Official Combat Sports (MMA, Boxing, Kickboxing) Thread

MilanMB · Jul 12, 2016

Curupira said:
Silva could not claim GOAT status even without the juicing thing.

DC cannot be GOAT purely based on how outclassed he looked against Jones.

Unsure about both these statements.

I kind of agree with you about the level of challenge Silva has had, but he's made them look bad as well. It's a tough question. But before the juicing thing (which puts a question mark on his other fights) be could have been considered a GOAT. He toyed with the guys you mentioned, and put on great performances against a fighter with a style that was supposed to be his kryptonite (Sonnen).

And yes, DC got outclassed vs Jones... but then again, what did that fight really mean given recent events?

Curupira · Jul 12, 2016

milan_swagger said:
Yea maybe i am being harsh on rampage but no offense rampge himself admitted that he couldnt beat jones even if he was in his prime. He was in his prime when they fought according to himself. Wanderlei's record is vastly overrated hence i dont rate him at all. He hs never fought someone of rumble/gustaffson's calibre let alone jones and dc.
Jones beat a drained dc tbh. Dc i feel is much better in heavyweight. Had he fought with the extra weight he carries around whilst fighting in the heavyweight category, i think he may have beaten jones.
In saying that, jones is a steroid abuser so who knows? Maybe he was juiced to the gills in the first fight too.

Correct me if i am wrong, but you werent allowed to use elbows in strikeforce ? That would inhibit jon's main strength. His ability to utilize his long elbows at the clinch makes him invincible.

But cru, none of the fighters fedor fought seem special though. Werdum definitely wasnt in his prime then. He says so himself. He is a much improved fighter now. Young werdum lost to overeem and he was not as technically adept with his standup as he is now barring the stipe fight lol.

Historical context my man.

Rampage, Wanderlei should be compared to guys like Chuck, Randy, Forrest, Tito, as those are the top LHW of UFC during that period.

And I've already said when Werdum beat Fedor, he used grappling...he pulled guard right away. He's already beaten better pure grapplers than Fedor up to that point so whether he is in his prime or not is a moot point.

Again, Fedor's opponents does not seem special by today's lense. Fedor should be compared to guys like Sylva, Randy, Barnett. They may not seem impressive by today's standard, but Fedor fought the best of that generation.

Curupira · Jul 12, 2016

MilanMB said:
Unsure about both these statements.

I kind of agree with you about the level of challenge Silva has had, but he's made them look bad as well. It's a tough question. But before the juicing thing (which puts a question mark on his other fights) be could have been considered a GOAT. He toyed with the guys you mentioned, and put on great performances against a fighter with a style that was supposed to be his kryptonite (Sonnen).

And yes, DC got outclassed vs Jones... but then again, what did that fight really mean given recent events?

Only fight I would say Anderson fought with a style that's his kryptonite would be Hendo. Sonnen utilize wrestling as well but he is so limited in rest of his game to really be considered as his kryptonite. Nobody considered Sonnen to be a tough stylistic match up for Anderson, that's what made the fact that he controlled him for 4 rounds impressive. Keep in mind, this is the same Sonnen that got triangle choked by Babalu and hail-mary armbarred by Paulao Filho. Maia ran a grappling clinic on Sonnen.

For someone who's supposed to be GOAT, Silva had really limited offense off his back, he wasn't as imposing in terms of striking (Maia, Leites). The guy he toyed with were all average strikers who were billed as great ones. Nobody categorized Bonnar, Griffin, Irvin, Cote as great strikers. Why should we care that he beat these guys? When Silva moved up to LHW, guys like Rampage and Chuck were still around, and beating those guys would make a much better case for him than the guys that he fought.

Just my opinion, I still think he is a great fighter, one of the best of that generation. And again, I am only comparing his reign to Fedor's, as they were both considered GOAT from that era.

MilanMB · Jul 12, 2016

Curupira said:
Nobody considered Sonnen to be a tough stylistic match up for Anderson

This is completely false. It was the narrative actually.

Just my opinion, I still think he is a great fighter, one of the best of that generation. And again, I am only comparing his reign to Fedor's, as they were both considered GOAT from that era.

GOAT perpective:

Fedor >>> Andersson (or anyone else IMO)

Curupira · Jul 12, 2016

MilanMB said:
This is completely false. It was the narrative actually.

GOAT perpective:

Fedor >>> Andersson (or anyone else IMO)

Glad we agree on Fedor.

But that's the narrative of trying to sell the fight, true. Sonnen has good wrestling and tough mentality, but in terms of overall skills he falls way short to be considered a legit contender for ANY of the title fights he was in. Right before that fight, Sonnen beat Dan Miller, Marquartd and Okami. And before that he was schooled by Maia.

Anyways, it does not matter. In grand scheme of things Silva still accomplished more than his other peers, just the names hes bested are not quite as impressive.

Sage · Jul 12, 2016

I hope overeem wins the HW belt

Overeem vs Cain :b:

this would be the most possible match up that im looking forward too.

that and cyborg vs rousey (99% won't happen) :devilehh:

Curupira · Jul 12, 2016

Sage said:
I hope overeem wins the HW belt

Overeem vs Cain this would be the most possible match up that im looking forward too.

that and cyborg vs rousey (99% won't happen) :devilehh:

I like Overeem a lot (from PRIDE and K1 days) and I don't really find Miocic all that exciting.

I doubt Rousey will ever fight Cyborg, Cyborg looked even sharper before in last fight and has not tested positive so far...

Sage · Jul 12, 2016

UFC 205 is supposedly going to be a big card (their debut in new york at MSG)

I don't think rousey will be back by then, mcgregor could make it if he makes it injury free past 202.

what possible match ups do you think we'll be getting? I'm thinking weidman rockhold, edgar hollaway and DC vs the winner of glover/rumble.

add mcgregor aldo to that and I'm excited.

UFC 205:
mcgregor aldo
DC rumble/glover
weidman rockhold
edgar hollaway

let's see if I'll be anywhere close to the actual card

Curupira said:
I doubt Rousey will ever fight Cyborg, Cyborg looked even sharper before in last fight and has not tested positive so far...

I think rousey is done with fighting.

Sage · Jul 12, 2016

Curupira said:
At this point in his career, I think Bisping is already a "big winner" in a sense that he's beaten Anderson Silva when many thought he didn't have a chance, and then upset Rockhold for the title. If he can avenge his loss against Hendo, it would be a perfect way to wrap up his career. If not, I wouldn't really hold it against him.

tbh I would, it's one thing to get KO'd by hendo 7 years ago, but if he loses on his first defense to a 46 year old hendo who passed by 12 fighters in the rankings to get a shot, it would look really bad IMO.

and apparently if hendo wins the belt, he plans to retire as champion :lol:

I think UFC should stop giving immediate rematch UNLESS its a razor thin SPLIT decision OR there was a moment of controversy like phantom-tapping or early stoppage that left the conclusion of the fight in question. Otherwise, stop with all these immediate rematches.

agreed with this, tbh they don't do immediate rematches much these days anyways, otherwise holm would have got the title shot ahead of nunes.

Curupira · Jul 12, 2016

Sage said:
I think rousey is done with fighting.

I get the same feeling. She took the loss against Holly really hard.

It's all mental for her I feel, I've trained with a US Judo National before and he used to tell us stories about Ronda (same ones she later confirmed on Joe Rogan Experience), about how she would cry not bc she couldn't win, but bc she couldn't get the exact set ups and moves that she wants. She pushes herself really hard and is mentally really tough but very fragile at the same time.

Even if she comes back, I would have her as the favorite instantly over everyone not named Cyborg. She just needs to face the fact that she isn't female Mike Tyson, nor does her skill set allow her to be. If she keeps with her old approach to fighting, I can see her beating Holly since Ronda's stand up > Holly's ground game. And honestly, she should get back with the Gene Labell crew, Edmund is kind of a clown and a YES man. If she is going to achieve next level of greatness it wouldn't be under Edmund.

But if she doesn't come back, I would understand as well and still think she had a great legacy.

Milaniscool · Jul 12, 2016

MilanMB said:
How can it not change your mind when someone's been using PEDs?

--

.

I'm following this thing and seeing if the intent to cheat was there or was this a one time accidental thing. If Jones went out of his way to try to get an illegal advantage clearly, then I can't root for the guy. With fighters getting caught it's easy for someone to say "this guy cheated, he's a juicer". Lots of the time though it happens by accident. To lots of people it doesn't matter if it was intentional and that's fine.

Curupira · Jul 12, 2016

Milaniscool said:
I'm following this thing and seeing if the intent to cheat was there or was this a one time accidental thing. If Jones went out of his way to try to get an illegal advantage clearly, then I can't root for the guy. With fighters getting caught it's easy for someone to say "this guy cheated, he's a juicer". Lots of the time though it happens by accident. To lots of people it doesn't matter if it was intentional and that's fine.

How do you do it by "accident"?

Fighters are independent contractor and what supplement they take they are responsible for. Especially with USADA now offering to tests athletes' supplements, the "tainted supplement" excuse is no longer valid.

MilanMB · Jul 12, 2016

Curupira,

I usually don't watch the Joe Rogan Experience, but Sonnen was on yesterday so I had to watch it.

They talked about Jones, as posted in the article above. But he and Rogan also talked about one time USADA went to the Jackson-Wink gym to test Jones. Apparently, they hid Jones under the octagon (or was it ring) for eight hours (USADA personell refused to leave).

You heard anything about this? It's hilarious :lol:

Sage · Jul 12, 2016

that was a good episode

MilanMB · Jul 12, 2016

indeed

but his show is about everything, and not only MMA. I like the mma hour with Helwani more.

Sage · Jul 12, 2016

yeh ive been listening to it for a couple of years

i watch the mma hour when he gets guests i find interesting/entertaining

MilanMB · Jul 12, 2016

yeah same here, i don't always watch it.

the fighter and the kid seems interesting, i've only seen clips from it though.

Curupira · Jul 12, 2016

MilanMB said:
Curupira,

You heard anything about this? It's hilarious

I have not, I will listen to the episode on my way home. But Sonnen talks a lot though, and he's right about some stuff and BS's about other stuff. Sometimes I think he is a troll but sometimes he brings up valid points, I will have to hear his story.

MilanMB said:
indeed

but his show is about everything, and not only MMA. I like the mma hour with Helwani more.

Yea, some of the other episodes are good bc the guests usually bring in some interesting perspectives. I mostly listen to Jiu Jitsu and MMA episodes.

Sometimes Joe gets a little annoying though, he gets super passive aggressive and a lot of times pushes his pseudo-science ONNIT crap. Most of the times though, I enjoy the show and just ignore his BS.

Sage said:
yeh ive been listening to it for a couple of years

i watch the mma hour when he gets guests i find interesting/entertaining

MMA hour is interesting but sometimes it gets a bit long.

MilanMB said:
yeah same here, i don't always watch it.

the fighter and the kid seems interesting, i've only seen clips from it though.

Fighter and the Kid is funny. Brian Callen can be a little annoying with his "know-it-all" and one-upsmanship though.

Curupira · Jul 12, 2016

Rousey remains the top contender for the women's bantamweight title, according to UFC president Dana White, who says Rousey can fight new champion Amanda Nunes next if that's what she wants.

Curupira · Jul 14, 2016

MilanMB said:
Curupira,

I usually don't watch the Joe Rogan Experience, but Sonnen was on yesterday so I had to watch it.

They talked about Jones, as posted in the article above. But he and Rogan also talked about one time USADA went to the Jackson-Wink gym to test Jones. Apparently, they hid Jones under the octagon (or was it ring) for eight hours (USADA personell refused to leave).

You heard anything about this? It's hilarious

Listening to it now, the part about Wanderlei :proud:

I am glad to say I was wrong about Wanderlei. He is probably too emotional to explain it properly. After hearing Chael tell the story, I probably would have done what he did too.

MilanMB · Jul 15, 2016

Curupira said:
Listening to it now, the part about Wanderlei

I am glad to say I was wrong about Wanderlei. He is probably too emotional to explain it properly. After hearing Chael tell the story, I probably would have done what he did too.

Yeah that was some weird shit, I'd never let someone who doesn't ID themselves poke me with a needle. Fuck that,

--

Any news on Jones? Last thing I heard was he'd taken some crazy drink when partying :lol:

Curupira · Jul 15, 2016

MilanMB said:
Yeah that was some weird shit, I'd never let someone who doesn't ID themselves poke me with a needle. Fuck that,

--

Any news on Jones? Last thing I heard was he'd taken some crazy drink when partying

He's been keeping quiet. I guess like Chael said, theres another shoe waiting to be dropped, and that will tell the story.

MilanMB · Jul 15, 2016

btw,

just saw fedor vs maldonado

damn

fedor should have stayed retired.

Curupira · Jul 15, 2016

MilanMB said:
btw,

just saw fedor vs maldonado

damn

fedor should have stayed retired.

Yea man. He did not look good although the fight was exciting and Maldonado is a tough son of a gun.

Did you see that WMMA association ruled that fight a draw but head of MMA union in Russia just told him to fck off :lol:

MilanMB · Jul 15, 2016

Haha yes, just read that before I saw the fight.

When legends look like this, it's not exciting.

MilanMB · Jul 15, 2016

http://www.mmamania.com/2016/7/15/1...regor-fight-gets-creamed-ufc-social-media-mma

yes please

Curupira · Jul 15, 2016

MilanMB said:
http://www.mmamania.com/2016/7/15/1...regor-fight-gets-creamed-ufc-social-media-mma

yes please

Dillashaw so salty.

TBH, never been a fan of Dillashaws, or any of the TAM guys (I know he's with Bang Ludwig now, but still).

Holloway is a different story, I really think that guy deserves a shot soon.

Sage · Jul 15, 2016

cruz would beat mcgregor

MilanMB · Jul 15, 2016

Sage said:
cruz would beat mcgregor

in featherweight? tough one

but, basically everyone with good takedowns are favs vs conor until he proves otherwise (chad mendes took him down repeatedly)

dammit, future looks hard for conor

diaz at welterweight, aldo coming back as a monster, rda and alvarez grinders.

most of his match ups are bad for him tbh

i hope he wins them all

Sage · Jul 15, 2016

I wasn't thinking solely about take downs, cruz would also out point/smart him.

I think he'll beat aldo and rda, alvarez would beat him.

Official Combat Sports (MMA, Boxing, Kickboxing) Thread

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