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Old 23-02-2020, 07:42   #741
necromancer
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Default Week 25: Fiorentina - Milan 22/2/20 20.45 CET

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Originally Posted by Goodfella View Post
I don't think he's stupid enough to do that.

With players like Ibra it's their way or the highway. It's a sacrifice you need to make if you want them in the team.
Mourinho even specified this as the reason he rejected Ibra this winter. And now he's complaining about his lack of striker options.

For Pioli there's hardly any sacrifice.
Even a fatigued, unbenchable 38 yo Ibra is better than having Piatek. And let's not act like Leao has made a positive impact as sub lately.


Leao isnít anywhere near the level required to change a game for us. Nor is Paqueta obviously. Which is why our squad is just a shadow of a squad at present. Itís a poorly constructed mess. Going from dependable bench options like Cutrone and Borini to a rando youth who canít even control the ball like Salamander is just pathetic.

Against 10 men and with massive spaces opening up for counters, having a painfully mediocre and wasteful Ibra on field is sadly still our best option.


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Last edited by necromancer; 23-02-2020 at 07:46.
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Old 23-02-2020, 07:46   #742
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how many attacks did kessie screw for us? he is just so useless offensively, its not even funny. he has no vision, no technique. he should not try to make any key passes in the offensive 3rd, just make an easy pass to other teammates, at least we keep posession this way.
he would not make atalantas starting 11 now i am sure. gasperini is laughing at us.

refreeing was a joke too, still we should have won..
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Old 23-02-2020, 08:48   #743
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Everything that needs to be said has been said already.

- Ref should have fucking used VAR
- We shouldn't have been in that situation either way if we used our 10 man advantage properly and didn't collapse mentally.


BUT the fact that VAR usage is an arbitrary decision by ref is fucking stupid.
Teams should be able to request VAR 1-2 times per match.
It's not the first time when I see ref not use VAR when he is clearly wrong.

p.s. Don't see why people are pist at Crutone. We should be pist at ourselves for letting him go because Piatek had a great half a season.


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Old 23-02-2020, 11:03   #744
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well next game where we cant control the game in 2nd half
benna and kessie alone with less active attackers (samu, rebic, hakan) cant keep alone against attacks coming one after another
pioli should bring someone to the midfield and swap from 424 (because this is real formation we play after 60th minute)


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atalanta vs milan (players)

g: suso, bona, donna, roma, calabria
f&m: conti, kessie, hakan, musa, rr
l: samuel, piatek
m&b: leao, benna
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Old 23-02-2020, 12:06   #745
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Geeughhhhh


Pissed at the ref decisions.

Even more pissed at the mentality of this team and the lack of good bench options to sustain these tactics.
I was actually a bit disappointed to see Dalbert sent off.
The team was in no state to dominate a team, even with a numerical advantage. If anything, the pressure that comes with having the advantage messed with their fragile little minds. They seemed unsure of whether to protect the result or try to extend the lead. They half-assed everything and gave the ref the chance to screw us over once again.

We need impact subs, badly. We have no one to re-energize the team in the last half-hour.
It used to be Rebic, but he's a starter now.
Last season we had Cutrone and Borini coming on and playing as if a lifetime in gulags awaited in case the team didn't win. Yesterday Cutrone was doing that for Fiorentina, and his work resulted in a PK and equalizer for his team, although the ref deserves to be spat in his face for that call. Cutrone had how many goals as sub for us? Borini used to come on and score or assist and make us finish games stronger than we started them.
This team however dies when fatigue kicks in for the starters.
Leao is not a 4231 LW option, and Ibra is not going to get benched.
Paqueta and Bona play at Brazilian league tempo.
Saelemakers is yet to show signs of having an end product.

It's bad enough to not have a solution on the bench for fatigue.
The problem is also worsened by some of the starters. And it's not the usual suspects or scapegoats like Hakan or Kessie.
Ibra's low workrate forces the rest to compensate for him, tiring them out even quicker.
The team is being dictated by a person(Bennacer) who plays like a cherry-on-top player. Very promising player, who's already great at certain stuff, but his characteristics are a terrible fit for a 4-2-3-1 DM. Their main duty is to offset having 4 attackers for an entire game. Bennacer plays as if he has a lot of freedom, and he tires himself out like an attacker. Add to that his main weaknesses. He's a liability.
There's lots of talks here about replacing Kessie, but if the club is serious about this 4-2-3-1 or double pivot systems, then Kessie is not the one that doesn't fit, although he could also be upgraded.
If we got someone like Fabinho, then I'd rather team him up with Kessie.

Interesting that you single out Bennacer. Are you saying that he is like a luxury player that we canít afford, that somehow Hakanís attacking influence is curtailed because he has to cover for Bennacerís free license so much? Replacing B with a true DM would do what to our attack? Would it change the fact we have 1 out of 4 attackers in scoring form? The problems are manifold I really donít think itís dictated by Bennacer. We should be putting games like yesterdayís away and for me that is a fault of the attack.

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Old 23-02-2020, 12:18   #746
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We have an entire squad of teenagers and they tire like 40 year olds.

Why is that?


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Old 23-02-2020, 13:41   #747
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We have an entire squad of teenagers and they tire like 40 year olds.

Why is that?
Beta brains


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Old 23-02-2020, 13:59   #748
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Did I say Paqueta played well? Unlike Hakan, Paqueta saw opportunities for through ball and tried them. He is rusty, so they didn't go through. Both are not good, but Hakan is not 10 material
Good point there. Paqueta seemed to have vision but wasn't able to properly execute on it.

Hakan doesn't have the playmaker vision to open up defenses. Hakan can give good passes in the midfield and even some good long passes but in the final quarter of the pitch he isn't very dangerous, aside from some goals from long shots.

The team definitely needs an upgraded playmaker for next season if they want to play 4-2-3-1.
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Old 23-02-2020, 16:21   #749
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We don't have anyone capable of playing in the hole behind the striker, as I've been moaning for more than a year now. Hakan completely lacks the vision to play there, Paqueta is very mediocre in decision-making as well as a number of other things, and Bonaventura is far too lacking in fitness for such a role.


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Old 25-02-2020, 17:16   #750
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Originally Posted by ShevaNo7 View Post
Interesting that you single out Bennacer. Are you saying that he is like a luxury player that we can’t afford, that somehow Hakan’s attacking influence is curtailed because he has to cover for Bennacer’s free license so much? Replacing B with a true DM would do what to our attack? Would it change the fact we have 1 out of 4 attackers in scoring form? The problems are manifold I really don’t think it’s dictated by Bennacer. We should be putting games like yesterday’s away and for me that is a fault of the attack.
No, you're mixing things up.

Ibra is the one that tires out his teammates.
Bennacer tires out mainly himself. He gets overambitious and tends to take unnecessarily many risks.
He doesn't have anyone covering or compensating for him, and that's the problem.
I've seen him and Kessie get caught out of position simultaneously far too many times.

Both of them would benefit from playing next to a holding mid like Bakayoko.
However ideally you have two aerially and defensively strong midfielders to offset the 4 attackers and Theo. None of our midfielders fit that description.
We're very vulnerable to counterattacks, vulnerable to set-pieces, weak at aerial duels in the midfield and weak at blocking and preventing shots from dangerous positions.
I'm not sure adding Baka would fix all this. This team seems to only be able to play at one tempo, and they do it until they run out of fuel. I think two DMs would stabilize things. The attack would suffer initially, but there would be less pressure to get an early lead.

Hakan has no one to blame for his inconsistency but himself. He is who he is.
Rebic and Samu heavily benefit from having Ibra on the pitch, although it means they have to compensate for his lack of pressing.


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Old 25-02-2020, 19:35   #751
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Originally Posted by necromancer View Post
We don't have anyone capable of playing in the hole behind the striker, as I've been moaning for more than a year now. Hakan completely lacks the vision to play there, Paqueta is very mediocre in decision-making as well as a number of other things, and Bonaventura is far too lacking in fitness for such a role.
Agreed. we could try and spring for someone like Castrovilli in summer. Bruno Fernandes would have been the dream but too pricey and now is at Man U of course. That said, I think Hakan and Paqueta are better there than out wide. Not ideal but we're comparing turds here


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Old 25-02-2020, 21:09   #752
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I actually would very much like to see something like this next season if possible

Kessie Baka Bennacer
Deulofeu Ibra Rebic


Adding Baka into the midfield would allow us to play a lazier but more dangerous winger in Deu over Castillejo, who will get plenty of minutes regardless. The midfield can cover ground and is tenacious as well, the intensity would not be lacking. Bennacer would have a little bit more opportunity to roam as well.

Keep in mind this is far from a complete team, but I actually think it’s somewhat possible and could be dangerous. Depth is very important here though, as mentioned by others earlier. Deu will not be as useful in some games as a guy like Samu, same goes for rebic. I won’t give up on Leao and say “he isn’t good enough,” that kind of attitude is shitty and part of what got Milan into the mess we are in. He is more than good enough to be on the bench and earn minutes when he can get them. His attitude is lazy but that can be fixed, he has clear quality. Also a right back is so painfully needed, in fact another good attacking right back could help offset having a midfield that is yet again lacking in passing quality, although even big teams struggle to find players like that sometimes. Take a lesson from Liverpool, if you can’t have a midfield that can play through anyone, make sure they are physical, cover ground, win second balls, and make up for it with bombing fullbacks/wingers
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Old 25-02-2020, 21:58   #753
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Originally Posted by Balo45 View Post
I actually would very much like to see something like this next season if possible

Kessie Baka Bennacer
Deulofeu Ibra Rebic


Adding Baka into the midfield would allow us to play a lazier but more dangerous winger in Deu over Castillejo, who will get plenty of minutes regardless. The midfield can cover ground and is tenacious as well, the intensity would not be lacking. Bennacer would have a little bit more opportunity to roam as well.

Keep in mind this is far from a complete team, but I actually think itís somewhat possible and could be dangerous. Depth is very important here though, as mentioned by others earlier. Deu will not be as useful in some games as a guy like Samu, same goes for rebic. I wonít give up on Leao and say ďhe isnít good enough,Ē that kind of attitude is shitty and part of what got Milan into the mess we are in. He is more than good enough to be on the bench and earn minutes when he can get them. His attitude is lazy but that can be fixed, he has clear quality. Also a right back is so painfully needed, in fact another good attacking right back could help offset having a midfield that is yet again lacking in passing quality, although even big teams struggle to find players like that sometimes. Take a lesson from Liverpool, if you canít have a midfield that can play through anyone, make sure they are physical, cover ground, win second balls, and make up for it with bombing fullbacks/wingers
Liverpool's midfield are still way better passer + technically superior to the midfield you're suggesting. Liverpool's forwards are dynamic and agile and can create chances on their own. The lineup you're suggesting wouldn't be an upgrade to the current lineup.
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Old 26-02-2020, 09:03   #754
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Liverpool's midfield are still way better passer + technically superior to the midfield you're suggesting. Liverpool's forwards are dynamic and agile and can create chances on their own. The lineup you're suggesting wouldn't be an upgrade to the current lineup.
Agreed.

And what's with the Deulofeu fetish EVERY window? He's a failed talent plying his trade at Watford ffs.


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Old 26-02-2020, 17:36   #755
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Who said that team was as good as Liverpool at all? Liverpool is the best team in the world right now. What I wrote is that you can offset some midfield technicality through other measures. There are a good ten midfields in world football all better at passing then Liverpool. They make up for it with playmaking fullbacks, goalscoring wingers, and intensity.

There’s nothing in that to say milan has a midfield anywhere near the quality of Liverpool’s. Also, quality isn’t only about passing and technical skill, Liverpool has a midfield second to none right now in terms of organized pressing, winning the ball, speed of play, etc.

Also there’s no way that adding Bakayoko to our current midfield isn’t an improvement. Bennacer and Kessie would look far better with added presence, and our back line as well. As far as Deu, there are many players I’d prefer. He’s just someone as see as realistic for the summer, a player who knows the club somewhat. I think is a dangerous player, he was very good for watford last season. Definitely flawed but dangerous in the right role. Which is not our 442, hence adding someone like Bakayoko
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Old 27-02-2020, 00:11   #756
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Originally Posted by Balo45 View Post
I actually would very much like to see something like this next season if possible

Kessie Baka Bennacer
Deulofeu Ibra Rebic


Adding Baka into the midfield would allow us to play a lazier but more dangerous winger in Deu over Castillejo, who will get plenty of minutes regardless. The midfield can cover ground and is tenacious as well, the intensity would not be lacking. Bennacer would have a little bit more opportunity to roam as well.
Going back to 4-3-3, with Baka, would solve some of our current issues, but also bring back some of the old ones.

That front 3 would be far better than last season's.
Rebic and Deu are both able to outpace and outtrick defenders, and they've both proved they can score double digits in open play.

Bennacer needs a few tweaks, but I think he can develop into one helluva mezz'ala.

However I don't want to go back to relying on goals and final passes from Kessie.
He's not getting any better at timing his shots, aiming his shots or reducing his toxic selfishness in the final third.
Krunic has been just as wasteful this season, but I think I'd prefer him as the advanced mid, out of the current options.

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I won’t give up on Leao and say “he isn’t good enough,” that kind of attitude is shitty and part of what got Milan into the mess we are in. He is more than good enough to be on the bench and earn minutes when he can get them. His attitude is lazy but that can be fixed, he has clear quality.
The switch to 4-2-3-1 hasn't done Leao any favors.
He was a decent option for the support striker spot in 4-4-2. I think you could also find ways to accommodate him as wing-forward in 4-3-3.
But he can't be trusted in the 4-2-3-1 wing roles, and clearly also can't be depended on as lone striker. He's not even backup material in this system.

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And what's with the Deulofeu fetish EVERY window? He's a failed talent plying his trade at Watford ffs.
He pissed the fuck out of the me in his final months at Milan so much that I wasn't disappointed that he wasn't signed. But I also had ridiculous expectations about arrivals at the time(it was the summer of Chinese trillions after all). I've come to regret it, after 2.5 years of torture from Hakan and Suso. Thinking about it now, I don't think we've had a more independently dangerous winger than him since 2011. El Sha was a finisher and workhorse, but not much of a creator or dribbler. Menez was very dangerous on his own, but he wasn't interested in being a winger.

If the team switches back to 4-3-3, which seems inevitable in this club, then I'd love to have him and Samu as the RW options. One(Samu) is the type that drifts centrally and prefers to send in crosses with his left, which is extremely effective when you have Ibra and Rebic in the box. The other one has the pace and trickery to break a deadlock and murder teams on the counter.

I think he is being wasted at Watford. He scored 10 league goals and made 5 assists last season, without any PKs. Watford are hopeless this season, and they often deploy him as 4231 winger, which is a terrible mistake. He has done well in EPL, considering the garbage teams he has played for, but I think his style is even more effective in Serie A.


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Last edited by Goodfella; 27-02-2020 at 00:17.
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Old 27-02-2020, 15:06   #757
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Ppl have misgivings that Mbaka was Barca's Yaya Toure for us... he WASNT!


A gentle breeze used to knock him over.


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Old 27-02-2020, 15:53   #758
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Originally Posted by Balo45 View Post
Who said that team was as good as Liverpool at all? Liverpool is the best team in the world right now. What I wrote is that you can offset some midfield technicality through other measures. There are a good ten midfields in world football all better at passing then Liverpool. They make up for it with playmaking fullbacks, goalscoring wingers, and intensity.

Thereís nothing in that to say milan has a midfield anywhere near the quality of Liverpoolís. Also, quality isnít only about passing and technical skill, Liverpool has a midfield second to none right now in terms of organized pressing, winning the ball, speed of play, etc.

Also thereís no way that adding Bakayoko to our current midfield isnít an improvement. Bennacer and Kessie would look far better with added presence, and our back line as well. As far as Deu, there are many players Iíd prefer. Heís just someone as see as realistic for the summer, a player who knows the club somewhat. I think is a dangerous player, he was very good for watford last season. Definitely flawed but dangerous in the right role. Which is not our 442, hence adding someone like Bakayoko
I agree that a midfield of technically gifted players isn't necessarily key, however relying on Deulofeu to make up for the lack of creativity/vision between Bakayoko and Kessiť is a recipe for disaster. Deulofeu is a player who has failed at every club he's ever been at except for relegation side Watford and a decent half year at Montella's legendary Milan.
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Old 28-02-2020, 07:03   #759
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I agree that a midfield of technically gifted players isn't necessarily key, however relying on Deulofeu to make up for the lack of creativity/vision between Bakayoko and Kessiť is a recipe for disaster. Deulofeu is a player who has failed at every club he's ever been at except for relegation side Watford and a decent half year at Montella's legendary Milan.
He didn't fail at Everton.
He had a good debut season, under Roberto Martinez. A not so good second season(or 5 months), but Everton fans blame that on Ronald Koeman.
This was the same season where he left for Montella's Milan in the January mercato, and did well.

Recipe for disaster?
We had 2 non-scoring, non-dribbling wingers last season in front of Baka & Kessie and it wasn't disastrous.


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Old 28-02-2020, 07:04   #760
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Ppl have misgivings that Mbaka was Barca's Yaya Toure for us... he WASNT!

He wasn't, because Baka is a proper DM unlike Yaya.


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