALLY know what has happened and we are all making our own judgments on what happened with Seedorf, there is a line and there are some crossing it.

I will paraphrase and modify a line from the film Troy to discuss Seedorf. Hector (Rino, Ambrosini, Nesta, etc) fight for their country; Achilles (Seedorf) fights only for himself.

Above all, I believe that Seedorf played for himself and only had his best interests in mind. Is there anything wrong with that? Debatable, but highly subjective.

I'm glad to see Seedorf go as I don't believe that he has been of value to this club for a very long time. He has a future in football as he's a pretty bright guy, but I hope that future is with another club. His past contributions have been darkened by his recent contributions, which is partially sad, partially predictable.

Remember - you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

i'm counting 3 movie references...

troy, the dark knight and righteous kill?

jammin · May 10, 2012

Dravidian said:
Nope. No one puts the club's interest above their own - not even the ones you mentioned. These are professionals, some may however stretch to the extent of not working against the interest of the club as much as possible.

Maldini was netting massive salary & had practically a blemish free career. He was never offered low wages, nor was he benched. Rino obviously doesn't want to feel like a burden but at the same time, has been saying that he doesn't want to sit on the bench. Same with Sandro.

Ambrosini is the only one who can come close to your description as he has I believe said that he wants to stay no matter what & has accepted bench role graciously even after being club captain. But then again, Ambro knows he is no Maldini/Nesta/Seedorf.

what i meant to say, was some value their clubs more so than others.

sorry, that post was quite badly worded. :lol:

Christian · May 10, 2012

Senatore_M84 said:
i'm counting 3 movie references...

troy, the dark knight and righteous kill?

Not very much inside in football though

Great movie knowledge :thumbsup:

necromancer · May 10, 2012

AllTfatChildren said:
dont knit pick. u know the point i made.

nitpick*

****

Any sensible fellow knows that Clarentino plays for himself, yes. As I've myself been saying here hundred times, he lazes around in the weekly unflashy games. This is certainly not an ideal professional attitude.

But having said that, the critics are undermining the role a 'leader' plays in the dressing room and on the pitch. Since Maldini left, Seedorf has been a top leader for Milan - defusing situations, calming things down etc etc.. And that's something you expect from a leader.

I see no reason to abuse him when he's leaving. Any fan who has enjoyed Milan's successes under Ancelotti is simply being ungrateful by abusing any of those great players.

Of course, I'm relieved to see him finally leaving - should have done so a couple of seasons ago. And like I said before, be UEFA Prez as soon as possible. Then heat balls used for draws suitably enough to give us brilliant groups.

kakajd · May 10, 2012

USC said:
Remember - you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.

What is that from? BAtman?

Awesome statement, and completely relevant. Unfortunately, seedorf has long stayed past being a hero......

Dravidian · May 10, 2012

kakajd said:
What is that from? BAtman?

Awesome statement, and completely relevant. Unfortunately, seedorf has long stayed past being a hero......

Yup the final dialogue of The Dark Knight. oops.. harvey dent did indeed say that

derpu · May 10, 2012

^

Harvey Dent in Dark Knight.
-----

Well actually it was said for the first time in the middle of the movie

But yeah it is also the final dialogue

Dravidian · May 10, 2012

Depreciation said:
^

Harvey Dent in Dark Knight.
-----

Well actually it was said for the first time in the middle of the movie But yeah it is also the final dialogue

Yeah. I mixed up the dialogues. I liked the last dialogue - a hero that gotham deserves but does not need. I need to see it again now.

Casualista · May 10, 2012

necromancer said:
nitpick*

****

Any sensible fellow knows that Clarentino plays for himself, yes. As I've myself been saying here hundred times, he lazes around in the weekly unflashy games. This is certainly not an ideal professional attitude.

But having said that, the critics are undermining the role a 'leader' plays in the dressing room and on the pitch. Since Maldini left, Seedorf has been a top leader for Milan - defusing situations, calming things down etc etc.. And that's something you expect from a leader.

I see no reason to abuse him when he's leaving. Any fan who has enjoyed Milan's successes under Ancelotti is simply being ungrateful by abusing any of those great players.

Of course, I'm relieved to see him finally leaving - should have done so a couple of seasons ago. And like I said before, be UEFA Prez as soon as possible. Then heat balls used for draws suitably enough to give us brilliant groups.

you need to realize that i have very firm views on what kind of players i like and the only ones that have ever mattered to me are the ones who have worn the shirt giving 100% regardless of their background or talent.
It is the reason why i have had a problem with Pirlo for a long time and it is the reason why I dislike seedorf and even Pato for his conduct recently. I feel no reason to act in modesty otherwise.

Success is important yes. I rate success over brand of football. Effectivness over number of passes but as far as rating individuals go i really dont care if the are mercs but when they put on the milan shirt I expect 100% every time.

Dravidian · May 10, 2012

AllTfatChildren said:
you need to realize that i have very firm views on what kind of players i like and the only ones that have ever mattered to me are the ones who have worn the shirt giving 100% regardless of their background or talent.
It is the reason why i have had a problem with Pirlo for a long time and it is the reason why I dislike seedorf and even Pato for his conduct recently. I feel no reason to act in modesty otherwise.

Success is important yes. I rate success over brand of football. Effectivness over number of passes but as far as rating individuals go i really dont care if the are mercs but when they put on the milan shirt I expect 100% every time.

But your view is based on perceived effort.

What is the basis for your claim that Pirlo didn't put in 100%? Has Pirlo changed his playing style after moving from Milan to Juve? He may have needed change of scenery to rejuvenate - but surely he wasn't thinking "I'll just kick 4 or 5 balls" and then rest for a while in the centre of the pitch.

Pirlo might have run around and attempted to kick opponents and fail at it. Dorf could have attempted slick passes as soon as he got the ball and misplaced 95% of them. What good would that have brought?

Dorf's ability is different from Rino's or Flamini's or Abate's. But I have not seen evidence to suggest that he didn't want to do all in his powers to win matches.

Edit: Constructed the last sentence with Pirlo in mind

Redman10 · May 10, 2012

No one said anything about his commitment or laziness. Seedorf plays when he wants too. He tries for certain teams even his most loyal of defenders would admit that. I can't respect someone who tries when he feels like it and then when they bench him for poor play. He bitching to the media, bitching about fans booing him and throwing temper tantrums like when Carlo sub him off for Pato against Fiorentina.

Good Riddance, I say.

Sage · May 10, 2012

he sure as hell runs more for jube, that's for sure.

Casualista · May 10, 2012

I dont think its remotely debatable on effort pirlo was putting in at milan if
a) seeing the effort he is putting in at juve now compared to what he has been doing for milan for around half a decade.
b) him coming out himself and saying that he felt unmotivated.

I dont think its possible to give 100% if you arent driven.

peep · May 10, 2012

I'll never understand the constant defense of Seedorf. never.

Ashish · May 10, 2012

I am not going ot abuse him

but i want him to leave gracefully which is nto possible now

its all his fault..

Grazie clarence kardashian

Dravidian · May 10, 2012

Yeah. I see that I have changed the topic to Pirlo. Tried to correct it but too late. ANyway the two are interlinked.

Anyway, Pirlo always had high numbers in the marathon list. you might have called it jogging or whatever. But the rest of the Milan team were never mobile - so you cannot blame him alone. He needs runners around him as others have repeatedly said on this forum.

This is what I meant by perceived effort. Did Pirlo hold back an attacking intent by not giving the ball to a forward placed person who could receive the ball to launch an attack? Not often in my view. And that is because there weren't a lot of others upfield.

Other Juve players run a lot. So he has to option to push along. You cannot expect Pirlo to be Kaka or Boateng. That is just plain stupid.

necromancer · May 10, 2012

AllTfatChildren said:
I dont think its remotely debatable on effort pirlo was putting in at milan if
a) seeing the effort he is putting in at juve now compared to what he has been doing for milan for around half a decade.
b) him coming out himself and saying that he felt unmotivated.

I dont think its possible to give 100% if you arent driven.

I disagree strongly with (a) but I dont think there's any use in debating with you on this topic (Half a decade? Are you kidding me?). You are speculating a LOT in fact - but forget it. Pointless discussion.

I'm not insistent on players being intensely focused and giving 100% and sweating blood on the field and things like that. It's a game. I love watching great players play. Both Pirlo and Seedorf gave their best years and a lot of great moments with Milan. Seedorf milked a couple of years more than he should have - a real proud man like Nesta wouldnt have and is not doing that. That is all.

Redman10 · May 10, 2012

I have said if it came down to Seedorf or Pirlo who I would keep would be Pirlo.
Pirlo to me wasn't lazy or playing with a lack of effort. He just wasn't playing well. If it was Man U, Pirlo was average. If it was Leece, Pirlo was average. Seedorf on the other hand all of sudden looks like the best midfielder in the world versus the best teams and then looks like he just learn to kick a futbol versus others.

Sod-Lod · May 10, 2012

AC Milan News ‏ @Milanello

Nesta: "To start a new winning cycle, Milan must find the right people. People like Pirlo and Seedorf who have done so much for Milan."

Casualista · May 10, 2012

I judge pirlo's effort by pirlo's standard. There is a clear difference in how he has performed for juve this season and how he performed for Milan.

Its a story of contradiction really. You just need to scroll back a couple of hundred pages and start reading a random page and you will see that his performances were going down, he was becoming an even bigger liability in front of defense making very callous errors and his overall his effort was going down compared to previous seasons.

But that is all irrelevant if the man himself said he is demotivated to play for Milan. No demotivated man doing his job can give 100%. His words are more than enough for me to prove my perceptions.

Dravidian · May 10, 2012

Redman10 said:
I have said if it came down to Seedorf or Pirlo who I would keep would be Pirlo.
Pirlo to me wasn't lazy or playing with a lack of effort. He just wasn't playing well. If it was Man U, Pirlo was average. If it was Leece, Pirlo was average. Seedorf on the other hand all of sudden looks like the best midfielder in the world versus the best teams and then looks like he just learn to kick a futbol versus others.

Easily explained. Dorf slows the game down to his pace. It works in big games as the opponents are also looking to create. He can just put a burst of pace / powerful shot (along with terrific ball control) that catches everyone out. Against a Lecce that parks the bus, it is a different ball game - he has to open up the defense of a team that is already playing slow. Again illusion of not putting in effort.

ladro · May 10, 2012

Considering his wage and how little motivation he showed in most matches (complete lack of respect towards the club even thoe i can get how a man that won everything there is to win cant be all that enthusiastic for your average match but CMON, he simply should have shown more respect towards the fans and his employer) and not to mentioned what a bitch he was TWICE this year when allegri rightfully benched his ass i cant honestly say i respect him anywhere near as high as any other long serving senatore that may leave this club this summer.

Seedorf was in the past few years much like ronaldinho TBH. Both considering their wage showed not anywhere near enough respect towards the club, didnt care enough. I guess the only thing in defense of Seedorf is that he really gave his best years while dinho didnt.

BUT, forgetting his very poor last few years, seedorf has still done more for milan than many of the players we have now so in that sense i thank him. 2 CLs and 2 scudettos are no small achievement.

Hopefully this talk in the media about Allegri not even calling him up for is last game :fp:

is false. Seedorf is in a way a milan legend while you havent yet done jack shit 4 milan or football in general Allegri. Go fuck yourself if you really dont end up letting him play.

Casualista · May 10, 2012

@necro.

Maybe its just a game but its how i feel the game should be played or any work undertaken done. Without compromise on effort. Its just the way i believe football players need to conduct themselves on the pitch. They owe it to the fans, they owe it to the club who pays them and looks after them and they owe it to the sport.

Wouldnt u want to see a more committed robinho? A more disciplined dinho playing for your team when fans pay good hard earned money to watch you?

Congo Powers · May 10, 2012

all of you who say one negative thing about seedorf can suck my cock

i repeat:

seedorf haters, suck my cock.

99% of you people here are idiots and know nothing about football

Dravidian · May 10, 2012

AllTfatChildren said:
I judge pirlo's effort by pirlo's standard. There is a clear difference in how he has performed for juve this season and how he performed for Milan.

Its a story of contradiction really. You just need to scroll back a couple of hundred pages and start reading a random page and you will see that his performances were going down, he was becoming an even bigger liability in front of defense making very callous errors and his overall his effort was going down compared to previous seasons.

But that is all irrelevant if the man himself said he is demotivated to play for Milan. No demotivated man doing his job can give 100%. His words are more than enough for me to prove my perceptions.

Are you speaking to yourself? Coz if you are responding to me , you need to only scroll one page to read my opinion on Pirlo's demotivation.

He said he needed new challenges - right. He was honest about it. But it wasn't as if he said he was demotivated at Milan and didn't put in effort which is what you are implying.

Casualista · May 10, 2012

Dravidian said:
Are you speaking to yourself? Coz if you are responding to me , you need to only scroll one page to read my opinion on Pirlo's demotivation.

He said he needed new challenges - right. He was honest about it. But it wasn't as if he said he was demotivated at Milan and didn't put in effort which is what you are implying.

http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/ital...ess-proves-i-am-still-number-one-claims-pirlo

"I wanted to win and I did. I left Milan because I needed more motivation in my career, so I chose Juve and bought into their project.

Anyway

necromancer · May 10, 2012

Illadro80 said:
Hopefully this talk in the media about Allegri not even calling him up for is last game is false. Seedorf is in a way a milan legend while you havent yet done jack shit 4 milan or football in general Allegri. Go fuck yourself if you really dont end up letting him play.

Absolutely correct. Allegri really would be a slightly deluded bastard if he doesnt call him up for a final farewell. Provided Seedorf wants to, that is.

AllTfatChildren said:
@necro.

Maybe its just a game but its how i feel the game should be played or any work undertaken done. Without compromise on effort. Its just the way i believe football players need to conduct themselves on the pitch. They owe it to the fans, they owe it to the club who pays them and looks after them and they owe it to the sport.

Wouldnt u want to see a more committed robinho? A more disciplined dinho playing for your team when fans pay good hard earned money to watch you?

I totally do not resonate with the way you view football or any other work. This is not a military drill that's happening here. This is a game that you should enjoy when you play, thereby transmitting that enjoyment to your fans. That doesnt mean you can laze around, but that also doesnt mean 100% effort is the be all and end all. I would naturally like to see players give their all on the field, but if they occasionally don't, I completely understand as they are human beings.

Motivations are key for human beings, and if Seedorf gets motivated only by the Champions League music, so be it. I would love watching him in those matches. He has been key to at least the 07 CL if not the 03 CL.

And this is a man who has won 4 Champions League trophies with 3 different teams. The top 4 teams in EPL put together does not have that kinda numbers.

What I'm saying is - 100% effort is great, but not a dealbreaker for me. If you entertain me while playing for my favourite club, and if you help the club in winning trophies, you are a legend in my eye.

And of course, one can be purely aesthetic as well. A Pirlo playing at 50% is still a far better treat to watch than a Van Bommel or a Nocerino or a Muntari playing at 100%. But that's a different discussion.

Christian · May 10, 2012

Congo Powers said:
all of you who say one negative thing about seedorf can suck my cock

i repeat:

seedorf haters, suck my cock.

99% of you people here are idiots and know nothing about football

+1

Suck my cock 2 haters

Dravidian · May 10, 2012

AllTfatChildren said:
http://www.goal.com/en/news/10/ital...ess-proves-i-am-still-number-one-claims-pirlo

Anyway

I have read that earlier. Thank you. It down't make shit difference to what I commented. he wasn't deliberately underperforming - it is like playing with an injury that you do not immediately feel. The demotivation clearly ebbed from frustration of not being able to contribute the way he used to.

Btw, I don't need you to tell me how people on this forum have commented on Pirlo's lack of performance. I have been browsing this forum ages before your join date & joined primarily to actually be able to read the sensible posts given that they were so few to spot at the time of my join date (yeah Pirlo departure).

It is a shame that quiet a few generally good posters post this hate garbage in specific threads making them unreadable. Check the current state of Pirlo thread or the old state of the Sheva thread. The Sheva thread could at least be viewed as caused by"hurt". But the Pirlo / Dorf threads are just distasteful.

Ashish · May 10, 2012

I wont be bashing him since he is leaving ... I would even forget and try not to remember bad things about him

unless some son of a bitch brings in this forum.

I like this dude even though he was ..... for last few tears .. grazie 400+ matches :rolleyes:

how did i withstand this

NOw platini is fucked

Clarence Seedorf Thread

When will he get rid of the black scarf?

Never. It'll define his coaching career.

Next time Balotelli hits the wall in a free-kick. He will proceed to strangle Mario with it.

When clocks are advanced for Summer Time. In a week.

End of the season.

Milan Legend

pour l'éternité

Milan Legend

Lo Stile di Pioli

Milan Legend

Primavera

Milan Legend

Primavera

Monsieur

Primavera

Milan Legend

Phase 3

Monsieur

Banned

Milan Legend

Primavera

Lo Stile di Pioli

Milan Legend

Milanese Dominator

Monsieur

Primavera

Milan Legend

Monsieur

⭐⭐

Primavera

Monsieur

Lo Stile di Pioli

Milan Legend

Primavera

Milan Legend