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Old 22-04-2021, 06:00   #721
Nalim
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Originally Posted by Curupira View Post
yet you see no problem with Norwich getting silly tv deal money just for being a part of the PL and being able to inflate the market for those trying to get back.

hypocrite
They get that money because they finish 1st in their league while with the SL Milan could finish 20th for all they care and still make a boatload. Do you not see the difference? Also Milan already outspend 17 of 20 teams in Italy, on paper it shouldn?t be hard to qualify for CL consecutively and drastically improve the revenue of the club.
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Old 22-04-2021, 12:05   #722
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They get that money because they finish 1st in their league while with the SL Milan could finish 20th for all they care and still make a boatload. Do you not see the difference? Also Milan already outspend 17 of 20 teams in Italy, on paper it shouldn?t be hard to qualify for CL consecutively and drastically improve the revenue of the club.
1st in English championship makes more than CL winner. Do you not see the difference?

On paper it shouldn?t be hard for P$G and Citeh to win CL since they outspend most other teams in Europe, why don?t they?

Outspend other club in Italy but vs PL?



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Old 22-04-2021, 12:24   #723
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1st in English championship makes more than CL winner. Do you not see the difference?

On paper it shouldn?t be hard for P$G and Citeh to win CL since they outspend most other teams in Europe, why don?t they?

Outspend other club in Italy but vs PL?

The difference is that the EPL is a fair competition where teams earn their place in the hierarchy based on performances on the pitch. This feeling of entitlement bases on the accomplishments of players who haven't played professionally for longer than a decade is embarrassing to say the least.
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Old 22-04-2021, 12:57   #724
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The difference is that the EPL is a fair competition where teams earn their place in the hierarchy based on performances on the pitch. This feeling of entitlement bases on the accomplishments of players who haven't played professionally for longer than a decade is embarrassing to say the least.
Is it fair competition for everyone else? Stop emphasizing that they got promoted to PL. In terms of performance on the pitch, does getting promoted to EPL warrant more merit sportingly than winning CL?

They are placed in that league because PL people were the earliest to come out and want to ?Americanize? the game. What?s their feeling of accomplishment there? In Kalac?s own words ?they did a good job marketing?

In other words, Norwich city is allowed to get ?free money? (another one of Kalac?s zingers) because their leagur had great marketing. But when other clubs take advantage of their global fan base and want to form a Super league to catch up with the revenues ?whoa whoa whoa, football is for everyone?

So when newly promoted PL sides can spend about the same as us, and can offer same if not better salary, we are supposed to just run our business better right? And again, in Mr. hypocrite Kalac’s own words that such a league would be pointless Bc poorer sides at best have one year of good run.

Look, I like the idea of SL, but I find that there were lots of holes in execution and planning that can be improved. But these so called arguments against ?Americanization?, ?financial fairness?, ?football not for everyone? are all crocks of shit.

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Old 22-04-2021, 15:10   #725
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Is it fair competition for everyone else? Stop emphasizing that they got promoted to PL. In terms of performance on the pitch, does getting promoted to EPL warrant more merit sportingly than winning CL?

They are placed in that league because PL people were the earliest to come out and want to ?Americanize? the game. What?s their feeling of accomplishment there? In Kalac?s own words ?they did a good job marketing?

In other words, Norwich city is allowed to get ?free money? (another one of Kalac?s zingers) because their leagur had great marketing. But when other clubs take advantage of their global fan base and want to form a Super league to catch up with the revenues ?whoa whoa whoa, football is for everyone?

So when newly promoted PL sides can spend about the same as us, and can offer same if not better salary, we are supposed to just run our business better right? And again, in Mr. hypocrite Kalac?s own words that such a league would be pointless Bc poorer sides at best have one year of good run.

Look, I like the idea of SL, but I find that there were lots of holes in execution and planning that can be improved. But these so called arguments against ?Americanization?, ?financial fairness?, ?football not for everyone? are all crocks of shit.

:
In what way did the EPL Americanize the game? By televising more games with higher production value? By including the top 19 sides from the previous season's First Division, plus the top two and play-off winners from the Second Division in their league structure?

The founding clubs of EPL knew that there was a chance they?d one day get relegated from the division. I?d bet they didn?t even consider a closed league. Because relegation is a part of football across all leagues I can think of but the MLS.

I hate capitalism and the tight grip it keeps on football today but when the EPL dawned it was dealt the same (if not worse) cards than Serie A and simply played their hand much better.
I for one much prefer the capitalism of European football to the dictatorship of the Super League.

I wish that the money from EPL could be distributed more fairly across the European leagues, but the SL wouldn't warrant a solution to this problem only ensure more money to the few, most of them being EPL clubs.
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Old 22-04-2021, 15:36   #726
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In what way did the EPL Americanize the game? By televising more games with higher production value? By including the top 19 sides from the previous season's First Division, plus the top two and play-off winners from the Second Division in their league structure?

The founding clubs of EPL knew that there was a chance they?d one day get relegated from the division. I?d bet they didn?t even consider a closed league. Because relegation is a part of football across all leagues I can think of but the MLS.
The concept of brand value and marketing, what everyone seems to be against when it comes to the Super League. The whole point was to grow Premier League as a brand and use that to gain more broadcasting and commercial revenue. Norwich city gets paid 97m from their TV deal because they are part of the PL brand, not because they are outputting some amazing football on the pitch that deserves to be paid 97m.

I can respectfully disagree with your point about preference, but I understand its your preference.

I can respect your point about relegation. But having such a system in place would not address the issue which I outlined earlier. Teams who are behind will just fall further behind. We would be out of the SL probably within 2-3 seasons.

The whole point of this is to maintain and grow the brand value whereas participating in CL you are risking your brand value to help grow smaller teams' while UEFA rakes in a big cut, while enforcing FFP. So yea, while relegation is wonderful, we are already not competing at a level playing field and financially we are ALREADY not compensating teams based on their performance.

"well, just run your club better" - that's such a naive simplistic view. When the entire transfer market and player salaries are inflated, EPL teams can afford to make mistakes like spending 40m on Andy Carroll whereas teams like AC Milan would suffer a lot worse consequences.

So why is it a big deal that teams (outside of EPL) with brand values want to do it too?

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I hate capitalism and the tight grip it keeps on football today but when the EPL dawned it was dealt the same (if not worse) cards than Serie A and simply played their hand much better.
I for one much prefer the capitalism of European football to the dictatorship of the Super League.
You are literally contradicting yourself. The game has had its tight grip on the game for years now. So how, in good faith, can you even argue the EPL was "dealt the same hand"?

So no, while SL isn't clearly laid out, I don't think of it as dictatorship. If anything UEFA behaves like a dictator with threats such as "if you play in such league, you can't participate in national tournaments". I see both as capitalism, just benefiting different people.

We can agree to disagree.

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I wish that the money from EPL could be distributed more fairly across the European leagues, but the SL wouldn't warrant a solution to this problem only ensure more money to the few, most of them being EPL clubs.
That's my problem with the Super League as is as well, I fully agree with you here. The concept is good but teams like Chelsea and Citeh certainly don't seem to be on the same boat as the other teams. So yea, I stated that while I agree with Super League in principle, I have quite a few opinions about the execution.


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Old 22-04-2021, 16:46   #727
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The SL was a fine idea without the fixed aspect. As deplorable as UEFA and FIFA are, you still have to earn your way into their tournaments. If they had launched the league with 20 initial teams and a merit based system going forward, the backlash would probably have been halved.

Europeans aren’t going to accept an American style professional league. Slave labor, inequality, and corruption are fine and racism isn’t much of a bother, but you start imitating the Yanks and thems are fighting words.
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Old 22-04-2021, 17:02   #728
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The SL was a fine idea without the fixed aspect. As deplorable as UEFA and FIFA are, you still have to earn your way into their tournaments. If they had launched the league with 20 initial teams and a merit based system going forward, the backlash would probably have been halved
This is exactly it.

I'd be sad about the ludicrous money and potential for all the games to played in Shanghai and Dubai, but no team should be given anything based on past achievements.

I'm done discussing the merits of Norwich, and I agree the PL money is a problem but simply giving a select few teams even more money doesn't help anything, it just moves it elsewhere and makes things even harder for the unlucky majority at a domestic level. Right now lower prem teams can outspend most of Europe but domestically this doesn't matter its a level playing ground. The super league would have created a gigantic disparity between every leagues chosen clubs and the rest. Nobody can support that, surely?

What really needs to be done is some kind of wage cap, and some kind of regulation on the ludicrous fees agents demand.

Perez isn't some football saviour, he's a vulture who is annoyed that he can't bully his way through world football with little strategy other than 'I sign the biggest players' and this was his way of trying to bring that back to Madrid.
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Old 22-04-2021, 17:22   #729
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Wage cap wont work... clubs will pay more under the table.

Just like prohibition didn’t work... neither will this.


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Old 22-04-2021, 17:35   #730
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I'm done discussing the merits of Norwich, and I agree the PL money is a problem but simply giving a select few teams even more money doesn't help anything, it just moves it elsewhere and makes things even harder for the unlucky majority at a domestic level. Right now lower prem teams can outspend most of Europe but domestically this doesn't matter its a level playing ground.
YES, EPL is in a bubble by itself, they don't affect anyone else. They totally don't affect the market price, which is the same price and contract demands Spanish and Italian clubs now have to meet.


You think people give a shit about whether its fair for Norwich or not domestically? Not sure if you are purposely missing the point YOU made YOURSELF.

If "lower prem teams can outspend most of Europe", then what about your power houses?
Is CL a level playing field or "does it have no point because you are just going to be crushed by a side that gets 5x more than you"


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Old 22-04-2021, 17:37   #731
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YES, EPL is in a bubble by itself, they don't affect anyone else. They totally don't affect the market price, which is the same price and contract demands Spanish and Italian clubs now have to meet.


You think people give a shit about whether its fair for Norwich or not domestically? Not sure if you are purposely missing the point YOU made YOURSELF.

If "lower prem teams can outspend most of Europe", then what about your power houses?
Is CL a level playing field or "does it have no point because you are just going to be crushed by a side that gets 5x more than you"
It's like talking to Trump man I'm out.

You just bold weird bits and go off on it. Bizarre
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Old 22-04-2021, 17:38   #732
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It's like talking to Trump man I'm out.

You just bold weird bits and go off on it. Bizarre
Not bizarre at all.

You are a massive hypocrite even your British mate tried to show you. But you are just too stupid to see it.


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Old 22-04-2021, 17:59   #733
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This debate is going longer (and has more merit) than SL itself

They didnt even show a proper outline of what it would be and what it intended to replace / supersede. A few talking heads going crazy killed the narrative and epl fans went crazy thats it.

These men that control so much money couldnt even get a 3 page presentation or a bullet point document to the press to put their view out????

No wonder the teams are just looking for the next golden goose and not sustainable
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Old 22-04-2021, 18:04   #734
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He does well in general but he?s far from the player people make him out to be. I?m still not certain he?s worth the asking price. As I said he does a lot of things right, but he tends to make rash and bad decisions in very dangerous areas.
Yeah I agree , a good player this is why spending 30 or 28 millions just for him, doesn't seem to be the right can, regarding the big problem we have in the front, lacking somme skillfull player to build the game, even Hakan has improved, we need better playmaker.

Concerning the defender, let's put move to an another young talent cheapee that him, like Lovato, or put our in Gabbia... Etc
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Old 22-04-2021, 18:05   #735
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This debate is going longer (and has more merit) than SL itself

They didnt even show a proper outline of what it would be and what it intended to replace / supersede. A few talking heads going crazy killed the narrative and epl fans went crazy thats it.

These men that control so much money couldnt even get a 3 page presentation or a bullet point document to the press to put their view out????

No wonder the teams are just looking for the next golden goose and not sustainable
At this point, I'm afraid whoever organizes something like this is probably going to want their cut.

I have no problem admitting that the Super League is flawed in some ways but to pretend that teams don't already benefit from the current system while keeping other teams down (like they claim Super League will start doing) is just hilarious.

And then say things like "yea maybe you shouldn't have mismanaged your club" or "nobody forced them to pay those ridiculous prices they can't sustain"


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Old 22-04-2021, 18:16   #736
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At this point, I'm afraid whoever organizes something like this is probably going to want their cut.

I have no problem admitting that the Super League is flawed in some ways but to pretend that teams don't already benefit from the current system while keeping other teams down (like they claim Super League will start doing) is just hilarious.

And then say things like "yea maybe you shouldn't have mismanaged your club" or "nobody forced them to pay those ridiculous prices they can't sustain"
Totally agree - persons against it are better off saying their traditionalist than the mental gymnastics and absolute ignorant (at best) to hypocritical arguments being put forward.
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Old 23-04-2021, 09:40   #737
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Old 23-04-2021, 18:29   #738
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He does well in general but he?s far from the player people make him out to be. I?m still not certain he?s worth the asking price. As I said he does a lot of things right, but he tends to make rash and bad decisions in very dangerous areas.
Exactly. He compliments both Kjaer and Romagnoli well but it remains to be said our "best defense" (which I don't agree is our best) has never kept a clean sheet. Tomori has 2 large weaknesses. Positional awareness and aerial marking. Speed is awesome, but far from everything for a defender. IMO though this is the modern way of defending, fast aggressive and positinally/tactically bad.. I hate it but it's where things are headed.. Just look at 60m Upemacano.. makes so so many mistakes game in game out but because he makes some great last ditch challenges and is strong people think he's good lol. Defense is dead my man and Tomori is just another run of the mill modern defender. does well enough, but not special. Probably still worth signing just not for 28m


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Old 23-04-2021, 18:32   #739
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It's like talking to Trump
Wow, you must be an important guy to talk with Trump, I didn't know you talked to him regularly.


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Old 23-04-2021, 18:33   #740
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Yeah I agree , a good player this is why spending 30 or 28 millions just for him, doesn't seem to be the right can, regarding the big problem we have in the front, lacking somme skillfull player to build the game, even Hakan has improved, we need better playmaker.

Concerning the defender, let's put move to an another young talent cheapee that him, like Lovato, or put our in Gabbia... Etc
Gabbia gets no love although Gabbia + Kjaer was our most successful pairing this season. Milan fans hate their own, it's a bad habit.


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