Anderson Lima
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Don't cry... 
Sampdoria - Milan week 3 - 18/9
- Thread starter gaizka22
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Wild
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Anything 4 the team.menon_inc said:LOLLLLLLL! That was a lot of heat you took for no reason while giving us some info on whats going on in the match.
Kyara
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You're talking as though any transfer the team makes is totally the coach's decision. Trust me, it's a lot more complicated than that. And no coach would resign for the reason you mentioned either because if that's what coaches did, they will end up without jobs. In Milan Carletto can't have a lineup of his own without the president's interference and that's the president's fault. I don't think sacking the coach is the solution in this case because I seriously doubt any other coach would have more authority than Carlo anyways.Wild said:
I've always hated the fact that Max was benched, but we can all see that things have changed this season.Wild said:
We're going back to the same points:Wild said:
- Carlo does not make transfer decisions
- Carlo does not have good alternatives in those positions
See? That's stupidity on the management's side.Wild said:
If it was that easy then any player can play in any position and someone else would cover for him. You can't force players into positions and I feel sorry that we have to do that because our management is refusing to buy new ones.Wild said:
Look, if you wanna use a 3-5-2 formation and two DMs, that means fielding both Max and Rino 'cause they are our only DMs. And don't tell me Pirlo's a DM 'cause he's not, he's a deep playmaking midfielder who provides passes for the whole team in front. He does NOT have defensive abilities like Max or Rino and he loses the balls many times. Now if we field both Max and Rino and our wingers (Cafu and Sergio supposedly) don't perform well then we're dead. Imagine this scenario: flanks not working, Kaka marked lost alone in front, strikers not getting any assists.Wild said:
This is only speculation from our side though, I'm only willing to try this formation when Marek is back, but even then I would worry about the defense.
Cafu's always been a right back even when he was in Roma and his first two seasons with us. I don't see why you suddenly wanna change his position. As I said before, Cafu's a grear RB but it's not the same when he's 34 (or older?).Wild said:
I don't think we can afford trying things now. We need an excellent CD who would help accomplish the team's goals and for now I only have one name: Chivu.Wild said:
It's unfair to say that Carletto hasn't improved anything in our squad yet. His first season with Milan was disastrous and If nothing had improved since the day he came, we wouldn't have won anything. Once again, I'm not completely on his side because I agree that he made/still making some mistakes regarding choices and so on. But what I'm saying is that the players an management must also take a big share of the blame.Wild said:
Lo Tsar
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What the hell is this? Why would you post a video of Gattuso here, that sort of thing belongs in his threadgila#11 said:im sorry about going off topic but http://www.funpic.hu/swf/numanuma.html
fat man dancing
couldnt resist
you need sound as well
Kyara
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Seamus
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Not that I'm excusing the loss either, but Samp did play pretty well against Milan. We still should have won, but unfortunatly we didn't.
Wild
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I wont answer what u wrote coz I think we both coverd what we wanna say.Kyara said:
But I just 2 highlight points I wanted 2 say in a few words.
-I don’t think Carlitto only should b blamed.
I don’t think we should sack coz this might even make things worse 4 Milan.
Next year am all 4 getting us a new coach.
-Cafu is a great player.
But he is a weak spot in our defense & its our fault coz we consider him as a RB.
He is old & cant participate in both defense & offense.
We should give him freedom & not rely on him as a defender.
Where the hell is Marzorati ?
The guy is a pure RB.
-Kaka isn’t reliable as a playmaker.
He is a number 10 & need 2 work more on his playmaking ability.
We need 2 work more on our flanks so we can give Kaka some space 2 work his speed.
-Seedorf + Kaladze = crap.
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just thot i'd join in:
Now to the 3-5-2, I’ll come at it first from a general angle in comparison to 4-4-2, then with respect to milan’s 4-4-2 and our “current” players.
3-5-2 relies a lot on ur “wingers” always providing good service and ur 2 DMs covering for any fast breaks against the team. It also relies on ur wingers having both good offense & defensive skills, and the stamina. 4-4-2 on the other is balanced and cam be modified. Frist the common diamond formation, u can have 2 out-&-out wingers on both wings as well as have 2 “wing-back” that overlap, so essentially u have 4 players on the wings crossing balls in, albeit not all at the same time, but at least the chance of all on them being off form is very minimal. As for being caught on the counter u have a DM, and both wingbacks don’t overlap simultaneously, and the wingers “cover” for the overlapping wingback. As for the box or 2 DM formation, if forms a shield against the defense and is very useful when u have very attack minded AMs & u want to give them more space or to allow wing backs overlap more. But there isn’t as much strain on the 2 DMs as ther would be in a 3-5-2 system. There’s no reason we can’t try this ambro-pirlo as DMs and rui-kaka’ as AMs. Or even playing the traditional diamond with pirlo behind the 2 strikers and ambro/rino as DM and kaka’ wide on 1 side and janku/seginho/seedorf/rui on the other. By default kaka-cafu on the right would be weaker than say janku-maldini on the left with respect to defensive abilities. But then kaka’ could play left with one of the other 4 on the right? I suppose. My point 4-4-2 is more than what carlo plays 4-3-1-2.
If let’s say 4-3-3? I say we are already doin that besides kaka’ not cutting to the wings to give crosses like he used to, and us playing pirlo deep instead of ambro there and he and maybe seedorf/rui further upfront. What rui lacks in speed he has in vision and passing ability especially crossing the ball. The guy we really never should’ve sold was dhorasoo he was probably our best all round mid that never got to play and would’ve suited this formation perfectly. For all his quality he never got to play.
I think we have been spoilt by players like maldini & cafu playing at such levels at this age when most people thought they had past their best like 3-4 yrs ago. Cafu in particular, when he was sold by roma, I’m quite sure they didn’t think he had anything left to offer, but it as it may when he came to Milan he had very good 2-3 seasons, maldini too. After the 2002 world cup, many thought the same too but he probably had some of his best yrs as a player in the last 3 seasons. What I’m I trying to say, the fact that they have past expectations with respect to their playing time at the top level doesn’t mean the law of diminishing returns won’t show sometime. And the signs have been there, like passion had been saying even if they may have been somewhat pessimistic.
Putting cafu forward in a 3-5-2 system as it may will not bring out anymore from him, when last have u seen a “good” cafu cross from the right wing. The reason why he’s playing as such now is that he is getting tired. As for our central defense, I saw that stam was always losing concentration a lot of times same goes for nesta too. U might say that in the group stages of the CL we were tight at the back, but that was majorly cos dida was pulling some astonishing saves. Even so, let’s say our defense “peaked” then, as I believe it still will this season, at the long run, the tired legs & lack of concentration will still set in. Many folks in the press have been talking bout the age of our defense, it’s funny how they also manage to praise us as having the best defense in Europe. I think it’s an oxymoron. Nesta as a great defender he is, and as an admirer of him, especially how he makes defending look beautiful. But a friend of mine rightly noted that he has some lapses in concentration that baresi and maldini never used to have in their prime.
Let’s take a look at our team, if we are to play 3-5-2, I assume it’ll be nesta-stam-maldini, right as they r our best CDs . Then cafu-serginho on the wings. And we need 2 DMs, again our best are rino-ambro, the a player in the hole behind the front 2, naturally kaka’ & our 2 strikers. I have already talked about cafu, serginho in his case is somewhat ore complicated, he’s very very inconsistent especially when he starts, super sub oh yes! But even then sometimes he’s just off. (Janku would be the best for that position but we might not see him till late this year). And now to the main point: “pirlo” would not be able to play in this formation or rather pirlo & kaka’ would not be able to play together. Before u say u’d play kaka’ on the wings remember ur major or the major advantage is the flexibility of changing 3-5-2 to 5-3-2. kaka’ can’t defend even if his life depended on it. So why sacrifice either pirlo or kaka’. I know u’d say gain why not pair kaka’ & shevchenko? I say why not have shevy and gila with kaka’ on the field at the same time?
Bottom line we need to play to the strengths of our players and our defense needs to be overhauled, jan window we need like 3 defenders: or at least 1 CD and 1 RB. Just as a side, bayelsa @ worldcup 2002 was crazy bout his 3-3-1-3 or was it 3-3-3-1 formation that he left crespo and lopez on the bench for batistuta, very stupid when u place formation ahead of what u have as player resources. We don’t need another formation; we need fresh players & tactics.
It’s amazing how we can’t score and can’t defend, which is the difference in winning and losing a game. Someone pointed out that many serie a teams defend better than us, and don’t have players (defenders) as good as Milan. Which brings the question, is the coach that bad or maybe our players are not that good? We need to look past our names and start making decisions based solely on performances. I don’t mean to spell doom, but this aging defense thing has come earlier than expected and can only get worse even though it’ll “peak” like I sad temporarily. Now we have periods of domination without any goals? In the ill-fated season we fell against deportivo, we were dominating matches and scoring too. Now we still see the build up, sometimes, but finishing? And yes shevy has been a major culprit too, and now we have gila? As for carlo, I believe he should carry the bulk, esp for the matches that decided the trophy-less last season. And another thing is we don’t convert that many set-pieces, but sure know how to defend them, right? LOL.
As for brazil playing 5-3-2 & 5-4-1 in 1994 and 2002, I disagree it was 4-4-2, modified to have 2 DMs & 2 AMs. The 4 mids were in a box formation and not diamond, even though edmilson was kinda in the defense when they were defending. In 1994, parreira played the same thing he is now, only that he didn’t have attacking players like kaka’ & ronaldinho in his midfield alongside his 2 strikers. And he presently has emerson & ze roberto as his DMs. He had bebeto-romario up front, zinho-dunga-mauro silva- mazinho and a back four of leonardo(branco)-marcio santos- aldiar- cafu. In 2002 it was like below, which was sometimes more of a 4-5-1/4-3-2-1 formation. Although it was more to tactical discipline, esp on the part of the DMs as well as mass attack, mass defense.
------------------------------Ronaldo
-------------------Rivaldo
---------Juninho--------------------------Ronaldinho
------------Gilberto Silva-------------Edmilson
--R. Carlos------R. Junior-------------Lucio------------Cafu
As for the last match, why did we buy vogel & don’t have confidence to play him? Esp
when carlo had said he was giving pirlo a much needed rest. He was shaky when he came on against fener, but this was an opportunity for him to remove those jitterbugs, and at least he didn’t play like a “chicken”. Like I said in an earlier post carlo has been bold this season but not much wiser. Seedorf is a great player to watch when he comes out to play, it’s a shame it’s not too often, his abilities to read attacks and break down passes as well as create and score make him a very complete mid, but hey isn’t he like 29 now? And one other thing, yeah both goals came from the flanks, which makes one wonder whether it is just set-pieces we are vulnerable from or just crosses into the box (at least till we concede thru the middle, then it’ll be just a total case of bad defense… LOL). So kala & cafu messed up but I ask what happened to the strong tower of stam and maldini ejecting such balls before they drop in our box?
I think I’ve purged myself enuf for one post. As for the lazio match? I’ll watch & see…
ps: wrote this a couple of days ago, so excuse some statemants that seem out of sync
Now to the 3-5-2, I’ll come at it first from a general angle in comparison to 4-4-2, then with respect to milan’s 4-4-2 and our “current” players.
3-5-2 relies a lot on ur “wingers” always providing good service and ur 2 DMs covering for any fast breaks against the team. It also relies on ur wingers having both good offense & defensive skills, and the stamina. 4-4-2 on the other is balanced and cam be modified. Frist the common diamond formation, u can have 2 out-&-out wingers on both wings as well as have 2 “wing-back” that overlap, so essentially u have 4 players on the wings crossing balls in, albeit not all at the same time, but at least the chance of all on them being off form is very minimal. As for being caught on the counter u have a DM, and both wingbacks don’t overlap simultaneously, and the wingers “cover” for the overlapping wingback. As for the box or 2 DM formation, if forms a shield against the defense and is very useful when u have very attack minded AMs & u want to give them more space or to allow wing backs overlap more. But there isn’t as much strain on the 2 DMs as ther would be in a 3-5-2 system. There’s no reason we can’t try this ambro-pirlo as DMs and rui-kaka’ as AMs. Or even playing the traditional diamond with pirlo behind the 2 strikers and ambro/rino as DM and kaka’ wide on 1 side and janku/seginho/seedorf/rui on the other. By default kaka-cafu on the right would be weaker than say janku-maldini on the left with respect to defensive abilities. But then kaka’ could play left with one of the other 4 on the right? I suppose. My point 4-4-2 is more than what carlo plays 4-3-1-2.
If let’s say 4-3-3? I say we are already doin that besides kaka’ not cutting to the wings to give crosses like he used to, and us playing pirlo deep instead of ambro there and he and maybe seedorf/rui further upfront. What rui lacks in speed he has in vision and passing ability especially crossing the ball. The guy we really never should’ve sold was dhorasoo he was probably our best all round mid that never got to play and would’ve suited this formation perfectly. For all his quality he never got to play.
I think we have been spoilt by players like maldini & cafu playing at such levels at this age when most people thought they had past their best like 3-4 yrs ago. Cafu in particular, when he was sold by roma, I’m quite sure they didn’t think he had anything left to offer, but it as it may when he came to Milan he had very good 2-3 seasons, maldini too. After the 2002 world cup, many thought the same too but he probably had some of his best yrs as a player in the last 3 seasons. What I’m I trying to say, the fact that they have past expectations with respect to their playing time at the top level doesn’t mean the law of diminishing returns won’t show sometime. And the signs have been there, like passion had been saying even if they may have been somewhat pessimistic.
Putting cafu forward in a 3-5-2 system as it may will not bring out anymore from him, when last have u seen a “good” cafu cross from the right wing. The reason why he’s playing as such now is that he is getting tired. As for our central defense, I saw that stam was always losing concentration a lot of times same goes for nesta too. U might say that in the group stages of the CL we were tight at the back, but that was majorly cos dida was pulling some astonishing saves. Even so, let’s say our defense “peaked” then, as I believe it still will this season, at the long run, the tired legs & lack of concentration will still set in. Many folks in the press have been talking bout the age of our defense, it’s funny how they also manage to praise us as having the best defense in Europe. I think it’s an oxymoron. Nesta as a great defender he is, and as an admirer of him, especially how he makes defending look beautiful. But a friend of mine rightly noted that he has some lapses in concentration that baresi and maldini never used to have in their prime.
Let’s take a look at our team, if we are to play 3-5-2, I assume it’ll be nesta-stam-maldini, right as they r our best CDs . Then cafu-serginho on the wings. And we need 2 DMs, again our best are rino-ambro, the a player in the hole behind the front 2, naturally kaka’ & our 2 strikers. I have already talked about cafu, serginho in his case is somewhat ore complicated, he’s very very inconsistent especially when he starts, super sub oh yes! But even then sometimes he’s just off. (Janku would be the best for that position but we might not see him till late this year). And now to the main point: “pirlo” would not be able to play in this formation or rather pirlo & kaka’ would not be able to play together. Before u say u’d play kaka’ on the wings remember ur major or the major advantage is the flexibility of changing 3-5-2 to 5-3-2. kaka’ can’t defend even if his life depended on it. So why sacrifice either pirlo or kaka’. I know u’d say gain why not pair kaka’ & shevchenko? I say why not have shevy and gila with kaka’ on the field at the same time?
Bottom line we need to play to the strengths of our players and our defense needs to be overhauled, jan window we need like 3 defenders: or at least 1 CD and 1 RB. Just as a side, bayelsa @ worldcup 2002 was crazy bout his 3-3-1-3 or was it 3-3-3-1 formation that he left crespo and lopez on the bench for batistuta, very stupid when u place formation ahead of what u have as player resources. We don’t need another formation; we need fresh players & tactics.
It’s amazing how we can’t score and can’t defend, which is the difference in winning and losing a game. Someone pointed out that many serie a teams defend better than us, and don’t have players (defenders) as good as Milan. Which brings the question, is the coach that bad or maybe our players are not that good? We need to look past our names and start making decisions based solely on performances. I don’t mean to spell doom, but this aging defense thing has come earlier than expected and can only get worse even though it’ll “peak” like I sad temporarily. Now we have periods of domination without any goals? In the ill-fated season we fell against deportivo, we were dominating matches and scoring too. Now we still see the build up, sometimes, but finishing? And yes shevy has been a major culprit too, and now we have gila? As for carlo, I believe he should carry the bulk, esp for the matches that decided the trophy-less last season. And another thing is we don’t convert that many set-pieces, but sure know how to defend them, right? LOL.
As for brazil playing 5-3-2 & 5-4-1 in 1994 and 2002, I disagree it was 4-4-2, modified to have 2 DMs & 2 AMs. The 4 mids were in a box formation and not diamond, even though edmilson was kinda in the defense when they were defending. In 1994, parreira played the same thing he is now, only that he didn’t have attacking players like kaka’ & ronaldinho in his midfield alongside his 2 strikers. And he presently has emerson & ze roberto as his DMs. He had bebeto-romario up front, zinho-dunga-mauro silva- mazinho and a back four of leonardo(branco)-marcio santos- aldiar- cafu. In 2002 it was like below, which was sometimes more of a 4-5-1/4-3-2-1 formation. Although it was more to tactical discipline, esp on the part of the DMs as well as mass attack, mass defense.
------------------------------Ronaldo
-------------------Rivaldo
---------Juninho--------------------------Ronaldinho
------------Gilberto Silva-------------Edmilson
--R. Carlos------R. Junior-------------Lucio------------Cafu
As for the last match, why did we buy vogel & don’t have confidence to play him? Esp
when carlo had said he was giving pirlo a much needed rest. He was shaky when he came on against fener, but this was an opportunity for him to remove those jitterbugs, and at least he didn’t play like a “chicken”. Like I said in an earlier post carlo has been bold this season but not much wiser. Seedorf is a great player to watch when he comes out to play, it’s a shame it’s not too often, his abilities to read attacks and break down passes as well as create and score make him a very complete mid, but hey isn’t he like 29 now? And one other thing, yeah both goals came from the flanks, which makes one wonder whether it is just set-pieces we are vulnerable from or just crosses into the box (at least till we concede thru the middle, then it’ll be just a total case of bad defense… LOL). So kala & cafu messed up but I ask what happened to the strong tower of stam and maldini ejecting such balls before they drop in our box?
I think I’ve purged myself enuf for one post. As for the lazio match? I’ll watch & see…
ps: wrote this a couple of days ago, so excuse some statemants that seem out of sync