Ballon d'Or (Golden Ball)

Who will be the winner of Golden Ball this Year ?

  • Kaka'

    Votes: 27 39.7%
  • Andrea Pirlo

    Votes: 3 4.4%
  • Leo Messi

    Votes: 12 17.6%
  • Zlatan Ibrahimovic

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Francesco Totti

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • Ronaldinho

    Votes: 3 4.4%
  • Luca Toni

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • Frank Ribery

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Riquelme

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Francesc Fabregas

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • Gigi Buffon

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Cristiano Ronaldo

    Votes: 9 13.2%
  • Didier Drogba

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Steven Gerard

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Genaro Gattuso

    Votes: 2 2.9%
  • Wayne Rooney

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Paul Scholes

    Votes: 2 2.9%
  • Ruud van Nistelrooy

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • David Villa

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • Paolo Maldini

    Votes: 2 2.9%
  • Deco

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Thierry Henry

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Diego

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Ricardo Quaresma

    Votes: 1 1.5%
  • Clarence Seedorf

    Votes: 2 2.9%
  • Miroslav Klose

    Votes: 1 1.5%

  • Total voters
    68

manutd fan

EPL Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
14,946
Reaction score
3
Location
uk
Fav. Players
Eric Cantona, Paul Scholes, Van Nistlerooy, Valencia
drucurl said:
point(s) well taken.... however I think he could have done better with the aforementioned had he been more patient.

Becks, Stam, RVN and Forlan all went on to achieve gret things elsewhere and Yorke has been inspirational for Trinidad and Tobago. I guess there's a fine line between patience and stupidity and both Carlo and Fergie have crossed it on many occasions.

I maintain that loyalty is not one of Fergie's strengths. Stam, Bosnic, Keane, Yorke, Becks, Smith, RVN and Forlan might all agree though it must be said that he laboured extensively with Forlan prior to selling him.....but the thing is....he sells him when he finally starts scoring. The only player I've seen him keep the faith with was Ole.

Cantona (whole country wanted him gone - bar Utd fans)
Rio Ferdinand (at a time when he was just good, not great and had his suspension)
Neville
Smith (let him back in the side but Smith wanted to go)
Keane he was aswell, its just enough was enough.

Becs and Fergie had a massive row over Victoria. Fergie thought she was leading him into being a celebraty instead of a footballer)

Your right about the Stam one though. Fergie has publically apoligised for this though and Stam is now a Manutd scout in Brazil.

btw, I'm suprised by how much you know about us in terms of players. I suppose having a Trinidad legend like Yorke in your history helps :)
 

drucurl

Banned
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
7,703
Reaction score
4
Location
Trinidad and Tobago
Fav. Players
Ronaldo, Maldini, Nesta, Kaká, Ba, Silva
manutd fan said:
Cantona (whole country wanted him gone - bar Utd fans)
Cantona= fantastic player people's opinion had nothing to do with it.
When CR7 tricked Rooney into getting sent off not only England but the ManU fans wanted him gone...Fergie didn't budge there either
manutd fan said:
Rio Ferdinand (at a time when he was just good, not great and had his suspension)
manutd fan said:
Be serious Fergie wouldn't have EVER let his MOST expensive defender EVER go....that would be an embarrassment to him....especially since everybody and their dog knew Ferdinand was innocent and was just the victim of PURE spite
manutd fan said:
What can I say you got me there :D
manutd fan said:
Smith (let him back in the side but Smith wanted to go
you call THAT loyalty ? How about Fergie using Smith for his little experiments, failing at them and then kicking Smith out?
manutd fan said:
Keane he was aswell, its just enough was enough.
lolzzz I'd like to hear Roy's views on the matter :rolleyes:

manutd fan said:
Becs and Fergie had a massive row over Victoria. Fergie thought she was leading him into being a celebraty instead of a footballer)
Yeah I'm glad that his spiting of Becks came back to bite him in the ass....you could have done MUCH better than bend over and let Real rape you the way they did.

manutd fan said:
btw, I'm suprised by how much you know about us in terms of players. I suppose having a Trinidad legend like Yorke in your history helps :)
Hey I was the only Manutd fan who celebrated when he bought Yorke (incidentally I became a ManUtd fan after Yorkie signed :D ).....the Rest of you thought that Fergie's senility caught up with him for not signing Batigol....but in reality it was a good move because Fergie had not yet learned to harness South American talents (*cough*cough*Kleberson & Forlan*cough*cough)
 

crazy4milan

Exotic Stevie G
Joined
Dec 16, 2003
Messages
16,345
Reaction score
2
Fav. Players
Maldini,Weah,Nesta,Dida
Deserved, at least that's how I felt, me not being his biggest fan, but credit were it's due. The other places can get some questioning, but the truth is, after the winner no one cares about those spots unless is a player you really like, so not worth commenting.
 

manutd fan

EPL Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
14,946
Reaction score
3
Location
uk
Fav. Players
Eric Cantona, Paul Scholes, Van Nistlerooy, Valencia
drucurl said:
Cantona= fantastic player people's opinion had nothing to do with it.
When CR7 tricked Rooney into getting sent off not only England but the ManU fans wanted him gone...Fergie didn't budge there either
Manutd fans didn't want him gone. Check his reception in the first game of the season. Although a lot are English, Manutd fans still hate England at the same time for the way the media and fans have treated our players,

manutd fan said:
Rio Ferdinand (at a time when he was just good, not great and had his suspension)
manutd fan said:
Be serious Fergie wouldn't have EVER let his MOST expensive defender EVER go....that would be an embarrassment to him....especially since everybody and their dog knew Ferdinand was innocent and was just the victim of PURE spite
What can I say you got me there :D

drucurl said:
you call THAT loyalty ? How about Fergie using Smith for his little experiments, failing at them and then kicking Smith out?
lolzzz I'd like to hear Roy's views on the matter :rolleyes:
But Fergie never intended to fail Smith at CM. He had the right characteristics to play there - plus we had Scholes and Keane out for the season.

After he came back from his injury he went back to striker though and did quite well nd Fergie was singing his praises saying he gave us a lift and pushed us over the line when we were dead in the water physically. Smith asked to leave, thats different from Fergie getting rid of him.

Keane was constantly making enemies in the dressing room. Mainly with the foreign players but Fergie always stuck by him and defended him. But eventually enough was enough. Most managers would have kicked Keane out years before he finally left.

drucurl said:
Yeah I'm glad that his spiting of Becks came back to bite him in the ass....you could have done MUCH better than bend over and let Real rape you the way they did.
Becks deserved what he got. He put fame before football and his form suffered greatly. Only when he was dropped did he get back to his old form.

Also if we had kept Becks we wouldn't have got Ronaldo (or gone for Ronaldinho (fuck peter kenyon for ruining that one the wanker :mad: and Robben - again due to the traitor Kenyon who was secretly working for Chelsea )

drucurl said:
Hey I was the only Manutd fan who celebrated when he bought Yorke (incidentally I became a ManUtd fan after Yorkie signed :D ).....the Rest of you thought that Fergie's senility caught up with him for not signing Batigol....but in reality it was a good move because Fergie had not yet learned to harness South American talents (*cough*cough*Kleberson & Forlan*cough*cough)

Yorke was great and one of the best buys we ever did. Infact the scout who saw him said Yorke was his best ever find. I miss that smile :proud:

Kleberson...lets not go there lol.

edit: woah we've strolled way off topic here lol. sorry.
 

drucurl

Banned
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
7,703
Reaction score
4
Location
Trinidad and Tobago
Fav. Players
Ronaldo, Maldini, Nesta, Kaká, Ba, Silva
manutd fan said:
Also if we had kept Becks we wouldn't have got Ronaldo (or gone for Ronaldinho (fuck peter kenyon for ruining that one the wanker :mad: and Robben - again due to the traitor Kenyon who was secretly working for Chelsea )



Yorke was great and one of the best buys we ever did. Infact the scout who saw him said Yorke was his best ever find. I miss that smile :proud:
.
Kenyon pulled the deal?? I always thought Fergie said something like "the player wasn't comitted enough" or something of the sort....yes Kenyon is a TOTAL bitch if that's the case. Thanks for the nice words on Yorke :)

Back on topic....I think I'm becoming a CR7 fan by default. The guy is a victim of WAY too much hate.....THAT in itself is actually an indicator of how well he plays.

Think about it....they call him a big game choker....to me the ONLY game he didn't really impress was vs Barca....and despite Messi "doing well" there was no end product....when CR7 does well and there is no end produce there is fire and brimstone for him....but people can still be decent towards messi even when he does the same....it's double standards....fuelled by hate and jealousy. The ONLY player I rate above CR7 is R80/ Kaka....and that's when the're on form. He isn't as talented as Messi for sure but the kid plays his heart out and it's high time he gets the respect he deserves. He works his ass off everywhere....just look at his body and compare it to Kaka's and Messi's.....you'd have no trouble guessing who was doing more training...even Tevez and Rooney have always retained the same body shape ever since they were teenagers.

If Berlu truly wants him I'm all for him wearing red anc black....FFS the guy SCORES in the CL final and people only talk about the missed penalty :head: Only Ronaldo and Ronaldinho ever got that kind of hate....i.e. people still shit on you even though you scored....and THAT is a TESTAMENT to his greatness......player-wise the kid has NO flaws....maybe his passing could be a bit better...but even Messi and Kaka- though marginally more talented have BIG game flaws......I really hope to see Nani get as good as cristiano.....Nani has bags of talent too though I think someone has to develop him to be a striker because Portugal will never win anything without a proper striker.
 

manutd fan

EPL Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
14,946
Reaction score
3
Location
uk
Fav. Players
Eric Cantona, Paul Scholes, Van Nistlerooy, Valencia
drucurl said:
Kenyon pulled the deal?? I always thought Fergie said something like "the player wasn't comitted enough" or something of the sort....yes Kenyon is a TOTAL bitch if that's the case. Thanks for the nice words on Yorke :)

Back on topic....I think I'm becoming a CR7 fan by default. The guy is a victim of WAY too much hate.....THAT in itself is actually an indicator of how well he plays.

Think about it....they call him a big game choker....to me the ONLY game he didn't really impress was vs Barca....and despite Messi "doing well" there was no end product....when CR7 does well and there is no end produce there is fire and brimstone for him....but people can still be decent towards messi even when he does the same....it's double standards....fuelled by hate and jealousy. The ONLY player I rate above CR7 is R80/ Kaka....and that's when the're on form. He isn't as talented as Messi for sure but the kid plays his heart out and it's high time he gets the respect he deserves. He works his ass off everywhere....just look at his body and compare it to Kaka's and Messi's.....you'd have no trouble guessing who was doing more training...even Tevez and Rooney have always retained the same body shape ever since they were teenagers.

If Berlu truly wants him I'm all for him wearing red anc black....FFS the guy SCORES in the CL final and people only talk about the missed penalty :head: Only Ronaldo and Ronaldinho ever got that kind of hate....i.e. people still shit on you even though you scored....and THAT is a TESTAMENT to his greatness......player-wise the kid has NO flaws....maybe his passing could be a bit better...but even Messi and Kaka- though marginally more talented have BIG game flaws......I really hope to see Nani get as good as cristiano.....Nani has bags of talent too though I think someone has to develop him to be a striker because Portugal will never win anything without a proper striker.

Yeah, We agreed a fee with PSG for Ronaldinhi and everything was set, then when we had to fax the actual offer to them we said 12M - not 19M like was agreed between the clubs.

Also he stalled the Robben deal until he went to Chelsea.

That Summer Kenyon left for Chelsea and tried to get Ronaldinho - aswell as taking all of Manutd's targets (duff, Robben, Essien ect,)

But for me Ronaldo has the 'x factor' more than anybody else playing the game. When he's on the ball you sit up as you know something's gonna happen like a peice of skill, great tackle or a bad foul.

He also has the hatability factor. There's never a dull moment with him and he's produced more entertainment this last season than anyone else IMO whether it be a great goal or a dramatic penalty miss.

I think Messi's season last year was very overated aswell. A couple of great goals - one amazing goal and suddenly people are saying he was the best, despite the fact he was injured for large parts of it.

He was also nothing spepcial in the semi's last year of the CL - which is one of Ronaldo's main criticism.

Ronaldo is damned if he does and damned if he don't. If he celebrates he's called arrogant, if he doesn't he's called moody. He does dive but he also gets more kicks than anyone else. After every match his ankles are like baloons - literally.

In my mind he was the only real candidate for it last seson. Torres and Cassillas were a distant 2nd and 3rd IMO, though obviously I'm biased.
 

Mystik

Starting Eleven
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
652
Reaction score
0
Location
Toronto
manutd_fan said:
But for me Ronaldo has the 'x factor' more than anybody else playing the game. When he's on the ball you sit up as you know something's gonna happen like a peice of skill, great tackle or a bad foul.

He also has the hatability factor. There's never a dull moment with him and he's produced more entertainment this last season than anyone else IMO whether it be a great goal or a dramatic penalty miss.

I think Messi's season last year was very overated aswell. A couple of great goals - one amazing goal and suddenly people are saying he was the best, despite the fact he was injured for large parts of it.

He was also nothing spepcial in the semi's last year of the CL - which is one of Ronaldo's main criticism.

Ronaldo is damned if he does and damned if he don't. If he celebrates he's called arrogant, if he doesn't he's called moody. He does dive but he also gets more kicks than anyone else. After every match his ankles are like baloons - literally.

In my mind he was the only real candidate for it last seson. Torres and Cassillas were a distant 2nd and 3rd IMO, though obviously I'm biased.

I haven't posted here in a while but I just had to leave my two cents concerning this matter. manutd_fan, if there's ANYONE in the world with this x_factor then it's Lionel Messi. He's literally unplayable and if you want to talk about entertainment, Messi provides boatloads of it every match (unless entertainment for you = stepovers and pretty flicks). IMO He's the best at dribbling in the world and look a what he's done so far this season now that he's stayed fairly injury free. Also don't even pretend that Messi doesn't get hacked every game...there are at least 3 players on Messi every match just look at the Sevilla game last weekend. Yet he still managed to produce 2 goals.

drucurl said:
Back on topic....I think I'm becoming a CR7 fan by default. The guy is a victim of WAY too much hate.....THAT in itself is actually an indicator of how well he plays.

Think about it....they call him a big game choker....to me the ONLY game he didn't really impress was vs Barca....and despite Messi "doing well" there was no end product....when CR7 does well and there is no end produce there is fire and brimstone for him....but people can still be decent towards messi even when he does the same....it's double standards....fuelled by hate and jealousy. The ONLY player I rate above CR7 is R80/ Kaka....and that's when the're on form. He isn't as talented as Messi for sure but the kid plays his heart out and it's high time he gets the respect he deserves. He works his ass off everywhere....just look at his body and compare it to Kaka's and Messi's.....you'd have no trouble guessing who was doing more training...even Tevez and Rooney have always retained the same body shape ever since they were teenagers.

If Berlu truly wants him I'm all for him wearing red anc black....FFS the guy SCORES in the CL final and people only talk about the missed penalty Only Ronaldo and Ronaldinho ever got that kind of hate....i.e. people still shit on you even though you scored....and THAT is a TESTAMENT to his greatness......player-wise the kid has NO flaws....maybe his passing could be a bit better...but even Messi and Kaka- though marginally more talented have BIG game flaws......I really hope to see Nani get as good as cristiano.....Nani has bags of talent too though I think someone has to develop him to be a striker because Portugal will never win anything without a proper striker.

Dru: The difference between C. Ronaldo and Messi is that Cristiano can actually go MISSING for nearly an entire game, pop in with a goal and he's a hero. He had a great goalscoring tally last season, but goals don't always = good performances and Cristiano doesn't provide the WOW performances that Messi provides which is why I personally rate Messi above him. Messi's game may be incomplete but if he's unplayable as is then why should that concern him? And take a look at Messi's stats so far now that he's avoided injury...that's all I have to say about his end product.
 

manutd fan

EPL Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
14,946
Reaction score
3
Location
uk
Fav. Players
Eric Cantona, Paul Scholes, Van Nistlerooy, Valencia
Mystik said:
I haven't posted here in a while but I just had to leave my two cents concerning this matter. manutd_fan, if there's ANYONE in the world with this x_factor then it's Lionel Messi. He's literally unplayable and if you want to talk about entertainment, Messi provides boatloads of it every match (unless entertainment for you = stepovers and pretty flicks). IMO He's the best at dribbling in the world and look a what he's done so far this season now that he's stayed fairly injury free. Also don't even pretend that Messi doesn't get hacked every game...there are at least 3 players on Messi every match just look at the Sevilla game last weekend. Yet he still managed to produce 2 goals.

I see what you mean, but what I mean by X Factor is that Ronaldo is much more of a character for lack of a better phrase. Poeple look at Messi and think "God he's awesome, how did he do that", but Ronaldo puts many more thoughts in peoples minds. Either when he gets on fans nerves, dives, get taken out, does a peice of skill, makes a mistake, ect.

I think he is more of a performer than Messi in that people watch games just to see him fail.

I do agree though that Messi is more talented, but last year IMO Ronaldo was the better player overall.


Mystik said:
Dru: The difference between C. Ronaldo and Messi is that Cristiano can actually go MISSING for nearly an entire game, pop in with a goal and he's a hero. He had a great goalscoring tally last season, but goals don't always = good performances and Cristiano doesn't provide the WOW performances that Messi provides which is why I personally rate Messi above him. Messi's game may be incomplete but if he's unplayable as is then why should that concern him? And take a look at Messi's stats so far now that he's avoided injury...that's all I have to say about his end product.

Thats actually true. I've said before that Ronaldo's peformances are/were nothing compared to his in 2006/2007 where he blew everybody away up until his injury vs Everton which effectively ended his season.

But you can't look beyond the amount of goals he scored last year IMO.
 

Mystik

Starting Eleven
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
652
Reaction score
0
Location
Toronto
manutd_fan said:
I do agree though that Messi is more talented, but last year IMO Ronaldo was the better player overall.

^^ Last year Messi was injured for a fair amount of the season though so there isn't much to compare to. I'm not taking this Ballon D'or from C. Ronaldo...he definitely deserves it. I'm just saying in general, for the reasons posted above, that I believe Messi is a better player.
 

drucurl

Banned
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
7,703
Reaction score
4
Location
Trinidad and Tobago
Fav. Players
Ronaldo, Maldini, Nesta, Kaká, Ba, Silva
The thing I like about CR7 is that there is no limit of ways he can get to you....he isn't as good at taking on the defense the way Kaka and Messi can...and ofr all his talents he may disappear in a big game or two...but the guy has it all
free kicks, dribbling, tricks, flicks, corners, headders, long range shots, good finishing etc etc....Messi and Kaka don't have such a wide assortment of weapons at their display.

You HAVE to respect the amount of work that CR7 put into getting there.

Mystick...what difference does it make if CR7 goes missing all game or if Messi for all his brilliance can't come up with a tangible contribution? It's the same. We all fail to see how much non-footballing reasons factor into our underrating of him.

CR7 would have never gotten the praise messi got for the goal vs zaragosa....especially given the fact that his side lost the tie afterwards.....what we would have heard from the instant he scored it is that he could only score vs small sides.....but messi scores it and people compare him to Maradonna.

Talent isn't all. And often, as Crespo said talent alone doesn't make you. Denilson was a FAR more talented dribbler than either of Ronaldo OR Maradonna.....but he never worked on his shooting and crossing and never made their LEVEL.....My OWN hero Ronaldo wasn't as good a dribbler as was Maradonna but I'll take Ronaldo at his peak over Maradonna because Ronaldo generally came up with an end product and wrestled and worked against all odds to achieve what he did.
 

Mystik

Starting Eleven
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
652
Reaction score
0
Location
Toronto
Dru: you make it look like Messi is all dribble and no end product. Let me direct you to soccernet for some stats on Messi's season so far: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/players/stats?id=45843&cc=3888

La Liga: 10 starts 1 substitute appearance: 9 goals 6 assists
UEFA CL: 3 starts 2 sub appearances: 5 goals 3 assists

All this without losing his dazzle and flair. Who cares if he isn't as all rounded as C. Ronaldo. He's so good at what he does that no one can stop him. I think you're not giving Messi enough credit...the guy's a beast.
 

acerвιc wιт

Milano Siamo Noi!
Joined
Mar 29, 2003
Messages
11,622
Reaction score
0
Location
Sydney, Australia
Fav. Players
Paolo Maldini, Thiago Silva, Serginho, Kaká, Gennaro Gattuso, Kevin Prince Boateng & Filippo Inzaghi
Messi is a better player at present and will be a better player than C. Ronaldo will ever be.
 

radioactivenerd

Gol de Pablitooooo
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
4,731
Reaction score
0
Location
London, UK
Fav. Players
Maldini, Batistuta, Crespo, Aimar, Roberto Carlos, Totti, Ayala, Rui Costa, Nesta, BARAJA
Man Utd Fan said:
I see what you mean, but what I mean by X Factor is that Ronaldo is much more of a character for lack of a better phrase. Poeple look at Messi and think "God he's awesome, how did he do that", but Ronaldo puts many more thoughts in peoples minds. Either when he gets on fans nerves, dives, get taken out, does a peice of skill, makes a mistake, ect.

I think he is more of a performer than Messi in that people watch games just to see him fail.
I'm not sure what your point is - according to that, you think the fact that CR7 is more hated around the world, and lets be serious - generally IS an arrogant cock, makes for him to be a more entertaining player? i beg to differ. If i had a choice between watching a fantastic player that im neutral towards (messy), or one that i HATE and want to see tackled, i would rather watch the former. Most people watch football to see dribbles, assits, goals, and skill - not to see their hated player getting carved up in a tackle. Or they simply arent football fans.

I dont know how this puts him in any possible way at an advantage to messy though. He's made people hate him by being an ass, and thats not going to make people want to watch him.

drucurl said:
Mystick...what difference does it make if CR7 goes missing all game or if Messi for all his brilliance can't come up with a tangible contribution? It's the same. We all fail to see how much non-footballing reasons factor into our underrating of him.
Really Dru? Stats arent everything, goals arent everything. Are you saying that Gila's NUMEROUS inept performances (take your pick, i cant even select one for all the choice :D), ends up to being the same as Roberto Baggio's 94 final, cos Baggio couldnt come up with a 'tanglible end product'? Or Lampard in the last CL final? Or Mascherano in the 07 CL final? Players can play FANTASTICALLY without ending up with a win. There is a difference in that and ending up with a goal, but doing nothing else through the game. I'd give more credit to the former.

Its easy to call people big game chokers, and i agree, i think crotundo gets that tag a bit more than he really should, but just scoring a goal in a CL final isnt enough to dispel that. Hes NOT a Pippo/Crespo sort of player that shows up with a goal and nothing else. He is the attacking focus of his team, and if he doesnt come good with his dribbles, assists and flicks and watever, he simply hasnt performed to the level he usually does. of course the fact that he scored a goal, might make up for all that, but you are looking at the stats and nothing else - goal in CL Final = CR7 not a choker.

I'm taking nothing away from him as a footballer, and TBH, we dont even know if messy is a big game choker or not yet. the guy has never played in a major final, apart from copa america i think, which he lost rather spectacularly. theres every chance that hes the same sort of thing - he just hasnt been tested yet.
 

Wild

*Rejuvenation*
Joined
Jun 6, 2005
Messages
47,488
Reaction score
16,840
Location
Lebanon-Beirut
Fav. Players
Baresi - Maldini - Nesta - Jessica Alba
Dinho @ his best was better than CR7 , Messi & Ibra combined :D
 

manutd fan

EPL Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
14,946
Reaction score
3
Location
uk
Fav. Players
Eric Cantona, Paul Scholes, Van Nistlerooy, Valencia
radioactivenerd said:
I'm not sure what your point is - according to that, you think the fact that CR7 is more hated around the world, and lets be serious - generally IS an arrogant cock, makes for him to be a more entertaining player? i beg to differ. If i had a choice between watching a fantastic player that im neutral towards (messy), or one that i HATE and want to see tackled, i would rather watch the former. Most people watch football to see dribbles, assits, goals, and skill - not to see their hated player getting carved up in a tackle. Or they simply arent football fans.

I dont know how this puts him in any possible way at an advantage to messy though. He's made people hate him by being an ass, and thats not going to make people want to watch him.

.

tbh, I'm not sure what I meant either lol. I'll try to explain it without repeating the same thing.

For me, Ronaldo was the total package last season. He was much more of a character on the pitch than Messi. I'm not saying thats what you look for in the Ballon D'or winner, but its a small thing which can help your chances.

Ronaldo was the most entertaining player last year. He did all the the things Messi did (score great goals, produce moments of magic etc.) But he also had something else. The only way I can describe it is more dramatic. There was never a dull moment. Even when he is having an off game there were still massive talking points - thats what Messi doesn't have IMO.

I know exactly what I mean, but I'm struggling to put it into words, which is why I said "X Factor" before.
 

WILL2K

Magical Milan
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Messages
5,030
Reaction score
1,823
Location
Budapest, Hungary
Fav. Players
Pippo , Maldini , Kaka , Zizou ..
I am still waiting for C.Ronaldo to score solo goals ( such as dribbling passed 2-3 players at least e.g most of the great players with pace have done it , Maradona, Ronaldo , Ronaldinho to name a few ) and at the same time for him to lead his team in a big game with some great performances. He's young and perhaps can do it , but for the time being Messi/Kaka beats him there eventhough they lacked ' consistency' in the previous season. We have to wait and see. :D
 
Last edited:

drucurl

Banned
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
7,703
Reaction score
4
Location
Trinidad and Tobago
Fav. Players
Ronaldo, Maldini, Nesta, Kaká, Ba, Silva
manutd fan said:
tbh, I'm not sure what I meant either lol. I'll try to explain it without repeating the same thing.

For me, Ronaldo was the total package last season. He was much more of a character on the pitch than Messi. I'm not saying thats what you look for in the Ballon D'or winner, but its a small thing which can help your chances.

Ronaldo was the most entertaining player last year. He did all the the things Messi did (score great goals, produce moments of magic etc.) But he also had something else. The only way I can describe it is more dramatic. There was never a dull moment. Even when he is having an off game there were still massive talking points - thats what Messi doesn't have IMO.

I know exactly what I mean, but I'm struggling to put it into words, which is why I said "X Factor" before.
I'd disagree....watching Messi or Kaka is waay easier on the eye than watching CR7....they are far more naturally talented....hence their movements are more gentle more seemless than CR7 who's movement are more rigid and structured (the result of training/practise)....like the goal.com guy said the difference between dodging bullets and containing the breeze.

For an analogy, consider shevchenko at his peak vs Ronaldo......Sheva was at the time THE MOST COMPLETE STRIKER in the universe.....there was NOTHING missing from his Arsenal....But Ronaldo "had goals in his DNA" as Dunga put it. Ronaldo's moves were simpler, less deliberate and decidedly more beautiful than Sheva's....BUT when Sheva won the golden ball he deserved it because he was a FAR better contributor to Milan despite his lower talent level.
 

Ashish

Milan Legend
Joined
Jan 21, 2008
Messages
39,087
Reaction score
4,029
Location
Florida
Fav. Players
R.I.P. Papa Berlu, G, R9, Nesta, Rui, Maldini, Gattuso, Robert Wieckiewicz, Brendan Gleeson
The Ballon D’oh; Santa Klaas
December 2nd, 2008 | By: Julian | 7 Comments »

*Disclaimer: This post has little to do with Italian football. If that offends you in any way, feel free to stop reading now*

As everyone knows by now (let’s be honest- we’ve known for a while), Christiano Ronaldo has won the Ballon D’or. Let’s not mince words: I can’t stand him. He’s arrogant, he dives, he disappears in big games faster than people’s interest in Sarah Palin. He does shit all for his country, and between his ego and hair gel, his head must weigh a good 20 pounds.

And despite all that… I think he probably deserves it.

Let’s face it- no Italian player was going to win it this year. Not after our Euro showing, and how poorly the country did in Europe (besides Roma). And there was no real other competitor. Messi is my favorite non-Italian player, and he was injured far too often to win it. Spain had some decent candidates- Torres had a great season, and Iker was solid all last year, though he probably blew any chance he had with Madrid’s horribleness so far this year.

When you boil it down, there really wasn’t anyone left. Ronaldo had 42 goals, and though he’s an arrogant ass of a person, it’s hard to ignore the stats.

But it brings up an interesting point; there are far too many players who deserve the award and have never earned it. Chief amongst them is Paolo Maldini, loyal captain of Milan. He’s spent over 20 years playing as one of the greatest defenders to ever grace the game, and never once clinched the award. Totti and Del P have never won it either, and they’ve done more for their clubs than most players ever do. Finally, Buffon has never won the award either, which just goes to show that even the best player in the world at his position can miss out if he’s not an attacking player.

In other news, Madrid got thier Christmas present a little bit early. They’ve signed Santa Klaas-Jan Huntelaar, who’s been a very solid striker over at Ajax.
christmas-gift-300x225.jpg
100 goals inside :)

This interests me for two reasons: One, I had no idea clubs could make transfers legally before the transfer window opened, and two, I’m very interested to see how he does over at Madrid. I would’ve loved to see him over in Italy, though.
 

manutd fan

EPL Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
14,946
Reaction score
3
Location
uk
Fav. Players
Eric Cantona, Paul Scholes, Van Nistlerooy, Valencia
Ronaldo humbled by honour

Cristiano Ronaldo has denied claiming he is the best player on the planet after collecting the Ballon d'Or.

The Manchester United superstar was in Paris on Sunday to pick up his award from France Football magazine.

The Portuguese winger had been quoted in recent weeks as saying he deserved to take the honour as he had been the standout talent over the last 12 months.

However, the 23-year-old insists he never made the attributed statement and admits he feels privileged to be held in such high regard.

Respect
"I never said that I was the best player in the world," he said. "I always said that I was well-placed to win the Ballon d'Or.

"I have always had a lot of respect for the other players.

"It is not necessary to say who is the best player in the world, but who has an advantage, and I was carried along by this hope.

"All the players nominated had the possibility of winning this prize.

"Me, I have had this possibility and this privilege, but all the nominees had the qualities to win the award."


Ambitious
Ronaldo was consistently linked with a big-money move to Spanish giants Real Madrid over the summer, before eventually deciding to stay in England.

He now insists that Old Trafford has become his spiritual home and believes there is much more he can achieve with the Red Devils in the future.

"I have played for five years with Manchester United, a club where I feel at home," he added.

"I arrived there very young, and I have won individual and team titles.

"Today I have this individual reward which makes me happy.

"It is the culmination of work which I put in place a long time ago, but I am ambitious.

"It is imperative that I continue to win both individual and team titles."

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_4605456,00.html
 

drucurl

Banned
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
7,703
Reaction score
4
Location
Trinidad and Tobago
Fav. Players
Ronaldo, Maldini, Nesta, Kaká, Ba, Silva
manutd fan said:
Cristiano Ronaldo has denied claiming he is the best player on the planet after collecting the Ballon d'Or.

The Manchester United superstar was in Paris on Sunday to pick up his award from France Football magazine.

The Portuguese winger had been quoted in recent weeks as saying he deserved to take the honour as he had been the standout talent over the last 12 months.

However, the 23-year-old insists he never made the attributed statement and admits he feels privileged to be held in such high regard.

Respect
"I never said that I was the best player in the world," he said. "I always said that I was well-placed to win the Ballon d'Or.

"I have always had a lot of respect for the other players.

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_4605456,00.html
I like CR7 and all but that is just damage control for all the shit he said before really it's pathetic.....Ronaldo, Zidane, Nedved, and especially Ronaldinho and Kaka were extremely humble and gracious about the whole thing....he is just trying to add some class to it all. epic fail :o
 
Last edited:

radioactivenerd

Gol de Pablitooooo
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
4,731
Reaction score
0
Location
London, UK
Fav. Players
Maldini, Batistuta, Crespo, Aimar, Roberto Carlos, Totti, Ayala, Rui Costa, Nesta, BARAJA
manutd fan said:
Cristiano Ronaldo has denied claiming he is the best player on the planet after collecting the Ballon d'Or.

The Manchester United superstar was in Paris on Sunday to pick up his award from France Football magazine.

The Portuguese winger had been quoted in recent weeks as saying he deserved to take the honour as he had been the standout talent over the last 12 months.

However, the 23-year-old insists he never made the attributed statement and admits he feels privileged to be held in such high regard.

Respect
"I never said that I was the best player in the world," he said. "I always said that I was well-placed to win the Ballon d'Or.

"I have always had a lot of respect for the other players.

"It is not necessary to say who is the best player in the world, but who has an advantage, and I was carried along by this hope.

"All the players nominated had the possibility of winning this prize.

"Me, I have had this possibility and this privilege, but all the nominees had the qualities to win the award."


Ambitious
Ronaldo was consistently linked with a big-money move to Spanish giants Real Madrid over the summer, before eventually deciding to stay in England.

He now insists that Old Trafford has become his spiritual home and believes there is much more he can achieve with the Red Devils in the future.

"I have played for five years with Manchester United, a club where I feel at home," he added.

"I arrived there very young, and I have won individual and team titles.

"Today I have this individual reward which makes me happy.

"It is the culmination of work which I put in place a long time ago, but I am ambitious.

"It is imperative that I continue to win both individual and team titles."

http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11095_4605456,00.html
Hypocrisy, thy name is Cristiano Ronaldo Gerrard.
 

menon_inc

¤ I Still Believe ¤
Joined
Dec 14, 2003
Messages
5,974
Reaction score
0
Location
Malaysia
drucurl said:
I'd disagree....watching Messi or Kaka is waay easier on the eye than watching CR7....they are far more naturally talented...

I totally disagree with you on that. How are Kaka or Messi naturally more talented then CR7? They are both probably faster than him and that's about the only natural attribute they have that is better than him. Lets face it, Ronaldo is better than them in terms of heading, shooting, set pieces, goal scoring ability, positioning and consistency. He is also young and has years to ahead of him to improve and become a complete player. He just needs to focus more on being a football player and less of a cunt and he should be able to do so.
 
Last edited:

drucurl

Banned
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
7,703
Reaction score
4
Location
Trinidad and Tobago
Fav. Players
Ronaldo, Maldini, Nesta, Kaká, Ba, Silva
menon_inc said:
I totally disagree with you on that. How are Kaka or Messi naturally more talented then CR7? They are both probably faster than him and that's about the only natural attribute they have that is better than him. Lets face it, Ronaldo is better than them in terms of heading, shooting, set pieces, goal scoring ability, positioning and consistency. He is also young and has years to ahead of him to improve and become a complete player. He just needs to focus more on being a football player and less of a cunt and he should be able to do so.
Actually the stats I read sometime ago (someone posted them on this forum) show that CR7 is actually faster than Messi and on par with Kaka when it comes to speed (Kaka is the faster runner but CR7 is marginally faster with the ball) When I said "more talented" I meant in terms of their footballing instincts. To me they move in more of a fluid motion than CR7....even SAF was forced to remark that Messi moving with the ball looked like it was stapled to his feet. CR7 is indeed better at the things you mentioned....but he wasn't always those things....I believe they came from practise and training rather than a natural ability that matured with time. That last statment would seem silly but those things anyone can work on.....if Kaka had CR7's dedication I'm pretty sure that he would be good with free kicks too, because he always had good shooting technique naturally. The way a person moves however has more to do with the person himself than what he has trained himself to do of course that's just my opinion however idiotic it might sound. Kaka is behind CR7 in many things and yet they can be compared and when Kaka is on form he is better....why is that?
 

menon_inc

¤ I Still Believe ¤
Joined
Dec 14, 2003
Messages
5,974
Reaction score
0
Location
Malaysia
drucurl said:
Actually the stats I read sometime ago (someone posted them on this forum) show that CR7 is actually faster than Messi and on par with Kaka when it comes to speed (Kaka is the faster runner but CR7 is marginally faster with the ball) When I said "more talented" I meant in terms of their footballing instincts. To me they move in more of a fluid motion than CR7....even SAF was forced to remark that Messi moving with the ball looked like it was stapled to his feet. CR7 is indeed better at the things you mentioned....but he wasn't always those things....I believe they came from practise and training rather than a natural ability that matured with time. That last statment would seem silly but those things anyone can work on.....if Kaka had CR7's dedication I'm pretty sure that he would be good with free kicks too, because he always had good shooting technique naturally. The way a person moves however has more to do with the person himself than what he has trained himself to do of course that's just my opinion however idiotic it might sound. Kaka is behind CR7 in many things and yet they can be compared and when Kaka is on form he is better....why is that?

Well i don't agree with that. You can train as hard as you want but you are not going to score 40+ goals a season as a winger and the goals coming from all angles for that matter...left, right, down the middle, one to ones, shot from outside the box, set pieces, headers...you name it. I watch nearly all of CR7's matches for Man Utd and Kaka's matches for Milan unless something unexpected comes up and i can say that they can be equally as devastating when on form. Kaka can do well breaking from the middle...playing trough balls and taking shots while CR7 can come at you from all sort of angles...left, right, shot from distance and set pieces. The reason people come out and say that Kaka on form is better than CR7 is because they tend to look back at the man utd vs milan match that took place 2 seasons ago in which Kaka looked way better. I believed that Kaka's good form was contributed by the fact United did not have an out and out defensive midfielder to man mark him and stop him in his tracks. Carrick is more of a Pirlo like player than a defensive midfielder and was no way going to do a decent man on man job at marking Kaka. CR7 on the other hand found himself in no mans land as he was marked by Rino on the right and Ambro on the left. They both suck when they are marked. I guess a good example of this would be the CL final in 05 when Kaka was absolutely devastating in the first half when he did not have a player man marking him and was ineffective as soon as Liverpool put Hamann to man mark him. In order for both of them to reach a new height ala Zidane, Dinho, etc.....they would need to work on getting pass markers like Dinho and Zidane and a host of great players were able to do in their prime.
 

drucurl

Banned
Joined
Apr 22, 2007
Messages
7,703
Reaction score
4
Location
Trinidad and Tobago
Fav. Players
Ronaldo, Maldini, Nesta, Kaká, Ba, Silva
menon_inc said:
Well i don't agree with that. You can train as hard as you want but you are not going to score 40+ goals a season as a winger and the goals coming from all angles for that matter...left, right, down the middle, one to ones, shot from outside the box, set pieces, headers...you name it. I watch nearly all of CR7's matches for Man Utd and Kaka's matches for Milan unless something unexpected comes up and i can say that they can be equally as devastating when on form. Kaka can do well breaking from the middle...playing trough balls and taking shots while CR7 can come at you from all sort of angles...left, right, shot from distance and set pieces. The reason people come out and say that Kaka on form is better than CR7 is because they tend to look back at the man utd vs milan match that took place 2 seasons ago in which Kaka looked way better. I believed that Kaka's good form was contributed by the fact United did not have an out and out defensive midfielder to man mark him and stop him in his tracks. Carrick is more of a Pirlo like player than a defensive midfielder and was no way going to do a decent man on man job at marking Kaka. CR7 on the other hand found himself in no mans land as he was marked by Rino on the right and Ambro on the left. They both suck when they are marked. I guess a good example of this would be the CL final in 05 when Kaka was absolutely devastating in the first half when he did not have a player man marking him and was ineffective as soon as Liverpool put Hamann to man mark him. In order for both of them to reach a new height ala Zidane, Dinho, etc.....they would need to work on getting pass markers like Dinho and Zidane and a host of great players were able to do in their prime.

Well obviously CR7 has a lot of natural talent....hard work alone can't take you where he is. But I was talking about in terms of the best of the best I believe that Kaka and Messi are ahead in terms of natural ability than CR7. People tend to knock Kaka a lot for not performing as well when marked and the criticism is valid but to an extent almost all players are markable....with aenough preparation a manager can take almost any player out of a game.

I thought Kaka had a better second half after Bentiez took off Mascherano.....coming down to the end, he went on a solo run that almost led to a goal and he beat at least two defenders before laying it off for Inzaghi's second.

But you are right....kaka, CR7 and Messi have a bit more work to reach the Zidane, ronaldinho, Ronaldo level where defenses don't matter. In truth it looks like Messi might be best able to match their standards because of his ability to weave through the tightest of spaces....then again with the "quality spanish defenses" it's still debateable.

What I refered to was the mechanics of motion for either of the players. Look at how Ronaldo or Adriano beat players in their prime and compare it to hew Sheva did it. When Ronaldo, ronaldinho or even Adriano beat a marker they needed minimal 'recovery' distance since the ball wouldn't be pushed too far away from their original position. The movements were smaller, tighter and more graceful. When Sheva beat a man the movements were slightly more unrefined (i.e. he'd have to go back further to get the ball (more "recovery" distance)) and a lot of movement was wasted.....Then compare Ronaldo's moves to Maradonna's.....maradonna wasted no movement at all....ronaldo still had to move back to get the ball....Maradonna looked like he glued the ball to his boots....there ws almost no recovery distance because every movement advanced his overall trajectory. I know this is a piss poor explanation and I look like an absolute idiot so I'll shut up now :D
 

menon_inc

¤ I Still Believe ¤
Joined
Dec 14, 2003
Messages
5,974
Reaction score
0
Location
Malaysia
drucurl said:
What I refered to was the mechanics of motion for either of the players. Look at how Ronaldo or Adriano beat players in their prime and compare it to hew Sheva did it. When Ronaldo, ronaldinho or even Adriano beat a marker they needed minimal 'recovery' distance since the ball wouldn't be pushed too far away from their original position. The movements were smaller, tighter and more graceful. When Sheva beat a man the movements were slightly more unrefined (i.e. he'd have to go back further to get the ball (more "recovery" distance)) and a lot of movement was wasted.....Then compare Ronaldo's moves to Maradonna's.....maradonna wasted no movement at all....ronaldo still had to move back to get the ball....Maradonna looked like he glued the ball to his boots....there ws almost no recovery distance because every movement advanced his overall trajectory. I know this is a piss poor explanation and I look like an absolute idiot so I'll shut up now :D

I get where you're going but you seem to be limiting natural abilities to abilities to take on players over all other aspects. There is a lot of other aspects that needs to be looked at like headers, set pieces, shooting, natural goal scoring instinct and and consistency. There is no point in being all flashy when you lack in other areas. I guess players like Denilson will come to mind as being all flashy but lacking in many other departments ;)
 

Wet Ones

Campione d’Italia
Joined
Mar 19, 2008
Messages
3,649
Reaction score
24
Location
Rif Mountains
Fav. Players
Whoever helps make Milan untouchable
drucurl said:
I thought Kaka had a better second half after Bentiez took off Mascherano.....coming down to the end, he went on a solo run that almost led to a goal and he beat at least two defenders before laying it off for Inzaghi's second.
He said '05, not '07 :D
 

manutd fan

EPL Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2008
Messages
14,946
Reaction score
3
Location
uk
Fav. Players
Eric Cantona, Paul Scholes, Van Nistlerooy, Valencia
I think one major advantage Ronaldo has over the other 2 is that if all 3 players are having a shocker and being marked out of the game, he hurt you more than the other two with his free kicks and heading ability.

I do think though that Messi has the potential to be in another league to both Kaka and Ronaldo, but at the same time I don't think he'll reach that level because of how injury prone he is.
 

Jasper

Maldini tier
Joined
Oct 27, 2005
Messages
47,247
Reaction score
44
Location
Mt. Paektu
Fav. Players
3; Marat Safin; Tiziano Crudeli; 2Pac; Christian Bale; Martin M??rsepp; Balotelli.
This years list was introduced today. No Italians, no current Milan players in the list. Serie A is obviously in a low in this measurement as well.

The list:
Andreï Archavine -- (Russia, Arsenal) [dunno why they spell it like that]
Karim Benzema -- (France, Lyon then Real Madrid)
Iker Casillas -- (Spain, Real Madrid)
Cristiano Ronaldo -- (Portugal, Manchester United then Real Madrid)
Diego -- (Brazil, Werder Brême then Juventus Turin)
Didier Drogba -- (Côte d'Ivoire, Chelsea)
Edin Dzeko -- (Bosnia, Wolfsburg)
Samuel Eto'o -- (Cameroon, FC Barcelone then Inter Milan)
Cesc Fabregas -- (Spain, Arsenal)
Fernando Torres-- (Spain, Liverpool)
Diego Forlan -- (Uruguay, Atletico Madrid)
Steven Gerrard -- (England, Liverpool)
Ryan Giggs -- (Wales, Manchester United)
Yoann Gourcuff -- (France, Bordeaux)
Thierry Henry -- (France, FC Barcelone)
Zlatan Ibrahimovic -- (Sweden, Inter Milan then FC Barcelone)
Iniesta -- (Spain, FC Barcelone)
Julio Cesar -- (Brazil, Inter Milan)
Kakà -- (Brazil, Milan AC then Real Madrid)
Frank Lampard -- (England, Chelsea)
Maicon -- (Brazil, Inter Milan)
Lionel Messi -- (Argentina, FC Barcelone)
Luis Fabiano -- (Brazil, FC Séville)
Franck Ribéry -- (France, Bayern Munich)
Wayne Rooney -- (England, Manchester United)
John Terry -- (England, Chelsea)
Nemanja Vidic-- (Serbia, Manchester United)
David Villa -- (Spain, Valencia)
Xavi -- (Spain, FC Barcelone)
Yaya Touré-- (Côte d'Ivoire, FC Barcelone)

http://www.imscouting.com/global_news_item.aspx?id=3362
 
Top