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Old 03-12-2017, 16:01   #2781
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That's true. He's not the worst or the best of our defenders. For me, Zapata should play ahead of Musacchio. Our best setup has been Romagnoli-Bonucci-Zapata which looked solid in the last few Montella matches.


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Old 03-12-2017, 16:23   #2782
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He is important for being left-footed alone
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Old 03-12-2017, 16:49   #2783
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Originally Posted by necromancer View Post
That's true. He's not the worst or the best of our defenders. For me, Zapata should play ahead of Musacchio. Our best setup has been Romagnoli-Bonucci-Zapata which looked solid in the last few Montella matches.
We should not play 3 man defense and we should not play romagnoli.

Nothing complex here. Just like mexes if he isn't scoring, he is a liability. A nice, slow moving car crash.
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Old 03-12-2017, 17:28   #2784
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> wrongful red card
> "own club" fans start talking about mistake



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Old 03-12-2017, 17:40   #2785
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> wrongful red card
> "own club" fans start talking about mistake

Romagnoli is the least of our problems
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Old 03-12-2017, 18:57   #2786
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We should not play 3 man defense and we should not play romagnoli.



Nothing complex here. Just like mexes if he isn't scoring, he is a liability. A nice, slow moving car crash.


This is just nonsensical really. 3-men defense suits our players well and Romagnoli is certainly the best pick for the left sided position. Your view is as extreme as the delusional fanboy view.


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Old 03-12-2017, 20:31   #2787
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This is just nonsensical really. 3-men defense suits our players well and Romagnoli is certainly the best pick for the left sided position. Your view is as extreme as the delusional fanboy view.
I would say wrong. 3-men defense suits us only because of Bonucci. If there was no Bonucci on the team there would be no discussions of playing 3 man on the back. If would be 4 all the time. Now if Conti was healthy, yes I would say 3 man on the back would be more suitable because it would suit more than 1 player.


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Old 03-12-2017, 20:41   #2788
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3-men defense suits our players well

Alright, I am convinced.

Clearly, I have come to the wrong conclusion from Milan's 8th position and loss/tactical failure in every big game that we are in a system that's well suited for us.

A system which literally just 3 of our players (not even the coach) are familiar with before Milan (Bonucci, Conti, Kessie. RR at Wolfsburg but he failed).

All other players have achieved their modicum of success in 4-man variants. Success they are clearly unable to replicate in 3 man systems.

Milan shares absolutely no characteristic familiar with successful (semi-successful) 3 man systems like Chelsea or Juve - strong, fast, physical wing backs and wingers, proper regista and holding midfielders, competent target man.

I mean, we did change our "well" suited system 21 times in 21 games and the only position we settled on was Borini should be right wing back.

But I am now convinced otherwise.
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Old 03-12-2017, 22:23   #2789
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Alright, I am convinced.

Clearly, I have come to the wrong conclusion from Milan's 8th position and loss/tactical failure in every big game that we are in a system that's well suited for us.

A system which literally just 3 of our players (not even the coach) are familiar with before Milan (Bonucci, Conti, Kessie. RR at Wolfsburg but he failed).

All other players have achieved their modicum of success in 4-man variants. Success they are clearly unable to replicate in 3 man systems.

Milan shares absolutely no characteristic familiar with successful (semi-successful) 3 man systems like Chelsea or Juve - strong, fast, physical wing backs and wingers, proper regista and holding midfielders, competent target man.

I mean, we did change our "well" suited system 21 times in 21 games and the only position we settled on was Borini should be right wing back.

But I am now convinced otherwise.
Gattuso played 3-4-3 with the teams he coached. Biglia has experience with 3 at the back too.

I would´t mind going back to 4-3-3 as I always liked that system. It´s funny how the majority of the forum hated on it and wished for 3 at the back. Now going back to 4 at the back will not solve our problems like 3 at the back did not when everybody cried for it.
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Old 03-12-2017, 22:45   #2790
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Gattuso played 3-4-3 with the teams he coached. Biglia has experience with 3 at the back too.

I would´t mind going back to 4-3-3 as I always liked that system. It´s funny how the majority of the forum hated on it and wished for 3 at the back. Now going back to 4 at the back will not solve our problems like 3 at the back did not when everybody cried for it.
If biglia had worked out then this system would be worth giving a shot. But it's clear he is clueless and with conti's injury it's more incentive to drop the system.

Change to a 3 man on a full time basis was knee jerk caused by lazio loss, anyway. Which was more down to Calabria than formation. Obviously, the system was probably in the pipeline the moment bonucci was bought but it was clearly premature to be implementing it in the league.

And pretty much every game since has been a testament to the fact that we can't play 3 at the back.

4-3-3 is the way to go. Unfortunately, it means seeing abate again .. But it is what it is ..

Last edited by Casualista; 03-12-2017 at 22:49.
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Old 03-12-2017, 22:47   #2791
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Wrongful red, why didn't the ref use VAR?!


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Old 03-12-2017, 23:32   #2792
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He's still my boy
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Old 03-12-2017, 23:34   #2793
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First yellow was soft too!


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Old 04-12-2017, 06:06   #2794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Casualista View Post
Alright, I am convinced.



Clearly, I have come to the wrong conclusion from Milan's 8th position and loss/tactical failure in every big game that we are in a system that's well suited for us.



A system which literally just 3 of our players (not even the coach) are familiar with before Milan (Bonucci, Conti, Kessie. RR at Wolfsburg but he failed).



All other players have achieved their modicum of success in 4-man variants. Success they are clearly unable to replicate in 3 man systems.



Milan shares absolutely no characteristic familiar with successful (semi-successful) 3 man systems like Chelsea or Juve - strong, fast, physical wing backs and wingers, proper regista and holding midfielders, competent target man.



I mean, we did change our "well" suited system 21 times in 21 games and the only position we settled on was Borini should be right wing back.



But I am now convinced otherwise.


You are perhaps unaware that Zapata had his best phase of his career, and was one of the best in the league, playing in a 3-man.

RicRod is the only one who isn't appropriate for the 3-5-2 in fact. Romagnoli, Bonucci, Zapata and Conti are all well suited for it.


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Old 04-12-2017, 08:52   #2795
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You are perhaps unaware that Zapata had his best phase of his career, and was one of the best in the league, playing in a 3-man.

RicRod is the only one who isn't appropriate for the 3-5-2 in fact. Romagnoli, Bonucci, Zapata and Conti are all well suited for it.
I think you are unaware that :
1) if a formation suits our players it should suit more people than our defenders.
2) especially if one of those defenders isn't a starter and the other is injured.
3) when has romagnoli performed well in a 3 man? Please dont respond italy.

It's really an open and shut case that Milan are incapable of playing 3 at the back with their current line up. No wingers, no proper wing backs, overrun midfield which can't hold possession of the ball exposing our technically naive cbs, no real wingers who know how to create width and stretch plays, no reliable target man, no capable dm.

At least in a 4 man the midfield is packed enough to protect our cbs and wing backs, and our wingers don't need to play out of character.

But there really isn't any point going into excruciating detail here. Our well suited system literally got exposed by the worst team in serie A history.

Last edited by Casualista; 04-12-2017 at 08:57.
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Old 04-12-2017, 11:42   #2796
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I think you missed the last month of football. We were visibly improving in defense since Bonucci came back from his suspension, and all were playing fairly well. Our problems were almost entirely offensive.

Yesterday's match of course was a disastrous reversal of this.


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Old 04-12-2017, 12:40   #2797
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I think you missed last week where we sacked a coach.
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Old 04-12-2017, 12:59   #2798
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Originally Posted by necromancer View Post
You are perhaps unaware that Zapata had his best phase of his career, and was one of the best in the league, playing in a 3-man.

RicRod is the only one who isn't appropriate for the 3-5-2 in fact. Romagnoli, Bonucci, Zapata and Conti are all well suited for it.
A 3 men defense isn't just about defenders, it's about midfield as well.
We managed to upgrade some players, but overall our midfield is worse than last year.

We fail to protect the defense in the center, and on the wings we keep getting caught out of position and our 3 defenders stretched are exposed like fuck.

Like I said in the match thread, we changed way too much tactically for no apparent reason.
Last year our team worked in many ways.
We threw out everything we had last year and started from scratch.


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Last edited by forward; 04-12-2017 at 13:04.
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Old 04-12-2017, 13:50   #2799
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You guys are putting too much emphasis on the formation. When season started, I didn't want us to move to a 3-man defence, because to me that was not a priority. The important thing was to get the basic tactics right which would allow us to score goals. The off-the-ball stuff which we've been lacking in for years now. Then Montella moved to a 3-5-2 and now the players seem used to it. And again, it's not a priority for me to change the formation. The impact of formations have been really over-rated in football discussions nowadays.

What is important is that we are still not doing anything off-the-ball, we still do not have 2-3 players who are guarantees in front of the goal. Unless we fix these issues, nothing will change no matter how many times you change the formation. And no, changing the formation is not a way to fix these issues. These issues have to do with mentality and effort and need a manager who can drill down the message to the players that we aren't gonna get anywhere unless we put in a lot of effort when we don't have the ball.

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Old 08-12-2017, 00:15   #2800
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"Thankfully" we will play the next two matches without Ale.
So, we will see how our defense holds up without him.


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