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View Poll Results: How many goals will Pato score for Milan in 2012-2013?
<=5 65 27.31%
6-10 44 18.49%
11-15 40 16.81%
16-20 34 14.29%
21-25 18 7.56%
26-30 3 1.26%
>30 34 14.29%
Voters: 238. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 23-11-2012, 01:47   #20001
crazy4milan
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How do you know that Pato is entitled or immature? Do you have insider contacts at Milanello? Have you met him in real life? The impression we get from interviews or newspaper gossip can be really misleading.
You don't think someone that demands playing time with his agent via the press after comming from an in and out series of injuries is entitled? You don't think someone that hasn't been putting real effort on the pitch and is demanding playing time is entitled? You don't think someone that runs twice a game and grabs his thigh as if he was injured and goes out and demands playing time is entitled? You don't think someone that looks obviously unfit demaning moer playing time is entitled?

Seriously tell me what has Pato done this season to demand more playing time? He scored twice in two games where all he did was walk for most of the time. In fact I'm amazed Allegri kept him all game vs Málaga, when he should've subbed him out as first sub. All other games he's been there...meh. And I'm not gonna talk about the pk miss vs Fiorentina, because that is the closest I believe he's done in taking responsability.


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And by the way, not every player has to be a leader. It's actually a rare characteristic, I will be completely content with Pato just doing his own duties well.
There's ways to show leadership without being a leader...one being doing all your own duties well and putting effort in the pitch. Honestly speaking, do you think Pato has done it, has he really shown it?

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Originally Posted by forward View Post
For me personally, I agree that SES tries to contribute more on the field, but Pato has the edge when it comes to natural talent. I also think this is a question of characteristics.
Why do you think Pato has the edge on natural talent? And why is that important anyway? Why must it come as an important trait to Pato's game? Why is it a reason to start him?

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Originally Posted by forward View Post
Tracking back effectively is not just a question of stamina and hard work. SES is good at reading the game, stealing balls from behind, making interceptions, winning balls in physical play. Pato isn't good at all at any of that.
True. But does Pato even put pressure on top? Is he constantly moving ala Inzaghi? Is he reading well his other teamates and the opponents defense? There were at least 3 plays yesterday, where he stood there blantantly in offside position, not at the edge, but at least 1 meter in offside position, for several seconds...had he been at the edge of the offside position, the ball would've gone to his feet, instead we had to make a sideway pass and let Anderlecht built up in the back. Chance destroyed.

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Originally Posted by forward View Post
And CFs shouldn't track back anyway, because they need to stay up front and make runs off defenders.
I understand he's bad at it. He's still not doing his best job as a CF eitherway. But eitherway this statement is false. CFs can track back, and should if they can, even if they're not good defenders, just to put pressure, you're thinking tracking back as crossing the midfield line and even going to the edge of our box, tracking back can be done in the opposing side's area.

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Also, although SES dribbles rarely, he is very effective playing on the wing. Because he links up with his partners well, moves well, makes the runs.
Again this is not Pato's games.

Pato on the other hand is absolutely deadly thanks to his finishing in the box, pace, and running off defenders during counter attacks. He is a classical CF.
Again he's clinical, and I do love his heading technique, but he's not moving, he's not putting pressure on defenders, he hasn't run in some time, he's walking around in some bad positions, not even aware of where he is and he's not reading anyone's game.

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SES has really become our biggest attacking threat this season because he scores and also creates a lot of his chances. As for Pato, he is dependent on his teammates a lot. A CF needs to get assists, he needs accurate long balls to make runs and burn the defense on counter attacks. Is our team supplying any of that? Not really. But he still scores because of his finishing abilities.
No one can deny he's dependent on his teamates, and that we've been poor creating. Yet, the problem goes beyond that, when he's also not really making himself available, nor is he putting effort.

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To sum up - Pato and SES are not competing for squad roles, nor are the competing for the biggest star of the team status. Both have absolutely different characteristics and both are amazing at what they do.
I don't think anyone is saying they're competing for squad roles or that they have the same characteristics.

What's being discussed is (and it's pretty clear, and that you prefered to ignore) that El Shaarawy is taking responsability, responsability that maybe he didn't even had to take considering he's just 20 and in his 2nd season at Milan. That he's doing all of his job at the best possible way and that's he's showing a lot of improvement in his game.

Which Pato ain't doing, eventhough he's been at Milan for 5 years, and is the best paid player alongside Mexes and Robinho. Isn't it fair to ask for more? To believe that he's capable of delivering better performances?

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So, should we get rid of a CF who scores goals regularly even when he is not in form for a crappy discounted price that we will likely get?
I dunno man. Pazzini is doing the same, for less money, and putting more effort on the pitch. Undoubtly Pato has more potential than Pazzini and should he ever achieve it, he's WC calibre, the thing is...what if he doesn't? What if we wait till he's 26 for him to explode because of what we saw of him as potential in 2007?


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Old 23-11-2012, 01:48   #20002
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fiero we already have m84 who says the same thing, so I already know what you're going to say before you make the post.

http://www.theacmilanblog.com/pato-v...-better-season

I'd expect some patience from a guy who wrote this article and is questioning when was the last time pato showed something since 2008
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Old 23-11-2012, 01:51   #20003
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c4m ripping forward apart

forward we neeeeeed a comeback.

i've hit neutral now.


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GOOOOOOOOL DEEEEL MILAAAAAAAN. HA ILLUMINATO SAN SIRO IL NUMERO UNDICI...GIAMPAOLO....PAZZINIIII....GIAMPAOLO....P AZZINI....GIAMPAOLO PAZZINI!!
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Old 23-11-2012, 01:54   #20004
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so you're mad because a teenage pato wasn't consistent?
Not mad but he's 23 and still isn't consistent. Don't care if it's the injuries, I'm not his dad, I shouldn't feel sorry for him. Fuck him, the team's more important.

Point is if he was going to be that superstar with us then he would have been by now. Look at Shaarawy. Sheva, Weah, Bierhoff, etc. They all delivered.

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Yes, he has scored 15 in his 2008 season, but he has scored 12 as a RW and 14 for the scudetto and saved us when Ibra was in shit form. Whats more important is that he was crucial against the likes of Barca, Real and Inter, he is special, he is a big game player, he is one you can count on when you need something like a winning goal in a Cl final. This is not enough to deserve our trust ? He was one of our best strikers for seasons while hardly being out of his teen years, unbelievable that this is worth something.
All of that is cute and all, but that's EXACTLY my point. He's shown flashes. FLASHES. When did he ever have a stretch like Shaarawy who's fucking 20 is having?

As a RW he scored 12 but was injured for like 2 months. Then the scudetto season Ibra + Robinho played way more games due to Pato's injuries and incompatibility with Ibra, yet he did well in the finish. Last season he scored vs Barca then that's it.

No one is denying his quality and his potential. But when is his time ever going to run out? He's been here for 5 years. FIVE.
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Old 23-11-2012, 01:55   #20005
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I'm half way here.
Don't think he should be kicked out neither given the Milanello keys.

I'm actually in agreement with Allegri.
He got three players for a position and no one did enough to lock the spot. So he is using them cause of tactical reasons... They're different players and can be useful in different schemes.

That's enough playing time for Pato to recover his form. It still take a month or two.
I think Pato is not one of the players who responds to that kind of management. Its probably for the same reason that he isnt a 'leader' or 'responsible' in people's perceptions. Hes just that kind of character, you won't get the best of him mentally with stick and carrot tactics, as you wont get the best physically with scraps. He needs continuity.


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Originally Posted by crazy4milan View Post
Seriously tell me what has Pato done this season to demand more playing time?
and she keeps going about this season.






ok lets try a different approach.

If he doesnt get the necessary time now, he will do nothing in the rest of the season. Comprende?


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Old 23-11-2012, 01:58   #20006
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Originally Posted by Fiero View Post
Not mad but he's 23 and still isn't consistent. Don't care if it's the injuries, I'm not his dad, I shouldn't feel sorry for him. Fuck him, the team's more important.

Point is if he was going to be that superstar with us then he would have been by now. Look at Shaarawy. Sheva, Weah, Bierhoff, etc. They all delivered.
and how will he be a superstar with injuries? I think you should go to sleep.

23 and still inconsistent? how will he be consistent when he was injured for the past year and isn't playing much now?

should he be consistent on the bench or the medic room?

you asked why the management are taking a gamble on him? because they believe he's worth it. They gave fucking flamini a chance and they should bail on pato?


I'm only answering you because I actually read your posts unlike most of the other garbage which I ignore, but I'm not going to continue this ridiculous debate, especially when you clearly hate the guy.
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Old 23-11-2012, 01:58   #20007
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I'd expect some patience from a guy who wrote this article and is questioning when was the last time pato showed something since 2008
That blog was written a year and a half ago... aaaaaand Pato hasn't made a step forward since then.

Yeah he did great in Chievo's game, Napoli, the derby, then scored vs Fiorentina and... wait for it... got injured. We actually had to play Cassano - Robinho upfront vs Brescia.

Point is of course he played a hand in the scudetto but he also was inconsistent, injured a lot, etc.

Never said he hasn't done anything since 2008, just said he's being given superstar treatment and he's never showed REAL PROOF of becoming that superstar since 2008/2009.
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Old 23-11-2012, 01:59   #20008
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c4m ripping forward apart

forward we neeeeeed a comeback.

i've hit neutral now.
I don't think I'm ripping anyone apart. It's pretty clear we've got different POVs and I doubt they'll change for now, in the future, one never knows.


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Old 23-11-2012, 02:00   #20009
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and how will he be a superstar with injuries? I think you should go to sleep.

23 and still inconsistent? how will he be consistent when he was injured for the past year and isn't playing much now?

should he be consistent on the bench or the medic room?

you asked why the management are taking a gamble on him? because they believe he's worth it. They gave fucking flamini a chance and they should bail on pato?
You're giving the excuse. I don't care about the excuse. I don't care WHY he hasn't fulfilled his potential yet. That's not my problem.

My problem is that he hasn't fulfilled it yet, regardless of all the excuses in the world. So how much time is enough time? How many excuses are enough excuses?

By this route he'll just end up like Recoba or something.

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I'm only answering you because I actually read your posts unlike most of the other garbage which I ignore, but I'm not going to continue this ridiculous debate, especially when you clearly hate the guy.
-e- I don't hate him at all. I actually was so against selling him last Jan. But you reach a point where enough is enough... for me that was the Arsenal game.

Maybe one day you'll lose patience too, or one day he'll fulfill his potential
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Old 23-11-2012, 02:02   #20010
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Originally Posted by Fiero View Post
You're giving the excuse. I don't care about the excuse. I don't care WHY he hasn't fulfilled his potential yet. That's not my problem.

My problem is that he hasn't fulfilled it yet, regardless of all the excuses in the world. So how much time is enough time? How many excuses are enough excuses?

By this route he'll just end up like Recoba or something.
how can you fulfill your potential when you have injury problems?

you're trolling right? I really hope you are, because this is galactic class level of stupidity if you're serious

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-e- I don't hate him at all. I actually was so against selling him last Jan. But you reach a point where enough is enough... for me that was the Arsenal game.

Maybe one day you'll lose patience too, or one day he'll fulfill his potential
I'm not silly enough to ignore 3 years of injury problems and ask why hasn't he fulfilled his potential.


and saying "fuck him, don't give a fuck about his injuries" is hating.

Last edited by Sage; 23-11-2012 at 02:07.
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Old 23-11-2012, 02:04   #20011
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and she keeps going about this season.






ok lets try a different approach.

If he doesnt get the necessary time now, he will do nothing in the rest of the season. Comprende?
Eh....what season should we speak of? Last season? Season before that? 2009? oohhh ok 2008 I see. Good.

He's getting playing time, decent playing time for someone who just came back from an injury in fact with little trainning sessions he got to play a lot in his first game vs Lazio. He's got trainning sessions (you know that thing that grants you playing time) to regain form and demand playing time based on his performances in waiiiiiit for it...TRAINING SESSIONS. And of course taking advantage of those minutes he gets to play and playing them at his fullest.


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Last edited by crazy4milan; 23-11-2012 at 02:07.
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Old 23-11-2012, 02:08   #20012
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how can you fulfill your potential when you have injury problems?

you're trolling right? I really hope you are, because this is galactic class level of stupidity if you're serious
I'm not trolling but I think we're having communication problems. You're explaining why he hasn't fulfilled his potential, but that doesn't concern me because I'm not related to him, I don't personally care about him unless he's doing great for Milan or already did something legendary.

Of course there are explanations for him not fulfilling his potential, but the problem isn't in the reasons. The problem is that these things happened and he hasn't been as successful as we would have hoped, why the fuck do people still believe in him that much?

If he keeps on getting injured should we still keep him? How many chances are enough chances? This is were we disagree. I already gave up on him, you and Milan (or Berlusconi) haven't. Hopefully he still comes good for the sake of Milan
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Old 23-11-2012, 02:11   #20013
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I'm not silly enough to ignore 3 years of injury problems and ask why hasn't he fulfilled his potential.
I never asked why. Why doesn't concern me, that's his problem not mine.

Think I said it clearly:

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I don't care WHY he hasn't fulfilled his potential yet. That's not my problem.
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Originally Posted by Sage View Post
and saying "fuck him, don't give a fuck about his injuries" is hating.
Not hating, just not siding with him either. Why would I feel sorry for someone who's already a millionare/got to live his dream and play with his idol/banged the hottest chicks etc? That's more than most people get in their lifetime. He doesn't deserve my sympathy
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Old 23-11-2012, 02:12   #20014
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Eh....what season should we speak of? Last season? Season before that? 2009? oohhh ok 2008 I see. Good.

He's getting playing time, decent playing time for someone who just came back from an injury in fact with little trainning sessions he got to play a lot in his first game vs Lazio. He's got trainning sessions (you know that thing that grants you playing time) to regain form and demand playing time based on his performances in waiiiiiit for it...TRAINING SESSIONS. And of course taking advantage of those minutes he gets to play and playing them at his fullest.
If you actually played the sport, you would know that training sessions are not the place where performance is judged. Its where you keep fit, learn tactical schemes and keep your technique sharp. its basically a simulation. The real thing is competitive games, where you dont play against your mates, where there are fans, where you need to win. Right now Pato plays in competitive games like in training, because he still isnt used to competitive games.

I should expect the answer 'but noo, he hasnt performed on the pitch THIS SEASON'. Were talking about Pato's ability, not in which season he had most consistency. I dont even know in which season he had most consistency, its probably when he had the least injuries.

more injuries----->less playing time--------->inconsistency

Less injuries---->more playing time---------->consistency


except for Allegri, he probably also doesnt care about ability.


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Old 23-11-2012, 02:15   #20015
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All of that is cute and all, but that's EXACTLY my point. He's shown flashes. FLASHES. When did he ever have a stretch like Shaarawy who's fucking 20 is having?

As a RW he scored 12 but was injured for like 2 months. Then the scudetto season Ibra + Robinho played way more games due to Pato's injuries and incompatibility with Ibra, yet he did well in the finish. Last season he scored vs Barca then that's it.

No one is denying his quality and his potential. But when is his time ever going to run out? He's been here for 5 years. FIVE.
And where is the problem? That aren´t flashes, when he was fit, he was important most of the time.
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Old 23-11-2012, 02:16   #20016
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berlusconi has his back, that's all that matters now, if he will move in january so be it, nothing anyone can do about it.

they'll probably get that nut case balotelli to replace him or someone as bad or worse than putzini.

I'm not going to continue this boring debate anymore, people hate him and others support him..this thread has become very troublesome.
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Old 23-11-2012, 02:16   #20017
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And where is the problem? That aren´t flashes, when he was fit, he was important most of the time.
Aaaaand what if he never becomes fit for a constant period of time?
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Old 23-11-2012, 02:20   #20018
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you people need to chill this spoiled asshole is not worth your time and energy.
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Old 23-11-2012, 02:20   #20019
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Dude I don't care if it's not his fault but fuck him why keep gambling on a guy with such injury problems? Is he worth it? What has he shown to deserve all that patience?
So, you claim you don't hate him. Just be real man, admit it.


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Why is he getting all these privileges? And from the fans too... based on what really? If he was a great talent with huge potential in 2007, well now it's 2012 and he's fucking lost. Should just move on.
what privileges? I am actually curios about this one?
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Old 23-11-2012, 02:22   #20020
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Aaaaand what if he never becomes fit for a constant period of time?
We will play shit Pazzini, Prince or Tinkerbell Bojan and then hope to turn around games in the second half.

Bring me a true replacement or stop bitching - the other options are crap.
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