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Wild 20-09-2011 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Congo Powers (Post 1107262)
i get ur point...

but 'your' dna is the same as mine..genetically..as humans :)
and as humans we are all capable of racism...across the board, unfortunately. no exceptions.

I meant it as a metaphor more than actual DNA.
Racism isnt part of human nature like killing , stealing or other sins , its adopted/learned/passed by.
If you raise kids that being gay is normal then they live by that rule but you can tell them everyday that killing is a sin & they might end up killing someone.
See the difference ?
We are raised that people are brothers & it became a part of our culture.

MilanMB 20-09-2011 23:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senatore_M84 (Post 1107271)
sorry, "involuntary manslaughter" (in the US, anyway...) I still go to jail, in all likelihood. Just less time..... Kind of line a 2 week ban than a 3 month ;)


Please get tough on me. I'm scurred, I'd just like to point out, I didn't aim a single personal attack, just presenting an alternative POV. But i'll wait for the insults, since i'm obviously guilty of wrong here :)

You wont necessrarily get convicted. There are many factors involved.

The only wrong you've done here is being a PC moaning snitch. im not getting tough on you, pretty boy, just telling you how it is.

Senatore_M84 20-09-2011 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild (Post 1107273)
I meant it as a metaphor more than actual DNA.
Racism isnt part of human nature like killing , stealing or other sins , its adopted/learned/passed by.
If you raise kids that being gay is normal then they live by that rule but you can tell them everyday that killing is a sin & they might end up killing someone.
See the difference ?
We are raised that people are brothers & it became a part of our culture.

Interesting perspective. I like it. I'm not sure I necessarily agree with it. I think humans are inherently selfish and only after their own interests. Take it back to caveman days, kill something to survive, protect yourself own first (be it just you or your immediate family or your tribe).

Most of these sins are born out of fear, a natural human emotion/instinct which is impossible to rid without education.... be it prehistoric fear of a different tribe/person stealing your food, or fear of another religion/race.


Quote:

Originally Posted by MilanMB (Post 1107274)
You wont necessrarily get convicted. There are many factors involved.

The only wrong you've done here is being a PC moaning snitch. im not getting tough on you, pretty boy, just telling you how it is.

Hmm, I can only speak for american law. If I ran a person over (accident or not) I would be convicted. The only acception is like if they jump infront of me, but that's different from my example. Was sage provoked to make a statement? Anyway, my sole point was a racist comment doesn't mean he's guilty of being a bigot... only that he made a comment which was inappropriate

If i had my way, every person who flinged a racist or homophobic insult would be banned. Don't care if it stops the traffic to the site, it has no place. End of. That's my point of view. It's ignorant to do it, and if it's punished, INTELLIGENT people who are capable of not saying those comments (and who are ironically are majority of people banned.... sage would fall into that, so would dru for the record) wouldn't do it because they'd know the repercussions. If you know 'it was unacceptable to say ___' you wouldn't.

I don't really find it funny or necessary. That's my point of view. You're welcome to disagree.

The problem is, certain things offend certain people. You may not think it's a problem he called gargano a monkey. I know for a fact you'd have a problem with a certain nameless poster calling you ahmenijad and terrorist like I got called. So how is that different? Why tolerate ANY of it? Don't.

Mods if you wanna end this constant bickering/complaining over bands, just become stricter and ban ALL inappropriate comments with racist/sexist or homophobic connotations. End of story. People will stop using them.

KujaIX 20-09-2011 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild (Post 1107273)
I meant it as a metaphor more than actual DNA.
Racism isnt part of human nature like killing , stealing or other sins , its adopted/learned/passed by.
If you raise kids that being gay is normal then they live by that rule but you can tell them everyday that killing is a sin & they might end up killing someone.
See the difference ?
We are raised that people are brothers & it became a part of our culture.

I don't get your gay and killing thing. :) Please elaborate...

And Milano84, it's just stupid.

You cannot call anybody a monkey. If someone actually made himself look like a monkey, okay, let's say a Scottish person, would we be able to call him a monkey? Or would it be racist?

It's not a racist comment without racial intentions.

You don't go around calling old white women Nigg*** do you? No. But some people may say it about black women. It's different.

He called Gargano a monkey because, shock horror, he actually looks like a monkey to Sage... So we shouldn't be able to liken the looks of some people to an animal because a whole other race was slandered by being compared to it?

If I call Wild a Limey or a Frog or something, is that racist? Or does it lose its intention completely when I'm not speaking about an English or French person?

Yes, it's not racist.

Just because Black people were called monkeys, it doesn't make it racist to call ANY OTHER PERSON IN THE WORLD a monkey. If I called some alien a monkey, would that be racism because Africans were called it? NOPE.

Stop being ridiculous.

Likening it to murder is wrong.

What you're saying is like this:

If I planted a bomb at Buckingham palace gates to kill tourists and accidently killed the queen, then it'd be worse than just killing tourists because I accidently went over the line.

But that's wrong.

What Sage did is like kick a pebble along the pathway, then leave it, and later that night an old woman slips over on the pebble and dies.

That's more like it. He said it in complete innocence and if we're suddently condemning the word Monkey to be a racial slur then you're just as bad as anybody else creating offensive terms. If a Black person is called a monkey, it's offensive. If you say "Oh, Barry over there(Chinese guy) looks like a monkey" then it's not fucking racist. You're merely commenting that he, SINGULAR, looks like a monkey. Sage didn't criticise the whole Hispanic race, not the whole Afrocentric race. NOTHING. He said that one person looked like a monkey to him.

Fucking ridiculous if this is upheld.

Corzioli 20-09-2011 23:08

It still beats me how calling Gargano a monkey was racist. I'm sure it was some sort of cultural jibe...in certain parts of India, if not all of there, monkeys are kind of enmeshed with the Hindi culture, they actually live in those towns and interact with the populace. They are seen as mischievous and very funny, and sacred as well. I'm not aware that calling someone a monkey is a racist, derogatory symbol in Arab and South East Asian cultures.....it is foreign to them.

There's NO WAY Sage meant a racist remark, absolutely no way. He must've meant the dude was really annoying that day, period.

Kalac#16 20-09-2011 23:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild (Post 1107273)
If you raise kids that being gay is normal then they live by that rule but you can tell them everyday that killing is a sin & they might end up killing someone.
See the difference ?

Couldn't you have used a different example instead of gay? :fp:

I know how this thread is going

KujaIX 20-09-2011 23:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kalac#16 (Post 1107278)
Couldn't you have used a different example instead of gay? :fp:

I know how this thread is going

I don't care. The only problem is how he kind of implied that it wasn't normal with his wording, but I'm sure that was a mistake.

So I don't have issues.

Ashish 20-09-2011 23:18

I want another ban for banning sage

Ban them fucing rats fucking mods even the activists and who voice against mods and those who stand here and do nothing, what are we germany in ww2?

I give my support to sage because i am thinking of buying an old car and i am not going to pay for the gasoline

Save sage and why is fredrick not banned?

Wild 20-09-2011 23:20

Sage is Arab & Fred is not , mods are racists if you ask me.

KujaIX 20-09-2011 23:21

Because it's more racist to call a Uruguayan a monkey once than call a Welshman a monkey 1000 times.

Dottore Joey 20-09-2011 23:22

Ban Old Lover.

Corzioli 20-09-2011 23:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashish (Post 1107283)
I give my support to sage because i am thinking of buying an old car and i am not going to pay for the gasoline

It's not right to rofl this hard...

Gosh, Ashish!!! :lol:

MilanMB 21-09-2011 00:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senatore_M84 (Post 1107275)
Hmm, I can only speak for american law. If I ran a person over (accident or not) I would be convicted. The only acception is like if they jump infront of me, but that's different from my example. Was sage provoked to make a statement? Anyway, my sole point was a racist comment doesn't mean he's guilty of being a bigot... only that he made a comment which was inappropriate

If i had my way, every person who flinged a racist or homophobic insult would be banned. Don't care if it stops the traffic to the site, it has no place. End of. That's my point of view. It's ignorant to do it, and if it's punished, INTELLIGENT people who are capable of not saying those comments (and who are ironically are majority of people banned.... sage would fall into that, so would dru for the record) wouldn't do it because they'd know the repercussions. If you know 'it was unacceptable to say ___' you wouldn't.

I don't really find it funny or necessary. That's my point of view. You're welcome to disagree.

The problem is, certain things offend certain people. You may not think it's a problem he called gargano a monkey. I know for a fact you'd have a problem with a certain nameless poster calling you ahmenijad and terrorist like I got called. So how is that different? Why tolerate ANY of it? Don't.

Mods if you wanna end this constant bickering/complaining over bands, just become stricter and ban ALL inappropriate comments with racist/sexist or homophobic connotations. End of story. People will stop using them.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

First of, what's "racist" is different in different cultures. I don't know how things work in US, but you should try to learn a thing or two from the outside world.

There's NOTHING racist in calling a black person a monkey. Eto'o looks like a monkey, and I don't give a fuck if I get banned or PC people like you bitch out, for me saying that. Also Bale looks like a monkey.

But there's some stigma attached to it, I won't deny that. Why, you may ask?

Well, because of people like you. If someone, like Sage, calls a black person a monkey without having ANY kind of racism in mind. You and the likes of you stand up and shout RAAAAACIST!!!! You're the one's who remind everyone that black people may or may not look like monkey's.

-------------
Sage has been dealt with very unfairly, because being called "a racist" is a very hard and ugly accusation.

Now David, were are we at now when it comes to him?

You just said that he's banned because of this:
Quote:

Monkey word has been used for years against black people as a derogatory term so its truly banable even if he didnt mean that way(no more monkeys in the zoo or the text books please)
Your honour, as my main witness, I bring to the stand, Corzioli. He just told us all that he really don't think that Sage meant anything racist.


So why should we live in a world that's ruled by people (M84 for example) who associate black people with monkeys? That's just wrong.

There's no shame in changing this decision, especially not when it's so wrong. This is not only for sage, I'm sick and tired of people running around and calling everyone racist. That's not fair to those who are real victims of racism.

Senatore_M84 21-09-2011 00:21

Before anyone even goes on... don't bother quoting a word of my post if you don't plan to actually read it all and digest it....

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilanMB (Post 1107305)
You really don't know what you're talking about.

Unnecessary person insult, but moving on

Quote:

First of, what's "racist" is different in different cultures. I don't know how things work in US, but you should try to learn a thing or two from the outside world.
Exactly, which is why you should RESPECT other cultures? I mean are you really using this? Because it's offensive in one and not the other, we should side with nonoffensive one?

Do you not see hypocracy of this? Just because some people don't find it offensive doesn't mean it's ok.

Are you ok with me calling you a terrorist? ahemnijad? etc.? Cause personally I'm NOT ok with being called those things (and have been on this forum). Now how is that any different? You might not care, i do.


Quote:

There's NOTHING racist in calling a black person a monkey. Eto'o looks like a monkey, and I don't give a fuck if I get banned or PC people like you bitch out, for me saying that. Also Bale looks like a monkey.
it's unnecessary. That's the point. Can this forum not exist without calling someone a monkey? Honestly? It's your inalienable right to call someone a monkey? On what grounds. That's just a poor argument.

Quote:

But there's some stigma attached to it, I won't deny that. Why, you may ask?

Well, because of people like you. If someone, like Sage, calls a black person a monkey without having ANY kind of racism in mind. You and the likes of you stand up and shout RAAAAACIST!!!! You're the one's who remind everyone that black people may or may not look like monkey's.
It's not really open to interpretation. I didn't shout anything, all i said was 'really, racism?'. Calm, just saying it was an unnecessary comment? Did i go post in problems thread? report? make a big fuss? NO, all i did was make a comment to sage. Then he insulted me personally, instead of calmly saying i didn't mean to be racist.

I don't give a fuck, you don't seem to get that. But I can live my life w/o making such comments, and i don't think that's a big deal. Just deal with it.

Quote:

-------------
Sage has been dealt with very unfairly, because being called "a racist" is a very hard and ugly accusation.
This CLEARLY shows you didn't read ANY of my posts, infact i know for a fact you read none, cause you'd probably have some response to aheminjad point. But you don't. You just want to repeat a short-sided argument with no consideration for other points.

No one called Sage a racist. I just said it was a racist comment. BIG difference. Racism=permaban. Dumb racist comment... well he got minimum ban, which tells you exactly what mods think. Dumb comment, nothing more.

Quote:

Now David, were are we at now when it comes to him?

You just said that he's banned because of this:


Your honour, as my main witness, I bring to the stand, Corzioli. He just told us all that he really don't think that Sage meant anything racist.
So Corzioli isn't bugged. That's fine. He doesn't represent everyone. I don't find offense to a lot of things others do.

Quote:

So why should we live in a world that's ruled by people (M84 for example) who associate black people with monkeys? That's just wrong.
hah, ok, it's just me. I cried and asked for a ban. EXACTLY :rolleyes:

Again, mr. liberal values. If you actually believed what you are saying then you'd realize NOT everyone thinks something is or isn't racist. So why should it be tolerated. It doesn't big you? FINE. Maybe it bugs other people? Now who should the rules go towards? IS your life WORSE without the useage of monkey? Honestly man.... if he wants to call someone a monkey it doesn't bug me one bit. But it does bother some people, SO it shouldn't be allowed. Isn't that what liberal types believe, everyone should be protected/their values protected?

I could care less about christianity, islam, judiasm, hinduism, any religion. And religious insults don't bother me THE least. They don't. Doesn't mean I think they should be tolerated. If someone called anelka or some muslim player a 'suicide bomer' or 'fucking terrorist' or some sort of slander related to islam and it naturally bothered wild, i'd say ban the fucker too.

And I'm not islamic, nor do i give ANY shit about religion. But he does, and he's a member of the community, and all members RIGHTS deserve protection, and slurs of any kind shouldn't be tolerated.

(PS. hope you it doesn't bug you wild, just used you as an example of an openly religious member, and religion as a topic which really doesn't effect me)

Quote:

There's no shame in changing this decision, especially not when it's so wrong. This is not only for sage, I'm sick and tired of people running around and calling everyone racist. That's not fair to those who are real victims of racism.
Yeah, i got no problem with Sage, nor do i think he's a racist. I do think his comment was a racial slur, and fact i called him out on it, and he didn't care shows you exactly how sensitive to the issue he is..

Bann him, unban him by all means. I simply got a problem with your logic.

I don't think there is any problem with civility and RESPECT towards all cultures. Some see monkey as racist. Some don't. So JUST AVOID IT. Just because you don't think it's racist, doesn't mean EVERYONE doesn't think it's racist.

It's not that hard.

Corzioli 21-09-2011 00:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by MilanMB (Post 1107305)
Your honour, as my main witness, I bring to the stand, Corzioli. He just told us all that he really don't think that Sage meant anything racist.

My.

Haven't really read the whole of your post (comments on that coming), but why did you have to dig up my poorly taken pic?? :D

So pixellated..that was just me doing my Shaft impression. :lol:

Congo Powers 21-09-2011 00:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild (Post 1107273)
I meant it as a metaphor more than actual DNA.
Racism isnt part of human nature like killing , stealing or other sins , its adopted/learned/passed by.
If you raise kids that being gay is normal then they live by that rule but you can tell them everyday that killing is a sin & they might end up killing someone.
See the difference ?
We are raised that people are brothers & it became a part of our culture.

i get ur point, but i dont believe wat you're implying. ie...racism doesnt exist in arab culture. (not to antagonize u...or stir up this already heated debate :D )

Dottore Joey 21-09-2011 00:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senatore_M84 (Post 1107316)
Before anyone even goes on... don't bother quoting a word of my post if you don't plan to actually read it all and digest it....



Unnecessary person insult, but moving on



Exactly, which is why you should RESPECT other cultures? I mean are you really using this? Because it's offensive in one and not the other, we should side with nonoffensive one?

Do you not see hypocracy of this? Just because some people don't find it offensive doesn't mean it's ok.

Are you ok with me calling you a terrorist? ahemnijad? etc.? Cause personally I'm NOT ok with being called those things (and have been on this forum). Now how is that any different? You might not care, i do.




it's unnecessary. That's the point. Can this forum not exist without calling someone a monkey? Honestly? It's your inalienable right to call someone a monkey? On what grounds. That's just a poor argument.



It's not really open to interpretation. I didn't shout anything, all i said was 'really, racism?'. Calm, just saying it was an unnecessary comment? Did i go post in problems thread? report? make a big fuss? NO, all i did was make a comment to sage. Then he insulted me personally, instead of calmly saying i didn't mean to be racist.

I don't give a fuck, you don't seem to get that. But I can live my life w/o making such comments, and i don't think that's a big deal. Just deal with it.



This CLEARLY shows you didn't read ANY of my posts, infact i know for a fact you read none, cause you'd probably have some response to aheminjad point. But you don't. You just want to repeat a short-sided argument with no consideration for other points.

No one called Sage a racist. I just said it was a racist comment. BIG difference. Racism=permaban. Dumb racist comment... well he got minimum ban, which tells you exactly what mods think. Dumb comment, nothing more.



So Corzioli isn't bugged. That's fine. He doesn't represent everyone. I don't find offense to a lot of things others do.



hah, ok, it's just me. I cried and asked for a ban. EXACTLY :rolleyes:

Again, mr. liberal values. If you actually believed what you are saying then you'd realize NOT everyone thinks something is or isn't racist. So why should it be tolerated. It doesn't big you? FINE. Maybe it bugs other people? Now who should the rules go towards? IS your life WORSE without the useage of monkey? Honestly man.... if he wants to call someone a monkey it doesn't bug me one bit. But it does bother some people, SO it shouldn't be allowed. Isn't that what liberal types believe, everyone should be protected/their values protected?

I could care less about christianity, islam, judiasm, hinduism, any religion. And religious insults don't bother me THE least. They don't. Doesn't mean I think they should be tolerated. If someone called anelka or some muslim player a 'suicide bomer' or 'fucking terrorist' or some sort of slander related to islam and it naturally bothered wild, i'd say ban the fucker too.

And I'm not islamic, nor do i give ANY shit about religion. But he does, and he's a member of the community, and all members RIGHTS deserve protection, and slurs of any kind shouldn't be tolerated.

(PS. hope you it doesn't bug you wild, just used you as an example of an openly religious member, and religion as a topic which really doesn't effect me)



Yeah, i got no problem with Sage, nor do i think he's a racist. I do think his comment was a racial slur, and fact i called him out on it, and he didn't care shows you exactly how sensitive to the issue he is..

Bann him, unban him by all means. I simply got a problem with your logic.

I don't think there is any problem with civility and RESPECT towards all cultures. Some see monkey as racist. Some don't. So JUST AVOID IT. Just because you don't think it's racist, doesn't mean EVERYONE doesn't think it's racist.

It's not that hard.

http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lq...39ewo1_500.gif

Wild 21-09-2011 00:46

Sen , I really would like to ask what you think of a person who said the following "that overrated monkey, Kieta, didn't stand a chance ... as did that chimp Alves"

Sod-Lod 21-09-2011 00:49

Side Note: If you want the justice go through, beside the Sage case, then the Admin should Ban every poster who includes (R-E-T-A-R-D & R-A-P-E) in his/her post in regardless the content and the intention of the sentence is been directed to; as mother fact, those words have been forbidden in this Forum, for reasons all members here understood it well.

Senatore_M84 21-09-2011 00:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild (Post 1107331)
Sen , I really would like to ask what you think of a person who said the following "that overrated monkey, Kieta, didn't stand a chance ... as did that chimp Alves"

I don't think it's tolerable either was my point.... I don't used those terms and i don't see a reason for one to use it. Like why is that necessary? If you're gonna bash him, WHY do you need to comment on the monkey thing when we all know what those connotations have ment thru out history and how degrading they are.

Maybe I'm oversensative to the race issue, or maybe it's cause I'm not white and i went to an all-black school when i was a child then an all white one as i got older (aka moving from oakland to suburbs), say what you want but a) certain people have been persecuted for color of their skin or ethnicity, and they are right to be sensative towards it and b) being called every middle eastern ethnic slur under the sun isn't great either.

So people are ignorant. Whatever, it doesn't mean it's OK and i'm infringing on anyone's right by saying so.

I'm not saying what Sage did was by any means a reflection on him as a person, just a dumb comment. I know i make enough of those w/o trying :). So what... learn, move on, don't do it again. If I had my way, every person would be warned first time using a racial slur, banned the second.


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