Official: Oluwafikayomi Oluwadamilola Tomori Thread

Hitchens · Apr 29, 2021

Goodfella said:
Seems to be a confidence player.
A lot of posters have criticized his positioning for a while, but to me it looked like calculated risks. He has recovery pace and he took advantage of it. He's been mostly great while the ball was on the ground.

But what can't be overlooked is his difficulties in dealing with aerial balls, not so much the jumping ability as the part that involves predicting the trajectory of the ball. Also how he seemingly collapsed mentally against Lazio after the shock start, and it just got worse in the 2nd half after the 2-0. It was sad to see to a point where I actually felt sorry for him.

28m looks like way too much for him.

This is way too harsh, and seems like it's based too much off of the Lazio game. I know you've pointed out shortcomings like this before and that you're not a prisoner of the moment poster, but I disagree with the premise that you have to fill out some sort of yatzy board to be considered an essential player to sign and count on. He has been masterful since arriving, and should be kept well clear of any guilt related to the teams general performance this half of the season.

I'd actually claim he's been our best player since he started featuring consistently. I'd easily spend 28m.

Nalim · Apr 29, 2021

Hitchens said:
This is way too harsh, and seems like it's based too much off of the Lazio game. I know you've pointed out shortcomings like this before and that you're not a prisoner of the moment poster, but I disagree with the premise that you have to fill out some sort of yatzy board to be considered an essential player to sign and count on. He has been masterful since arriving, and should be kept well clear of any guilt related to the teams general performance this half of the season.

I'd actually claim he's been our best player since he started featuring consistently. I'd easily spend 28m.

To be counted on as an essential player in a team, that player has to master the essentials of his role. Tomori has positional issues and, as Goodfella mentioned, struggles with aerial balls. These are issues that's been overshadowed by his brilliant attributes such as pace and tackling but are now starting to result in a significant amount of goals conceded. 28m is a lot of money for a player that may have shown promising signs but hasn't elevated the teams defense to a higher level. Had he been of a different nationality and had a different parent club I wouldn't be surprised if his pricetag was cut by 10m.

Master Smurf · Apr 29, 2021

I still wouldnt mind seeing Kalulu (in summer) given another chance at CB, He has all of the gifts Tomori does and similar issues but while his problem was more naivete, he never looked scared.
- So in my mind why spend 28 mill when you have a similar player.

Tomori's last two matches have been very poor but lets see how he reacts

Jivara · Apr 29, 2021

He didn't even look bad vs Lazio.. people just want to point the finger at the easiest target but the reality is that the game approach did not help him at all. We played gung ho and this left him and Kjaer exposed to their two rapid attackers with acres of space ahead of them and for the most part he won his duels but after a certain point it becomes impossible when you are not covered by your teammates and the way defenders are so restricted these days, it's impossible.

Boban1982 · Apr 29, 2021

Jivara said:
He didn't even look bad vs Lazio.. people just want to point the finger at the easiest target but the reality is that the game approach did not help him at all. We played gung ho and this left him and Kjaer exposed to their two rapid attackers with acres of space ahead of them and for the most part he won his duels but after a certain point it becomes impossible when you are not covered by your teammates and the way defenders are so restricted these days, it's impossible.

Tomori was at fault or at the very least should have defended better for two of the goals.

He has great potential I'm just not convinced 28 million in the current climate is a risk worth taking. If we miss out on CL football I wouldn't of thought we will pay that fee anyway.

joyrider · Apr 29, 2021

Boban1982 said:
Tomori was at fault or at the very least should have defended better for two of the goals.

He has great potential I'm just not convinced 28 million in the current climate is a risk worth taking. If we miss out on CL football I wouldn't of thought we will pay that fee anyway.

Each time Tomori has to defend...the midfield have already made an error.

Ronin · Apr 29, 2021

Nalim said:
Chelsea should be in no position to ask for 28m. He hasn?t shown any consistency at any point in his career.
I hope Maldini demands a significant discount. Or simply extends his loan. I doubt any other club would even consider him for 28m, but if one club did then be my guest.

Pretty sure there will be plenty of EPL clubs willing to put up that amount, considering that he's also British. Not sure he wants to play for them though.

yonggoh · Apr 30, 2021

For me he has shown enough to warrant a transfer priority.
Everything else for 28m would be a huge question mark and with this guy we have got 80% consistently good performances so far

Goodfella · Apr 30, 2021

Jivara said:
He didn't even look bad vs Lazio.. people just want to point the finger at the easiest target but the reality is that the game approach did not help him at all. We played gung ho and this left him and Kjaer exposed to their two rapid attackers with acres of space ahead of them and for the most part he won his duels but after a certain point it becomes impossible when you are not covered by your teammates and the way defenders are so restricted these days, it's impossible.

True, our CBs have been handed a tough task due to our approach. The rest of the team and Pioli have failed to protect them lately, which is why I have barely even mentioned Tomori's name in the past weeks while discussing the team's defensive issues in the commode and match-threads.
But it's also true that he has been poor individually lately.
He's been directly at fault for a lot of those "shitty goals" we've been conceding.

Our dangerously high line and high press is the reason why he became a starter in the first place. We needed a fast and aggressive CB like him for the breaks. And he has succeeded in that part of his mission because we've stopped conceding goals like the ones Inter did on us.
Instead we're now conceding "shitty goals" during defensive phases that are more about organization and anticipation than recovery speed and aggression.
Kjaer-Tomori haven't developed a partnership as good as Kjaer-Gabbia or Kjaer-Romagnoli in 2020.

Goodfella · Apr 30, 2021

Hitchens said:
This is way too harsh, and seems like it's based too much off of the Lazio game. I know you've pointed out shortcomings like this before and that you're not a prisoner of the moment poster, but I disagree with the premise that you have to fill out some sort of yatzy board to be considered an essential player to sign and count on. He has been masterful since arriving, and should be kept well clear of any guilt related to the teams general performance this half of the season.

I'd actually claim he's been our best player since he started featuring consistently. I'd easily spend 28m.

If I was only looking at the Lazio game then I wouldn't even mention the aerial balls part because it was not an issue in that game.
I was speculating that he might be a confidence player, because he's been making uncharacteristic mistakes ever since Sassuolo's shock equalizer. Normally he's near impossible to get past while the ball is on the ground, but he got dribbled past more than any other player on the pitch that night against Lazio. I looked up the stats for confirmation and it turns out he got dribbled past more times than in his first 9 Milan games combined. It was not the confident and determined Tomori that we've grown accustomed to seeing. He even looked shaken from the facial expression. Lets see how he recovers from this traumatic night.

I'd like to keep him too. He's young, he could fix or reduce the flaws in his game, and I want continuity in the defense. But 28m is a lot of money, for a player which at this point has serious flaws in his games, especially if you consider the financial realities of a club that was struggling even before this pandemic, while we have other squad departments that are screaming for investments.

Nestafan · Apr 30, 2021

Goodfella said:
True, our CBs have been handed a tough task due to our approach. The rest of the team and Pioli have failed to protect them lately, which is why I have barely even mentioned Tomori's name in the past weeks while discussing the team's defensive issues in the commode and match-threads.
But it's also true that he has been poor individually lately.
He's been directly at fault for a lot of those "shitty goals" we've been conceding.

Our dangerously high line and high press is the reason why he became a starter in the first place. We needed a fast and aggressive CB like him for the breaks. And he has succeeded in that part of his mission because we've stopped conceding goals like the ones Inter did on us.
Instead we're now conceding "shitty goals" during defensive phases that are more about organization and anticipation than recovery speed and aggression.
Kjaer-Tomori haven't developed a partnership as good as Kjaer-Gabbia or Kjaer-Romagnoli in 2020.

In all honesty, Gabbia-Kjaer has been the strongest centre back pair all season. We were leaking very little before Gabbia's unfortunate injury.

As I said in the match thread, not writing Tomori off, but its three games in a row where he has been directly responsible for goals we conceded.

Savo · May 4, 2021

Nestafan said:
In all honesty, Gabbia-Kjaer has been the strongest centre back pair all season. We were leaking very little before Gabbia's unfortunate injury.

As I said in the match thread, not writing Tomori off, but its three games in a row where he has been directly responsible for goals we conceded.

Gabbia is written off by modern day fanboys because he doesn't make ESPN highlight last gasp challenges (likely b/c he's not out of position enough to have to...)

Also in renspose t other posts here, so funny that now everybody is seeing that maybe it's not all on the individual defenders and rather with how Pioli sets up (high line). Hate to say told you so, but definitely told ppl so. This high line high press defense leaves the CB's isolated all the time especially when Theo and/or Kessie goes forward too much, the LCB in particular gets exposed and we pay for it. Once we weren't flying high Pioli should have seen this and changed formation or defending/team shape to provide more defensive support.

tonyb · May 4, 2021

Based on what he's shown, no way does the guy deserve to be a starting CB. Granted, his pace is an amazing quality but time and time again he is making unforced errors and proving his reading of the game to be atrocious. In a back 3 however, I think he could truly shine. Just clean up anything that gets Kjaer or Roma into trouble.

sheva · May 4, 2021

tonyb said:
Based on what he's shown, no way does the guy deserve to be a starting CB. Granted, his pace is an amazing quality but time and time again he is making unforced errors and proving his reading of the game to be atrocious. In a back 3 however, I think he could truly shine. Just clean up anything that gets Kjaer or Roma into trouble.

Roma is as fast as a turtle and Kjaer, despite great decision making usually, can also be at fault. I rather have a fast CB who doesn't yet read the game 100% and can make up for it with fast interceptions, than the most brilliant mind in football but can't cover his mark properly.

Maldini himself said that he looks for athleticism and innate abilities when scouting a defender, since tactics and awareness can be taught.

A defender is easy enough for me to read, but while before we used to ask for a player could fit well in the department, now I would go and get a player who is strong in one-on-one, then we can teach him how to fit in the back four. The hard thing to teach is strength in one-on-one situations and concentration.

Forza AC Milan · May 4, 2021

tonyb said:
Based on what he's shown, no way does the guy deserve to be a starting CB. Granted, his pace is an amazing quality but time and time again he is making unforced errors and proving his reading of the game to be atrocious. In a back 3 however, I think he could truly shine. Just clean up anything that gets Kjaer or Roma into trouble.

He would be much better in a back 3 with Kjaer and Roma

Goodfella · May 5, 2021

Forza AC Milan said:
He would be much better in a back 3 with Kjaer and Roma

If a back 3 isn't versatile, cohesive and athletic then it's crippling you.

What you have there is at least one injury-prone player, which will force a lot of rotation.
An Italian, a Dane and an Englishman who is new to Serie A and yet to learn the language.
Two players that are almost completely devoid of athleticism.
And not much versatility or goalscoring ability in that trio.

For comparison, Juve had a deep-lying playmaker in Bonucci, a fullback and CB in Chiellini and an athletic player in Barzagli.
Three Italians, and NT mates, that were pretty much injury-free in Conte's first season, which gave them thousands of playing minutes to perfect their partnership.
Those three and Caceres scored more non-PK goals than all our current midfielders combined.

Conte didn't hit the same jackpot at Inter, but he seems to have found a reliable trio at last, in Skriniar-deVrij-Bastoni who have also stayed almost completely injury-free this season.

Gasperini demands even more versatility and athleticism from his CBs. That's why they cancelled Kjaer's loan after a few months.

tonyb · May 5, 2021

Goodfella said:
If a back 3 isn't versatile, cohesive and athletic then it's crippling you.

What you have there is at least one injury-prone player, which will force a lot of rotation.
An Italian, a Dane and an Englishman who is new to Serie A and yet to learn the language.
Two players that are almost completely devoid of athleticism.
And not much versatility or goalscoring ability in that trio.

For comparison, Juve had a deep-lying playmaker in Bonucci, a fullback and CB in Chiellini and an athletic player in Barzagli.
Three Italians, and NT mates, that were pretty much injury-free in Conte's first season, which gave them thousands of playing minutes to perfect their partnership.
Those three and Caceres scored more non-PK goals than all our current midfielders combined.

Conte didn't hit the same jackpot at Inter, but he seems to have found a reliable trio at last, in Skriniar-deVrij-Bastoni who have also stayed almost completely injury-free this season.

Gasperini demands even more versatility and athleticism from his CBs. That's why they cancelled Kjaer's loan after a few months.

Your logic doesn't make sense. So the fact Tomori is English doesn't stop him in a back 4 but in a back 3 it's a problem? :fp:

And surely in a back 3, we can take reduce the impact of the others weaknesses. Kjaer's lack of pace would be less exposed. Tomori's poor reading of the game would be less visible.

And when it comes to goalscoring - it's a bonus if a CB is getting a good return on goals. And to be honest, without looking at the stats I think Romagnoli has an okay record and Kjaer is quite a threat and set pieces.

tonyb · May 5, 2021

sheva said:
Roma is as fast as a turtle and Kjaer, despite great decision making usually, can also be at fault. I rather have a fast CB who doesn't yet read the game 100% and can make up for it with fast interceptions, than the most brilliant mind in football but can't cover his mark properly.

Maldini himself said that he looks for athleticism and innate abilities when scouting a defender, since tactics and awareness can be taught.

You ignore my point. Would you rather a guy that makes few mistakes or a guy who makes some amazing recoveries, but also has a mistake in him each game that leads to a goal. A goal that is totally avoidable. The "mistakes" you say Kjaer and Romagnoli make are ones a lot of defenders are prone to. The ones I'm seeing from Tomori are ones I wouldn't make. It's shocking how slow his brain is at times. He can see the ball coming in - he stops and just stretches. Go to the ball!

Goodfella · May 5, 2021

tonyb said:
Your logic doesn't make sense. So the fact Tomori is English doesn't stop him in a back 4 but in a back 3 it's a problem?
And surely in a back 3, we can take reduce the impact of the others weaknesses. Kjaer's lack of pace would be less exposed. Tomori's poor reading of the game would be less visible.

And when it comes to goalscoring - it's a bonus if a CB is getting a good return on goals. And to be honest, without looking at the stats I think Romagnoli has an okay record and Kjaer is quite a threat and set pieces.

The thing about a back 3 system is that you're not supposed to get the impression that there's one too many CBs on the pitch, which can easily happen as Allegri's and Montella's failed attempts at Milan showed, or when Conte/Inter were starting Godin and at times even Skriniar.
Top teams, that deploy a back 3 properly, avoid it by picking versatile, dependable, compatible defenders that allow a strong partnership to be built.

Tomori being English doesn't stop him in any formation, that would be your illogical conclusion.
Communication and good understanding between the defenders is important regardless of system. But, going by my observations, teams that deploy back 3s(more like back 5) tend to have a harder time dealing with absentees and rotations at the back than teams that use regular back 4s. It makes sense when you think about. Not only is it an unusual defensive system for most CBs - more individuals also means more influence in the team. If the great balance and understanding between the back 5 is missing then you don't have the same team at all.
If there isn't a balance and understanding to begin with, then you're going to get Montella's Milan's 3-4-3.

Savo · May 5, 2021

Let me blow this whole discussion up and just give a hot take..

HOT TAKE:
Modern defenders all suck and it's not that important to have great defenders these days. A few rise above the rest but even the tops of modern defenders don't have the complete packages the defenders of recent past did, plus with how sissified the current players and refs are they call everything so you can't even be physical or try to play proper defense or you risk getting a card... So, in the end, who cares?? as long as they're decent enough we'll be fine (and this is coming from me who loves defense and is incredibly defensive minded, and digs the occasional catenaccio). IMO, present day focus on controlling the mid and we'll be fine.

Nalim · May 5, 2021

Savo said:
Let me blow this whole discussion up and just give a hot take..

HOT TAKE:
Modern defenders all suck and it's not that important to have great defenders these days. A few rise above the rest but even the tops of modern defenders don't have the complete packages the defenders of recent past did, plus with how sissified the current players and refs are they call everything so you can't even be physical or try to play proper defense or you risk getting a card... So, in the end, who cares?? as long as they're decent enough we'll be fine (and this is coming from me who loves defense and is incredibly defensive minded, and digs the occasional catenaccio). IMO, present day focus on controlling the mid and we'll be fine.

This is simply not true. Have you seen what happened to Liverpool when they lost their starting CB?s? It has influenced every aspect of their team. If you have reliable players at the back the attackers can be allowed to invest less in the defensive phases and focus on attacking. Man City are a much more complete team ever since they signed Ruben Dias. I agree that world class CB?s are few and far between but they are as relevant now as ever.

Savo · May 5, 2021

Nalim said:
This is simply not true. Have you seen what happened to Liverpool when they lost their starting CB?s? It has influenced every aspect of their team. If you have reliable players at the back the attackers can be allowed to invest less in the defensive phases and focus on attacking. Man City are a much more complete team ever since they signed Ruben Dias. I agree that world class CB?s are few and far between but they are as relevant now as ever.

You agree with me, you just don't know it yet.

Key word... reliable. They don't need to be top class because none are. But if you have a solid, consistent defender, or to use your word "reliable" that's enough which was pretty much my point. I'm not saying you can run awful players, if you thought that, then you misunderstand me, I just mean that true defending is dead so just get some solid players (which we already have) and then fix the rest of the team.

For example, I saw awful defenses in these last several rounds of the champion's league yet these are the best teams in the world.... kind of says something doesn't it...

Nalim · May 6, 2021

Savo said:
You agree with me, you just don't know it yet.

Key word... reliable. They don't need to be top class because none are. But if you have a solid, consistent defender, or to use your word "reliable" that's enough which was pretty much my point. I'm not saying you can run awful players, if you thought that, then you misunderstand me, I just mean that true defending is dead so just get some solid players (which we already have) and then fix the rest of the team.

For example, I saw awful defenses in these last several rounds of the champion's league yet these are the best teams in the world.... kind of says something doesn't it...

I don?t agree with you. When I say reliable I mean as in every aspect of the game. I don?t want defenders who are good one on one but fall on their asses every time they have to deal with a lofted cross.

There most certainly are top class defenders they?re just not Italian. Virgil Van Dijk elevated his Liverpool side from being a top 4 contender in England to being the best team in the world he excels in everything you?d demand from a defender.

I know Milan can?t buy a talent like VVD as they are expensive and a rarity but if Milan are to splash 28m on a defender I?d prefer it to be someone more well-rounded than Tomori.

Australiano1980 · May 8, 2021

Savo said:
You agree with me, you just don't know it yet.

This is pure Jedi stuff... Respects!!!

Goodfella · May 11, 2021

Goodfella said:
Lets see how he recovers from this traumatic night.

Great response. He hasn't been flawless defensively, but he has bounced back, rather than sinking further after a few setbacks. I love how eager he is to score on set-pieces. He has come close a few times. The way he celebrated an obvious offside goal a few weeks ago stood out for me. It was a bit comical, but also said something about the amazing drive and determination he possesses.
28m is still a lot, but it won't look as large with CL revenue. Also, we're less likely to lose Donna and Hakan for free.

yonggoh · May 11, 2021

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uCWgNSxarGA

He was wonderful vs juventus. I could watch this clip all day... very nesta like in movement

yonggoh · May 12, 2021

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sempre...rie-a-record-with-goal-vs-juventus-report/amp

Chelsea loanee Tomori breaks Cristiano Ronaldo’s Serie A record with goal vs. Juventus – report

The 23-year-old reached a height of 263cm, surpassing the previous record of Cristiano Ronaldo (against Sampdoria last season), who hit 254cm. It certainly appears to have gone under the radar.

nanook · May 12, 2021

replay - https://i.imgur.com/ogocS0M.gifv

Savo · May 12, 2021

Goodfella said:
He hasn't been flawless defensively, but he has bounced back, rather than sinking further after a few setbacks. I love how eager he is to score on set-pieces. He has come close a few times. The way he celebrated an obvious offside goal a few weeks ago stood out for me. It was a bit comical, but also said something about the amazing drive and determination he possesses.
28m is still a lot, but it won't look as large with CL revenue. Also, we're less likely to lose Donna and Hakan for free.

Agreed with your post and the bolded part is the most important. Tomori has been strong since joining but has been far from the stellar performer the initial fanboys thought he was. He is partially responsible for us going out to Man U (awful aerial marking on Diallo), he is fully responsible for the Sassuolo loss, and he got worked over and over v. Lazio with Corre (he struggles against the smart/tricky strikers so far) so he's already in a short time cost us many vital points. BUUUT, he has not caved in or cowered in fear, he keeps learning and keeps going forward and for that, I'm a fan. I think we should keep our current CB core and add Tomori to it. He pairs well with both Kjaer and Romagnoli and to be honest I'm sure him+Gabbia probably would make an excellent duo and may be the future Milan pairing as Gabbia hasn't played a single bad game for us yet so this is promising and I hope Fikayo continues on this path. Yes 28m is a lot for sure and I wish it was closer to 20 but if we get CL, it's probably worth it.

sheva · May 12, 2021

yonggoh said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/sempre...rie-a-record-with-goal-vs-juventus-report/amp

Chelsea loanee Tomori breaks Cristiano Ronaldo?s Serie A record with goal vs. Juventus ? report

The 23-year-old reached a height of 263cm, surpassing the previous record of Cristiano Ronaldo (against Sampdoria last season), who hit 254cm. It certainly appears to have gone under the radar.

we're all about breaking records this year

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