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Old 29-08-2017, 14:11   #41
Rumpelstiltskin
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Originally Posted by Gator_McKlusky View Post
Good job at not reading my post then, where I clearly stated that I wanted to know whether or not it actually WAS Montolivo's fault or not, and not just blaming him. As a matter of fact, I'm even going to do something I rarely ever do; I'm going to call somebody, in this case you, an enormous fucking twat.
I literally state, and I copy fucking paste here: "But blaming this entirely on Monty's suckage is wrong."

Fact; I never gave my opinion on Montolivo regarding the entire match! I only looked at situations where Cagliari could've scored!

As a holding mid, Monty was utter crap. As a forward mid, I think he was actually quite decent, regardless of what others think of him. Rewatch the last 30 minutes, and notice that on several occasions he showcased quite clever and creative plays. Don't ever use him as a DM again; Biglia is superior; Locatelli far more potential with already higher defensive awareness. As forward CM (where he hasn't played a lot yet, but the few times he did this season) he's actually not that bad.


4/10 pre-Biglia. 7/10 post-Biglia.
So anyone who doesn't agree with your analysis is an "enormous fucking twat"?

I've clearly stated in my post that I haven't read the rest of your post, but I don't agree with the analysis of the goal.

"Ball goes wide to free man, and now Monty touches it. Fucking. Idiot. Instead of letting the ball roll closer towards Bonucci by NOT doing anything, he manages to graze it and put it in front of the opponent... Bonucci can't get there in time anymore, ball goes wide, #10 scores. The #10 Montolivo was supposed to mark."

^^^This certainly doesn't seem like an unbiased analysis.

1. The goal was primarily Kessie's fault. He called for the ball (seems like Montella instructed him to do so from the sideline), took a couple of bad touches and gave the Cagliari players the opportunity to close in on him. He had plenty of time to pass it to Conti or even Bonucci who was in space. Instead, he tried to take on a couple of Cagliari players and lost the ball in a very dangerous position.

2. Montolivo was tracking Sau's run. It was a 4 on 3 situation, he couldn't have possibly marked both Sau and Farias. Bonucci made the mistake of moving towards goal instead of putting pressure on Farias who was completely unmarked at the edge of the area.

3. Sau didn't time his run properly, was already ahead of the ball and couldn't latch on to Barella's pass. Montolivo did the right thing by trying to intercept the ball, since Farias was approaching, and would've reached it before Bonucci. Unfortunately he couldn't clear the ball properly although he was at full stretch, and it fell kindly for Farias.

One can hardly blame Montolivo for the goal, you're trying to make it seem like it was primarily his fault, although you haven't expressly stated that.

I didn't bother to read the rest of your post since I don't want to waste my time reading the opinion of another biased Montolivo hater, we already get enough of that on RnB.


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Old 29-08-2017, 14:12   #42
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I would like to make two things clear;
1) I don't particularly like or dislike Montolivo; I can merely observe how he played and plays, and base my opinion on whether I think he, in general, should be a starter or not. Overall seen; no, in the position he has played lately, he does not convince me to be a starter.
2) I didn't write this analysis with any older matches in mind; I only based my opinion on what I saw in -this- match, leaving out any personal preference or historical knowledge. I just looked at this match (several times), and observed what he did or didn't do; both regarding his personal skill and his fit in Montellas tactics.

It's real easy to notice someone play shit and keep hammering on that. But once Biglia came on and Montolivo isn't DM anymore (>65th minute):
- All except 2 (out of 10) of his passes reached their target; including several long ranged ones.
- Prevents build up play several times by clever positioning, including 3 interceptions.
- Gives the pass from which Suso was fouled, which became the FK for the 2-1. Was a long range pass too; Suso after receiving the ball starts to cut to the middle, where he was fouled.
- He earned a penal. Got his shirt pulled for a rather long time. If the ref would've VAR'd it; 100% penalty given.
- The first pass he misses is because of a succesful interception in the 89th minute. He corrects this by a tackle, earning him yellow. But this was a sort of a good foul, because Cagliari had a lot of room otherwise.
- The second pass he misses was towards Kessié in the 92nd minute in the opposing half's penalty area.
- There's another time a pass doesn't reach, but it's cancelled anyway by the referee. Did not count that as a pass nor as a miss, because it's nullified anyway.

Again; I don't care about Montolivo, neither attacking nor defending him. Merely observing how he did. In the beginning; crap. In the end; not that bad.

There's this little thing called "confirmation bias". You see what you want to see, you ignore what you don't. Try leaving that out when observing and analyzing.


I hope it's clear now that I observed with a bare minimum of personal preference as possible.
On a personal note: I got some nice feedback, and might actually do some more of these analysis posts (whether its about a single player or the whole match, I'll see then), because I can have my moments of being bored, and I like doing it. And guess what? Getting into discussions is a great way to learn. I don't mind discussing the (quality of the) content of the post and conclusions, but I do mind the way of discussing it. I try to be civil, I sort of expect the same courtesy. I'm too old for flaming and insulting. Please don't waste my time with it.
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Old 29-08-2017, 14:15   #43
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Cool thread but, there's this little thing called "confirmation bias". You see what you want to see, you ignore what you don't. Try leaving that out when observing and analyzing.


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Old 29-08-2017, 14:24   #44
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Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post
So anyone who doesn't agree with your analysis is an "enormous fucking twat"?

I've clearly stated in my post that I haven't read the rest of your post, but I don't agree with the analysis of the goal.

"Ball goes wide to free man, and now Monty touches it. Fucking. Idiot. Instead of letting the ball roll closer towards Bonucci by NOT doing anything, he manages to graze it and put it in front of the opponent... Bonucci can't get there in time anymore, ball goes wide, #10 scores. The #10 Montolivo was supposed to mark."

^^^This certainly doesn't seem like an unbiased analysis.

1. The goal was primarily Kessie's fault. He called for the ball (seems like Montella instructed him to do so from the sideline), took a couple of bad touches and gave the Cagliari players the opportunity to close in on him. He had plenty of time to pass it to Conti or even Bonucci who was in space. Instead, he tried to take on a couple of Cagliari players and lost the ball in a very dangerous position.

2. Montolivo was tracking Sau's run. It was a 4 on 3 situation, he couldn't have possibly marked both Sau and Farias. Bonucci made the mistake of moving towards goal instead of putting pressure on Farias who was completely unmarked at the edge of the area.

3. Sau didn't time his run properly, was already ahead of the ball and couldn't latch on to Barella's pass. Montolivo did the right thing by trying to intercept the ball, since Farias was approaching, and would've reached it before Bonucci. Unfortunately he couldn't clear the ball properly although he was at full stretch, and it fell kindly for Farias.

One can hardly blame Montolivo for the goal, you're trying to make it seem like it was primarily his fault, although you haven't expressly stated that.

I didn't bother to read the rest of your post since I don't want to waste my time reading the opinion of another biased Montolivo hater, we already get enough of that on RnB.

No, I'm calling you a fucking twat because you obviously can't read. I stated clearly that the goal WASN'T Montolivo's fault.
1: Kessie doesn't call for the ball, he merely runs towards Donna because he sees Donna isn't playing it anywhere.
2: Instead of Montolivo at least guarding 1 of the 2 players near him, he leaves position and goes towards a third player.
3: #18 tries to play into #25, but misses. #17 who receives is completely free; if montolivo wouldn't have gone for #25 but stuck with either #17 or #10, which were close to him from the beginning, the ball (most likely) wouldn't have gone towards the goal.

As I said; literally, multiple times: I DO NOT BLAME MONTOLIVO FOR THE GOAL!
It was a clusterfuck from everyone involved. Bonucci stayed too far back, Musacchio stayed too wide, Donna distributed wrong, Monty didn't take position well.

But, given the fact that I also several times said that I'm not a Montolivo hater, and you repeatedly keep ignoring that; I assume you have little to no readingskills nor comprehension. So I have actually no clue why I'm replying to you.
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Old 29-08-2017, 14:28   #45
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ok, we are at: learn to read now.



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Old 29-08-2017, 14:45   #46
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Originally Posted by Gator_McKlusky View Post
No, I'm calling you a fucking twat because you obviously can't read. I stated clearly that the goal WASN'T Montolivo's fault.
1: Kessie doesn't call for the ball, he merely runs towards Donna because he sees Donna isn't playing it anywhere.
2: Instead of Montolivo at least guarding 1 of the 2 players near him, he leaves position and goes towards a third player.
3: #18 tries to play into #25, but misses. #17 who receives is completely free; if montolivo wouldn't have gone for #25 but stuck with either #17 or #10, which were close to him from the beginning, the ball (most likely) wouldn't have gone towards the goal.

As I said; literally, multiple times: I DO NOT BLAME MONTOLIVO FOR THE GOAL!
It was a clusterfuck from everyone involved. Bonucci stayed too far back, Musacchio stayed too wide, Donna distributed wrong, Monty didn't take position well.

But, given the fact that I also several times said that I'm not a Montolivo hater, and you repeatedly keep ignoring that; I assume you have little to no readingskills nor comprehension. So I have actually no clue why I'm replying to you.
You're just pretending to be unbiased, you're not fooling anyone with your "unbiased analysis".

"1: Kessie doesn't call for the ball, he merely runs towards Donna because he sees Donna isn't playing it anywhere."

Watch the replay again, Montella instructs him to move towards the box, which he does, clearly implying that he wants Donna to play the ball to him.

"3: #18 tries to play into #25, but misses. #17 who receives is completely free; if montolivo wouldn't have gone for #25 but stuck with either #17 or #10, which were close to him from the beginning, the ball (most likely) wouldn't have gone towards the goal."

So he was supposed to leave the man who was at a better goalscoring position completely free?


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Old 29-08-2017, 15:09   #47
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Seedorf was the only manager we have had since Terim who genuinely went about dividing the dressing room and creating issues. He should've been thrown out earlier than he was.

We have had fairly harmonious dressing rooms under everyone else - even under Leonardo.
I was all for dividing the dressing room and cleaning out the fodder. It was bringing us results after all.

One of Milans biggest fuckups was making Monto the captain after 1 year. He had no right to have that sort of influence in the dressing room after 1 season. We had a long tradition of rewarding the longest serving player with the captaincy (ambrosini over gattuso etc)...Montolivos captaincy was bound to cause disharmony in many ways.


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Old 29-08-2017, 15:10   #48
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Great thread. I rate 5/5 's
Now please do an analysis of Montella's terrible line-up choices, subs and tactics please. I believe Montella was the one primarily at fault for us almost losing the 3 points vs Cagliari.
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Old 29-08-2017, 15:35   #49
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Originally Posted by Fio View Post
An even better pro-tip: DOn't watch GoT at all, Vikings is better, watch that bro.


Tywin: " Any man who must say ‘I am the king’ is no true king "

Ragnar " Tywin who?? "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdTtvsMBL_Q

And Katheryn Winnick is the most beautiful woman on earth

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Old 29-08-2017, 15:50   #50
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I was all for dividing the dressing room and cleaning out the fodder. It was bringing us results after all.

One of Milans biggest fuckups was making Monto the captain after 1 year. He had no right to have that sort of influence in the dressing room after 1 season. We had a long tradition of rewarding the longest serving player with the captaincy (ambrosini over gattuso etc)...Montolivos captaincy was bound to cause disharmony in many ways.
That's a nonsense way of coaching and maybe fine for clubs like Pisa or whatever. Would never have worked at Milan for long. Seedorf has a massive ego which prevented him from being an effective man manager.

Making Montolivo the captain was also a potentially good decision at that time. Galliani wanted to build a new team with a young core and no baggage. It failed due to SO many reasons, the biggest of which is lack of investment and a half-senile owner. Little to do with Montolivo's captaincy.


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Old 29-08-2017, 15:56   #51
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That's a nonsense way of coaching and maybe fine for clubs like Pisa or whatever. Would never have worked at Milan for long. Seedorf has a massive ego which prevented him from being an effective man manager.

Making Montolivo the captain was also a potentially good decision at that time. Galliani wanted to build a new team with a young core and no baggage. It failed due to SO many reasons, the biggest of which is lack of investment and a half-senile owner. Little to do with Montolivo's captaincy.
Biggest piece of BS ever

what young core? Essien? Alex? Torres? Kaka? Bakaye? Matri? Muntari?

Essien despite being utter garbage kept getting on the teamsheet. One of the reasons why Cristante demanded a move. We kept playing fossils

One of the few reasons why Locatelli was able to get consistent game time was because we shifted from collecting past it super stars to bang average players. Not to mention we didnt have anyone else in that position.
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Old 29-08-2017, 16:10   #52
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Biggest piece of BS ever

what young core? Essien? Alex? Torres? Kaka? Bakaye? Matri? Muntari?

Essien despite being utter garbage kept getting on the teamsheet. One of the reasons why Cristante demanded a move. We kept playing fossils

One of the few reasons why Locatelli was able to get consistent game time was because we shifted from collecting past it super stars to bang average players. Not to mention we didnt have anyone else in that position.
We tried out so many guys in their 20s dude to build that team. Most failed. Balotelli, El Shaarawy, Niang, van Ginkel, Destro, Poli, Rami, Taarabt..

Bonaventura was the only one who lasted.


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Old 29-08-2017, 16:13   #53
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First off; apologies if I seemed like a cock before. I sleep like shit lately and hadn't eaten. So went to exercise a bit and realized I was being a bit of a cock. This with the insinuation that my motives are shady make me a bit cranky. I'll try to respond with decency again, now that I've eaten and had 7 mugs of coffee.

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Originally Posted by Rumpelstiltskin View Post
You're just pretending to be unbiased, you're not fooling anyone with your "unbiased analysis".

"1: Kessie doesn't call for the ball, he merely runs towards Donna because he sees Donna isn't playing it anywhere."

Watch the replay again, Montella instructs him to move towards the box, which he does, clearly implying that he wants Donna to play the ball to him.

"3: #18 tries to play into #25, but misses. #17 who receives is completely free; if montolivo wouldn't have gone for #25 but stuck with either #17 or #10, which were close to him from the beginning, the ball (most likely) wouldn't have gone towards the goal."

So he was supposed to leave the man who was at a better goalscoring position completely free?

If I truly was biased; why would I bother defending him for his last 30-35 minute performance? It would've been easier pointing out what he did wrong (lost the ball twice and got a yellow) than pointing out what he did right. He did well after Biglia came on. He didn't do well before. Monty in general isn't a liked player on this forum; so me going along in those lines would've been easier. Yet I defended his last performance, because in truth, I think it was good. Furthermore; I can hardly -hate- someone I don't know. I only see him play, I don't know him personally, so based on that I either think he fits our formation and has the level to be worthy of AC-Milan, or not. However, I can't change your perception, so whether or not you think I'm anti Montolivo or not is up to you. If you doubt my intentions; so be it.

1) I did watch the replay. Montella does indeed instruct him to more towards the box; 100% agreed. Implying that he wants Donna to play to him is an assumption. You can also assume he wants Kessié to move closer to open mid. Orto pull someone away from Monty so that Bonucci has less to worry about if the ball comes to him. Or to make #25 go closer to Kessié to open Musacchio for play. We have no clue what Montella wanted; we can only safely say that Donna's pass towards Kessié shouldn't have been done.

2) Yes. I did want Montolivo to stick with his man.
Scenarios:
1: #25 would've gotten to the ball; in which case there was Bonucci and Donna left to beat, while he was in running stride.
2: the ball would've ended up at #17. By the time he has control over the ball: Bonucci is standing right in front of him.
3: if Monty would've marked the snot out of #17 he possibly wouldn't have gotten the ball or wouldn't have been able to cleanly pass to #10.
4: if Monty would've marked #10, #17 would've had to beat Bonucci to either pass or shoot. If #17 wanted to pass to #10, Monto would've been there to prevent.

So, yes, I do believe that Montolivo should've marked either one of the two players he was close with, preferably even #10 since that was his guy the whole time. In the absolute, absolute worst case scenario where #17 or #25 would've scored, that would be on Musacchio and Bonucci, since those 2 are responsible for marking their opposing strikes. As a DLP, it's part of your responsibility to make life hell for a #10.


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Originally Posted by vidarth View Post
I was all for dividing the dressing room and cleaning out the fodder. It was bringing us results after all.

One of Milans biggest fuckups was making Monto the captain after 1 year. He had no right to have that sort of influence in the dressing room after 1 season. We had a long tradition of rewarding the longest serving player with the captaincy (ambrosini over gattuso etc)...Montolivos captaincy was bound to cause disharmony in many ways.
Agreed; was a really weird decision. Wondered why they stopped with seniority.

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Originally Posted by dude View Post
Great thread. I rate 5/5 's
Now please do an analysis of Montella's terrible line-up choices, subs and tactics please. I believe Montella was the one primarily at fault for us almost losing the 3 points vs Cagliari.
Might do that later in the season if he keeps sticking to this weird ass 4-3-3 tactic. Doesn't make much sense for me. Probably am not the only one thinking that.

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Originally Posted by ibelongtomilan View Post


Tywin: " Any man who must say ‘I am the king’ is no true king "

Ragnar " Tywin who?? "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WdTtvsMBL_Q

And Katheryn Winnick is the most beautiful woman on earth
After GoT is over, that's next on the list.
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Old 29-08-2017, 16:23   #54
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We tried out so many guys in their 20s dude to build that team. Most failed. Balotelli, El Shaarawy, Niang, van Ginkel, Destro, Poli, Rami, Taarabt..

Bonaventura was the only one who lasted.
IMO it also had to do with the decline in managerial stability. Berlusconi doing weirder and weirder shit, less and less proper funds and purchases, few different trainers with all kind of crazy ideas.
I still don't understand why anybody in their right mind puts Klaas Jan Huntelaar on the right flank. Looking at you, Leonardo.

Then Allegri came and he had few decent players, all carried by a select few (Silva, Zlatan, Bommel). Allegri + those players were just a bandaid on a broken leg, waiting to snap. Which happened once the best players left; all in 1 season.
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Old 29-08-2017, 16:35   #55
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IMO it also had to do with the decline in managerial stability. Berlusconi doing weirder and weirder shit, less and less proper funds and purchases, few different trainers with all kind of crazy ideas.
I still don't understand why anybody in their right mind puts Klaas Jan Huntelaar on the right flank. Looking at you, Leonardo.

Then Allegri came and he had few decent players, all carried by a select few (Silva, Zlatan, Bommel). Allegri + those players were just a bandaid on a broken leg, waiting to snap. Which happened once the best players left; all in 1 season.
Yes.. We had the right intent regarding youth and even made the right signings. But we made really poor signings for the other spots and brought on experienced players who added virtually nothing to the squad. Mostly because we didn't have any money. And obviously coaches of the calibre of Seedorf, Pippo, Miha and Brocchi could do little.


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Old 29-08-2017, 16:47   #56
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Montolivo defensive analysis - sample excerpts from jammin's in-depth essay
(available by PM order for just $5.99, you can also receive any further updates for an extra $0.99)
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...which is why I think he did well before the goal, when the whole team was defending on the front foot, and Monto was pressing high...

...he was bad after the goal, when the team dropped back, and he had to defend right in front of our box... played a very desperate style of defense, throwing his body at shots...

... He was better after Biglia came on... he was pressing further forward... lack of stamina...
IF YOU WANT TO READ THE REST OF MY ANALYSIS, PM ME MONEY FAGS


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Old 29-08-2017, 16:58   #57
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What are money fags?


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Old 29-08-2017, 17:03   #58
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One of the 2000+ in depth analysed images in my in depth essay given away for FREE



IF YOU WANT TO READ THE FULL 10 MS WORD PAGE ANALYSIS, PM ME $5.99+


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Old 29-08-2017, 17:23   #59
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Wowwwwwww...it's a very very very very very long post with many many many many many many images.
I didn't read at all just looked at the pictures and got very dizzy after that 😁 .. Sorry ... It was a good post but you dont need to open new thread for this just post it in Milan - Cagliari.


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Old 29-08-2017, 17:33   #60
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Excellent work Gator.

And Jameme
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